Oklahoma going from 3 to 1

[Parrot Head]

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/sports/2021/06/06/oklahoma-wild-turkeys-under-gun-their-population-shrinks/7548380002/?itm_source=AMP&itm_medium=UpNext

[Gooserbat]

It's not done yet.  Lots of push and shove to go to two birds instead by a lot of people.  I personally think it's a miss guided step and a knee jerk reaction.

[GobbleNut]

Although it is not my fight personally, I have hunted Oklahoma numerous times in the past, including this past spring.  From what I have seen and heard, I think something certainly needs to be done to help OK turkey population, at least in the western part of the state.

However, going to a statewide one-bird spring gobbler limit as the solution is questionable from a number of perspectives.  The most obvious is the resentment that will create among the state's turkey hunters.  Jumping from a three-gobbler limit just a couple of years ago to one is not going to sit well with sportsmen, I don't think.  I do not believe it will be received well,...and I think non-compliance could be rampant.

In my opinion, there are a lot of options that would be much more acceptable. First, going to a two-bird limit would probably be more palatable.  Oklahoma already has a one-bird-per-county and a one-bird-per-WMA limit.  If that is not enough, the state could be split into larger hunting units (or regions) with a one-bird limit per unit but with a second bird allowed in another unit,...and with a two-bird season limit overall.   Another option would be to have a split season timeframe where only one bird could be killed in each timeframe.

The most glaring fallacy in turkey management is the continuance of liberal fall either-sex hunting seasons in struggling turkey populations.  The very first thing to be done (relating to hunting) is to curtail all either-sex hunting.  Any time I see a state cutting spring gobbler hunting opportunity without eliminating either-sex hunting,...well, that just tells me they either don't know what they are doing,...or are bowing to "outside forces" beyond their control.  Neither is acceptable. 

[Crghss]

The most glaring fallacy in turkey management is the continuance of liberal fall either-sex hunting seasons in struggling turkey populations.  The very first thing to be done (relating to hunting) is to curtail all either-sex hunting.  Any time I see a state cutting spring gobbler hunting opportunity without eliminating either-sex hunting,...well, that just tells me they either don't know what they are doing,...or are bowing to "outside forces" beyond their control.  Neither is acceptable.

Absolutely correct, why would this not be the first step.

[Gooserbat]

I can write a very long post about it but I will just say it is easier to ignore the obvious and lower limits.

[TonyTurk]

When I got the survey in early May, it asked my opinion of pushing the season start back ten days, and my opinion of reducing the bag limit from 3 to 2.  They didn't ask if we would be ok with reducing the limit from 3 to 1...

[owlhoot]

Although it is not my fight personally, I have hunted Oklahoma numerous times in the past, including this past spring.  From what I have seen and heard, I think something certainly needs to be done to help OK turkey population, at least in the western part of the state.

However, going to a statewide one-bird spring gobbler limit as the solution is questionable from a number of perspectives.  The most obvious is the resentment that will create among the state's turkey hunters.  Jumping from a three-gobbler limit just a couple of years ago to one is not going to sit well with sportsmen, I don't think.  I do not believe it will be received well,...and I think non-compliance could be rampant.

In my opinion, there are a lot of options that would be much more acceptable. First, going to a two-bird limit would probably be more palatable.  Oklahoma already has a one-bird-per-county and a one-bird-per-WMA limit.  If that is not enough, the state could be split into larger hunting units (or regions) with a one-bird limit per unit but with a second bird allowed in another unit,...and with a two-bird season limit overall.   Another option would be to have a split season timeframe where only one bird could be killed in each timeframe.

The most glaring fallacy in turkey management is the continuance of liberal fall either-sex hunting seasons in struggling turkey populations.  The very first thing to be done (relating to hunting) is to curtail all either-sex hunting.  Any time I see a state cutting spring gobbler hunting opportunity without eliminating either-sex hunting,...well, that just tells me they either don't know what they are doing,...or are bowing to "outside forces" beyond their control.  Neither is acceptable.

Maybe they don't see the fall hunting seasons with the lower harvests being a problem.

[dah]

Declining turkey population , how can either sex hunting not be a problem . Changing regs with no research , no testing , not even offering any other ideas but take gobblers away and move a date . Clueless ? I don't believe the department even knows how to start to identify the real problems much less make logical decisions to correct the problems. If it was a fish kill or lower deer harvest they would be on it . This decline is several years in the making and this is all they have ?

[GobbleNut]

The most glaring fallacy in turkey management is the continuance of liberal fall either-sex hunting seasons in struggling turkey populations.  The very first thing to be done (relating to hunting) is to curtail all either-sex hunting.  Any time I see a state cutting spring gobbler hunting opportunity without eliminating either-sex hunting,...well, that just tells me they either don't know what they are doing,...or are bowing to "outside forces" beyond their control.  Neither is acceptable.

Maybe they don't see the fall hunting seasons with the lower harvests being a problem.

Here's the deal.  The overriding factor in wild turkey management is based on the fact that turkeys are polygamous.  That is, a single (or a few) gobblers in a population will breed many hens.  As long as you have enough breeding-age gobblers in an area to achieve full breeding of the hen population, there is no concern about gobbler numbers. Conclusion: in any turkey population where there is sustainable population recruitment (nesting success/poult survival to adulthood), there are going to be a significant percentage of gobblers that are going to be "surplus".  We can remove those gobblers from the population without impacting the reproductive potential of that population.

In any turkey population that is in "critical decline", (that is, there is not sufficient population recruitment over time to for that population to sustain itself), without supplementing that population artificially (i.e....transplants), you are essentially relying on there being a turn-around in nesting success/poult survival to adulthood. 

IF that is what you are relying on, you want to have as many adult, breeding-age hens in that population as you can so that when there is successful nesting/poult survival on a significant scale, that population will be able to rebound as quickly as possible.  In essence, there are no "surplus" hens in those critically declining turkey populations.  ALL of them should be protected. 

That should be a pretty simple concept for wildlife managers to understand,...and those that do pretty quickly make the connection that reducing the harvest of "surplus" gobblers without protecting the remaining "non-surplus" hen population in that area is counterintuitive.  Those two things go hand-in-hand. 

Don't get me wrong here.  Reducing spring gobbler harvest in an area MIGHT be necessary in populations where there are not enough remaining gobblers to achieve full "breeding saturation" of the hen population.  But doing that without also protecting your hen population is nothing but pure folly and absolutely makes no sense biologically/scientifically.

[Yelpster]

cant hurt for the short term

[Hook hanger]

Disease outbreak can and should make a state lower season  limit abruptly. Oklahoma absolutely ? % needs to go to 1 bird limit.

[TonyTurk]

So if they reduce the bag limit to 1, and it doesn't work, what is the next step?

Because IMO, that's exactly what would happen.  The population isn't going to rebound simply because the bag limit is reduced, without addressing the other factors that have contributed to the decline. 

I guess at that point they will just cancel turkey hunting altogether.

[Gooserbat]

So if they reduce the bag limit to 1, and it doesn't work, what is the next step?

Because IMO, that's exactly what would happen.  The population isn't going to rebound simply because the bag limit is reduced, without addressing the other factors that have contributed to the decline. 

I guess at that point they will just cancel turkey hunting altogether.

Exactly. 

[jgard]

Its feels like that we all recognize there is a problem.. The State nor anyone one knows the actual cause but we have to do something so we will reduce the limit.

[makestomstremble]

First off, I am not a wildlife biologist or wildlife expert, just a guy that lives/hunts western OK. I will go along with whatever they come up with in the way of rule changes (even if don't agree with them). Like gobblenut said, we should be protecting all hens all year. Secondly, reduce the yearly bag to (2) bearded toms, going to a one bird limit I think is too much. From what I have observed, I believe the biggest part of the problem is predation and weather. I have coyotes come to my calling every year, I have shot several. I have killed  two in my yard where I live, one while running a riding mower. We have good numbers of bobcats, not to mention all the nest robbers in the woods. Until we can achieve about 3 good hatchs in a row, our numbers will probably stay down from what we experienced years ago. I notice years when we see very few jakes, or none at all.

Will these rule changes fix our problem? I kind of doubt they will, they may help. At least the ODWC is finally publicly recognizing what hunters have noticed for several years now. I think the biggest thing is recruitment in maintaining good populations of birds. I see hens this time of year by themselves, or with one or two poults. I did see one a couple of weeks ago that had 6 or 7 with her. Thank you for your time.