Ohio joins in, proposed bag limit reduction. NR hunters on rise pre-COVID.

[eggshell]

The comment period on rule changes is now open. All you Ohio Guys comment and let them know how you feel. For or against

https://ohiodnr.gov/wps/portal/gov/odnr/rules-and-regulations/rule-changes/proposed-rule-changes/wildlife-proposed-rules

I am against the bag limit reduction because it will not make any difference. If you explore the site on rule changes you will see only 6800+/- second tags were sold last year. As I already posted there was data that showed about 40% of those filled their second tag. Actually I was in error earlier as I used the total tags sold number for my 40% calculation. So that means even less gobblers will be saved. I am guessing it might me 1500-2000 more gobblers will survive the 2022 spring season. Scatter this over an entire state and this is a ludicrous idea that it will have any impact on declining flocks. I actually think our flock is stable. Again, it's just social pandering and it may well be as someone said...the "chamberlain effect". I have already heard several die hard turkey guys say they are headed out of state next spring soon as they fill their one tag. Like I said get ready for a flood of buckeyes surrounding states.

[GobbleNut]

Suffice it to say there are LOTS of steps that can be taken in terms of reducing harvest (if that is the goal) between just jumping from a two-bird statewide limit to a one-bird limit.  We have discussed such options before here in other threads.  In addition, there are states that already have implemented systems that include zones, drawings, maximum permit numbers, etc. (Wisconsin comes to mind) that generally achieve the desired harvest goals but still allow additional hunting opportunity for those that want it. 

It would be easy enough for Ohio to just look at the more progressive hunting strategies used by other states (again, WI as an example) and follow suit.  When all is said and done, it just takes a little ingenuity on the part of a state's DNR/game managers, as well as the desire to seek better alternatives on behalf of sportsmen.  All too often, those in charge of making changes just don't want to make the effort and are content just to take the easy way out for themselves. 

Although I sometimes agree there is a time and place for the "one-bird-limit" mentality, it appears to me that in the case of Ohio's situation, it is going to the extreme when other, more viable and acceptable options are available and would very likely be just as affective in achieving the desired goals.

[eggshell]

Your so right Gobblenut. What gets me is they still want to maintain a 30 day season, allow all day hunting for 3 of those weeks, still have a fall season (although I love my fall hunt) and seem to ignore that our basic hen to poult counts are pretty stable and an over all consistent gobbler kill. Sure numbers dropped some from the saturation years, but hey these are supposed to be smart people they should have expected that. I am more embarrassed of the things they do every year. As a former manager in Ohio Division of Wildlife, I can say I think the good ole boys who built this population are probably shaking their heads as well or rolling in their graves.
  There's a new breed managing our wildlife today and I'll refrain from saying what I think of them. For one thing they worry too much about political correctness. ARRGGGG   

[GobbleNut]

For you Ohio fellers that want to head this off, here's what I would do (based on the tact that we took here in New Mexico forty years ago). 

Although I have tended to bad-mouth the direction NWTF has taken over the last couple of decades, one positive still in place is that it pulls together turkey hunters into a force of political clout.  You should contact the state NWTF organization and put together a lobbying effort to offer alternatives to the straight one-bird limit (that is, assuming that the NWTF chapter in Ohio agrees that the proposed changes are not warranted). 

The collective voice of a large group of sportsmen all presenting the same views is much more powerful than random, scattered folks all making different recommendations,...often which contradict each other. 

It works.  Back in the early 1980's, we did this in New Mexico to get our Game Department to go from a one-bird spring limit to a two-bird limit.  You want to head this off?  Get organized and speak with one voice coming from a large and organized group of turkey hunters.  Base your argument on science and biology (which it sounds like are in your favor),...and come up with rational alternatives to the proposal that would logically reduce harvest (and hunting pressure if that is perceived to be a problem) but still provide the desired level of hunting opportunity. 

Do this in a constructive, cooperative, and non-antagonistic manner and you may be surprised that your Game Commission is willing to listen to you and modify their proposal.   

[the Ward]

Thanks for posting the link Eggshell. I am not sold on the idea of a reduction in spring bag limits. I agree with you that it may be a knee jerk reaction from the Odnr to show that they are doing something about real or perceived drop in turkey population numbers. I think the problem in numbers may be more localized than statewide. I know in my area the population numbers are down from my own personal observation. I really think a multi-prong approach would help numbers. First, stop allowing hens to be taken, at least for awhile, and eliminate fall season, also temporarily. If they don't eliminate fall, then make it illegal to have both turkey and deer tags when hunting over bait. There is 0 doubt in my mind turkeys are taken in fall over bait piles as targets of opportunity while deer hunting. Then focus on habitat for nesting, and a reduction in nest robbers and predators. One of the things that hurt in the overall predator reduction theme is the requirement of a fur bearer permit. How many hunters are going to purchase one just to go shoot a few coon? Especially after they raised the license prices substancially across the board? It is actually cheaper for me to hunt non resident in Pa than in my home state, with much more access to productive public land. But that is a different topic for a different day.

[tracker vi]

The limit reduction in Ohio is about one thing , spreading the kill around to different folks . We can't have some ol timer{who hasn't bought a new call decoy gun or camo in 20 yrs} killing 2 birds when the facebook guy who buys a all new kit can't even kill one . Dropping a week off the season , no all day hunting and no shooting hens in the fall .

[eggshell]

Your right again Gobblenut and I have been a part of those discussions. In the old days we often talked new regulations over with sportsmen's groups and come to a consensus. I fear that they are never going to let that happen, they seem intent on ramming this through before anyone can  stop  it. I truly don't understand why or what is driving this agenda. I hope the NWTF isn't already behind this, they do seem to get their way a lot. If they would share the science it would help a lot.

I been on the inside of this and was recommending a change in a fish management plan on a specialized species. We held open meetings and shared the data with the anglers clubs involved and came to a mutual agreement that the change was good for the species. Once they heard the reasoning and saw the data and learned we actually had a plan, the involved groups voted to proceed and even started a fund raiser to help with the new plan. In general hunters and fishermen want what's best for wildlife, but  they don't like things shoved down their throat or being snookered. I often spoke at banquets and mingled at tournaments and so forth. I was called names at times, but generally my presence and participation was appreciated. I always told my crews, share as much info as you can legally share...we do not keep secrets. My administrators supported this, but these days it seems they want to keep us blind.

[Bolandstrutters]

Do these states not realize about 40% of adult gobblers die every year of natural causes?

Just out of curiosity where did you get this information? What exactly are considered natural causes?

https://www.outdoornews.com/2021/02/02/declining-turkey-populations-prompt-hunting-changes-in-pennsylvania/

[eggshell]

Hey at least someone had actual data to back up their plan, Kudos to Pa.

[owlhoot]

Do these states not realize about 40% of adult gobblers die every year of natural causes?

Just out of curiosity where did you get this information? What exactly are considered natural causes?

https://www.outdoornews.com/2021/02/02/declining-turkey-populations-prompt-hunting-changes-in-pennsylvania/

That is good stuff. Thanks for posting it.
Is a shame though that the Thanksgiving time is being cut out some. Some families surely made a tradition out of hunting during that time.

[tracker vi]

Did ODNR get a copy of this ?

[RutnNStrutn]

At least Ohio didn't discriminate against NR's like SC did. In SC's last harvest change, they reduced NR's to 2 birds, while allowing the vastly higher number of resident hunters to still take 3 birds each spring. Not only that, but NR's have to pay $100 for 2 turkey tags. Obviously the impetus behind these changes were not the turkey population, but instead screwing NR's and making more $$$ off of them.
So kudos to Ohio. And yes, I agree that Ohio fall hen harvests should end until such time as the population recovers. I have hunted Ohio for spring and fall turkeys, and have seen the majority of fall harvests were hens. That makes no sense when you are facing a declining population.

Sent from deep in the woods where the critters roam.

[eggshell]

Here's the latest, Ohio is recommending reducing the fall season by 3 weeks. This is a positive move in my mind and should have been done first. It takes a lot incidental bow kills by deer hunters out of the picture. As a fall hunter I agree with this move more so than the spring tag reduction.

[mspaci]

good hunters will still birds, others, not so much. Others hunt 1-2 days & cry when they arent succesful.

[sasquatch1]

I would rather only be able to hunt them with stick and string than to be limited on (OPPORTUNITY).

One day people will wake up and realize all their easy buttons are backfiring at the expense of opportunities.


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