Animal Vets--Any Way Around Them?

[gatrapper]

It doesn't matter what vet I take my dogs to, they are always finding a new way to up the bill.

I have had my dogs on heart since I got them, but they constantly make me pay some crazy fee to test for heart worm before they'll write my dog a prescription for their heart worm meds.

Is there any way to work around a vet and prescriptions? Can I order it online without having to jump through a bunch of hoops?

[howl]

Buy ivermectin paste or gel at feed n seed. Sold for horses. Beagle vgets pea size. 80 pound lab stripe long as thumb. If you have a lot of dogs get a bottle. Dose .01 cc per ten pounds. Takes a lot of dogs to use up a bottle before expiration.

No need to use anything in winter.

Prices are up because people are dosing themselves for king flu but still lots cheaper than vet.

[Southerngobbler]

I'm no expert on this but I have been told the stuff you get at the feed store covers everything but heart worms. If you want protection for heart worms you have to get a prescription. Don't think there's any way around it. Hopefully someone can recommend a better way. 

[bbcoach]

I'm no expert on this but I have been told the stuff you get at the feed store covers everything but heart worms. If you want protection for heart worms you have to get a prescription. Don't think there's any way around it. Hopefully someone can recommend a better way.

Ivermectin is a horse wormer that controls just about every internal worm that a dog can have and that includes heartworms.  My vet, who is around 60 years old now, turned me on to it 30 plus years ago.  Tractor Supply sells it and I've used it on my dogs for decades.  It takes care of heart, hook and round worms.  https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/farnam-ivercare-ivermectin-paste-187?cm_vc=-10005  https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/zimecterin-ivermectin-187-paste-021-oz?cm_vc=-10005  This wormer is for a 1250 lb horse but has measurements on the tube that can be used to reduce the dosage in 50 lb increments.  A tube of this will last a full year if you have 1 100lb dog or 2 years for a 50 lb dog.

[bbcoach]

Read the post above.  I feel your pain.  My older vet has sold his practice to 3 ladies, but continues to practice with them a couple days a week, and they are doing the exact same thing.  They are up charging their customers for services that are unnecessary as well.  They will perform a heartworm blood check and fecal for hook and round worms on an animal even though they have been on heart and worm medication for several years.  What gets me is this is standard practice for them even though the animal shows NO signs of lethargy or coughing and the heart and lungs are clear.  I specifically ask for him when I take my animals in for their yearly.  I'm not sure what I'll do when he decides to completely retire.  I'll have a fight on my hands but we will be discussing why they feel the need to GOUGE and Perform Unnecessary tests that come back NEGATIVE all the time.

[Ihuntoldschool]

Vets are just in it for the money. Seriously they are worse than our Doctors.  Heartworm cases are pretty damn rare in most areas but the vet won't tell you that. The preventatives the vets give are not only expensive but also harsh and can actually harm your dog over time. I use cleanheart and you can buy it online without a presentation.Memorial Day weekend until Xmas, works for me. No need in the winter time. Heartworm scare is way overblown by vets for the sake of money. Do your research,cases are rare and it's not a death sentence. Heakthy dogs will kill the infection with just their own immune system. You don't need heartworm test unless dof shows symptoms.  This is a case where the preventatives don't outweigh the risk.  If heartworm wasreally half as bad as vets want you to believe we wouldn't have any wolves or coyotes around. Save your money.

[howl]

I'm no expert on this but I have been told the stuff you get at the feed store covers everything but heart worms. If you want protection for heart worms you have to get a prescription. Don't think there's any way around it. Hopefully someone can recommend a better way.

The active ingredient in Heartguard is ivermectin. Fun fact: everything a vet can give was developed for people or livestock before it was adapted to pets. Lot more money in people and livestock.

[g8rvet]

LOL.  There is so much incorrect in this thread it is laughable. 

First, please do not use the horse paste if you are going to use ivermectin as a sole preventative.  Use the injectable sold for cattle, but use it orally.  It works fine and is cheaper per pet anyways.  0.1cc per 30 lbs prevents heartworms.  0.1cc per 10 lbs prevents heartworms and intestinal parasites.  Just not tapeworms, but they are not dangerous and if your dog gets those, there are over the counter meds for those.  DO NOT use ivermectin in collies, Aussies, Border Collies.  They have a high incidence of a gene mutation which allows the chemical to cross the blood brain barrier and can kill your dog.  Do not use it any dog if they have a reaction - ie dilated pupils, staggering, etc.  All these recommendations are at your own risk.  Consult a veterinarian for specific advice for your pet. 

Heartworms are rare?  That's rich.  They might be rare where you are, but I diagnose 0-5 cases per week.  Most of which are easily and inexpensively treated if caught early-you know, by yearly heartworm exams.  I think I had like 6 cases this past week.  And healthy dogs do not kill the infection.  The adult heartworms have a lifespan of 6-7 years.  If the dog is not infected with more worms and they do not die of the heartworms, they will clear on their own.  Some or a lot of damage can be done in the meantime, it just depends.  There are lots of dogs that have immunity from getting them in the first place.  Only 60% of dogs in Florida not on preventative will get heartworms.  I have seen dogs never on prevention that never got the disease and I have seen dogs dying at 18 months of age with caval syndrome (massive load of heartworms blocking the main vessel vena cava).  Wolves and coyotes can and do get them, but their resistance is higher due to natural selection.  Our pet's natural selection was not selected for so many generations, they are more susceptible.  I have seen an owner get heartworm meds for 2 of their dogs and share it with the other 2 without us knowing.  Killed one and the other was very very sick for a week.  I know, because we did the necropsy and submitted the tissues and the "money grubbing" heartworm medicine company paid for it, because they wanted to be sure it was not a bad reaction to the medicine.  I can tell anyone more about that if they are interested. 

As far as price gouging, then don't pay.  We package our yearly exam and vaccines so that there is a yearly discount, so a heartworm test and fecal is included in the package and it actually saves the owner's money over just coming in and getting the vaccines and exam.  No stupid plan (like the doc in a box practices do) - everyone that gets a full yearly gets a full discount-a guy last week actually did not need a heartworm test for another couple months, but it saved him money to get it with the yearly, so he did.   

In the state of Florida, in order to prescribe heartworm prevention, a prescription drug, by law, a yearly exam is required, by law and it is considered within the custom of practice to include a yearly heartworm test (civil liabilty-not legal).  I will not gamble my license or civil liability to save anyone $38.   Get it somewhere else or don't use it. 

"Vets are in it for the money". Yep.  No apologies here.  We have to pay our bills, pay our employees, purchase lab, xray, surgical equipment, pay licensing fees, etc.  In my little practice 15 families rely on my business to put food on their table.  It is a business.  Do you get a paycheck?  Why don't you go pave the road for the county for free because you love roads?  Why don't you be an accountant for free because you love numbers.  Stupid statement.   I see people like you all the time begging for my help after they have messed around and almost killed their pet.  And then blame me if I can't save them or worse, I can save them but they don't want to pay my fees.  This stuff used to bother me, but not anymore.  I have people begging to get in, pay my fees and tell me we are very affordable and thank us profusely as they are writing their checks.  Some people actually do consider their pets important enough to spend money on.  That is who I enjoy helping.  I give discounts every day, but never to people like some of y'all.  People who appreciate what we do and try their best to save their pets.  Many of whom can't afford the best, but we both still try to help their pets.

I have 32 years of practice in May and still enjoy what I do.  I'm not and never will be rich, but I make an honest living from people that appreciate my knowledge and skills. 

The best way around a vet is don't own a pet or don't give a rats arse if it lives or dies. Problem solved.  Some of you guys are just whining cause you want something for nothing and want someone with an education and expenses to do it for you for free.  Good luck with that. 

Oh and one more thing, money made on selling heartworm and flea meds is why I can do an ACL surgery for under $1500.   The profitable portions of our business like yearlies and meds pay the way for our discounted spays and extensive surgeries that are pennies on the dollars compared to what we should get paid for them.  But I know some of y'all don't care about that.  You just want yours, cheap, every step of the way.   

[g8rvet]

Oh, one more thought.  Heartworm prevention is a bit of a misnomer with drugs like ivermectin.  They do no prevent heartworm larval infection as such, they kill the larval stage that enters your dog via mosquito bite.  As long as you give it once a month (actually every 40 days) you kill all the larva before they enter the next stage of maturation that are more resistant to drugs - ivermectin still kills a high percent of them for another 40-60 days, just not 99.9%+, like if given monthly.  It works backwards, not forwards.  So it PREVENTS your dog from getting adult heartworms, which is what causes the disease. 

[g8rvet]

I'm no expert on this but I have been told the stuff you get at the feed store covers everything but heart worms. If you want protection for heart worms you have to get a prescription. Don't think there's any way around it. Hopefully someone can recommend a better way.

The active ingredient in Heartguard is ivermectin. Fun fact: everything a vet can give was developed for people or livestock before it was adapted to pets. Lot more money in people and livestock.

Not a fact at all.  It may have had more truth 30 years ago, but I can name 15 drugs that were developed exclusively for dogs and/or cats with no human or livestock applications.  I can name 2 that were developed for and tested in dogs that later had human uses discovered.  Funded 100% by animal industry, not the human side. 

[g8rvet]

If you are in the southeast, your pet needs heartworm meds year round.  One warm day is all it takes to have the mosquitos come out. 

[howl]

I'm no expert on this but I have been told the stuff you get at the feed store covers everything but heart worms. If you want protection for heart worms you have to get a prescription. Don't think there's any way around it. Hopefully someone can recommend a better way.

The active ingredient in Heartguard is ivermectin. Fun fact: everything a vet can give was developed for people or livestock before it was adapted to pets. Lot more money in people and livestock.

Not a fact at all.  It may have had more truth 30 years ago, but I can name 15 drugs that were developed exclusively for dogs and/or cats with no human or livestock applications.  I can name 2 that were developed for and tested in dogs that later had human uses discovered.  Funded 100% by animal industry, not the human side.

So name them. Might be interesting.

[Crghss]

I agree with g8rvet. "Vets are in it for the money" is a silly statement. Unless you're volunteering some place like a local food bank you're in it for the money.

[howl]

 

If you are in the southeast, your pet needs heartworm meds year round.  One warm day is all it takes to have the mosquitos come out.

No because the ivermectin would kill them before they developed to be a problem.  The drugs are bad for the animals, they're just not as bad as the ailments if used wisely. We're not giving heartworm med when it isn't necessary.

[bbcoach]

Let's get back to the original question gr8vet.  You talk about discounts for what most feel are unnecessary tests.  If we bring a dog in for a yearly so we can continue to treat our dogs for heartworms and we are RESPONSIBLE owners and give our dog their monthly treatments, WHY the additional costs when we have done our due diligence and the animal has ZERO lethargy, ZERO coughing and lungs and heart are clear?  In our eyes, discounts or no discounts, these tests are TOTALLY unnecessary just so we bring our animals in for a YEARLY WELLNESS CHECK $$$, get UNNECESSARY tests $$$, so we get a blessing from our vets for another year of heartworm treatment.  Many of us have multiple animals and costs add up exponentially for what we feel is a WARM FUSSY negative test year after year.  Isn't this Strong Armed medicine?  Educate us on WHY these charges are justified???  Our concern is if we just rollover and pay what we believe to be a NON VALUE ADDED charge now, will this continue on the same lines as OUR health care system and it become TOO expense to own pets for many or even worse have to buy pet insurance or not treat them at all?