Grant Woods on turkeys.

[Dtrkyman]

Ever crow hunt with an owl decoy?  They absolutely bomb that thing!  Maybe the west nile helped the turkey population years ago, crows were pretty much gone in the Midwest for a while!

[Southerngobbler]

I think the guy that made this video has some valid points and I'm even more happy that someone is actually trying to figure this all out.
I do have to point out that where I hunt in Florida none of this stuff is really taking place and our turkeys are declining the same as everyone's else through out the united states. It would be quite the coincident if our turkeys were declining at the same rate and same time as everyone's else but for a different reason. 
I hunt a large military base that hasn't changed in years land wise, no encroachment whatsoever in at least 50 years. The predator food plots he mentioned don't exist here, just huge chucks of great cover-miles and miles and miles of it, mostly devoid of turkeys.
Maybe we have more predator's but  really not so much. Steel traps were outlawed in FL in the early 70s and lets face it, there's never been much of a fur industry in Florida, just too warm and the pelts aren't worth much.
There's really just one main culprit. Supply verses demand.
I'm all for trying to eliminate predators and improve habitat. I'm sure every little bit helps but the real problem is just supply vs demand.

[Jimspur]

They're definitely opportunists.

That's a big part of the problem.  There are too many "opportunists" out there nowadays.  In addition, many of them are protected species  based on their historical numbers from decades ago rather than their population status today.  Around these parts, crows and ravens are protected species and they are totally out of control numbers-wise.

We can say in this forum there are too many crows, too many raccoons, too many coyotes, too many you name it that will eat a turkey. And we can say we need to kill more of them. How do you explain that to the masses that don't hunt and might care as much or more about a crow as they do a gobbler?  To them, it must sound like we want to kill crows so they won't kill turkeys, so we can kill the turkeys the crows would have killed. 

I don't think they would see that as balancing nature.

You're 100% right. One of our members touched on this subject a couple
of days ago. It's hard to justify to the non-hunters out there that you
need to kill more of x,y, and z birds or animals, so you can have more
turkeys to kill.

Where I live they do have a season for crow hunting.

[GobbleNut]

All the rational arguments and talking points we hunters make about balanced ecosystems and the like means absolutely nothing to that segment of our population that is against hunting.  Their point of view is totally emotion-based.  Fortunately, the great majority of our citizenry recognizes that for all of us to exist, other "things" on this planet must die.  They accept that hunters make the choice to take a "hands-on" approach,...but at the same time they expect us to understand that we cannot be too calloused about the way we do it.

More and more, we tread a fine line between those emotion-based rantings of the anti-hunters and that majority portion of the populace that accepts what we do. That is why it is so important for us hunters to understand that we have to approach things like predator management and nuisance-species control very carefully when explaining (and demonstrating) that "balanced ecosystem" concept.  A calloused approach to doing that no longer cuts it in this day and age.    ?

The bottom line is that we need to recognize that this "new society" exists and that we need to do a better job of presenting ourselves and our point of view in dealing with it.  That is essential to keeping those that currently accept us on our side. 

[Greg Massey]

All the rational arguments and talking points we hunters make about balanced ecosystems and the like means absolutely nothing to that segment of our population that is against hunting.  Their point of view is totally emotion-based.  Fortunately, the great majority of our citizenry recognizes that for all of us to exist, other "things" on this planet must die.  They accept that hunters make the choice to take a "hands-on" approach,...but at the same time they expect us to understand that we cannot be too calloused about the way we do it.

More and more, we tread a fine line between those emotion-based rantings of the anti-hunters and that majority portion of the populace that accepts what we do. That is why it is so important for us hunters to understand that we have to approach things like predator management and nuisance-species control very carefully when explaining (and demonstrating) that "balanced ecosystem" concept.  A calloused approach to doing that no longer cuts it in this day and age.    ?

The bottom line is that we need to recognize that this "new society" exists and that we need to do a better job of presenting ourselves and our point of view in dealing with it.  That is essential to keeping those that currently accept us on our side.

X2 So agree, so true..

[owlhoot]

They're definitely opportunists.

That's a big part of the problem.  There are too many "opportunists" out there nowadays.  In addition, many of them are protected species  based on their historical numbers from decades ago rather than their population status today.  Around these parts, crows and ravens are protected species and they are totally out of control numbers-wise.

We can say in this forum there are too many crows, too many raccoons, too many coyotes, too many you name it that will eat a turkey. And we can say we need to kill more of them. How do you explain that to the masses that don't hunt and might care as much or more about a crow as they do a gobbler?  To them, it must sound like we want to kill crows so they won't kill turkeys, so we can kill the turkeys the crows would have killed. 

I don't think they would see that as balancing nature.

Don't have to explain it. Don't have to talk to them. Don't have to explain it to the masses.
Many states already have a lot of fur bearer , predator seasons. problem is they are WAY under utilized.
If we want to crow hunt we can in a lot of states. Again way under utilized.
We can use what's in place to help manage predators and improve habitat.
It isn't about just increasing turkey numbers so we can shoot them, its about stopping the decline that plenty of states are seeing from turkeys becoming the next protected species.
In the mean time many of us don't want to see season closures and reduced number of hunting opportunity
so that our sport remains strong.
Its up to the game departments and us hunters to balance it.
This is a hunting forum with people from all over different states and region so some have not seen the drastic reduction in turkeys others have. For me traveling hundreds of miles through north Missouri on state highways, black tops and gravel roads seeing 100+ turkey on some trips down to none. 

[GobbleNut]

They're definitely opportunists.

That's a big part of the problem.  There are too many "opportunists" out there nowadays.  In addition, many of them are protected species  based on their historical numbers from decades ago rather than their population status today.  Around these parts, crows and ravens are protected species and they are totally out of control numbers-wise.

We can say in this forum there are too many crows, too many raccoons, too many coyotes, too many you name it that will eat a turkey. And we can say we need to kill more of them. How do you explain that to the masses that don't hunt and might care as much or more about a crow as they do a gobbler?  To them, it must sound like we want to kill crows so they won't kill turkeys, so we can kill the turkeys the crows would have killed. 

I don't think they would see that as balancing nature.

Don't have to explain it. Don't have to talk to them. Don't have to explain it to the masses.

Again, in this day and age with so many folks trying to use whatever propaganda they can to turn "the masses" against us, it is a mistake to think we don't have to "explain it".  We most certainly do....and we have to figure out a way to do it that they can relate to.  That is the ever-increasing challenge we have.

Those emotion-filled antihunters are not going to let up,...and they are getting more and more sophisticated in their approach to trying to turn the public against us.  We, in turn, have to learn that we must be more sophisticated in our approach to reasoning with them. 

We can deny it all we want, but hunting is gradually becoming more and more controversial as our society becomes more and more urbanized.  We have to admit that to ourselves, and figure out ways to address it that are acceptable to those masses of folks that control our destiny as hunters.   

[Sir-diealot]

They're definitely opportunists.

That's a big part of the problem.  There are too many "opportunists" out there nowadays.  In addition, many of them are protected species  based on their historical numbers from decades ago rather than their population status today.  Around these parts, crows and ravens are protected species and they are totally out of control numbers-wise.

We can say in this forum there are too many crows, too many raccoons, too many coyotes, too many you name it that will eat a turkey. And we can say we need to kill more of them. How do you explain that to the masses that don't hunt and might care as much or more about a crow as they do a gobbler?  To them, it must sound like we want to kill crows so they won't kill turkeys, so we can kill the turkeys the crows would have killed. 

I don't think they would see that as balancing nature.

Don't have to explain it. Don't have to talk to them. Don't have to explain it to the masses.

Again, in this day and age with so many folks trying to use whatever propaganda they can to turn "the masses" against us, it is a mistake to think we don't have to "explain it".  We most certainly do....and we have to figure out a way to do it that they can relate to.  That is the ever-increasing challenge we have.

Those emotion-filled antihunters are not going to let up,...and they are getting more and more sophisticated in their approach to trying to turn the public against us.  We, in turn, have to learn that we must be more sophisticated in our approach to reasoning with them. 

We can deny it all we want, but hunting is gradually becoming more and more controversial as our society becomes more and more urbanized.  We have to admit that to ourselves, and figure out ways to address it that are acceptable to those masses of folks that control our destiny as hunters.   

Well said GobbleNut I agree completely, we can't hide out heads in the sand or somebody is going to come along and lop our heads off while we can't see and that will be the end of it.

[Meleagris gallopavo]

I have tried many times to explain many things to some urbanites with limited success.  Data and expert opinion mean very little to most of them, and to be honest the rural population as well.  We live in a time where there is so much misinformation out here that everyone can pick and choose information that fits their set of ideals and claim that information that doesn't fit is agenda-biased.  I feel like I'd have problems convincing people that the sky is blue on a clear day if they didn't want to believe it.  Clear, calm dialogue and respect for other peoples opinions and perspectives is gradually disappearing.  I don't have answers, just observations...