Education Time

[bbcoach]

I've been on this Great site for over 10 years now and have learned so much from ALL of you.  Recently I'm seeing more and more people asking about their tight patterns from 0 to 20 yards.  I wanted to start a thread for them and have the rest of you educate them on their tight patterns.  Here's my take on this.  Years ago, and I'm 63, turkeys were taken with #4 lead, fixed full or modified choked 12 gauges and 2 3/4 inch shells and you were limited to 30 to 40 yard shots.  With the advent of 3 and 3 1/2 inch guns, very constricting screw in TURKEY chokes and the shot shell technology we have now, patterns have gotten SUPER tight from 0 to 20, for extended range purposes.  IMO, you can't have both.  Yes there is a happy median but each of us has to evaluate our hunting styles, the places we hunt and know what our guns do at short, medium and longer ranges.  If you are hunting woods, then 2 3/4 lead will get the job done.  If you are hunting a little more open area, your pattern can be a little tighter.  I believe TECHNOLOGY has given us some great inventions but it has DEFINITELY created plenty of headaches as well.  Personally, I want him in my face so I stay away from the LATEST AND GREATEST!!!  Thoughts Everyone?

[fallhnt]

I don't gun hunt much. Still use lead 6 upland game loads,3in, and a Remington turkey choke.

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[Greg Massey]

The old guns of yesterday have evolved into the new guns of today. We all look for the best performance from the guns, chokes and shell's that we decided to shoot. Yes i'm sure in choosing were your going to hunt could play a very small part, but i don't necessarily set my gun up for woods or fields. I set my gun to get the most performance from the shell that i have decided to shoot out of that particular gun. That's one of the reason's i have more than one turkey gun shooting different loads. Were i'm hunting depends on the gun and gauge i decided to carry. Sometimes i carry a 20 ga. shooting Winchester long beards number 6 and i carry 20 gauge shooting Federal Hw 7.. both of these guns have different choke restrictions. I would say most guys setup there guns for close and farther shot's. With the shortage of ammo, i could see this being a problem for some in patterning guns. I would just hate to see bunch of cripple birds because of all this ammo shortage.

[tracker#1]

Getting older also and decided to rest my 12s and try a 20. I built an 870 20 gauge for myself and daughter, adjustable stock. I then started hand-rolling my own shells with the help of some of you on this forum. I was amazed at the patterns I was getting with #8s TSS loads @ 40 yards. I too was also concerned with shoe-top to 25-yard shots being too tight of a core. So this year I picked up an o/u 20 gauge and solved that problem. I'm running tight chokes, a .560 and .562 bottom (shoulder) barrel, and a .596 top barrel for shoe-top to closer shots with cheaper lead #6s. I'm liking this setup a lot...easy to tote along.

[Tom007]

Great thread. With all said above, I am surprised more people don't hunt with over-unders. I like mine, it gives you the best of both worlds. 2 chokes, 2 shot size options. With the click of the safety, you can cover 0-20 yards with one barrel, and 20 to your longer shots out to 40. Especially if you are an open area hunter using decoys, the over-under has you covered. It is so true that very few single barrel guns if any can have a not-so tight pattern 0-20, and a tight , covering pattern for the longer shots. There is a trade off if you use a single barrel gun unless your aim in close is perfect. Be safe,...great thoughts....

[Dtrkyman]

I so wanted to build a sxs turkey gun, just seems to be too many issues with both barrels shooting the same point.

My 20ga came with a 580, the 10 yard pattern is tight but not crazy, If I do my part it's a non issue, I have killed several at 10-15. 

Considered going to a straight full but like so many I actually went to a .555, close pattern is not that much different and I like the hot core for the longer shots.  Killed one at longer than average last year in MI.  38 yard i think it was, looked like some one hit that bird upside the head with a 9 iron!

I figure if I miss a close shot that's on me, so far so good!

[Ozarks Hillbilly]

Great thread. With all said above, I am surprised more people don't hunt with over-unders. I like mine, it gives you the best of both worlds. 2 chokes, 2 shot size options. With the click of the safety, you can cover 0-20 yards with one barrel, and 20 to your longer shots out to 40. Especially if you are an open area hunter using decoys, the over-under has you covered. It is so true that very few single barrel guns if any can have a not-so tight pattern 0-20, and a tight , covering pattern for the longer shots. There is a trade off if you use a single barrel gun unless your aim in close is perfect. Be safe,...great thoughts....

Tom007 has about as close as you can get to the do all turkey gun IMO with his O/U.
My turkey guns since the switch to turkey specific screw in chokes years ago have always fallen into the 20 to 40 yards category.

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[grayfox]

Good thread! I love all this new technology with the newer tighter chokes & better shells allowing us to kill them farther but I've seen on hunting shows & videos more turkeys missed at close range than you could shake a stick at. I really think hunters especially newcomers get caught up in this new trend of super tight patterns & it has caused many of them more harm than help.

[Meleagris gallopavo]

I know what my gun will do with the shells I'm using at a given range or range zone, which is 20-40 yards.  Obviously I may have to shoot one within 20 yards, but I really won't take the shot unless I know the bird is within 40.  I passed on a bird last year that was just out of MY range and one this week that was within range but I could not get what I consider a clear shot.  I shoot 3.5" TSS using a Mossberg 835 with an Indian Creek .675 choke.  I have a Vortex Venom 3 MOA sight.  The red dot being dialed in tight is more necessary for the really close shots.  So I'm going to add optics to the equation of this discussion.


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[RutnNStrutn]

I too was also concerned with shoe-top to 25-yard shots being too tight of a core. So this year I picked up an o/u 20 gauge and solved that problem. I'm running tight chokes, a .560 and .562 bottom (shoulder) barrel, and a .596 top barrel for shoe-top to closer shots with cheaper lead #6s. I'm liking this setup a lot...easy to tote along.

Sounds like a great solution!!
I have a friend who's gun shoots quarter sized patterns at 20 yards, causing him to miss a few birds. Now he tries to shoot birds at 30 to 40 yards. If they get inside of 30, he shoots them where the neck meets the body, that way he's assured of hitting the gobbler even if it moves it's head.


Sent from deep in the woods where the critters roam.

[RutnNStrutn]

So I'm going to add optics to the equation of this discussion.

Thank you!! I was going to do the same.
Personally, I've been hung up for years on finding the best choke/load combination I can get. I'm not sure why. I guess I've just been intrigued with the advancing technology.
With that said, 80% of my gobblers have been taken at 20 yards or less. The rest were between 25 to 40 yards. I've only taken 2 gobblers over 40 yards. They were both at 54 yards, and I misjudged the distance on each.
My current set ups are:
An 870 Super Mag 12 ga with an Indian Creek choke, shooting 3-1/2" Apex Small Town Blend (a #7-1/2 & #9 duplex load). It is deadly out to 60 yards.
A H&R Topper 20 ga with an Indian Creek choke, shooting 3" Apex Small Town Blend. It is deadly out to 50 yards. It also weighs in at 4 lbs, 12 ozs!!
Both are topped with Trijicon Dual Illumination (tritium and fiber optic) RMR green dots. Due to the optics, I am comfortable shooting inside 20 yards.
I guess that performance is as good as it gets, at least for me, without going to absurd lengths to shoot beyond 60 yards. At that point, why not just use a rifle?

Sent from deep in the woods where the critters roam.

[Tom007]

Great thread. With all said above, I am surprised more people don't hunt with over-unders. I like mine, it gives you the best of both worlds. 2 chokes, 2 shot size options. With the click of the safety, you can cover 0-20 yards with one barrel, and 20 to your longer shots out to 40. Especially if you are an open area hunter using decoys, the over-under has you covered. It is so true that very few single barrel guns if any can have a not-so tight pattern 0-20, and a tight , covering pattern for the longer shots. There is a trade off if you use a single barrel gun unless your aim in close is perfect. Be safe,...great thoughts....

Tom007 has about as close as you can get to the do all turkey gun IMO with his O/U.
My turkey guns since the switch to turkey specific screw in chokes years ago have always fallen into the 20 to 40 yards category.

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Thx, lots of great doubles on this site. The picture thread has some real beauties. I still do use semi's and pumps, I just try and find a solid, no holes pattern that works at all yardages. A no-hole/even pattern is really better than cluster tight. Takes lots of experimenting to find them. Be safe

[bbcoach]

One other point that I believe plays into this thread is what are your guys thoughts on crappy triggers on turkey guns.  My 835 (pre LPA trigger) came with a trigger that was over 6 lbs and the creep was terrible.  I had mine cleaned up to 3 lbs and removed the creep.  No more anticipating the gun going off unexpectedly or pulling off that head and neck.  It's so easy to pattern our guns in a controlled environment like a Lead sled but what happens when we touch off a 3 1/2, with a crappy trigger, rested on one knee.

[Meleagris gallopavo]

One other point that I believe plays into this thread is what are your guys thoughts on crappy triggers on turkey guns.  My 835 (pre LPA trigger) came with a trigger that was over 6 lbs and the creep was terrible.  I had mine cleaned up to 3 lbs and removed the creep.  No more anticipating the gun going off unexpectedly or pulling off that head and neck.  It's so easy to pattern our guns in a controlled environment like a Lead sled but what happens when we touch off a 3 1/2, with a crappy trigger, rested on one knee.

Good point!  I had to work on my 835 trigger to get it right.  The creep was aggravating.  Having a light, crisp trigger is important to me.


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[Gooserbat]

I shoot tss and a . 665 jebs for that reason.  My pattern is volleyball size at 20 and kills way farther than the magical 40 yards.  I have a friend who shoots a factory full and tss.  He's got to try to miss up close and can kill way out there.  In the beginnings of tss loadings that was the concept but like with all other things turkey it turned into the tighter the better and the chase for the highest count/10" was born.