Fall/Winter Turkey hunt advice/thoughts

[g8rvet]

So, I went hunting this weekend. Only the 2nd and third time (both this weekend) I have hunted them outside of spring.  I killed a few as a young'un during deer season, but they were just targets of opportunity. 

I knew the areas they roosted and the areas they fed through where I was hunting (in the spring anyways).  So had a good idea where to start. 

First day, was talked out of going where I wanted to and set up in a clear cut surrounded by bottoms.  Nothing.  About 10am we went to my first choice.  Sat up and sure enough, with some quiet calling, hear comes some birds.  We had them talking and the boss hen was above me on the ridge, calling the birds up below her.  We were talking back and had them all riled up.  A jake came walking straight to me but never offered a clear shot.  All jakes and hens in the brood.  They came up near where my nephew was and raised a ruckus for a while. 

Day 2.  New spot we knew held birds.  We set up along a ridge, almost to the top, but not over, alongside a river bank.  After sitting down and day breaks, we had birds all around us tree yelping.  We join in and just try to sound like 2 more birds.  We watch three fly down to our right and hear the rest pitch straight down, below us.  Same as the day before, boss hen and several birds doing keekee runs, the longest I have ever heard.  After it is obvious the hen is not coming to us, we head down, this time to bust them up, but the drop off was too steep and an impassable creek between us.  We went around where they were headed and got in front, but they either turned up the feeder creek or never got to us. 

So my questions. 

Day 1:  Assuming jakes are on the menu, should we have busted the flock once I was out of the game? My nephew could have done it easily from his position. I could not as it was thick and I was behind them.  We decided that would have been best. 

Day2: We tried it on Day 2, but the terrain prevented us from a bum rush flock bust. 

Either day, is getting in front of them a viable option, or is it likely the boss hen is going to most times lead them away, no matter how much we sound like another boss? 

Day 1 was definite brood flock, but day 2 was mixed, nephew was pretty sure the birds that flew up the creek were gobblers-the birds were spread out over a very large distance. We could see into that bottom and pretty sure they went our into the chop.  After the gobs left, we decided it was likely it was another brood around us.  Would you have also tried to guess their direction and try to wait or pushed forward and made something happen from the way they were headed?

Got to hear some totally awesome turkey sounds, every sound a bird makes except a gobble.  had a blast.  Was very fun.

In happier news, we stumbled on a heck of a wood duck hole. 

Would just like to hear some thoughts on tactics.  Dogs are not legal.

[ChesterCopperpot]

In my experience it is very hard to pull a fall/winter flock away from a dominant hen. Just tonight me and the wife fooled around with seven hens above the house and we got a few birds within 15yds or so with leaf scratching and clucking, but any time we tried to get louder she took over the conversation and pulled the group. At this point in the season they know who the boss is, they know her voice, and you're not pulling them away from that in my opinion. If there was a bird I really wanted to kill out of the group, or if I was just wanting to kill anything, I'd bust them up, particularly bust them up of an evening right before roost if I had that chance, with the plan of hunting those birds as they pulled back together the following morning. Otherwise I'd likely work the land and try to get out in front of them. And if that was my tactic I likely wouldn't make a call. They tough to get on this time of year so the fact y'all had those encounters is about as good as tagging them in my opinion.


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[GobbleNut]

Two thoughts:
First(and foremost in my opinion), if you are hunting hen/poult flocks, do not succumb to the temptation to shoot the "biggest turkey" that shows up.  Those are going to be the adult hens which have demonstrated the ability to successfully pull of clutches.  Leave those and shoot the young-of-the-year birds, which will generally be smaller in size than those adult hens.  Now, admittedly, there may be jakes in the group and they may appear to be larger, and they are fair game,...but be sure of your target and its potential impact on the future of resource if you shoot it.

Second, if hunting gobblers that are flocked up together, use gobbler yelps (coarse, monotone yelps) instead of hen yelps.  Flocked-up winter gobblers may ignore hen yelping but come running to gobbler yelps.

[eggshell]

It is very hard for a person on foot to get a proper bust on a flock. Most likely they will all go the same way and reassemble before ever making it to you. A real bust means birds going in 360 degrees exits. The further you can push them away from each other the better. If they fly up in tree just keep busting them farther apart.
I too avoid the "old hens" as they are brood proven. You can tell jakes if you get them close this time of year, it takes practice. Jakes will call with long series of course yelps and kee kee runs. I target gobblers in the fall and jakes. I have shot hens and try and pick out smaller younger ones, but it's been a few years since I shot a hen. When you have that boss hen come back on you hard then purr as hard and aggressive as you can.Hens like to fight as much or more than gobblers, you want to call her a slutty, trashy man stealing bitch in turkey language and she'll come to kick your arse and bring the flock along as an audience. If I'm hunting flocks I seldom bust them. I get in their path as much as possible. It's not so much calling in as it is steering them. Actually I have better luck calling in busted up gobbler flocks. If you bust a gobbler flock just figure it's going to be an hour or more for any action. You want to focus on the lone bird that flew off in a direction of his own. On gobblers I do a lot of yelping, but one call you must master is the Gobbler location cluck. Sometimes all you'll get in response is this course quick cluck. Then he'll slip in. I know a lot of guys get busted and never knew a bird was close. I have had days they act just like spring too.

Here's this years fall gobbler, the only response I got from him when he came in was one course cluck and then I spotted him slipping in. if I didn't know what to listen for I would have missed seeing him.

[g8rvet]

Thanks.  I think my ideas were pretty much what y'all mentioned, but you gave me new things to pay attention to.  I could have shot the boss hen, but held off for a jake.  Was very cool hearing that many keekee runs in a row.  heard more in two days than the rest of my hunting days.