Win. LB patterns too tight????

[lowoctane]

 
Clark: I so enjoy reading your posts! Your experience and candor is much appreciated on the topic. Nice to know you are involved in this crazy love affair we know as turkey hunting!!!

[allaboutshooting]

Clark: I so enjoy reading your posts! Your experience and candor is much appreciated on the topic. Nice to know you are involved in this crazy love affair we know as turkey hunting!!!

Thank you for the kind words. I've been "addicted" to the sport of turkey hunting for many years and hope to be able to continue for a few more.
Thanks again,
Clark

[Longshanks]

The majority of turkeys I have killed have been inside 30yds. Shooting a gun that patterns well only if the turkeys are at a further distance doesn't serve the purpose for me the majority of the time. Have harvested allot of turkeys inside 15yds and some inside 10yds. I just aim where the feathers start on the neck and it is lights out. A gun that shoots good patterns from 20yds-40yds with some room for error has been the most productive set up for myself and the clients I have guided over the years. Seen allot of misses with guns that shoot super tight patterns at 20-25yds. Interesting, I have never considered patterns for myself too tight until Win LB came along.

[Old Gobbler]

Why bother body shooting a gobbler .....it defeats the purpose .....

[BINK McCARTY]

Shoot some patterns with Win XX 3" 6's at 20 yds and Win LB's 3" 6's at 20 yds and post up the pics. Interested to see if anyone's results are different than mine. I've shot the LB's through 5 guns and different chokes and they are substantially tighter in the 15-20yd range than any other load. I put the entire pattern in a 8" circle several times at 40yds and A large number of patterns inside a 10" at 40. That's tight. That would just be out of my guns, other folks may have different results.

At this point, I've shot several hundreds of WLB shells, from the 1st batch to the current loads. I've shot the 1 3/4 & 1 7/8 oz 3" loads of #6s extensively and the #4s & #5s to a lesser extent. I've also shot some of all 3 sizes of the 3.5" but far fewer than the 3" versions.

These shells were designed as "extended range" shells and most efforts to get them to shoot larger patterns at ranges under 40 yards can be exercises in frustration. The early loads are exceptionally tight, even at 40 yards, as witnessed by the last 2 still target competitions when some of the 1st WLB shells that were loaded were shot at these events.

Many times, at least with some of the later loads, thinking has to be changed to open them up some. If the resin slug is not fractured or fractured completely, the choke must serve as the secondary source of fracturing the slug to help open up the patterns. Otherwise, the only way it will fracture is air pressure after it's exited the muzzle.

If you rely upon the choke as a secondary source of fracturing the slug, it must do so physically with some type of restriction or wad stopper action. A tighter e.d. may produce a more open pattern but please note the emphasis on the word may. Again, it's really all about the whole internal geometry of the choke.

Since we tend to think that more open chokes produce more open patterns, this flies in the face of what we've done with other shells in the past and it does not always work.

One of the most asked questions to me over the last year or so, is something like "How can I get a more open pattern with WLB shell?" After firing case after case of them, the very best answer that I know how to give is what I've just said here. it was designed as a long range shell and the best way to get more open patterns would be to use another shell, Hevi-13 for example, if most of your shots are under 40 yards and if you have concerns about missing a turkey at those ranges. Otherwise, you could spend a lot of time, energy and money trying to accomplish something that is very difficult if not impossible to achieve.

Thanks,
Clark

07.26.16 Correction of the word "not" to the word "note" in para #4

Clark ,can you recommend some combos? What I have currently is a SBE 2 w/ 24"bbl. Final Strut choke tubes in .640" , .650" , .655", TruGlo SSX .643" , and Ind.Creek .660"...ammo= 3.5" magblends, Fed. HW 3.5" #7 shot. Have not shot the Long Beard yet but I plan on trying #4, & #5s....also I have shot the H-13 3.5" #7 shot and put 336 in a 10" circle.....yes,I know it's a fantastic pattern but my concern is the velocity....only moving @ 1090 fps. When I shot them at a new piece of particle board I was picking some of the pellets out that were just half way in the board....others on here say I shouldn't be concerned....BUT I AM!!!! Because I want to flatten and kill quickly!!!! Amyhow,any advice would be mighty helpful!!!! And ifn you wouldn't mind , send your response to my email please!!!! binkbenelli@gmail.com . Thanks so much!!!

[Longshanks]

Shoot some patterns with Win XX 3" 6's at 20 yds and Win LB's 3" 6's at 20 yds and post up the pics. Interested to see if anyone's results are different than mine. I've shot the LB's through 5 guns and different chokes and they are substantially tighter in the 15-20yd range than any other load. I put the entire pattern in a 8" circle several times at 40yds and A large number of patterns inside a 10" at 40. That's tight. That would just be out of my guns, other folks may have different results.

At this point, I've shot several hundreds of WLB shells, from the 1st batch to the current loads. I've shot the 1 3/4 & 1 7/8 oz 3" loads of #6s extensively and the #4s & #5s to a lesser extent. I've also shot some of all 3 sizes of the 3.5" but far fewer than the 3" versions.

These shells were designed as "extended range" shells and most efforts to get them to shoot larger patterns at ranges under 40 yards can be exercises in frustration. The early loads are exceptionally tight, even at 40 yards, as witnessed by the last 2 still target competitions when some of the 1st WLB shells that were loaded were shot at these events.

Many times, at least with some of the later loads, thinking has to be changed to open them up some. If the resin slug is not fractured or fractured completely, the choke must serve as the secondary source of fracturing the slug to help open up the patterns. Otherwise, the only way it will fracture is air pressure after it's exited the muzzle.

If you rely upon the choke as a secondary source of fracturing the slug, it must do so physically with some type of restriction or wad stopper action. A tighter e.d. may produce a more open pattern but please note the emphasis on the word may. Again, it's really all about the whole internal geometry of the choke.

Since we tend to think that more open chokes produce more open patterns, this flies in the face of what we've done with other shells in the past and it does not always work.

One of the most asked questions to me over the last year or so, is something like "How can I get a more open pattern with WLB shell?" After firing case after case of them, the very best answer that I know how to give is what I've just said here. it was designed as a long range shell and the best way to get more open patterns would be to use another shell, Hevi-13 for example, if most of your shots are under 40 yards and if you have concerns about missing a turkey at those ranges. Otherwise, you could spend a lot of time, energy and money trying to accomplish something that is very difficult if not impossible to achieve.

Thanks,
Clark

07.26.16 Correction of the word "not" to the word "note" in para #4

Clark ,can you recommend some combos? What I have currently is a SBE 2 w/ 24"bbl. Final Strut choke tubes in .640" , .650" , .655", TruGlo SSX .643" , and Ind.Creek .660"...ammo= 3.5" magblends, Fed. HW 3.5" #7 shot. Have not shot the Long Beard yet but I plan on trying #4, & #5s....also I have shot the H-13 3.5" #7 shot and put 336 in a 10" circle.....yes,I know it's a fantastic pattern but my concern is the velocity....only moving @ 1090 fps. When I shot them at a new piece of particle board I was picking some of the pellets out that were just half way in the board....others on here say I shouldn't be concerned....BUT I AM!!!! Because I want to flatten and kill quickly!!!! Amyhow,any advice would be mighty helpful!!!! And ifn you wouldn't mind , send your response to my email please!!!! binkbenelli@gmail.com . Thanks so much!!!

The past two hunting seasons I attempted to do the same thing. I was shooting 330's with Hevi 13 out of my main set up and thought I could find a suitable pattern with the Win LB and save money on shells. I shot Win LB's out of 5 guns with numerous chokes and nothing suited me better than the Hevi 13 6's and 7's patterns. The trauma on the turkey inside 40yds with Hevi 13 patterns that shoot from 250-330's is devastating.  I say all that to say I wasted allot of time shooting HW 7's and Win LB's to find myself going right back to the Hevi 13 setups I was hunting with originally. Finding a gun and choke that will shoot Win LB's is easily done. I haven't found many setups that won't shoot them well. Softball patterns inside 20yds and nice patterns at 40 was the consistent result. If a tighter pattern inside 40yds is what you are looking for that would be what I found.  They are lead shells as well so pushing the limit as far as distance I would not recommend. Clark has shot them more than any of us and can probably tell you his results with that gun and several of those chokes. Not trying to discourage you but I simply found that I was already hunting with the best setup for my needs with the Hevi 13. Good luck to you.

[turkey buster]

We all want 200+ With lead at 40 yards but we don't want what it takes to make it happen. Shoot the shells you want and bring your bird home. No need to bash shells because you don't like them. Pattern your gun and shoot what works for you!

[mtns2hunt]

We all want 200+ With lead at 40 yards but we don't want what it takes to make it happen. Shoot the shells you want and bring your bird home. No need to bash shells because you don't like them. Pattern your gun and shoot what works for you!

Agreed, plus practice at closer and longer ranges to know exactly what to expect. I use mainly long beard but burn up a box prior to the season to be completely familiar with my load and gun.

[Longshanks]

   We aren't bashing shells. Just giving you my experience with LB's and also what I have seen guiding. Called in turkeys many times inside 30yds to watch avid turkey hunters miss. I wish I had 5 dollars for every story I have heard in the last couple of years about folks missing with Win LB's. They are awesome shells for competition and shooting turkeys from 35-45 yds but definitely not the best set up out of my guns as the majority of turkey I harvest are well inside 40yds. More like inside 30yds.
    Turkey hunter friend of mine told me one time that if you want to see how you do with your set up, sit motionless at the base of a tree for an hour or so, throw up and shoot a target twisted around and off hand. You will find out pretty quick how you do with a tight set up under hunting conditions. Practice off of a rest/vise at different yardages is great but shooting a turkey under hunting conditions is allot different.
     

[blueridgegobbler]

I just wish they made longbeards in 7.5s that would be nasty

[Gobble!]

At 20 and under, everything is tight.


Gods of Thunder
2015 Old Gobbler contest Champions

Bingo

[Longshanks]

The difference in my guns at 20 yds with LB's and XX's/ Hevi 13 is the difference between a baseball and a volleyball.  Hunted with them and have seen allot of folks shooting them. The number of misses is like nothing I have ever seen or heard about. The best LB hunting pattern I came up with after allot of testing was the LB 5's and the Rem Xtra Full choke out of a Rem 870 with a 21" barrel. It was a better pattern than I have been able to generate out of any other 5 load without being overly tight at normal ranges.

[Philippe]

The difference in my guns at 20 yds with LB's and XX's/ Hevi 13 is the difference between a baseball and a volleyball.  Hunted with them and have seen allot of folks shooting them. The number of misses is like nothing I have ever seen or heard about. The best LB hunting pattern I came up with after allot of testing was the LB 5's and the Rem Xtra Full choke out of a Rem 870 with a 21" barrel. It was a better pattern than I have been able to generate out of any other 5 load without being overly tight at normal ranges.

I find that the 3 inch LB 5's 1 7/8's is the optimal shell.

[Uncle Tom]

If you shooting LB's at close range like 15 - 20 yds you best pattern that gun/choke combo and know exactly where it hitting. Then when that shot presents itself, be 15 yds or your longest shot you would take, you know where to hold on that bird, and hope your body has not gone to sleep....and your aim is true. Most of time a dead bird if all the stars line up.