Oklahoma going from 3 to 1

[Jimspur]

4878 fall turkeys were killed in Oklahoma in 2019. Slightly higher than their 10 year average, charts do not show 2020 data.

I think you're wrong. You are looking at harvest estimates based on
2,447 licensed hunters of which only 1,402 actually hunted.
I'm looking at actual harvest numbers by county for all 77 counties.
I'm not looking at an estimate.

[WV Flopper]

 I will agree, it is obvious you and I are looking at two different things, as I said their data....

  Table A4 is an "Estimate", I did believe it to be factual. My mistake, but can their low number of 2298 be that far off? Their survey base is too small!

Every one of our states should require checking in turkeys and all big game for that matter. These guesses, are just that, a guess. The state biologist need hard numbers to work with, for all game.

Jim, I apologize. I can not say you are wrong. 

[Jimspur]

I will agree, it is obvious you and I are looking at two different things, as I said their data....

  Table A4 is an "Estimate", I did believe it to be factual. My mistake, but can their low number of 2298 be that far off? Their survey base is too small!

Every one of our states should require checking in turkeys and all big game for that matter. These guesses, are just that, a guess. The state biologist need hard numbers to work with, for all game.

Jim, I apologize. I can not say you are wrong.

Hey WV - go to hunterstoolbox.gooutdoorsoklahoma.com
and then click on county harvest numbers. That's what I was looking at.
I don't know if it's right but it appears to be the state harvest numbers.
There are 2 pages of counties. You also have to put in dates for the
seasons. I put Sept 1 2020 to Dec 31 2020. Then select all counties.

[WV Flopper]

 I know from a half asse, half witted person, me, that their (OK) numbers are wrong. There are to many holes in those numbers to be correct!

I would like to say again, what I observed in OK this spring. "I seen more males than females."
If you are just a bit smarter than the half wit I am, you can see the issue here with new recruitment of turkeys.  I have only hunted turkeys for 32 years now, I can tell you that's not the ratio you want, if you want to sustain or grow a population!

[Jimspur]

I know from a half asse, half witted person, me, that their (OK) numbers are wrong. There are to many holes in those numbers to be correct!

I would like to say again, what I observed in OK this spring. "I seen more males than females."
If you are just a bit smarter than the half wit I am, you can see the issue here with new recruitment of turkeys.  I have only hunted turkeys for 32 years now, I can tell you that's not the ratio you want, if you want to sustain or grow a population!

Like I said, I don't know if those numbers are right. I was just stating
that if they are right eliminating fall hunting ain't gonna help.

Those numbers look low to me but I can't find any other stats.

[Paulmyr]

I know from a half asse, half witted person, me, that their (OK) numbers are wrong. There are to many holes in those numbers to be correct!

I would like to say again, what I observed in OK this spring. "I seen more males than females."
If you are just a bit smarter than the half wit I am, you can see the issue here with new recruitment of turkeys.  I have only hunted turkeys for 32 years now, I can tell you that's not the ratio you want, if you want to sustain or grow a population!

Like I said, I don't know if those numbers are right. I was just stating
that if they are right eliminating fall hunting ain't gonna help.

Those numbers look low to me but I can't find any other stats.

It may depend on if your short sighted or long sighted on whether you think not shooting hens might help or not. Most likely won't have a dramatic effect next couple years. Over the next 20 years or more my guess it will have an effect.

[Jimspur]

I know from a half asse, half witted person, me, that their (OK) numbers are wrong. There are to many holes in those numbers to be correct!

I would like to say again, what I observed in OK this spring. "I seen more males than females."
If you are just a bit smarter than the half wit I am, you can see the issue here with new recruitment of turkeys.  I have only hunted turkeys for 32 years now, I can tell you that's not the ratio you want, if you want to sustain or grow a population!

Like I said, I don't know if those numbers are right. I was just stating
that if they are right eliminating fall hunting ain't gonna help.

Those numbers look low to me but I can't find any other stats.

It may depend on if your short sighted or long sighted on whether you think not shooting hens might help or not. Most likely won't have a dramatic effect next couple years. Over the next 20 years or more my guess it will have an effect.

So you think 109 hens in a whole state, where half of the hens are
gonna lose their nest anyway, and the other 55 hens are gonna
average .88 poults per hen is gonna make a difference.

I don't care how you're sighted - that ain't gonna right the ship.

[Gooserbat]

Trust me when I tell you a one bird limit is not the solution to nest predators and poult habitat.  The captain of the ship is just spinning the wheel trying to look busy and not accomplishing anything.

[Jimspur]

Trust me when I tell you a one bird limit is not the solution to nest predators and poult habitat.  The captain of the ship is just spinning the wheel trying to look busy and not accomplishing anything.

I agree with you 100% that reducing the bag limit is not going to help
anything. I also believe that stopping the shooting of hens is not going
to accomplish anything in Oklahoma either.

[owlhoot]

Accomplishments:
Objective 1: A sample of 2,447 license holders was interviewed during February 2019. Seven
hundred and nine individuals interviewed did not hunt during 2019. One thousand four hundred
and two did hunt. Deer season was most popular with hunters. Statewide harvest estimates
increased from 2018 estimates for crow, dove, pheasant, cottontail rabbits, swamp rabbits, fox
squirrels, gray squirrels, fall turkey, woodcock, coyote, bobcat, raccoon, beaver, and otters.
Harvest estimates decreased from 2018 estimates for jackrabbits, spring turkey gray fox, quail
and red fox. Prairie chicken season remained closed during 2019. Harvest estimates for most
species were calculated statewide and for all public lands open to hunting. The limitations of the
harvest estimates were discussed in detail. Human dimensions questions pertained to controlled
hunts participation, public land regulation preferences, ODWC spending preferences, recruitment
activity and access to internet in the home.
Abstract:
The Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation (ODWC) has conducted telephone surveys
since 1986 to estimate the number of hunters and game harvest statewide and regionally. A
sample of hunting license holders (n = 2,447) was interviewed during February 2019. Sixty-six
percent of individuals interviewed hunted during 2019. Hunter and game harvest estimates and
statistics were calculated statewide. Deer (Odocoileus virginianus and O. hemionus) season was
most popular with hunters. Statewide harvest estimates for 2019 increased from 2018 estimates
for pheasant (Phasianus colchicus), dove (Zenaida macroura), swamp rabbit (S. aquaticus), fall
turkey (Meleagris gallopavo silvestris and M. g. intermedia), woodcock (Scolopax minor),
raccoon (Procyon lotor), bobcat (Lynx rufus), beaver (Castor canadensis), river otter (Lutra
canadensis), crow (Corvus brachyrhynchos), cottontail (Sylvilagus floridanus), fox squirrel
(Sciurus ), gray squirrel (S. carolinensis), , and coyote (Canis latrans). Harvest estimates

[owlhoot]

4878 fall turkeys were killed in Oklahoma in 2019. Slightly higher than their 10 year average, charts do not show 2020 data.

I think you're wrong. You are looking at harvest estimates based on
2,447 licensed hunters of which only 1,402 actually hunted.
I'm looking at actual harvest numbers by county for all 77 counties.
I'm not looking at an estimate.

So for this to be right , your saying that 1402 hunted and killed 4878 turkey in the fall. That would be one heck of a success rate estimate.

[Paulmyr]

How about an all of the above as far as solutions go. If you guys think this problems is going to turn around in a few years l got news for you. It took 40 years for the reintroduction of turkeys to get to boom levels of 15 years ago. Stop shooting hens, stop shooting dominant toms before breeding, limit the number of toms that can be taken during the season, predator control, better habitat,. Stop the downward spiral and than maybe you can think about rehabilitation.
All I hear on here is me, me, me, your limiting my opprotunities. Damn right they are how else do you think things might change. The rehabilitation of the wild turkey didn't happen because everybody and thier brother was out running across America trampling through the woods during spring breeding and nesting, shooting all the turkeys they possibly could spring or fall. That's what happened during the original downfall. Mine, mine, mine! Open your eyes people. The areas that need help are going to have to sacrifice. Predators, that problem isn't going away anytime soon. Do what you can if you can and it may help. Habitat, expanding populations across the world aren't going to help that one. The one  area that wildlife managers  can hopefully influence these down turns is hunter participation and mortality whether caused directly by shooting birds or indirectly by disrupting breeding cycles. People are crying out that something needs to be done. When they try people start bitching! What would you have them do? Should they go to Weyerhauser and tell them the pine plantations that you grow for the wood that builds houses across the world need to be managed for turkeys and not pine trees? Are they supposed to go to NY fashion shows and tell them fur is in again?
30 some years ago I spent a spring in Northern Ga. Took me almost 3 weeks of hunting everyday before I heard my 1st gobble. The yearly trips after that seen the population slowly increase before I had to stop going down there. This year I returned for the 1st time in 20 years and there were more birds gobbling by far than anything I heard in the 90's.  Population decrease? Damn you guys are spoiled! I keep hearing that turkey populations started to decline with the collapse in the fur market. I wonder what happened about the same time? The dramatic increase in the number of turkey hunters storming through the woods. Not just local turkey hunters, hunters that travel across the country taking 3,5,10 birds a season.Time for some people to suck it up and realized this is a finite resource. Stomping through the woods and spooking hens off nests has an effect, shooting dominant toms before peak breeding has an effect, shooting hens has an effect.

[Jimspur]

4878 fall turkeys were killed in Oklahoma in 2019. Slightly higher than their 10 year average, charts do not show 2020 data.

I think you're wrong. You are looking at harvest estimates based on
2,447 licensed hunters of which only 1,402 actually hunted.
I'm looking at actual harvest numbers by county for all 77 counties.
I'm not looking at an estimate.

So for this to be right , your saying that 1402 hunted and killed 4878 turkey in the fall. That would be one heck of a success rate estimate.

No - that's not what were saying. If you read the link that WV provided,
the state of Oklahoma attempted to contact 5,954 hunters. They were
only able to get interviews completed for 2,447 hunters. Of those 2,447
hunters who had a license and were interviewed, 1,402 hunters actually
hunted. So not everyone who bought a license actually went hunting.

This is a sample of the total number of hunters and they are basing their
harvest "estimates" on the info received from these 1,402 hunters.
There is obviously a lot more hunters in Oklahoma than this, but they're
estimating their harvest on this small sample size.

If you read the link that WV provided it will make more sense.

[owlhoot]

4878 fall turkeys were killed in Oklahoma in 2019. Slightly higher than their 10 year average, charts do not show 2020 data.

I think you're wrong. You are looking at harvest estimates based on
2,447 licensed hunters of which only 1,402 actually hunted.
I'm looking at actual harvest numbers by county for all 77 counties.
I'm not looking at an estimate.

So for this to be right , your saying that 1402 hunted and killed 4878 turkey in the fall. That would be one heck of a success rate estimate.

No - that's not what were saying. If you read the link that WV provided,
the state of Oklahoma attempted to contact 5,954 hunters. They were
only able to get interviews completed for 2,447 hunters. Of those 2,447
hunters who had a license and were interviewed, 1,402 hunters actually
hunted. So not everyone who bought a license actually went hunting.

This is a sample of the total number of hunters and they are basing their
harvest "estimates" on the info received from these 1,402 hunters.
There is obviously a lot more hunters in Oklahoma than this, but they're
estimating their harvest on this small sample size.

If you read the link that WV provided it will make more sense.

Got it. Maybe. So the 1402 who provided information killed 109 fall turkey. And then they used that to estimate 4878 turkey kill using the estimated amount of all turkey hunters in the state.

[Jimspur]

4878 fall turkeys were killed in Oklahoma in 2019. Slightly higher than their 10 year average, charts do not show 2020 data.

I think you're wrong. You are looking at harvest estimates based on
2,447 licensed hunters of which only 1,402 actually hunted.
I'm looking at actual harvest numbers by county for all 77 counties.
I'm not looking at an estimate.

So for this to be right , your saying that 1402 hunted and killed 4878 turkey in the fall. That would be one heck of a success rate estimate.

No - that's not what were saying. If you read the link that WV provided,
the state of Oklahoma attempted to contact 5,954 hunters. They were
only able to get interviews completed for 2,447 hunters. Of those 2,447
hunters who had a license and were interviewed, 1,402 hunters actually
hunted. So not everyone who bought a license actually went hunting.

This is a sample of the total number of hunters and they are basing their
harvest "estimates" on the info received from these 1,402 hunters.
There is obviously a lot more hunters in Oklahoma than this, but they're
estimating their harvest on this small sample size.

If you read the link that WV provided it will make more sense.

Got it. Maybe. So the 1402 who provided information killed 109 fall turkey. And then they used that to estimate 4878 turkey kill using the estimated amount of all turkey hunters in the state.

No -  the 109 hens that were killed were the ones that were on the
Oklahoma harvest report for all hunters from Sep 1 2020 to Dec 31 2020.
That's why I'm saying the 4,878 birds looks like a bogus number.
I'm looking at actual numbers not estimated numbers.
I can only go off the info that I can find. If anybody here lives in
Oklahoma and has some different numbers please post them up.

Owlhoot - look at my previous posts in this thread and go to the site I
mentioned and you can find the same info I found.