Arkansas

[GobbleNut]

I'm from Arkansas and have seen the good and the bad with our population.  There are still pockets of turkeys, with wide ranging reports of "we have no turkeys" to "the population is just fine".   There are some areas that almost seem void of turkeys, but by and large it's somewhere in the middle, in my opinion.   One key point is that many confuse the quality of hunting with the state of the population.  With 9 consecutive seasons of 16 days in length, judging the population on gobbling activity or even harvest totals can be misguided.   With that said, overall the decline is real. 

I'm not sure much is unique to Arkansas, that other states don't deal with, except for maybe less suitable habitat statewide to support strong populations as compared to other states.  Like many states, we have seen an explosion in predators that prey on both adult turkeys and nests/poults.  All in the last 15-20 years, trapping has declined, baiting with corn for deer has increased, hogs have spread throughout the state, and fire ants have spread much farther north.  In my opinion, arguably the most damaging issue has been the trend of increased rain fall in the critical months of April, May, and June.  This has been the norm over the last 15+ years.  To note, in 2012 it was much more dry, to the point of a 1/3 or 1/4 of the average during this span.  We had a great hatch.  In fact it was the best since 2001 and any year after.   As a result, in 2014 we killed 12,074.  Not too impressive for many, unless you understand Arkansas and recognize that this would rival the peak years of the early 2000s, considering days hunted and Jake restrictions.  But, in 2017 we had a tremendous amount of rain and flooding and our hatch suffered greatly.  2018 hatch results were much the same.   Both resulted in poult per hen counts below 1.00. 

I believe habitat is the basis for a good population.  Without it, the population can't thrive.  I have a few opinions on it concerning Arkansas.  Some agree and some disagree.  Timber companies and the USFS manage trees, not wildlife.  Concerning the USFS, I understand the benefits of prescribed burns in the long term.  But, the reality is that late season burns on a large scale aren't necessarily beneficial to already nesting or hens preparing to nest.  I realize the benefits of new growth and bugs, etc.  The key words are "late season" and "large scale" together.  You have removed nests on the ground and while hens can re-nest a few times, the success rate goes down.  Maybe not a big deal unless you'd re dealing with an already depleted and struggling population.   Mid April burns won't result in suitable nesting habitat until early summer.  In Arkansas this spring, there were burns conducted on back to back mid April days of over 10,000 acres in one region combined, in sizes of around 1,500, 2,500, and 3,000 acres.  With the majority of hens utilizing the fringes, I'm interested to know the congregation of more hens correlates with predation.  I would like to see the acreage quota reduced depending on dates scheduled per re-scheduled.  With habitat as a whole, we have seen a loss like many states, but many areas have been somewhat unchanged or even improved, yet the population has continued to decline.

I support conservative season structures, obviously within reason.  What many unfamiliar with Arkansas don't realize, or even some in Arkansas fail to realize, is that we have had conservative seasons.  Minus going to a limit of 1, which one could argue might not drastically reduce the actual overall number killed, the conservative hunting regulations aren't a new approach.  In 2001, even before our peak years, they implemented a limit of 1 jake.  2003 was the peak with nearly 20,000 turkeys checked.  By 2005, the season was reduced from as many as 39 days to 21 days and opened April 14th as compared to around April 1st or 3rd.  The season opened later than the 10th through 2010 and was 18-21 days in length.  In 2009 the fall season was canceled.   In 2011, jakes were limited to 1 per youth only.   From 2012 - 2020, the season opened from the 8th to the 20th with a length of 16 days.   Often the season landed in a gobbling lull or consisted of poor weather, driving the overall kill total down.  Considering the jake restrictions, the percentage of the overall kill dropped from nearly 40% prior to 2000, to and average of 22% from 2000-2010, then to an average of 4% from 2011 to 2020.  In 2021, further restrictions were implemented:  1 turkey limit the first week and 1 limit per WMA for the season.   What has been the result over the last 20 years?   While I don't devalue some positives for breeding and carryover, I think it's a mistake to place too much worth on it being "The" solution to the problem.  Arkansas is a prime example.  We could reduce the harvest even lower than 2021 (around 7,000) or even close the season for a year or two, and I'm of the opinion it wouldn't make much of a difference in the overall population.   

Other states are implementing changes to reduce the harvest numbers, but I expect the same results as Arkansas if the root causes of the decline are not addressed.  Other states may be on the same trajectory, but have had much larger population bases to work with.

Fantastic post! ...And right on target!   

[RUN-N-GUN]

I'm from Arkansas and have seen the good and the bad with our population.  There are still pockets of turkeys, with wide ranging reports of "we have no turkeys" to "the population is just fine".   There are some areas that almost seem void of turkeys, but by and large it's somewhere in the middle, in my opinion.   One key point is that many confuse the quality of hunting with the state of the population.  With 9 consecutive seasons of 16 days in length, judging the population on gobbling activity or even harvest totals can be misguided.   With that said, overall the decline is real. 

I'm not sure much is unique to Arkansas, that other states don't deal with, except for maybe less suitable habitat statewide to support strong populations as compared to other states.  Like many states, we have seen an explosion in predators that prey on both adult turkeys and nests/poults.  All in the last 15-20 years, trapping has declined, baiting with corn for deer has increased, hogs have spread throughout the state, and fire ants have spread much farther north.  In my opinion, arguably the most damaging issue has been the trend of increased rain fall in the critical months of April, May, and June.  This has been the norm over the last 15+ years.  To note, in 2012 it was much more dry, to the point of a 1/3 or 1/4 of the average during this span.  We had a great hatch.  In fact it was the best since 2001 and any year after.   As a result, in 2014 we killed 12,074.  Not too impressive for many, unless you understand Arkansas and recognize that this would rival the peak years of the early 2000s, considering days hunted and Jake restrictions.  But, in 2017 we had a tremendous amount of rain and flooding and our hatch suffered greatly.  2018 hatch results were much the same.   Both resulted in poult per hen counts below 1.00. 

I believe habitat is the basis for a good population.  Without it, the population can't thrive.  I have a few opinions on it concerning Arkansas.  Some agree and some disagree.  Timber companies and the USFS manage trees, not wildlife.  Concerning the USFS, I understand the benefits of prescribed burns in the long term.  But, the reality is that late season burns on a large scale aren't necessarily beneficial to already nesting or hens preparing to nest.  I realize the benefits of new growth and bugs, etc.  The key words are "late season" and "large scale" together.  You have removed nests on the ground and while hens can re-nest a few times, the success rate goes down.  Maybe not a big deal unless you'd re dealing with an already depleted and struggling population.   Mid April burns won't result in suitable nesting habitat until early summer.  In Arkansas this spring, there were burns conducted on back to back mid April days of over 10,000 acres in one region combined, in sizes of around 1,500, 2,500, and 3,000 acres.  With the majority of hens utilizing the fringes, I'm interested to know the congregation of more hens correlates with predation.  I would like to see the acreage quota reduced depending on dates scheduled per re-scheduled.  With habitat as a whole, we have seen a loss like many states, but many areas have been somewhat unchanged or even improved, yet the population has continued to decline.

I support conservative season structures, obviously within reason.  What many unfamiliar with Arkansas don't realize, or even some in Arkansas fail to realize, is that we have had conservative seasons.  Minus going to a limit of 1, which one could argue might not drastically reduce the actual overall number killed, the conservative hunting regulations aren't a new approach.  In 2001, even before our peak years, they implemented a limit of 1 jake.  2003 was the peak with nearly 20,000 turkeys checked.  By 2005, the season was reduced from as many as 39 days to 21 days and opened April 14th as compared to around April 1st or 3rd.  The season opened later than the 10th through 2010 and was 18-21 days in length.  In 2009 the fall season was canceled.   In 2011, jakes were limited to 1 per youth only.   From 2012 - 2020, the season opened from the 8th to the 20th with a length of 16 days.   Often the season landed in a gobbling lull or consisted of poor weather, driving the overall kill total down.  Considering the jake restrictions, the percentage of the overall kill dropped from nearly 40% prior to 2000, to and average of 22% from 2000-2010, then to an average of 4% from 2011 to 2020.  In 2021, further restrictions were implemented:  1 turkey limit the first week and 1 limit per WMA for the season.   What has been the result over the last 20 years?   While I don't devalue some positives for breeding and carryover, I think it's a mistake to place too much worth on it being "The" solution to the problem.  Arkansas is a prime example.  We could reduce the harvest even lower than 2021 (around 7,000) or even close the season for a year or two, and I'm of the opinion it wouldn't make much of a difference in the overall population.   

Other states are implementing changes to reduce the harvest numbers, but I expect the same results as Arkansas if the root causes of the decline are not addressed.  Other states may be on the same trajectory, but have had much larger population bases to work with.

You hit the nail on the head brother! Here in south Louisiana the shortened season has been in effect for a few years now. We're have more gobbling turkeys here now since the early 2000's. It's been a slow process. 4 years ago I think we only killed 6 gobblers on 10,000 acres. Last year the numbers were significantly higher. The main difference was trapping. Not only coons and coyotes but hogs! We've trapped and killed probably close to 300 hogs just in the last two years! I believe the shortened " later" season, along with adequate predator control will result in better hatch's as long as the weather corporates. Considering the life span of an adult wild turkey is only 4-5 years 3-4 years of bad hatch= few turkeys!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dzsmith]

So the lack of responses to my question and lack of desire to derail the TN thread has me more and more curious.  Why does Arkansas turkey hunting suck?  I don't think we can make the same arguments as we make in other states.  What say y'all?  I honestly have no idea.

based on the behavior ive seen from a few arkies I know that hunted the same public I have  back in the 90s and early 2000s.....it doesn't surprise me that Arkansas has essentially a non existent turkey population. 50% a joke, and 50% reality

[dzsmith]

I'm from Arkansas and have seen the good and the bad with our population.  There are still pockets of turkeys, with wide ranging reports of "we have no turkeys" to "the population is just fine".   There are some areas that almost seem void of turkeys, but by and large it's somewhere in the middle, in my opinion.   One key point is that many confuse the quality of hunting with the state of the population.  With 9 consecutive seasons of 16 days in length, judging the population on gobbling activity or even harvest totals can be misguided.   With that said, overall the decline is real. 

I'm not sure much is unique to Arkansas, that other states don't deal with, except for maybe less suitable habitat statewide to support strong populations as compared to other states.  Like many states, we have seen an explosion in predators that prey on both adult turkeys and nests/poults.  All in the last 15-20 years, trapping has declined, baiting with corn for deer has increased, hogs have spread throughout the state, and fire ants have spread much farther north.  In my opinion, arguably the most damaging issue has been the trend of increased rain fall in the critical months of April, May, and June.  This has been the norm over the last 15+ years.  To note, in 2012 it was much more dry, to the point of a 1/3 or 1/4 of the average during this span.  We had a great hatch.  In fact it was the best since 2001 and any year after.   As a result, in 2014 we killed 12,074.  Not too impressive for many, unless you understand Arkansas and recognize that this would rival the peak years of the early 2000s, considering days hunted and Jake restrictions.  But, in 2017 we had a tremendous amount of rain and flooding and our hatch suffered greatly.  2018 hatch results were much the same.   Both resulted in poult per hen counts below 1.00. 

I believe habitat is the basis for a good population.  Without it, the population can't thrive.  I have a few opinions on it concerning Arkansas.  Some agree and some disagree.  Timber companies and the USFS manage trees, not wildlife.  Concerning the USFS, I understand the benefits of prescribed burns in the long term.  But, the reality is that late season burns on a large scale aren't necessarily beneficial to already nesting or hens preparing to nest.  I realize the benefits of new growth and bugs, etc.  The key words are "late season" and "large scale" together.  You have removed nests on the ground and while hens can re-nest a few times, the success rate goes down.  Maybe not a big deal unless you'd re dealing with an already depleted and struggling population.   Mid April burns won't result in suitable nesting habitat until early summer.  In Arkansas this spring, there were burns conducted on back to back mid April days of over 10,000 acres in one region combined, in sizes of around 1,500, 2,500, and 3,000 acres.  With the majority of hens utilizing the fringes, I'm interested to know the congregation of more hens correlates with predation.  I would like to see the acreage quota reduced depending on dates scheduled per re-scheduled.  With habitat as a whole, we have seen a loss like many states, but many areas have been somewhat unchanged or even improved, yet the population has continued to decline.

I support conservative season structures, obviously within reason.  What many unfamiliar with Arkansas don't realize, or even some in Arkansas fail to realize, is that we have had conservative seasons.  Minus going to a limit of 1, which one could argue might not drastically reduce the actual overall number killed, the conservative hunting regulations aren't a new approach.  In 2001, even before our peak years, they implemented a limit of 1 jake.  2003 was the peak with nearly 20,000 turkeys checked.  By 2005, the season was reduced from as many as 39 days to 21 days and opened April 14th as compared to around April 1st or 3rd.  The season opened later than the 10th through 2010 and was 18-21 days in length.  In 2009 the fall season was canceled.   In 2011, jakes were limited to 1 per youth only.   From 2012 - 2020, the season opened from the 8th to the 20th with a length of 16 days.   Often the season landed in a gobbling lull or consisted of poor weather, driving the overall kill total down.  Considering the jake restrictions, the percentage of the overall kill dropped from nearly 40% prior to 2000, to and average of 22% from 2000-2010, then to an average of 4% from 2011 to 2020.  In 2021, further restrictions were implemented:  1 turkey limit the first week and 1 limit per WMA for the season.   What has been the result over the last 20 years?   While I don't devalue some positives for breeding and carryover, I think it's a mistake to place too much worth on it being "The" solution to the problem.  Arkansas is a prime example.  We could reduce the harvest even lower than 2021 (around 7,000) or even close the season for a year or two, and I'm of the opinion it wouldn't make much of a difference in the overall population.   

Other states are implementing changes to reduce the harvest numbers, but I expect the same results as Arkansas if the root causes of the decline are not addressed.  Other states may be on the same trajectory, but have had much larger population bases to work with.

You hit the nail on the head brother! Here in south Louisiana the shortened season has been in effect for a few years now. We're have more gobbling turkeys here now since the early 2000's. It's been a slow process. 4 years ago I think we only killed 6 gobblers on 10,000 acres. Last year the numbers were significantly higher. The main difference was trapping. Not only coons and coyotes but hogs! We've trapped and killed probably close to 300 hogs just in the last two years! I believe the shortened " later" season, along with adequate predator control will result in better hatch's as long as the weather corporates. Considering the life span of an adult wild turkey is only 4-5 years 3-4 years of bad hatch= few turkeys!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

this is legitimately wonderful to read. Glad yal are healing down there

[Tail Feathers]

Back around 2000 AR was a destination hunt.  They had a lot of birds.  I had two brothers-in-law who lived in NE AR and they were always telling me to come hunt.  One of them was raised up there and said he could hear a dozen gobblers from his porch.
I never went but in a few short years when I had the time, they said the birds had pretty much disappeared.  I think this "big decline" probably started in AR first.

[RND1983]

Back around 2000 AR was a destination hunt.  They had a lot of birds.  I had two brothers-in-law who lived in NE AR and they were always telling me to come hunt.  One of them was raised up there and said he could hear a dozen gobblers from his porch.
I never went but in a few short years when I had the time, they said the birds had pretty much disappeared.  I think this "big decline" probably started in AR first.

Heard the exact same things from a few people I know in Arkansas. Literally birds just disappeared. I'm just glad measures are being taken in the south now. If they are effective measures that's TBD...

[ArMtnHntr]

El Pavo's post is a great one and mirrors most of my thoughts.    I've lived in Arkansas my entire life and started turkey hunting in 1994, so like him I've seen the ups and downs.  While there's no debating our population is down from the "good o'l days" of the early 2000's, I think some people make it sound much worse than it is, at least in the areas I hunt.   

I hunt both the Ouachita and Ozark National Forests and can think of very few days I've hunted over the last several years where I wasn't on a gobbling turkey.   Did I hear 6 or 7 at daylight like I did 20 yrs ago, no.  But the opportunities are still there.  I killed my first bird on the 2nd day of season this year and didn't see or hear another hunter in the area I was in.  I killed my second bird on the next to last day of season, directly off the roost and didn't see another vehicle as I drove out 15 miles of national forest road.  In between those two birds I had several other close calls and damn fine hunts.

What I've noticed the last several years: If I hunt past 10:00 I almost never see another vehicle in the woods and if I do it's only a few. If I hunt after the first week of season I rarely see other hunters.  If it's raining or windy....nobody.  I can't even remember the last time I ran into someone out scouting before season.  If you live in Arkansas, spend less time listening to the nay sayers and more time scouting and hunting...you'll do just fine.

[Southerngobbler]

Well, my research on Arkansas is done.

[Shiloh]

My point in this post was that youtuber's didn't ruin Arkansas.  We better keep our focus and figure it out because it sounds like the rest of the southeast is where Arkansas was 15 years ago which is in the start of a slow and steady decline.

[quavers59]

   Could a big part of the ?nswer lay in the fact that thêre are many hundreds of Thousands of very Skilled Turkey Hunters Nationwide.
   Personally,I would say Yes. And you just hope that " none" of them take over the Spring limit.
    Will " some" of thêse very skilled Turkey hunters put down their shotgun after taking the 2 Tom limit in the first 2 days?
  Human nature rules-- some will continue to Turkey hunt and stay off Social media and Mum + Silent around their péers.
   Perhaps even some hêre have heard and know some of thêse Skilled outlaws.  If thêre are 3 or 4 in a family- the local turkey population will take a nosedive...

[Howie g]

   Could a big part of the ?nswer lay in the fact that thêre are many hundreds of Thousands of very Skilled Turkey Hunters Nationwide.
   Personally,I would say Yes. And you just hope that " none" of them take over the Spring limit.
    Will " some" of thêse very skilled Turkey hunters put down their shotgun after taking the 2 Tom limit in the first 2 days?
  Human nature rules-- some will continue to Turkey hunt and stay off Social media and Mum + Silent around their péers.
   Perhaps even some hêre have heard and know some of thêse Skilled outlaws.  If thêre are 3 or 4 in a family- the local turkey population will take a nosedive...

unfortunately,, this is common I'm my region .