Trapping and Habitat

[falltoms]

I love to trap. It undoubtedly does help. Unfortunately the last few years the fur market has been terrible. Which means fewer trappers and more predators. I still trap, I feel it's an obligation of mine to help protect the wild turkey, and will do so, no matter what the market does

[owlhoot]

Good point El Pavo.  I think your best point is what to do when habitat management is out of the equation, or at least moved way down the list.  Much harder answer and one that probably no one can accurately answer (there will never likely be any studies on it, no money there for research). I think I am guilty of thinking more about the massive public areas that I hunt instead of smaller areas as well. A big difference in trapping on 20,000 acres vs 600,000 acres. 

Owlhoot,
"Missouri Conservation reports 1997-98 over 200,000 raccoons trapped. In 2018-19 22,562 raccoons trapped. With 25 years of steady decline.".  Are you saying there was less trapping done or that fewer were actually caught?  If so, is half as much trapping being done with 90% less trapped or is actually 90% less trapping being done?  Is the 25 year decline in raccoons trapped or raccoons attempted to be trapped I guess is my question. Because that would likely be two very different cause and effects.

In my state, there is an oral vaccination program for raccoons for rabies control in certain areas (not to save the raccoons but to lessen the transmission to people and domestic animals).  Would make sense that there would be a longer survival of raccoons in that area and a greater reduction of nest success. As the area is semi urban/semi rural, not sure if anyone has looked at that, but I will ask.

Actually trapped.
Lots less trapping being done. 1980-81 13,248 trapping permits sold in state of Missouri.  6,956 2018-19.
this is just trapping. 2019 Missouri issued 41 fur buyer permits.
Which leaves out a bigger factor. Raccoon hunting, which i have no official numbers on. So no science.
A lot less of that for sure. Average price 27.50 reported  during 1980-1982 and anyone with a dog or spotlight shot raccoons in NE Missouri. Personally got 25 for little raccoons and up to 50 for big raccoons. Now you would be lucky to find someone with a good coon dog. Prices for fur are down so not many hunters left. And would have to say from talking to people that coyotes, foxes and bobcats are more on the trapping hit lists than the raccoons.
Last few years I have seen more raccoons than turkeys.

[pdaugherty]

For what my 2 cents may be worth I can say that on my lease trapping has made a huge difference. I have kept meticulous notes and records over the past 3-4 years and I fully believe that my poult recruitment numbers have increased because of this. Do I still continue to manage and improve habitat and food sources? I absolutely do, but I must say that when I look at my average poults per hen and brood sizes increasing with the implementation of trapping I can only conclude that it is beneficial. On average I remove 8-10 bobcats a season, 10-12 coyotes, 30 plus coons, and a handful of possums and foxes.

The main point with the trapping is that you have to continue to do it. You can't trap one year and take two off. As it was mentioned before by other members these predators quickly move back into an area that you have removed others from. I live in AL and I am lucky enough to be able to trap coyotes and coons year round. With the implementation of legal baiting in my state I have seen our coon population sky rocket. With corn and feed available OCT-FEB our coons have to be kept in check by trapping.

This may not be the answer for everyone but I can with out a doubt say it is for my lease. Good luck to everyone this spring

[g8rvet]

How many acres are you taking that many predators?

[bossgobbler]

I can say first hand that trapping coons makes an enormous difference. In 3 years I have trapped over 200 coons in a small 100ft circle. I'd say another 50 possums. The thing that I believe is overlooked the most in having a negative impact on turkey populations is the Cooper's hawk. Those are some phenomenal hunting hawks. One summer we had 42 poults from several hens. 7 poults made it to adulthood. Those hawks would pick them off everyday all day long. It was devastating. Our hawk population is booming. I hope something changes.

I've done a lot of habitat work and trapping to help build our turkey population. With a bad/cold/wet late spring/early summer, many nest predators, dwindling habitat, and some mean aerial hunters like the Cooper's hawks I am amazed any turkeys ever survive. People better start catching on before it's too late. If the wild turkey means anything to you and you'd like to pass it on to your kids and grandkids please do all you can to help the population. I know I will!

[GobbleNut]

Yep, people seem to overlook those avian predators, as well as the burgeoning crow/raven populations as being an issue.  Unfortunately, with hawks, falcons, eagles, and such being protected like they are,...and even crows and ravens in some places,...that presents some problems that probably call for some "creative" solutions.

[Dtrkyman]

The meateater podcast last spring the biologist talked about how effective great horned owls are at picking off gobblers early in the spring when they first start gobbling.

If anyone has not listened to that I highly recommend it, I believe it was Dr. Michael Chamberlain?  Amazing content and solid ideas on how to increase populations.

[Ozarks Hillbilly]

I have no personal proof other than reading that Barred owls will light on the same limb as young roosted pults at night. Supposedly they will nudge them to the end of the limb or off of it and the owl catches them as they fall or as they hit the ground. 

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[nativeks]

Yep, people seem to overlook those avian predators, as well as the burgeoning crow/raven populations as being an issue.  Unfortunately, with hawks, falcons, eagles, and such being protected like they are,...and even crows and ravens in some places,...that presents some problems that probably call for some "creative" solutions.

Im currently enrolled in a habitat program to help ground nesting birds. They have me removing raptor perches which is most of the trees in certain areas.

[Paulmyr]

Just got finished listening to another podcast with Dr chamberlain on the Southern Sportsman. Very good discussion on a variety of subjects involving the wild turkey.  Hunting pressure, habitat concerns, breeding cycles, predator control and more. Much better than the meat eater podcast. The hosts in my opinion aren't as dense as the Meateater guy. Very well thought out questions and answers.
Here's a link

https://thesouthernoutdoorsmen.libsyn.com/ep-225-turkey-gps-movement-studies-turkey-fact-vs-fiction-with-dr-mike-chamberlain

[dzsmith]

Im not a skeptic to trapping because I was trapping before it was cool.  All I have to say is.....you cant out trap over harvested turkeys areas......

[owlhoot]

Im not a skeptic to trapping because I was trapping before it was cool.  All I have to say is.....you cant out trap over harvested turkeys areas......

Ok . trapping should be one of the things that should help. Hunting predators should help.  Who is overharvesting the hens? The poults?
Hunters are taking their share of toms for sure.  Surely in some areas there are more tags available than toms to fill them.
Some states have some really long seasons, all day hunting and 3-5 tags, dang.
Just the way it is i guess ? Here in Missouri we have none of that plus tons of hunters, well over twice the hunters as say Alabama with the same estimate populations of turkeys. So late April start, 3 weeks long , 2 tags and close at 1:00 pm.
And still have dwindling populations.

[dzsmith]

Im not a skeptic to trapping because I was trapping before it was cool.  All I have to say is.....you cant out trap over harvested turkeys areas......

Ok . trapping should be one of the things that should help. Hunting predators should help.  Who is overharvesting the hens? The poults?
Hunters are taking their share of toms for sure.  Surely in some areas there are more tags available than toms to fill them.
Some states have some really long seasons, all day hunting and 3-5 tags, dang.
Just the way it is i guess ? Here in Missouri we have none of that plus tons of hunters, well over twice the hunters as say Alabama with the same estimate populations of turkeys. So late April start, 3 weeks long , 2 tags and close at 1:00 pm.
And still have dwindling populations.

we have exactly what you described. more tags than toms to fill, long season, large bag limits. Im pro trapping by all means. but the social media push the last 2 years has made it out like trapping is a secret weapon or the barney bag of magic tricks....when its just not. I  know many people who have had great success with their turkeys by trapping...or they trapped one year and saw turkeys the next year and assume it is soley because of there trapping efforts which is unlikely to be honest. With that said, ive seen places trapped to extinction dang near....and it didn't help poult survival because there was nothing to breed or be bred to begin with. Its not magic. lots of things have to be in place for hens to have success with the #1 thing being having turkeys to begin with. Trapping is more like preventive maintenance than anything...buts its being sold as gospel salvation. This probably makes me seem like im encouraging people not to trap because of the inevitable. Im not...I would just like people to know the truth before they trap and so they wont get discouraged and quit trapping when they don't see turkeys popping up by the droves. Id like to prevent that.

[nativeks]

Just got finished listening to another podcast with Dr chamberlain on the Southern Sportsman. Very good discussion on a variety of subjects involving the wild turkey.  Hunting pressure, habitat concerns, breeding cycles, predator control and more. Much better than the meat eater podcast. The hosts in my opinion aren't as dense as the Meateater guy. Very well thought out questions and answers.
Here's a link

https://thesouthernoutdoorsmen.libsyn.com/ep-225-turkey-gps-movement-studies-turkey-fact-vs-fiction-with-dr-mike-chamberlain

Thanks. Its a rainy day so I listened to the whole thing while making some bee swarm traps in my shop.

[bwhana]

Had a conversation with a friend today about how SC is basically still doing nothing to help their population, despite hosting the headquarters of the NWTF I might add. They just keep saying they need to do something, but have done nothing that has shown a positive effect.  Their own data shows the decline everyone has mentioned, since the 80's, yet the DNR guys keep their jobs, despite their continued failure.  Trapping can't hurt and quality habitat loss is probably the biggest issue of all, but doing nothing is not an answer.
https://www.dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/turkey/2019BroodSurvey.html