State Bag Limits- Too Many Or Too Few?

[Tom007]

Joey46- New Jersey has no set Max Limit on Gobblers Killed. If you know the Lottery Phase- the Over the Counter Phase- have plenty of Time + Money and Extra Quick Typing Fingers- 8- 10+ Turkey Permits are possible.
    I realize a small but growing group takes advantage  of this System Loophole.

I can tell you first hand that Jersey is seeing the effects of these bag limits. The Northern part of the state has seen a very concerning drop in populations. The last 3 years in a row have shown an average drop of over 20% annual harvest over-all. The Southern part of the state is now getting pounded, it's a matter of time that the entire state will suffer very low bird numbers. It's a shame that they rely heavily on this permit revenue, thus steps to reduce same will lead to budget shortfalls. Time will tell, but I can see this becoming a real problem in the future. On-line checking that was instituted the past few years I believe has impacted this also. They make it too easy for a dishonest hunter to harvest several birds on the same permit. I believe you could add another 10% to the annual harvest numbers due to birds that were not checked in. All this will definitely affect the resource, we can only hope it survives.....

[ruination]

The thing about lowering bag limits...specially to one, is a lot of people won't give a  and just wont report their harvest.

I'd like to think that wasn't the case.  But I have seen my share of illegal  on public, can't imagine what goes down on private.

[jakebird]

I would support states going to a one tag limit for NR, and it would be great if first week was resident only. I'm sure not every state is a 'destination' state, but residents should always have priority in their home states. What if only a set number of NR tags were allocated by lottery like top destination deer states? Might throttle back the pressure a bit. Most states are probably pretty good with a two bird limit for residents.

[appalachianassassin]

I dont think the limit matters much. Very few hunters have the ability to kill more than 1 a year or even every 2 years. Dropping the limit only affects a select few

[Happy]

I am for letting the states decide. I do think it could be fined tuned a bit according to the regional populations, but that's just me. Branching out on that thought, I would rather they restrict legal methods of harvest before reducing bag limits. I am selfish and perfectly fine with admitting it. I would rather be hunting them handicapped with a recurve bow and no limit than be allowed 1 by many of the legal methods today. 

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[sasquatch1]

I am for letting the states decide. I do think it could be fined tuned a bit according to the regional populations, but that's just me. Branching out on that thought, I would rather they restrict legal methods of harvest before reducing bag limits. I am selfish and perfectly fine with admitting it. I would rather be hunting them handicapped with a recurve bow and no limit than be allowed 1 by many of the legal methods today. 

Good-looking and Platinum level member of the Elitist club

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[Kyle_Ott]

If we were producing poults at an annual rate that exceeded 3.0 poults per hen, I think this would be a different conversation.

But we've arrived at a point in the US where folks are happy just to see 2.0 pph and things are barely sustaining.  And we've also arrived at a point where innovation has permeated every aspect of turkey hunting and the birds are taking it on the chin.  Let's be real damn honest.  It's easier than every to kill turkeys and the seemingly endless number of harvest records being set in states with stable or declining populations reflect it. 

I'm a pretty well traveled guy and one of the most common things out of state farmers/landowners/hunters say to me when turkeys take over the discussion is "Son, you should have seen it 8/10/15/20 years ago."  I really liked turkey hunting a lot more 8/10/15/20 years ago too!

There are a myriad of factors influencing wild turkey populations but we have killed our way into a scenario where most states are dependent on robust hatches each year.  Turkey mortality from hunters, nest predators and avian predators never relents.  If anything it has only intensified and that should be extremely concerning to everyone.

While I hunt public extensively, I'm also fortunate to help manage a decent bit of private dirt.  I can say without any hesitation that killing less than 20% of the gobblers off a property and trapping will go a long way towards ensuring robust flocks.

I've said for many years I don't understand why an NR hunter should be allowed to harvest more than 1 gobbler in any state.  Go enjoy a quality experience with good opportunity at success, be happy with your 1 gobbler and drive your  home.

I also don't believe we should be able to kill any more than 2 gobblers as residents of the majority of states around the country.

The best hunting in the country can be found where bad limits are 1.  And i'll happily take a quality experience where I see an abundance of turkeys and hear an abundance of turkeys over seeing few, hearing few but also killing a few.

I guess this was a long way of saying i support resident bag limits of 2 in most places (1 where populations are really struggling) and a nationwide 1 bird bag limit for NR's in any state they travel to.

[deathfoot]

I have hunted quite a few states. I actually like the way some states are doing it. Iowa for example has limited non resident tags, different seasons, different zone and each zone has its allotment of tags. Minnesota is also limited to one tag and has different seasons but does not have a license quota. Illinois is based county by county with a limited number of tags and different seasons. Honestly, I like the different season approach when I'm traveling. But that's just me.

I know each state is different. Each state is dealing with their own problems. I have no issue with going out of state for one bird (tag). Three of the states I'm going to this year, including Iowa, has a one bird limit. I'm not greedy so I'm good with that.

I am definitely for states limiting out of state tags. Give the first shot to residents if tags are limited, as well, like Illinois. That's fair. I'm also for limiting the number of people on WMA's. I've hunted several that I've had to draw tags for and they are well managed.

Virginia, my state, has always had a three bird limit since I started hunting them in 1992. I think it's time for them to look at that. Certain parts of the state the population is in decline while other parts of the state population is steady or increasing.

Again, it is definitely up to the states to decide but I truly hope they have the turkey in the forefront of their mind over money. But...what's the chances?

[WV Flopper]

 I am a hunter.

I am not an educated, trained biologist.

My view of a state population has no merit. I will let the professionals do their jobs.

[TonyTurk]

When Oklahoma dropped the statewide limit from 3 birds to 1, I started hunting another state every year to try and fill 1 or 2 more tags.

Prior to that I was happy to hunt in Oklahoma and fill a couple of tags each Spring.

Dropping the limit to 1 bird might actually INCREASE the number of non-resident hunters in some areas.

[Marc]

California has a 3 bird season limit, 1 bearded turkey per day.  I am fine with that.

Turkeys are not a native species in California, and some consider them "invasive."  Outside of harvest season/limits, nothing is done, or allowed to be done to improve turkey numbers...

Plenty of urban areas with turkey issues, and there has been talk of relocation, but relocation of turkeys in California is NOT allowed at this time.

From my understanding, much of the state fees from licensing and stamps goes to the general state fund, and not back into game or fish management.

My impression is (and I could be wrong) that if there were two turkeys left in California, the limit would remain 3.

[zelmo1]

All the points to be made are in this thread, we have some intelligent people here with experience and common sense. It seems to me that the states should be raising or lowering the bag limits statewide and regional areas to sustain what numbers we do have. But we all have the same issues that negatively affect turkeys and there are remedies for each. 1) Access to good hunting areas, be a steward of the land and assist land owners to promote good faith. 2) Egg  stealers/nest raiders. We can all take a few of these out of the equation and assist trappers to help ourselves. 3)Mandatory physical registration will put a dent in the poaching/slobs. 4)Get involved with your local NWTF or F&G to volunteer time or resources. I have no issues with giving residents a head start or an opportunity for a second bird, but punishing non res hunters doesnt have to be extreme. My season is one of the last openers so a lot of states are either done or wrapping up. Our location dictates the later opener, this brings in the dedicated turkey hunter with an extra opportunity/ incentive to hunt my state. I am liking the 2/1 res/non res limits in general. But I think the individual states need to get cracking on the other issues. I for one dont like the online registration, it can be tempting to some people to roll the dice. Since I had my first license I had to physically tag and register every big game animal I ever took in my own state. Untagged animals here are big fines, as they should be. This online registration is not a good idea in my opinion, it is convenient. But it gives the " less than ethical hunter" more of a chance to be just that. Good luck to everyone and God Bless Y'all. Z

[Prospector]

I wish we could put a limit on the timber harvest particularly in the Southeast. That's the threat to turkeys and reason for the decline.

Absolutely. Habitat loss is the #1 reason behind any decline here in the South. Changes in timber management practices go right there. No more prescribed burns bc the big "skidders" don't need clear understory like a man on a saw. Good for deer, good for rabbits- not so good with turkeys. Those growed up clear cuts or sterile understory of older pine plantations ( for huge expanses) just don't support as high a population.
   Also I've said this before. The sport has increased in popularity bc with all the "tech" it's easier to be successful thus nullifying the time spent and expierance factor. Reduce the dependence on the tech and the hunter numbers will probably decrease without true loss of opportunity. JMHO.

[jakebird]

I wish we could put a limit on the timber harvest particularly in the Southeast. That's the threat to turkeys and reason for the decline.

Absolutely. Habitat loss is the #1 reason behind any decline here in the South. Changes in timber management practices go right there. No more prescribed burns bc the big "skidders" don't need clear understory like a man on a saw. Good for deer, good for rabbits- not so good with turkeys. Those growed up clear cuts or sterile understory of older pine plantations ( for huge expanses) just don't support as high a population.
   Also I've said this before. The sport has increased in popularity bc with all the "tech" it's easier to be successful thus nullifying the time spent and expierance factor. Reduce the dependence on the tech and the hunter numbers will probably decrease without true loss of opportunity. JMHO.

You raise a good point about the tech, etc.....Makes me wonder which of the techs is most responsible for upticks in success. 65 yard turkey guns/ loads/ TSS? Lifelike decoys? Blinds? I agree with the premise but I'm honestly not sure how a state wildlife agency would go about putting further restrictions on. It seems like once something is approved it's next to impossible to take it away due to the pushback. If you had hundreds of dollars wrapped up in your DS decoys and all of a sudden they were banned in your state, you would be irate. Same with long range turkey rigs, etc ....I'm not sure how they could realistically ban TSS or tight chokes, etc.....and since TSS is non toxic vs lead I don't see that ever passing. "Maybe" decoys and blinds......We might be better served by pushing for significant fee hikes for turkey tags. That would filter out some of the casual guys and also add valuable revenue that could be devoted to habitat work, etc. And rather than pushing for mandatory restrictions on gear and tactics, there may be room to influence such things from a social standpoint. If you look at things like the resurgence of the old Bottomland camo....it's because eventually most guys like to be considered "old school". It's like a badge of honor. Eventually Bottomland became "cooler" than the modern patterns because the old guy wearing the original were respected ad the seasoned veterans they were. There does seem to be a bit of a shift taking place to old school tactics. More and more guys hanging up the dekes and trying to call them close in the timber vs field ambushing from a blind. Then we have the rise of the 410's and other sub gauges. These could be moves in the right direction. I've already made a lot of these moves myself. We can use our influence to encourage other hunters especially younger hunters to strip down their tech and up the challenge in their sport. Get out of the blind. Get back in the timber. Lose the decoys, etc. Let them see for themselves that the enjoyment is in the challenge of the pursuit, not the score card. I have noticed that I see less and less guys posting their bird stats (spurs and beards) versus a few years ago when it seemed every harvest photo had to have a stat sheet attached. That's a great thing, imo. And I think that's a testament to what positive social
pressure can do.

[Prospector]

We are bouncing ideas for sure: One thing though, hiking fees may eliminate the "casual" hunter but it may also eliminate devoted hunters who just don't have that cash flow. Yes, I understand the money thing as far as hi dolla tech. It's not gonna happen bc too much money comes in from companies making the "tech". But it could be done. My opinion is for what it takes to prevent telling a NR he can't hunt NF, or price a hunter out of other states. The Midwest enjoys big white tails bc of geography, bc of genetics, bc of agriculture, and admitting, bc of limited NR access....but also bc they have LONG archery seasons and short firearm seasons. ANYBODY can archery hunt if they re willing to accept the limitations. Conversely with Turkey, you can hunt if you're willing to do so without the tech- Not everyone will