How a gobbler drums

[ChesterCopperpot]

I remember listening to a Lovett Williams recording a long time ago where he was talking about drumming and he said that while he was unsure how exactly they made the sound he was fairly certain it wasn't a vocalization. He believed it had something to do with a vibration of feathers, I think. Anyhow, I always wondered why he didn't think it was a vocalization. I believed it probably was. Well a bird I was on this season proved me wrong and this is how. Bird drops within about 50yds of me off the roost and I can see him but don't have a shot. I watch him gobble and strut and drum for about an hour and a half constantly. Bird drummed more than any I've ever encountered, at times only drumming. Well at different points the bird drummed WHILE gobbling. I watched him gobble and while that sound was taking place the zoom sound of the drum was also occurring at the same time. I'm still not wholly convinced it can't be taking place internally, but what I do know for sure is that it's not a vocalization, at least not in the way we'd normally think. Still never encountered a definitive answer from scientists about the origin of sound. What are y'all's thoughts?


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[btomlin]

I have no idea how he does it, but I'm sure glad he has it figured out. 

[FLGobstopper]

I've read that as well from Lovett Williams and I'm certainly not one to argue with him. However, my guess is it might also have something to do with the air sac inflating and the somehow control of that. If you ever watch a video of a ruffed grouse drum it seems the source is certainly from them flapping their wings, ruffing their feathers and then inflating their air sac at the end. I think the drum is a combination of that but more to do with the air bladder.

My theory is the spit is them taking air in and the drum comes as the bladder compresses as they strut and makes a base kind of sound. But, that's just my theory and would love to know what it really is.

[KentuckyHeadhunter]

I have no idea how he does it, but I'm sure glad he has it figured out. 

That answer made me laugh.  Good one.  The drumming is internal and is a forced burp of air. 

[Turkeyman]

Well...Lovett Williams was a renowned biologist but if you knew him, as I did, he also thought very highly of himself to the point of being arrogant. Regarding his analysis of drumming he was totally incorrect. Drumming has nothing to do with feather vibration but is totally vocal. Anyone that has observed multiple birds doing so knows this. Many years ago...preseason while scouting...I called in a jake. It was a very cold morning and as he passed by, drumming, I could see the vapor coming out of his mouth during the Chhhkk followed by the Harommnn. Even though they give a bit of a shake to their feathers when they do the Chhhkk no sound is emitted by the feathers as a result. All sounds are vocal. Absolutely no way can you manipulate feathers to make that sound.

[catman529]

It is internal...feathers can't produce that low frequency. I don't know if it's the crop, the vocal chords, or somewhere in the birds guts, but it's definitely an internally produced sound.

Just compare the sound on your cell phone to the sound of a subwoofer in a box. The sub needs the box to produce the deep tones. Feathers ain't gonna make that drumming sound, although they do shake when the bird drums.


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[ChesterCopperpot]

I've read that as well from Lovett Williams and I'm certainly not one to argue with him. However, my guess is it might also have something to do with the air sac inflating and the somehow control of that. If you ever watch a video of a ruffed grouse drum it seems the source is certainly from them flapping their wings, ruffing their feathers and then inflating their air sac at the end. I think the drum is a combination of that but more to do with the air bladder.

My theory is the spit is them taking air in and the drum comes as the bladder compresses as they strut and makes a base kind of sound. But, that's just my theory and would love to know what it really is.

You and me kind of have the same theory, and likewise mine comes from thinking of ruffed grouse. The bird mentioned above never spit and drummed together. For about an hour and a half he just drummed and gobbled (as said, sometimes at the same time). After that he only spit. No gobbling. No drumming. Just strutting around spitting like a manager in a dugout. Bird changed the way I thought about those two sounds.


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[Turkeyman]

Guys...don't even think about it. Just read mine and Catman529's posts and let it go. It's TOTALLY VOCAL. If you disagree the just go out and hear/observe birds drumming. Subject closed.

[ChesterCopperpot]

Guys...don't even think about it. Just read mine and Catman529's posts and let it go. It's TOTALLY VOCAL. If you disagree the just go out and hear/observe birds drumming. Subject closed.

Catman didn't say it was vocal. He said he thought it was internal. I agree with that. It can't be vocal if a bird is capable of gobbling and drumming at the same time which I observed (the whole point of the OP). I seriously doubt you've observed more birds drumming than the biologists who still can't pinpoint the cause. That to say, all are theories. Yours just as valid as mine, but theories just the same.


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[Gooserbat]

I don't know exactly how but I've seen it, heard it, and felt it enough to know it's vocal and if he does it in front of me very long I'll let the air out of him.

[ChesterCopperpot]

I don't know exactly how but I've seen it, heard it, and felt it enough to know it's vocal and if he does it in front of me very long I'll let the air out of him.

I guess we need to define what we mean by vocal. Do we mean that sound comes from his mouth? That's how I meant vocal in the context of this post. And in that case I know it's inaccurate as the bird I observed gobbled and drummed simultaneously. Not once but multiple times over an extended period. Not one sound right before the other, or one sound right after. Simultaneous. Cold enough and close enough I could see his breath when he gobbled, and I know for a fact the two sounds were taking place at the same time.


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[Ihuntoldschool]

Turkeyman and catman nailed it.
Spot on about Lovett Williams and his arrogance too I might add.

[ChesterCopperpot]

Turkeyman and catman nailed it.
Spot on about Lovett Williams and his arrogance too I might add.

They're not saying the same thing so I'm confused. Turkeyman says its vocal as in he saw the breath come out of a bird's mouth (although by his description it sounds like the breath was with regard to the spit and not the drum), while Catman said he believes it's internal in nature (which I absolutely agree with). I didn't know Lovett. Might have been an arrogant a$$hole for all I know, but that has no bearing on my question other than to have stated what he hypothesized. I don't agree with him. I think it's internal. Not anything to do with feathers. Not vocal out of the mouth either, but internal. Imagine your stomach growling while you're talking, one guttural and one vocal. All I know for certain after what I witnessed multiple times is that the drum zoom most certainly doesn't come out of its mouth.


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[Greg Massey]

This is what he does.... when a gobbler spits he forces air out in a burst. You can actually see spit come out of the beak of the gobbler. Then the drum follows instantly. The air of the drum is also forced out the body like he is exhaling. The vibration comes from deep within the chest. It's not really known if that vibrate comes from their throat or from their chest.

[Jbird22]

IMO, it's 100% vocal. If you've ever heard a turkey gobble up close and personal, you should have heard the deep sound at the back end of the gobble (on an Eastern in the deep south). I believe whatever it is that produces that deep sound is what produces the drum. Two things I can tell you for a fact, #1. I can hear drumming very well AND #2. I'm thankful that I can.