State Bag Limits- Too Many Or Too Few?

[Kylongspur88]

I'm fine with 2 birds for residents. I'd like to see 1 for non residents and higher tag prices. The WMAs in this state have become a joke. I've seen a parking lot as bad or worse than above at a wma half that size.

[Vintage]

Ky just raised the OOS fees. Don't know if for this year or next.

[GobbleNut]

Simply stated, this discussion all comes down to wildlife biology 101.  If you have a declining resource, you make adjustments wherever needed to protect the remaining resource at a level where that resource has the ability to recover should that decline be reversed.  For wildlife managers, the single factor that is most easily controlled is human-caused mortality in the form of hunting.

There are a variety of ways to reduce that hunting mortality, many of which have been mentioned in this discussion.  Until that problem of a declining resource, wherever it might be occurring, is addressed, wildlife managers (if they are knowledgeable, responsible, and free of negative outside influences) are going to continue to incorporate more and more restrictive regulations in an attempt to minimize the impact on the remaining resource. 

Each of us can "choose our poison" as to how to best go about minimizing that impact, but rest assured, without a reversal of those factors that are the "real" culprits...reproduction/population recruitment failure...we are doomed to seeing more and more restrictions put in place over time.  Those will almost assuredly be in the form of more restrictive bag limits, hunting methods, shorter seasons, and/or reduced hunter participation...or some combination of those.

[eggshell]

Hunting is the quickest and easiest thing to change. In my opinion, hunting may be a contributor to declines, but it is not the central cause. Sadly the bigger issues are long term strategies and optimal fixes are outside the scope of state agencies. They simply can't impact enough private land management to make a huge difference. Over all I see an improvement in farming practices around my area, and a slight change in timber management, but most landowners only see forest land as cash reserve and monetary value. Loggers exploit this and throw big numbers at the landowners to get access. Once in they absolutely destroy the woods. The only way to mitigate that is engage foresters or do your homework and hire low impact loggers. Landowners need to have a contract and require a bond unless they wholehearted know they can trust the logger. Human encroachment doesn't help either. We see more and more larger tracts of land busted up into smaller plots and sold off. Those get developed into home or vacation plots with cabins or homes. I just saw a 170 acres of prime turkey habitat reduced to developer plots. Money is indeed the root of all evil, including the turkey woods. It's already been said in previous discussions, but I'll say it again, changing bag limits is not going to bring back birds, it may help stabilize the flock a little, but I doubt it. If hunting is a cause then cease killing opportunities by reducing seasons or just stop all hunting, but no agency is going to commit professional suicide and do that. I am for doing all we can to stabilize flocks, but in all honesty, barring a huge social/economic paradigm shift, I think we are past the point of restoring the flocks we saw 25-30 years ago. The best we can hope for is sustaining what we have.

[eggshell]

Ky just raised the OOS fees. Don't know if for this year or next.

Where did you get this info. I just checked and they said License are unchanged this year.

[Prospector]

I wish we could put a limit on the timber harvest particularly in the Southeast. That's the threat to turkeys and reason for the decline.

X2

It's not the harvesting of timber that's the problem. It's the changes in timber management over the years that gets them to the point where they can be harvested that's the issue.

Apperently I must be wired differently than some. When I see logging activity in a big forest setting it gets a pin. No bigger attractor in the big woods in spring than an opening big or small, natural or man made.

These openings provide the security of open space during periods of rain and better yet prime nesting and brood rearing habitat if managed correctly.

If you want more turkeys let the timber companies cut. What needs to be put in place is a management plan conducive to wildlife through the all the stages of a growing forest after said cutting. A thinning regime needs to be put in place to allow light to get the forest floor after the initial 2 to 3 year benefit seen from the logging.

Recent studies are indicating the number one factor effecting turkey populations is the pathetic availability of quality nesting and brood rearing habit throughout the country. It is also becoming apperent to many that any disturbance especially fire and logging that allows light to the forest floor is extremely beneficial to wild turkeys.

Closed canopy hardwoods with open understories are not the the answer. Great for fall winter habitat and of course hunting. Not so great at providing the requirements needed to bring a turkey from egg to adult. There will be turkeys around but the population will not come close to its potential unless " proper" management practices are put into place that and  includes disturbances like fire and logging.

Paulmyr I would like to expand on your take here. I agree with you that it is more the way it's managed rather than that it is. Clear cuts ARE a game draw and ARE a pin on my map as well. The problem is that here in east central MS most of the land is timber company owned. That means VAST cuts at one time. It is very common to see cuts as far as you can see with absolutely no trees left. That's gonna limit how much and how long a turkey can utilize it. In a season or two it turns into an impenetrable briar patch- for hundreds of yards. And the companies don't respect the hardwoods and SMZ. They cut right up to the banks of even large creeks etc.They certainly do not replant hardwoods either. Also, the spraying practice by helicopter or plane not only destroys native plants but has been proven to stunt or eliminate acorn production on any oak left big enough to not be killed outright. If you pay to lease timber company land you have no rights here/ they will bid it out to be cut during turkey/deer season regardless of Why you leased it.

[Gobbler428]

I wish we could put a limit on the timber harvest particularly in the Southeast. That's the threat to turkeys and reason for the decline.

X2

It's not the harvesting of timber that's the problem. It's the changes in timber management over the years that gets them to the point where they can be harvested that's the issue.

Apperently I must be wired differently than some. When I see logging activity in a big forest setting it gets a pin. No bigger attractor in the big woods in spring than an opening big or small, natural or man made.

These openings provide the security of open space during periods of rain and better yet prime nesting and brood rearing habitat if managed correctly.

If you want more turkeys let the timber companies cut. What needs to be put in place is a management plan conducive to wildlife through the all the stages of a growing forest after said cutting. A thinning regime needs to be put in place to allow light to get the forest floor after the initial 2 to 3 year benefit seen from the logging.

Recent studies are indicating the number one factor effecting turkey populations is the pathetic availability of quality nesting and brood rearing habit throughout the country. It is also becoming apperent to many that any disturbance especially fire and logging that allows light to the forest floor is extremely beneficial to wild turkeys.

Closed canopy hardwoods with open understories are not the the answer. Great for fall winter habitat and of course hunting. Not so great at providing the requirements needed to bring a turkey from egg to adult. There will be turkeys around but the population will not come close to its potential unless " proper" management practices are put into place that and  includes disturbances like fire and logging.

Paulmyr I would like to expand on your take here. I agree with you that it is more the way it's managed rather than that it is. Clear cuts ARE a game draw and ARE a pin on my map as well. The problem is that here in east central MS most of the land is timber company owned. That means VAST cuts at one time. It is very common to see cuts as far as you can see with absolutely no trees left. That's gonna limit how much and how long a turkey can utilize it. In a season or two it turns into an impenetrable briar patch- for hundreds of yards. And the companies don't respect the hardwoods and SMZ. They cut right up to the banks of even large creeks etc.They certainly do not replant hardwoods either. Also, the spraying practice by helicopter or plane not only destroys native plants but has been proven to stunt or eliminate acorn production on any oak left big enough to not be killed outright. If you pay to lease timber company land you have no rights here/ they will bid it out to be cut during turkey/deer season regardless of Why you leased it.

Amen brother I hunt 10,000 acres of mostly timber company land in South Carolina and 
it seems like they are cutting and spraying somewhere on us constantly and the only hardwoods left are mostly in the bottoms near the creeks where they leave a few that don't get sprayed. Last year they starting cutting on one of our tracks on opening day of turkey season and its normal for them to spray while hens are nesting,

[deathfoot]

Ky just raised the OOS fees. Don't know if for this year or next.

Not sure what they used to be but I paid $242.05 total for my KY oos license. That was online so there was some sort of convenience fee tacked on.

[Prospector]

The moral of timber companies is that they are in the timber, not wildlife bizness no matter how many touchy feely pamphlets they put out demonstrating different.
I am not normally for lots of regs but in this case I wish that there were more to help our natural resources as a whole rather than just exploitation of one of them. Money buys influence though and that is very apparent in my home state.

[ScottTaulbee]

Ky just raised the OOS fees. Don't know if for this year or next.

Not sure what they used to be but I paid $242.05 total for my KY oos license. That was online so there was some sort of convenience fee tacked on.

That's probably what he's talking about. They added that "convenience fee" this year. We've never had that before


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[lmbunch69]

Indiana raised their prices for oos last season or the season before. For deer, it is now over 500$ for the bundle license. It did not change the amount of oos pressure I saw deer hunting on state property. I feel like the guys that take the time to hunt out of state are going to do it regardless of price. If anything, I feel like increased prices may increase the pressure from your more serious guys. The perceived notion that the price is going to keep people from also going is an incentive to go. Let's face it, what is 100 or 2 dollars now. It's a drop in a bucket in the grand scheme of things. I'm happy with Indiana 1 bird limit. Public land is a zoo anymore it feels like.

[Duckdogdad]

I have a friend in West Tennessee who spends a fortune on turkey habitat each year. Owns 680 acres where you don't hunt your bird, you select him. Two years ago we counted over 80 jakes in a field.I typically hunt with him, doing an afternoon and following morning hunt...always kill two,  three or four year old birds.

He only hunts first two weeks of the season taking friends each day. He harvest his birds by the 3rd day of the season. Last year there were 23 birds taken on 15 hunting days. If he shot 4 birds per man per season, he would not make a dent in his population. There are areas of the state where you are lucky to kill one bird a year. I see no reason to not allow a higher harvest total when the state knows there is probably less than one bird average taken per hunter a year. What difference would it make if the limit was three per year and very few will even get two?

[RMP]

Virginia:  3 per season with no more than 2 in the Fall.  That's about right. From what I have seen, Virginia manages it flocks well.  Over the last years, I've seen more turkeys than ever before.  And I am seeing them in places I've never seen them before. 

[Cottonmouth]

Too many with a caveat:
Mississippi-currently has a 3 bird limit. My personal opinion is NR should be one and one only. Resident should have a one ( maybe 2) bird limit at license purchase with an opportunity at an additional tag with a predator bounty.
Quit wasting money on tele-check. Look at the NWTF harvest report for MS. Little over 11k reported but MS "thinks" like 30k actual. Wow. Even they know it's ridiculous. Use $ for something else. Like supporting a predator bounty... get all us NWTF members off our duff and #1 trapping- gotta get that tag! and #2 helping man and support that predator bounty.... Just one poor man's opinion. lol, might have got a little more than u asked....

Yep predators are out of control.  I kill every coon, possum and coyote I see, but need help.