The Predator Problem

[Neill_Prater]

We all have an opinion, or opinions, regarding the decline in turkey numbers, and most of those include an overabundance of certain 4 legged critters patrolling the woods and fields every night.

Do you believe it's time for most, if not all, of those critters to be reclassified from furbearers with the associated seasons and harvest methods that status brings, to nuisance animals, allowing them to be killed by any humane method at any time?

The world, at least in Missouri, has changed a lot from the 1970's when I was in my 20's and did a little coon hunting for a couple of years. There were lots of houndsmen, guys who lived to hear their dogs tree a big boar coon. Just one of those big coons in prime condition could fetch a $25 or more payday, not much now, but that paid for a lot of the associated expenses of owning dogs in those days. You could pretty much hunt anywhere. Farmers considered them a nuisance and we're happy to have them killed. Coons were not endangered, but they sure weren't overpopulated either. Hardly ever saw one killed on the highway.

I can't even imagine trying to night hunt with dogs now. It would be a nightmare as the landscape has changed from family farms to thousands of small acreages with fancy homes and owners working in the city, or retired from there, or even worse, California. Turn a pack of hounds loose in that environment, and it's likely the 911 call center would be overrun with calls.

Few people trap. I get it, no, or little, monetary reward, lots of work and extremely time consuming. In other words, about the only thing killing nest robbers in my world anymore are Toyotas.

Just turkey hunting in the spring, I usually would have the opportunity to kill at least a coon or two, and I always see possums moving through the woods early in the morning.

What are your thoughts on the subject?

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[Ozarks Hillbilly]

I wish the MDC would use some of their unlimited funds to place a bounty on nest predators like some other state agencies have done. I  think $10 a tail would help to get a few more people out targeting them.

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[Old Timer]

Coyotes and fishers abound

[Sir-diealot]

I have a friend that is much older than I, he has a article from back in I believe the 40's or 50's from when he and his brothers got a coyote, that was big new back then as we did not have many here in NY now they are everywhere. We both hunt them (coyote and fox) with dogs and we trap but there is no money to be made anymore, a prime pelt from a coyote may bring $40.00 but that is few and far between and normally from coyotes closer to lakes Ontario and Erie.

One thing that has really hurt is Covid, we still have pelts from the 2019 season that have not been sold and that is because the two biggest buyers of coyote and fox are China and Russia and all the borders are closed so they can't have their people to come inspect the furs so they are not buying them. I have basically driven 2019 and 2020 for free on the trap line because if he is not getting paid I can't get paid and what really sucks for me is I have him hold all that money for me for The Northeast Call Makers Summit so I will be going with next to nothing this year unlike 2 years ago when I went with over $1000.00 in my pocket to spend on nothing but calls. (and Cannolis on the way home)

I am guessing it is the same thing with coon and other animals worth cash money when skinned.

[GobbleNut]

The simple solution to the predator problems is to just start killing more of those predators.  Unfortunately, it is much more complex than that in that we more and more live in a society that frowns on that sort of thing.  Again, the entire concept of killing certain animals so that other animals will increase in number so we will have more of those to hunt  is a philosophy that way too many folks in our urbanized society are not comfortable with. 

Wildlife departments that used to have to answer only to the hunting community are now having to answer to that other 97% of our population that are co-owners of our wildlife but do not hunt.  Those folks are not all that enamored with killing things to create more other targets.  That is the reality we have to face,...and as such, we need to start "thinking out of the box" some way or another. 

I certainly don't know the answer, but I think it involves somehow finding a way to increase nesting success and poult survival outside of killing large numbers of predatory species.  That kind of thing might still be tolerated in some parts of the country, but from what I have witnessed over the decades I have been around, those places are steadily dwindling.  Another solution is needed.     

[TurkeyReaper69]

I wish the MDC would use some of their unlimited funds to place a bounty on nest predators like some other state agencies have done. I  think $10 a tail would help to get a few more people out targeting them.

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South Dakota had a program like that this past year, I was up there this spring and was talking to a local when I noticed a plethora of Coon tails in the back of his pick up. He told me about the bounty and that everyone and their brother around town has been out trapping. If this bounty were enacted down south you wouldn't  find a road kill nest predator in the state of Mississippi with his tail still intact. Would be easy for folks to take advantage of, but would surely help the problem some. I don't know if most states have the funds to give out on a bounty such as this though. Either way, I have been trapping since I was knee high to a grass hopper. When I was in high school I was making upwards of 300 per week as my sole income Nov-Feb selling the coons to our African American brothers. I still sell coons but since moving across state lines I don't have nearly the number of clients I used too, I trap on my local national forest for the fun of it once I get tired of deer season and still have a few clients to sell to that I've found in my new town. It is a win-win-win situation. Less coons on the landscape, money in my pocket, and happy customers to feast on their Coon meat.
I've recently gotten into Coon hunting with dogs, man it's fun. Wish more folks would get into it. If only their was a popular YouTube Coon dog hunting group to inspire everyone lol.

[El Pavo Grande]

Most of what I have seen, or interpret, from state agencies and wildlife biologists are a hesitancy to promote an overly aggressive approach to trapping or predator control.  They no forgo that as a viable option and promote habitat instead.  I 100% agree that suitable habitat is critical for thriving turkey populations, but it just seems logical to me that predator population increases should change that equation.  Is 500 acres with 75 predators as detrimental as the same 500 acres with 200 predators?  While I agree with the predator / prey relationship within trapping or predator control is important and should be balanced among predator species so as not to be counter productive, it just doesn't make sense to me to not recognize the negatives of an over abundance.  I believe some of that is due to political correctness.  This is one reason I think bounties are rare.  Shouldn't the management thought process towards predators change when out of balance? 

Considering hawks and snakes, I think the mindset has changed.   Right or wrong, the truth is that in the past many farmers and country folks, such as those raising chickens, etc., shot every one they saw.  That's doesn't seem to be as common as before.   

Arkansas has expanded opportunities to trap and kill predators, so it's up to concerned hunters at this point.  I think more are buying into the need for it, so hopefully more effort is put into it.  I wish the state would prohibit baiting with corn, although I don't expect that with it being such big $$$ now. 

[bcuda]

I agree with Ozarks Hillbilly's post:


I wish the MDC would use some of their unlimited funds to place a bounty on nest predators like some other state agencies have done. I  think $10 a tail would help to get a few more people out targeting them.

[the Ward]

Right on point Neil, that is a pretty accurate description of a lot of places now. I don't want a wholesale slaughter of predators, but their numbers have to be reduced if we want to continue to have decent game populations. Predators are good for the ecosystem, in a proper ratio, but i think by personal observation, there are far too many now as opposed to 5,10, 15 years ago.We either have game for predators, or hunters, and last i checked, nest robbers don't buy hunting licenses or pay taxes. Just my 2 cents.

[Turkeyman]

Not only four-legged predators but winged predators as well. Years ago a now retired DEC friend...who was a turkey hunter as well...said if it perches it should be shot! Perhaps tongue in cheek but he had a point nonetheless.

[arkrem870]

Dog proof traps around corn feeders are super effective. I trap a lot of coons off the areas I hunt. I've seen more turkeys as a result

For arkansas I'd love to see a required turkey permit of maybe $20. Throw 40,000 turkey hunters at $20 = 80,000 $10 bounties.  You could run dog proofs and catch 6-8 coons a day pretty easy.  Sure some people would abuse the system but I think it would be worth a try over a 5 year period to see if a difference is made. That's enough money to get people out trapping in my opinion. Especially in rural areas

[Greg Massey]

As the older generations of us disappear, you will see less and less people trapping or predator hunting. I guess you could call it the nature of the beast .. But i will somewhat agree nature has a way of taking care of itself to extent.

[tracker vi]

My feeling is if you want to control predators you going have to do it yourself . Very few states are going to start a bounty program , too much squalling from the public .

[Greg Massey]

My feeling is if you want to control predators you going have to do it yourself . Very few states are going to start a bounty program , too much squalling from the public .

So agree with you, probably best to take care of it and not publicize it ..

[owlhoot]

As the older generations of us disappear, you will see less and less people trapping or predator hunting. I guess you could call it the nature of the beast .. But i will somewhat agree nature has a way of taking care of itself to extent.

Put it all over social media and the tube and it will take off.