Kentucky Limits

[bossgobbler]

In the 1990s and early 2000s there were far fewer predators in the WV woods.  Coyotes and bobcats were not firmly rooted in most of the state and only a fraction of coons roamed the landscape compared to these days.  40 to 50 years of nearly year round killing of coons by coon hunters had kept the coon population under control and nest predation by them at a minimum.  The strong fur market fueled coon harvest in the season and dog training by fanatic houndsmen kept the pressure on coons in the off season keeping their numbers in check.  Trappers also helped in this endeavor when fur prices were robust. 

As it stands now, coon populations have exploded, in huge part due to less places to hunt with hounds, a nearly nonexistent fur market, and only a fraction of coon hunters there were back then due to many other reasons. 

Bobcats and coyotes are commonly seen now in the daylight hours when neither are most active. 
And further, just as a personal observation, I cannot ever remember seeing more birds of prey as I do currently.  Owls and hawks of all types are more present than ever in the locations I hunt and on the farm where I live. 

These high numbers of predators must certainly have an impact on brooding and nesting success and recruitment.  Throw in opossums, crows, and domestic cats and it's not difficult to understand the tough road young turkeys must overcome to adulthood. 

Perhaps predation isn't the main cause of turkey decline but I believe it is one of the major components that need to be addressed.  Foothold traps, live traps, dog proof traps, and hound hunting can put a large dent in the coon population rather quickly.  Seasoned trappers can effectively thin the coyotes, foxes and bobcats in an area as well.  I acknowledge there's nothing that can be done about owls and hawks but crows can be killed easily with electronic calls and a box of shotgun shells. 

These steps may not restore turkey numbers to the heights of the good old days but it will without a doubt produce better results than sitting on a forum bitching, moaning, and crying in your beers about the current state of things.  These attempts certainly won't hurt anything and will provide opportunity to be outdoors.

In my lifetime I've certainly done my part in the realm of raccoon harvest.  All the trucks at a UPS hub couldn't haul the coons I've killed in my lifetime.  A heart attack at 46 effectively ended my hound hunting for the most part but I still run a few traps, call in several coyotes per year, and takeout all the known non-protected nest predators I come across.  My point is that I try to practice what I preach and my place has kept a solid turkey population while other farms not far away have declined.  I encourage others to give it a try.

This is spot on! I have relentlessly trapped coons and possums on our small piece of ground and have caught over 300 in 3-4 years. That's unbelievable. I've also watched Cooper's hawks come in and clean up poults like you wouldn't believe. We had 42 poults hatch successfully a few years ago. By august we had 7 remaining poults. So all the trapping of nest predators was helpful but the aerial predators knocked them way back. It was so frustrating. Now we have an explosion of coyotes and bobcats to contend with. One thing that I think will help is the growth in popularity of thermal night vision predator hunting. I'm liking that people are catching on and getting into that.
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[Crghss]

Predator hunting/reduction should be number 1 effort to help turkeys. In the glory days of turkey, '90-'00 there where very low coyotes numbers east of Mississippi River. Trapping for raccoon, opossum and fox was still a thing but not any more.

I feel that lowering harvest #'s can never hurt. Also makes it less appealing for non-resident hunters if they can only harvest 1 vs 2.

2 things that can never be overcome.
One is loss of hunting habitat. Which drives more hunters into smaller hunting areas.
Two is Raptors, way more hawks now days.

[TonyTurk]

Agree 100% on the predator issue.

I have seen more nests that were raided/destroyed by predators in the last 3 years, than I saw in the previous 20 years. 

[Cowboy]

Going to get back on subject for a minute - KENTUCKY LIMITS.  Having lived in KY from 1995 - 2004 I may have been there during the peak of KY turkey success.  Living within sight of LBL I hunted it through its short season and never struck out.  The limit in the KY portion of LBL was always one.  Many hunters were selective and, although legal, jakes were usually safe.  KY established one of the best Telecheck systems in the country so anyone can see if the actually harvest numbers have plummeted state wide and if there should be real concern.  Take a look at KY Telecheck and make up your own mind.  IMO there are many ways various states can slow these declines.  Number one is later opening days.  Through the late 1990s you heard a consistent whining about opening the season earlier rather than later so "we can hunt when they're gobblin' good".  Ohio a prime example.  I started turkey hunting in Ohio in the 1970s and got almost tired of hearing this.  Ohio was doing a fairly good job until this year when they went with the insane Saturday opener which effectively added an extra weekend to the season.  IMO there are lots of little things that can be done but one giant problem is racoons which should be treated like rats.  Fun stuff even if I can only take one bird instead of two.  Any state still with a three bird limit is fooling themselves.   

I agree. This 3 bird limit in my state is getting ridiculous too.

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[nativeks]

Reducing bag limits would also lead to the inevitable, unreported harvest. How many guys that have shot two turkeys on their own private land are going to just up and stop killing a 2nd bird on their own land that may have sustainable to excellent turkey numbers because the state told them so?

Sure it'll slow down public land harvest, but those guys will continue to kill two on their private lands because they like hunting and they like to eat turkey.

Kansas is prime example of this, and I bet if you asked around small town bars during turkey season how they felt about the bag limit reduction from 2 to 1, they might just tell you they'd already shot three this year.

I dont believe that is a true statement. Only people I know that were pissed about the bag limit reduction were outfitters. Those same outfitters said this was the toughest year they have ever seen. Lots of turkey hunters I know here were unsuccessful this year. Might be a few rogue hunters still shooting more but they were going to do it regardless of the bag limit. I live here and own property and wont be buying a tag next year.

[Roost 1]

This year was a record harvest statewide here in KY.

                      Male.   Female   Total.                     
                     28961.  232.       29193

If that's what they say is the best option to continue forward I'm for it. I think there are plentiful reasons for the numbers changing nationwide, predator numbers and increased hunter pressure being a great part of that. We have a 1 Buck limit as well for deer.

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Not the record harvest...

[EastKyGobblerSlayer]

This year was a record harvest statewide here in KY.

                      Male.   Female   Total.                     
                     28961.  232.       29193

If that's what they say is the best option to continue forward I'm for it. I think there are plentiful reasons for the numbers changing nationwide, predator numbers and increased hunter pressure being a great part of that. We have a 1 Buck limit as well for deer.

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Not the record harvest...

Absolutely right after I read more into it, I've corrected and noted my error in my previous post.

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[bear hunter]

In the 1990s and early 2000s there were far fewer predators in the WV woods.  Coyotes and bobcats were not firmly rooted in most of the state and only a fraction of coons roamed the landscape compared to these days.  40 to 50 years of nearly year round killing of coons by coon hunters had kept the coon population under control and nest predation by them at a minimum.  The strong fur market fueled coon harvest in the season and dog training by fanatic houndsmen kept the pressure on coons in the off season keeping their numbers in check.  Trappers also helped in this endeavor when fur prices were robust. 

As it stands now, coon populations have exploded, in huge part due to less places to hunt with hounds, a nearly nonexistent fur market, and only a fraction of coon hunters there were back then due to many other reasons. 

Bobcats and coyotes are commonly seen now in the daylight hours when neither are most active. 
And further, just as a personal observation, I cannot ever remember seeing more birds of prey as I do currently.  Owls and hawks of all types are more present than ever in the locations I hunt and on the farm where I live. 

These high numbers of predators must certainly have an impact on brooding and nesting success and recruitment.  Throw in opossums, crows, and domestic cats and it's not difficult to understand the tough road young turkeys must overcome to adulthood. 

Perhaps predation isn't the main cause of turkey decline but I believe it is one of the major components that need to be addressed.  Foothold traps, live traps, dog proof traps, and hound hunting can put a large dent in the coon population rather quickly.  Seasoned trappers can effectively thin the coyotes, foxes and bobcats in an area as well.  I acknowledge there's nothing that can be done about owls and hawks but crows can be killed easily with electronic calls and a box of shotgun shells. 

These steps may not restore turkey numbers to the heights of the good old days but it will without a doubt produce better results than sitting on a forum bitching, moaning, and crying in your beers about the current state of things.  These attempts certainly won't hurt anything and will provide opportunity to be outdoors.

In my lifetime I've certainly done my part in the realm of raccoon harvest.  All the trucks at a UPS hub couldn't haul the coons I've killed in my lifetime.  A heart attack at 46 effectively ended my hound hunting for the most part but I still run a few traps, call in several coyotes per year, and takeout all the known non-protected nest predators I come across.  My point is that I try to practice what I preach and my place has kept a solid turkey population while other farms not far away have declined.  I encourage others to give it a try.


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.  This fella sees it the same way I see it . 

well said

[topnotch]

Lowering limits and not killing hens in the fall season is a positive in our state. I wish they would make Jake's off limits also.
Travel for Merriams and Rios is always a treat I'd hate to give up.

[Kygobblergetter]

Could you link the article? I can't find anything about ky going to one bird limit? I would love to see them get rid of the fall season and only allow jakes to be harvested by youth hunters


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[owlhoot]

 
.


[/quote] I live here and own property and wont be buying a tag next year.
[/quote]
Sorry to hear that.
So the state that will not stop the shooting of hens in the fall, allows all non residents over the counter tags goes ahead and reduces spring hunting opportunity for everyone. ( Now I do think that non-resident landowners, those that hunt on family or relatives farms should still be allowed).

[Roost 1]

Could you link the article? I can't find anything about ky going to one bird limit? I would love to see them get rid of the fall season and only allow jakes to be harvested by youth hunters


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It was just a suggestion.... If you wanna hear the whole thing go to KDFWR JUNE 4th meeting on YouTube.

[Parrot Head]

FRANKFORT, Ky. (WTVQ) – Disease, predators and poor property management are taking their toll on two of the state's most popular game animals...
And it has the group responsible for managing the state's hunting and fishing rules worried.
...
"We're going to be making some really hard changes like Arkansas has, or Louisiana is talking doing or Tennessee has done. I mean these states are at the point where it is kind of like a crisis mode..."
...
The board will consider some recommendations next month and also develop programs to help land owners better manage their wildlife, especially wild turkeys, which are falling prey to bobcats, coyotes and other predators.

[Jimspur]

Lowering limits and not killing hens in the fall season is a positive in our state. I wish they would make Jake's off limits also.
Travel for Merriams and Rios is always a treat I'd hate to give up.

Making jakes off-limits helps save more than just the jakes. It will also
stop people from shooting at a red head without seeing the beard.

The flip side of this is how many people will still shoot at a red head,
and if it's a jake just leave it laying there.

[quavers59]

     Close down Spring Turkey Hunting at the " Land Between The Lakes" for 1 Spring since that is a Mecca for out of state Spring Turkey Hunters.