Hunting without diaphragm calls

[WildTigerTrout]

At one point many years ago here in Pennsylvania(1909 to 1936) ANY turkey call was illegal!  My great great Uncle Jet who loved to hunt turkeys used his pipe he smoked tobacco in as a turkey call much like you would use a wing bone call.  He killed turkeys too with this technique.  I remember him showing me this when I was a young teenager.

[Howie g]

At one point many years ago here in Pennsylvania(1909 to 1936) ANY turkey call was illegal!  My great great Uncle Jet who loved to hunt turkeys used his pipe he smoked tobacco in as a turkey call much like you would use a wing bone call.  He killed turkeys too with this technique.  I remember him showing me this when I was a young teenager.

.   
That's pretty cool ,, my grandpa used a short cane reed . He killed piles of em too .

[Paulmyr]

Also, calling in general is overrated, IMO.  Doesn't take a very good turkey caller to consistently kill turkeys if he/she has good woodsmanship skills and knows how to properly set up on turkeys, use terrain to your advantage, etc...

Tell that to the guy sitting in a private field with his funky chicken and a hen decoy after I turned I tom back into public for my dad to shoot this spring. Calling isn't everything but it sure helps. Especially if your good at it and know what to say.

I agree with your statement, and it sounds like you are a good caller.  But as you would likely agree with, newcomers to turkey hunting often obsess over their calling (witness the huge pack of different calls) while ignoring other very important aspects of turkey hunting, IMO.  So, per the OP's original question on diaphragm calls, I definitely don't feel like one has to master the diaphragm to consistently kill turkeys...

Consistently is the  operative word in that statement. It could mean one per season or even less.
Turkeys that are gobbling and letting you know where there at, woodsmanship can play a big role in killing them turkeys especially for the "Pearl Harbor" type hunters. Not my game.
Where good calling really shines is striking a gobbler when the woods are quiet, getting him fired up, and bringing him in. Knowing what to say to turkeys, how to say it, and when to say it is HUGE if your going to really consistently kill gobblers.
I would put listening and paying attention to what's going on when turkeys are gobbling as number 1. It could be considered woodsmanship depending on your definition. I think most take woodsmanship as knowing how to sneak around, read sign, reading terrain, and possibly how to pattern turkeys.

Just this mourning I had a number of gobblers in front of me on private land. Also a number of hens around as well. Most of the hens were not paying attention to the toms Gobbling thier asses off. When I 1st showed up my guess was 5 toms. Most of the hens were paying attention to the new girl/ me. There was a lot of commotion. Hens squawking, toms gobbling, just to much going on to make a play. A couple toms faded off and you could here them as they went but the hens payed close attention to me. They didn't show themselves but they were making a fuss none the less. Were they breeding or waiting to be bred?  My guess not likely. Late in the season as it is my guess this was rendezvous point and most hens were going off to lay eggs soon. I toned down my calling to almost non existent an waited. 2 gobblers chased hens on thier way off to lay eggs. One to the south one to the northwest but returned soon after. One made his way within 100yds of where I originally called from. He showed interest so I called to him. He responded and then went silent. I waited. Waited. Waited. Nothing. I called and the only response was the gobbler in the small private field. When I did call it told me a few hens were still left so I sat and listened.
Cutting in the small field and all 3 toms going nuts. Cutting continues as she leaves out the northwest. She's just been bred and the big boy is chasing her gobbling as he goes. Northwest is good because that brings him on to public. I move closer but not to close.
The hen activity quiets so I call. Responses from all 3. I wait. Movement to my left. It's coming closer. It's a hen. She's nonchalantly looking for me but not too hard. She pays no attention to the gobbling around her. She moves across in front of me maybe 80 yds. A tom gobbles I respond. She's uninterested. She moves off and fades away, off to lay eggs. I hear what I presume to be 3 toms back in front of me on private. I get up and sneak to the exit point to the northwest and set up. It's been quiet for a while now no gobbling, no hens, no calling from me.
I hear a tom  gobbling out on private again. He's a ways off. He's getting closer. But still 300yds plus away. He knows there's still one hen left. He's been hearing her all mourning. I finally break the silence and call to him.
Dang the Boss didn't return yet and fires off 150yds behind me and to the right. I scootch as much as I dare to my left. Right handed shooter.  He fires again closer. And again. He's right behind me clucking. I cluck back to put him at ease. He fires off still clucking. He's directly behind me clucking and gobbleing. I cluck back to put him at ease again. He's moving to my left. Good. I'm looking through my left ear hole moving my gun as slow as I possibly can. I see him. He's 30yds out still clucking. I don't dare cluck now as I'm exposed. Slowly moving my gun. Cluck, cluck cluck gobble. Cluck cluck cluck gobble. My guns almost there. I can't make it. He's still moving to my left but the clucking starts to get annoyed pipping. He moves off pipping as he goes. The woods go silent. I call a few times to no avail.
Them toms new I was there. The subs played but wouldn't show with the boss around. Boss knew I was there and as soon as he got done taking care of business he let me know.

To your woodsmanship point. If I would have payed attention to the crows, they were letting me know he was back there. He wasn't gobbling but they sure we're trying.
Everything came into play this mourn. Good calling, when and when not to say anything. Woodsmanship, I had a good idea where these birds were heading this mourn got back into the truck and circled around in front of them about a mile. I've only been in this area one other time and nothing was going. We both showed up at about he same time. Mind you it took a while for my glasses to quit fogging.
Listening, listening, listening, and lots of patience. To your point of newbies my guess is they don't have the patience to sit in this scenario for 4 hours. They would have been calling to much, moving  set ups to much, and and just plain not listening to what's going on and forcing the issue most likely spooking birds and shutting the whole thing down.

How does this pertain to using a diaphram call. There were a number of times when I had birds very close. Mostly hens. If I wasn't able to call without movement most likely I would have been busted. I couldn't see them but I guarantee they could see where I was.

I could get into the 3 toms I fired up at noon after moving to a new location today  and got them to 35 yds within 10 mins when it was 87 degrees when the woods were deafly quiet and I was pouring sweat just thinking about moving. That was all about the calling. It has a sour ending due to gun issues so I'm just going to chew on that one for a while. Pretty sure a crow call and woodsmanship wouldn't have done it.
A little cocky? Maybe but as I've stated in previous posts be confident in whatever you are doing especially calling even if it's wrong. If your not it won't sound right to you or the turkeys!

[Meleagris gallopavo]

Also, calling in general is overrated, IMO.  Doesn't take a very good turkey caller to consistently kill turkeys if he/she has good woodsmanship skills and knows how to properly set up on turkeys, use terrain to your advantage, etc...

Tell that to the guy sitting in a private field with his funky chicken and a hen decoy after I turned I tom back into public for my dad to shoot this spring. Calling isn't everything but it sure helps. Especially if your good at it and know what to say.

I agree with your statement, and it sounds like you are a good caller.  But as you would likely agree with, newcomers to turkey hunting often obsess over their calling (witness the huge pack of different calls) while ignoring other very important aspects of turkey hunting, IMO.  So, per the OP's original question on diaphragm calls, I definitely don't feel like one has to master the diaphragm to consistently kill turkeys...

Consistently is the  operative word in that statement. It could mean one per season or even less.
Turkeys that are gobbling and letting you know where there at, woodsmanship can play a big role in killing them turkeys especially for the "Pearl Harbor" type hunters. Not my game.
Where good calling really shines is striking a gobbler when the woods are quiet, getting him fired up, and bringing him in. Knowing what to say to turkeys, how to say it, and when to say it is HUGE if your going to really consistently kill gobblers.
I would put listening and paying attention to what's going on when turkeys are gobbling as number 1. It could be considered woodsmanship depending on your definition. I think most take woodsmanship as knowing how to sneak around, read sign, reading terrain, and possibly how to pattern turkeys.

Just this mourning I had a number of gobblers in front of me on private land. Also a number of hens around as well. Most of the hens were not paying attention to the toms Gobbling thier asses off. When I 1st showed up my guess was 5 toms. Most of the hens were paying attention to the new girl/ me. There was a lot of commotion. Hens squawking, toms gobbling, just to much going on to make a play. A couple toms faded off and you could here them as they went but the hens payed close attention to me. They didn't show themselves but they were making a fuss none the less. Were they breeding or waiting to be bred?  My guess not likely. Late in the season as it is my guess this was rendezvous point and most hens were going off to lay eggs soon. I toned down my calling to almost non existent an waited. 2 gobblers chased hens on thier way off to lay eggs. One to the south one to the northwest but returned soon after. One made his way within 100yds of where I originally called from. He showed interest so I called to him. He responded and then went silent. I waited. Waited. Waited. Nothing. I called and the only response was the gobbler in the small private field. When I did call it told me a few hens were still left so I sat and listened.
Cutting in the small field and all 3 toms going nuts. Cutting continues as she leaves out the northwest. She's just been bred and the big boy is chasing her gobbling as he goes. Northwest is good because that brings him on to public. I move closer but not to close.
The hen activity quiets so I call. Responses from all 3. I wait. Movement to my left. It's coming closer. It's a hen. She's nonchalantly looking for me but not too hard. She pays no attention to the gobbling around her. She moves across in front of me maybe 80 yds. A tom gobbles I respond. She's uninterested. She moves off and fades away, off to lay eggs. I hear what I presume to be 3 toms back in front of me on private. I get up and sneak to the exit point to the northwest and set up. It's been quiet for a while now no gobbling, no hens, no calling from me.
I hear a tom  gobbling out on private again. He's a ways off. He's getting closer. But still 300yds plus away. He knows there's still one hen left. He's been hearing her all mourning. I finally break the silence and call to him.
Dang the Boss didn't return yet and fires off 150yds behind me and to the right. I scootch as much as I dare to my left. Right handed shooter.  He fires again closer. And again. He's right behind me clucking. I cluck back to put him at ease. He fires off still clucking. He's directly behind me clucking and gobbleing. I cluck back to put him at ease again. He's moving to my left. Good. I'm looking through my left ear hole moving my gun as slow as I possibly can. I see him. He's 30yds out still clucking. I don't dare cluck now as I'm exposed. Slowly moving my gun. Cluck, cluck cluck gobble. Cluck cluck cluck gobble. My guns almost there. I can't make it. He's still moving to my left but the clucking starts to get annoyed pipping. He moves off pipping as he goes. The woods go silent. I call a few times to no avail.
Them toms new I was there. The subs played but wouldn't show with the boss around. Boss knew I was there and as soon as he got done taking care of business he let me know.

To your woodsmanship point. If I would have payed attention to the crows, they were letting me know he was back there. He wasn't gobbling but they sure we're trying.
Everything came into play this mourn. Good calling, when and when not to say anything. Woodsmanship, I had a good idea where these birds were heading this mourn got back into the truck and circled around in front of them about a mile. I've only been in this area one other time and nothing was going. We both showed up at about he same time. Mind you it took a while for my glasses to quit fogging.
Listening, listening, listening, and lots of patience. To your point of newbies my guess is they don't have the patience to sit in this scenario for 4 hours. They would have been calling to much, moving  set ups to much, and and just plain not listening to what's going on and forcing the issue most likely spooking birds and shutting the whole thing down.

How does this pertain to using a diaphram call. There were a number of times when I had birds very close. Mostly hens. If I wasn't able to call without movement most likely I would have been busted. I couldn't see them but I guarantee they could see where I was.

I could get into the 3 toms I fired up at noon after moving to a new location today  and got them to 35 yds within 10 mins when it was 87 degrees when the woods were deafly quiet and I was pouring sweat just thinking about moving. That was all about the calling. It has a sour ending due to gun issues so I'm just going to chew on that one for a while. Pretty sure a crow call and woodsmanship wouldn't have done it.
A little cocky? Maybe but as I've stated in previous posts be confident in whatever you are doing especially calling even if it's wrong. If your not it won't sound right to you or the turkeys!

Enjoyed the read.


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[ChesterCopperpot]

At one point many years ago here in Pennsylvania(1909 to 1936) ANY turkey call was illegal!  My great great Uncle Jet who loved to hunt turkeys used his pipe he smoked tobacco in as a turkey call much like you would use a wing bone call.  He killed turkeys too with this technique.  I remember him showing me this when I was a young teenager.

There's a few callmakers still making pipe style calls called chibouks. Anthony Ellis makes a fine one. Great one handed suction call.


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[Paulmyr]

The best "sit down against a tree and make a Gobbler come look for you" killers I ever met, never owned a mouth yelper They also never used the excuse that those Gobblers were "subs" and thus, that was the reason they did not approach. I hear that one a lot from the "cocky" competition caller mentality crowd

From reading your other posts on old gobbler I wouldn't expect anything less from you.

[Happy]

I am glad I am not one of the best. I always have a diaphragm call in my mouth. However what that particular turkey is responding to is what that turkey gets. It pays to be versatile in my opinion. However I will take a fellow who is extremely good with one call over a fellow that is so so with multiple calls. And I don't care what type of call it is. For those that don't use visual aids the call is extremely important. I don't carry many calls compared to most but I do have enough variety to generally find something that works. 5-10 diaphragm calls don't take up much space and my results keep me happy.If a pot or box is your specialty then roll with it. Same as a wingbone or trumpet. Still doesn't hurt to be practiced up on others. You can definitely be effective without the mouth yelpers though.

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[Paulmyr]

The best "sit down against a tree and make a Gobbler come look for you" killers I ever met, never owned a mouth yelper They also never used the excuse that those Gobblers were "subs" and thus, that was the reason they did not approach. I hear that one a lot from the "cocky" competition caller mentality crowd

From reading your other posts on old gobbler I wouldn't expect anything less from you.

Only pointing out the obvious to those who need a little "deflating" from time to time

And the peanut gallery chimes in again!

[Paulmyr]

I agree with you 100% Happy

[Sir-diealot]

Only when I forget them, which has been quite often Lately. I mainly intend to use them to cackle/cut to get them to pop their heads up to shoot them but I am trying to get better with them.

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[PNWturkey]

I move closer but not to close.

Paulmyr - enjoyed the read.  Your quote above is another good example of woodsmanship skills that many newbies lack...

It makes me think of a fun challenge - on public land take a great diaphragm caller pitted against a great woosdman (who is a mediocre caller).  No decoys.  The great caller can't move, has to sit against the same tree all day.  The woodsman can move as he sees fit to set up/adjust on turkeys.

Who consistently kills more turkeys?

[guesswho]

Why is the great caller restricted to one tree?   Now remove the tree restriction from the great caller.   Would the outcome still be the same?

[HookedonHooks]

Why is the great caller restricted to one tree?   Now remove the tree restriction from the great caller.   Would the outcome still be the same?

Or what if that great caller is also a great tree picker? I don't know maybe the fella's just lucky.

[PNWturkey]

Why is the great caller restricted to one tree?   Now remove the tree restriction from the great caller.   Would the outcome still be the same?

If the great caller knows how to "move close but not too close", as in Paulmyr's story, then he arguably is also a pretty good woodsman with regards to turkey hunting.

Anyway, why would a great caller need to move in the woods, shouldn't the turkeys just come charging in to his call?   

[guesswho]

Why is the great caller restricted to one tree?   Now remove the tree restriction from the great caller.   Would the outcome still be the same?

If the great caller knows how to "move close but not too close", as in Paulmyr's story, then he arguably is also a pretty good woodsman with regards to turkey hunting.

Anyway, why would a great caller need to move in the woods, shouldn't the turkeys just come charging in to his call?   

Based on that criteria, I don't think a great caller has been born yet