Ohio joins in, proposed bag limit reduction. NR hunters on rise pre-COVID.

[deerhunt1988]

https://www.theoutdoorwire.com/releases/9e020f9a-8547-4b18-a36c-1a1c67b8e9ce?fbclid=IwAR234_e9bAlQxIHSMey4xF_QU2ATg2tCJpIIetUPP_nIjDpcAO6_F-PXQiY

Division of Wildlife Proposes Reduced Limit for 2022 Spring Wild Turkey Hunting Season


COLUMBUS, Ohio – In response to declining wild turkey populations during the past few years, the Ohio Department of Natural Resources (ODNR) Division of Wildlife proposed reducing the 2022 spring wild turkey season limit from two to one bearded turkey. The proposal was made by Division of Wildlife staff to the Ohio Wildlife Council at its regularly scheduled meeting on Wednesday, Aug. 4.

If approved by the Ohio Wildlife Council, all hunters will be limited to one bearded (male) wild turkey during the spring 2022 hunting season. This proposal includes the statewide spring wild turkey hunting season and the youth spring hunting season.

Wild turkey populations have declined in much of Ohio following several years of below average reproductive success. Preliminary wild turkey reports submitted to Division of Wildlife biologists during the summer of 2021 show some improvement in young turkey (poult) numbers. However, the complete information on which harvest management decisions are based will not be available until September. The proposed revision to the 2022 spring wild turkey season limit would remain in place until trends in reproductive success improve.

No changes were proposed to the 2022 spring wild turkey hunting season dates, zones (south and northeast), hours, or methods of take. Further, no changes were proposed to Ohio's fall 2021 wild turkey hunting season.

The Division of Wildlife began an extensive program in the 1950s to reintroduce wild turkeys to the Buckeye State. Ohio's first modern day wild turkey season opened in 1966 in nine counties, and hunters checked 12 birds. The total number of harvested turkeys topped 1,000 for the first time in 1984. The spring season limit has been two bearded wild turkeys since 1993. Spring turkey hunting was opened statewide in 2000. The record Ohio wild turkey harvest was in 2001, when hunters checked 26,156 birds. The 2021 spring harvest was 14,541 birds.

Comments about the proposed wild turkey season limit change will be accepted at wildohio.gov.

Now for the data:


Interestingly enough, the trend line for harvest is pretty much flat. The spike in 2017-18 is thanks to a bumper hatch in the previous years primarily attributed to the periodical cicada.





In the following you can see your typical peaks and valleys of turkey population fluctuations that occur after the reintroduction boom. However now days the oscillations across many states do have lower peaks.





Looks like Ohio could save just as many adult gobblers for the next spring by eliminating jake harvest rather than reducing the bag limit.




And lastly but not least, here you can see turkey hunters hadn't been declining in recent years and non-resident hunters were on the rise way before COVID. Non-rez rose 20% between 2016-2019. Can't wait to see what kind of numbers 2021 brought!

One thing that is a bit alarming is the reduction in youth permits pre-COVID.

[bossgobbler]

I live in Ohio and I'm fine with a decrease in bag limit. I don't think it's going to change things much for the better but I believe anything and everything will help some. Our predator numbers are extremely high nowadays. I do everything I can to help the wild turkey population.

In my opinion a few more things need to be in place for us to see a nice rebound.

Our bobcat numbers are getting high. We have no season for bobcats  in Ohio. We better get one started very soon or we will be behind the curve on that one. I read something the other day that Ohio DNR doesn't have any research to suggest that bobcats have any impact on turkey populations. Am I wrong to assume that they absolutely do have some negative impact? Our bobcat numbers have increased very fast as our turkey numbers have decreased very fast.

My next concern is that, if Ohio DNR feels a need to lower bag limits on spring gobblers then we need to stop allowing a hen to be shot! I still cannot figure out why hens are allowed to be shot in fall or spring. If your population is struggling then DO NOT SHOOT HENS!!

We need to be allowed to coon trap more than just a limited time in the winter. Our coons are out of control. I've trapped over 300 coons and possums in 4 years in one single location.  We should be allowed to trap them all year or at least expand the season much longer than it currently is.

Always can use more habitat focus. Why not create better habitat every chance we get?!

Our hawk population is high. I've seen them wipe out an amazing amount of poults. A couple years ago we had 42 poults hatch successfully. We ended up with 7 by late July. Cooper's Hawks went crazy and picked them off one by one. I wish we could control the hawk population somehow. There's just too many of them.

I hope everyone can band together and bring the turkey back to the fun populations of the early 2000s. I'd like my kids and their kids and their kids to enjoy what I have!

[cwedding]

States seem like they have all decided to just hit the easy button at the expense of turkey hunters. They just cut bag limits and reduce season dates as if those are the only options. If the goal is to reduce the overall harvest of turkeys, this will no doubt work, but is it the only option? Jake restrictions and bearded hen restriction for Ohio would have saved several thousand birds.

What if the same goal could be accomplished by restricting certain methods of turkey hunting? We have no doubt continued to innovate turkey hunting and that has made it easier than ever before to kill a turkey. In a heavy ag state like Ohio, a decoy restriction and reaping restriction would reduce harvest. Why are there no studies being done to see if a decoy ban would be just as effective as a bag limit reduction? Maybe I am too old school, but I would much rather have more days to hunt and a higher bag limit while having my methodology restricted. No decoys, no tss, no reaping.. whatever it may be. Heck I would rather have to go bow only but still get to go, then have days cut off my season and I suck with a bow. I would love to see some studies done on this topic to prove or disprove these thoughts. Can method restrictions be just as effective as bag limit restriction and cutting days from the season? Make turkey hunting hard again.

[TurkeyReaper69]

Sadly as the previous commenter mentioned states definitely are taking the easy way out. I'm sure if this reduction in bag limits passes the DNR in Ohio will pat themselves on the back in a few seasons and chalk this restriction up as a win for themselves. Although there is nothing warranting this brash change in regulation as Deerhunt1988's data points out. I chalk this up to the fear mongering chamberlain effect, I'm sure this proposal was stirred up due to public outcry of hunters who've not yet seen the highs and lows of population swings every few years.. and just freaked out due to numbers being down compared to their rookie season in 2018. As Cwedding pointed out, I'm sure the elimination of killing hens and Jakes in Ohio would compensate and contribute more to the Ohio turkey population rather than restricting residents and non residents alike from taking a 2nd Buckeye state spring gobbler.

[Bolandstrutters]

Do these states not realize about 40% of adult gobblers die every year of natural causes?  The hens are getting bred, the poults are not surviving.  Reducing the bag limit will have zero benefit in helping the poults survive.  What percent of Ohio hunters even fill both tags?  I bet its minuscule like in most states.   

[tracker vi]

Would'nt hurt to ban deer feeders either or should we call them coon feeders ?

[Tail Feathers]

Outlaw jake killing and save 24% right off the bat.

[the Ward]

I'm good with it, but i don't think it is going to help much. At least Odnr is acknowledging there is a problem. I think hens should be off limits, and cut the fall season temporarily. I wonder how many are taken by archery hunters over deer bait piles, too.Bait piles are vectors for disease, and it wouldn't hurt my feelings if the practice was stopped. I think the biggest problems though have been the nest robbers, and wet spring/early summer.As another poster pointed out, coon populations are out of control, as well as other predators. I know in my neck of Ohio, poult survival has been poor for several years. The overall population has been in a steady decline for awhile around here. Outlawing decoys and silly stuff like that isn't going to do anything to help the flock. Increasing poult survival rates will.  Predator reduction will have the biggest impact as what we can personally do, as we can't control the weather.That's my 2 cents worth anyways.

[AndyH]

What you guys that don't live and hunt in Ohio don't realize is the state has been sending out surveys for the last several years and this is obviously what the majority of the hunters wanted. In my opinion this will help but there also needs to be a focus on predator control and habitat improvement.


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[eggshell]

What you guys that don't live and hunt in Ohio don't realize is the state has been sending out surveys for the last several years and this is obviously what the majority of the hunters wanted. In my opinion this will help but there also needs to be a focus on predator control and habitat improvement.
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This is exactly right. This is 100% reactionary to what hunters asked for. I know I am about to agitate some people, but I feel like just telling the truth and let the chips fall. Hunters do a lot of whining and most of it is personal feelings that has zero basis in any factually verified data. Our Wildlife agencies listen way more than they get credit for. This is a prime example of  what uninformed whining gets you. As the graphs deer hunter posted shows, the linear curve on harvest is flat over the last two decades. Sure there are fluctuations, everything in nature fluctuates. I don't see a catastrophic fall in Ohio. Is there a trend, perhaps. I hear a lot of hunters expressing concern that there aren't birds like there was 20+ years ago and transpose that into there is a problem. I have said it for years, most of what we see is post stocking boom and saturation leveling off, and what we are left with is a sustainable carrying capacity. This regulation will not turn anything around, it is simply pandering to the mob. Just like so much of what we see in this country in the past few years.

Now, let's address the mountain instead of stomping on the mole hill and yelling, "we hear you and we're working on it, see we're acting on your concern". Like others have said, the root problem is not survival of male turkeys, it's poult survival and habitat. When I was in the Division of wildlife I heard the term recruitment used most often. All the regulations should be geared towards improving recruitment (new young entering the flock and surviving to adult hood). They use recruitment as the excuse for this, because it sounds good, but in reality they are giving the whining kids what they want. So when you start complaining on internet forums, replying with emotions on surveys, writing your agencies or telling biologist/ game wardens something needs done, be careful what you ask for, you just may get it.

I do agree there are some issues in the turkey flock, but I can't honestly see how this regulation changes the trend. About 40% of successful hunters fill the second tag. So approximately 5,500 -6,500 gobblers will survive. If you break that down sate wide it comes to ~.6 per square mile or around 20 per township or about one gobbler for every 1,000 acres. Do we really believe saving one gobbler for every thousand acres will save our flock? I know on my family's thousand acres we average about 15 mature gobblers a year as residents. We usually kill 4-5 a year. So can anyone tell me the difference in poult survival between 10 surviving gobblers and 11?

I am an avid fall hunter and I can see more argument against a fall season then this lunacy. I would desire to keep the fall season, but I would give it up if I believed it would stabilize the flock. I do doubt that it would, but it makes more sense then reducing the spring bag limit by one. At least you'd be saving some hens.

The elephant in the room is and always has been predators, weather and habitat. Addressing all those is far more difficult and time demanding. It will take a lot of work and money with more controversy. This is pandering, plain and simple. I really would like to see the science that shows saving a small percentage of the gobblers, in Ohio, will change anything. I realize in some areas of the country it may make a difference, but this is not one of them. Again look at the mean (lateral curve) on the harvest graph, it's flat! what is happening to our flock is not harvest related, period.

[quavers59]

 Similar actions could be taken in Northeastern States in coming years.

[GobbleNut]

What you guys that don't live and hunt in Ohio don't realize is the state has been sending out surveys for the last several years and this is obviously what the majority of the hunters wanted. In my opinion this will help but there also needs to be a focus on predator control and habitat improvement.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is exactly right. This is 100% reactionary to what hunters asked for. I know I am about to agitate some people, but I feel like just telling the truth and let the chips fall. Hunters do a lot of whining and most of it is personal feelings that has zero basis in any factually verified data. Our Wildlife agencies listen way more than they get credit for. This is a prime example of  what uninformed whining gets you. As the graphs deer hunter posted shows, the linear curve on harvest is flat over the last two decades. Sure there are fluctuations, everything in nature fluctuates. I don't see a catastrophic fall in Ohio. Is there a trend, perhaps. I hear a lot of hunters expressing concern that there aren't birds like there was 20+ years ago and transpose that into there is a problem. I have said it for years, most of what we see is post stocking boom and saturation leveling off, and what we are left with is a sustainable carrying capacity. This regulation will not turn anything around, it is simply pandering to the mob. Just like so much of what we see in this country in the past few years.

Now, let's address the mountain instead of stomping on the mole hill and yelling, "we hear you and we're working on it, see we're acting on your concern". Like others have said, the root problem is not survival of male turkeys, it's poult survival and habitat. When I was in the Division of wildlife I heard the term recruitment used most often. All the regulations should be geared towards improving recruitment (new young entering the flock and surviving to adult hood). They use recruitment as the excuse for this, because it sounds good, but in reality they are giving the whining kids what they want. So when you start complaining on internet forums, replying with emotions on surveys, writing your agencies or telling biologist/ game wardens something needs done, be careful what you ask for, you just may get it.

I do agree there are some issues in the turkey flock, but I can't honestly see how this regulation changes the trend. About 40% of successful hunters fill the second tag. So approximately 5,500 -6,500 gobblers will survive. If you break that down sate wide it comes to ~.6 per square mile or around 20 per township or about one gobbler for every 1,000 acres. Do we really believe saving one gobbler for every thousand acres will save our flock? I know on my family's thousand acres we average about 15 mature gobblers a year as residents. We usually kill 4-5 a year. So can anyone tell me the difference in poult survival between 10 surviving gobblers and 11?

I am an avid fall hunter and I can see more argument against a fall season then this lunacy. I would desire to keep the fall season, but I would give it up if I believed it would stabilize the flock. I do doubt that it would, but it makes more sense then reducing the spring bag limit by one. At least you'd be saving some hens.

The elephant in the room is and always has been predators, weather and habitat. Addressing all those is far more difficult and time demanding. It will take a lot of work and money with more controversy. This is pandering, plain and simple. I really would like to see the science that shows saving a small percentage of the gobblers, in Ohio, will change anything. I realize in some areas of the country it may make a difference, but this is not one of them. Again look at the mean (lateral curve) on the harvest graph, it's flat! what is happening to our flock is not harvest related, period.

I agree with this 100%.  Having said that, I also understand where the general hunting public (in any state) is coming from.  I have seen it here, and I suspect a lot of others see it in their states, too. 

We have a conundrum that is "a tough nut to crack",...and here it is:
The folks that hunt public lands are seeing increased hunting pressure and fewer turkeys.  Many of those folks are not "serious" turkey hunters, but they go out a few days to hunt and a significant number of them are unsuccessful.  Again, they see more hunters,...and hear fewer gobblers every year. 

So,...what is their natural reaction going to be?  They are saying to themselves,..."The woods are full of turkey hunters, and I am seeing fewer and fewer turkeys every year.  Why are we letting hunters kill two gobblers when many of us are not able to kill one?"  That is a natural reaction,...and I don't think it is all that uncommon. Hence, you see the results of those "hunter surveys". 

Here's where the "wicket gets sticky".  PRIVATE landowners don't have that problem.  They can make improvements on their land, control predators, etc. such that their turkey numbers are stable.  They also can control HUNTER NUMBERS on their property! 

That is all well and good,...but here's the catch:  The wild turkeys within a state's borders are "held in trust" for the people of that state.  That is, the citizens of the state "own" all of the turkeys, whether they are on public or private land. 

The bottom line is that, at the end of the day those "citizens" are going to control hunting regulations,...and a lot of those "citizens" are those that make up that portion of turkey hunters who are resigned to hunting public lands,...and in turn, are the ones that are witnessing those increasing hunter numbers and decreasing turkey numbers!

So, the next question is,...Do you think those public land hunters are benevolent enough to say,..."hmmm,...we own the turkeys and the places we get to hunt are pretty sh*tty, but let's go ahead and let those lucky hunters that have private lands to hunt kill more turkeys than we get to?"   ...If you believe that is going to happen, I've got a bridge in the desert of New Mexico that I will sell you...   

[deerhunt1988]

So, the next question is,...Do you think those public land hunters are benevolent enough to say,..."hmmm,...we own the turkeys and the places we get to hunt are pretty sh*tty, but let's go ahead and let those lucky hunters that have private lands to hunt kill more turkeys than we get to?"   ...If you believe that is going to happen, I've got a bridge in the desert of New Mexico that I will sell you...   

Public land hunters likely won't be saying it or encouraging it, but different bag limits for public and private lands is already happening. And at the current rate, I expect to see more of it implemented in the future.

Public land hunters have recently been getting shafted thanks to the explosion in popularity of public land/traveling turkey hunting. And we might as well stay bent over because the current trend has more shafts coming our way.

[TurkeyReaper69]

What you guys that don't live and hunt in Ohio don't realize is the state has been sending out surveys for the last several years and this is obviously what the majority of the hunters wanted. In my opinion this will help but there also needs to be a focus on predator control and habitat improvement.


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I don't understand that. Ohioans must want to submit to a 1 bird 2 week season like their brethren to the west in Indiana. Not sure why folks advocate for their hunting opportunity to be further restricted. If someone's property has a low population of birds why not set a personal limit of one gobbler, then travel to say either a buddys property, wma, etc to try and fill your second tag. It's very irresponsible for folks to jump on this bandwagon of wanting their seasons restricted statewide based on their observations on their 200 acre family farm or local wma that has been pounded by non residents the past couple years. As it has already been pointed out the elimination of jakes and hens in spring would save 15-25% of birds in the state without taking away one off the bag limit. The mass hysteria on the Internet forums and Facebook groups these last few years and led by some "doom and gloom" biologists is to blame for this, this proposal isn't backed by science. If only we had a biologist out there who would stand up and voice his studies in opposition to all this season cutting and bag limit reductions.... I mean hell look at Arkansas they have tried this shorter season and reduced bag limit for what? 10 years. Doesn't seem as if they've improved the slightest.

[eggshell]

What color is your bridge and do you deliver 

I don't disagree gobblenut. I fully expect this change to happen, as rarely does the wildlife council ever deny our wildlife division any reg they ask for. They mostly are a review board and typically a rubber stamp entity.

I have seen a few other such things come up and they have typically had one of two results:

They have made zero difference and yielded no significant change in the effected population

or

They have made it much worse.

Then there are cases where a season legitimately should have been closed and it wasn't, because there was no voice demanding it (i.e. Ruffed Grouse) .

So I will expect to only get one tag next year and in 5 years we'll still be crying about what is happening to our turkeys....I hope everyone can remind me I was wrong, that would delight me. what I will do next year is simply travel more to get my turkey hunting fix. So look out surrounding states, the buckeyes are coming, because when they fill their only tag in the first day or two, they will be coming to your neighborhood, bank on it.

Please understand I am not just being one of the greedy bastards that just wants his way. I am actually bashing the very Agency I spent most of my adult life working for. I truly believe this will not fix the decline. Gobblenut is right the hunters who are restricted to public ground are going to tell us private land owners to go pound sand. If they can't expect to fill two tags neither are you going to. Sadly even when this reg takes effect they still won't find the public land hunting one bit better in 5 years. The birds will still move to private land soon as they get pressured. There are only so many birds resident on any parcel of public ground and about 5 hunters for every one of them. Sure a few may make it an extra few days and a hand full more hunters get their bird, because someone had to pull out. However, it won't be significant. Most of the private land hunters avoid public lands anyway and even if they go onto public it's late season when all the half hearted have quit. I have not killed a public land gobbler in Ohio in years, maybe decades. I am not your competition and almost all the private land hunters in my area will tell you the same. I am aware other areas may be very different.

It just is not science based is my beef. Punish the hunters because it makes a few people feel better about their possibility of success, while doing next to nothing to preserve the flock. It's more about spreading out the kill then saving the turkeys. Watch the kill will be almost identical next spring with or without the reg. The out of staters will like this, they can hope there's more public land gobblers when they get here....sorry guys, someone else still killed them early season.

As turkeyreaper69 said :

I mean hell look at Arkansas they have tried this shorter season and reduced bag limit for what? 10 years. Doesn't seem as if they've improved the slightest.