Heavy TSS 20 Gauge Loads and Possible Damage To Semi-Autos

[Hill]

I currently shoot TSS not because you can shoot at longer distances. I've used them since 2016 I believe and I've yet to shoot a bird past 30 yards.  I like them because of the pattern density.

I shoot a Retay and after reading this I may do some research next year and switch to more "traditional" loads. If anyone has any suggestions on where to start I'm all ears.

I wouldn't worry as much with your Retay or other inertia guns. The internal wear wouldn't be as bad as an over gassed piston on a gas gun. I also don't shoot 2oz loads out of a 20ga. If I need more than 1-5/8oz I would just use a 12ga.

[cassga]

So i have a Weatherby SA08 20 gauge that i bought and set up as a primary turkey gun about 8 years ago. I started with Fed Heavyweight #7's, but since switching to factory 1-5/8oz TSS loads, I have noticed some cycling issues. Rarely have I needed a follow up shot with it, so maybe thats why I havent noticed it as much. According to Weatherby, they recommend 1300 fps as a min for cycling, which most turkey loads are advertised around 1200 fps. I was considering handloads that are tailored more to the gun, i.e. reduced payload/increased velocity to see what improvements are made. I am running the "heavy" piston and just did a major breakdown and cleaning to see what improvements, if any, are made to cycling.

Based on what I am reading here, regardless of the cycling issues, the payload could be causing damage to the internals?

[SumToy]

Folks just go buy a cheap gun.   Tss will shoot in it just as good as a High $$$$ gun.    Then when it brakes throw it away and buy another  cheap one.   Keep your high end ones to wing shoot and so on. 

[JohnD.]

Seems like this subject came up a couple of years ago. As it has already been alluded to, 20 gauge guns were designed around 1 1/4 oz max payload. I bought a Tristar Viper 20 gauge for my daughter a couple of years ago and have been very pleased. The reloading block has failed on some of these guns by people using 1 1/2 oz or more loads from what I have read. Randy Wakeman is the resident shotgun guru over on SGW. He says Armsan, the maker of Tristar and others do not test anything over 1 1/4 oz. I don't always agree with Randy but he seems to know what he's talking about and not afraid to share his opinion. Seems that shotguns can suffer metal fatigue by overloading them and you never know when one will let go. I won't be shooting anything heavier than the recommended load in the Tristar.

John

[Sx2win]

Hi all,  just a heads up. I will be doing some experimenting the next couple

weeks with my Tristar raptor 20ga.  As you all know this model shotgun only has

one all loads piston and no heavy piston rated for 1 1/4 oz normal max 20 ga

load. I will be removing the gas ring of the gas piston and experimenting

shooting high power loads and higher fps loads too see if #1  how much recoil

is reduced.  #2 How the gun cycles or cycles properly at all  I have done this

in the past with a 12ga gas gun and had great results with just the highest

power loads. Worst that can happen is the gun becomes a single shot and just

cycle.  Feel its safe because your basically just removing gas from the system

putting less on the action and less stress on the moving parts. I'll let you

know how it goes.

[Sx2win]

Just an update. Made it out too the range to test the raptor 20ga with gas ring removed.  Shot rem nitro #5 1 1/4 0z and gun failed too feed second shell. Shot winchester magnum 3 inch #5 1 1/4oz 1175 fps and gun
cycled and fed 2nd shell as long as you held the gun very tight too your shoulder. Shells ejected only about 3 or 4 feet and I was able to fire the second shell. Test I would say was a success. Recoil was reduced  greatly, and I feel it did  reduce the bolt speed quit a bit. Next I will be testing higher payload shells such as herters 1 1/2oz #9
shot. Also have some epic 2oz #9 on the way.  Still also need to try
20ga longbeard xr.  I will also inspect the gun after I run these shells.  I would imagine that all these loads will cycle fine. Think this modification will really help the life of the gun and moving parts just for its intended purpose of turking hunting.  Let you all know how things progress and work out down the road.

[Dtrkyman]

My bolt carrier assembly cracked on my Sa-20 this past spring, I think the gun probably still functioned but could have been catastrophic at some point.

Luckily I found a replacement on eBay for cheap.

Probably have 75 or so 1 5/8th oz hand loads through it, in only failed to eject a turkey load once!

Had to carry my 12ga for my last hunt of the year, that sucked!


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[FL-Boss]

All the Weatherby SA, Mossberg SA, Tristar Vipers and many others imported brands are essentially the same Turkish built guns with some slight differences.... I have owned over 10 of them in all the assorted .410 -12GA.  My Weatherby SA-459 (discontinued years ago) has (2) different pistons. Since it's a turkey gun only for me, I have only used the heavy piston. Most the current SA guns only have one piston. 
With that said, I personally wouldn't run anything over 1.5/8 oz in any SA 20GA.. or 1.3/8 for the Mossberrg SA 28Ga.  The 12GA Tristar Viper, I rarely use.. but keep it at 2oz.  I've never had any issues.
These probably aren't the best build guns, but since they are low shot volume turkey only, they have all served me well.

[Sx2win]

Another update, got out too the range again and shot some more high

loads thru the TriStar Raptor 20ga with the gas ring removed from the

gas piston.  All the following loads cycled and fed the second shell

just fine as follows.  Long beard XR 5 shot, Federal Grand slam 1 5/16

oz 5 shot,  herters tss 1 1/2 oz 9 shot,  Kent 1 3/8oz tss #7 shot and

finally Epic Tss 2oz 9 shot. Recoil has been reduced dramatically

almost to the feeling of shooting a trap or skeet load. Bolt speed has

been slowed way down and no battering of the action or moving parts.

Shells flew from the action from 3 too 5 ft, Think I could shoot tss

all day long and not worry about any damage to the gun. Also, it will

be much easier on the optics which is another huge bonus.  Good luck

too all this season.

[BINK McCARTY]

I know this is fixing to open a can of worms.   

Now a lot of stuff going on now days.   20 ga 13/4,  17/8,  2   and 21/8.   
                                                        28ga 15/8
                                                         12ga over 25/8
                                                         410s  god only knows

I have see swollen chokes (all brands that I know build good stuff)    I see chokes blown out barrels.  Swollen barrels.   

Problem is folks have got away from killing turkeys and gone to killing paper to post photos.   

I know some of the autos get beat up in the back because the bolt slams against the back of the receiver. 


Yessir, you said it. Just about ANY of the current day set ups will kill a bird waaay longer than what I'd say most consider "huntin" them.

[BINK McCARTY]

Been shooting 2-1/8 oz loads for the last 7 years. My stoeger m3020 hasn't missed a beat and doesn't have any signs of wear.


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2 1/8 oz out of a 20 gauge???

[Ihuntoldschool]

Now that's a stout load in a 5.6 lb inertia gun.

Been shooting 2-1/8 oz loads for the last 7 years. My stoeger m3020 hasn't missed a beat and doesn't have any signs of wear.


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2 1/8 oz out of a 20 gauge???

[jflo]

Another update, got out too the range again and shot some more high

loads thru the TriStar Raptor 20ga with the gas ring removed from the

gas piston.  All the following loads cycled and fed the second shell

just fine as follows.  Long beard XR 5 shot, Federal Grand slam 1 5/16

oz 5 shot,  herters tss 1 1/2 oz 9 shot,  Kent 1 3/8oz tss #7 shot and

finally Epic Tss 2oz 9 shot. Recoil has been reduced dramatically

almost to the feeling of shooting a trap or skeet load. Bolt speed has

been slowed way down and no battering of the action or moving parts.

Shells flew from the action from 3 too 5 ft, Think I could shoot tss

all day long and not worry about any damage to the gun. Also, it will

be much easier on the optics which is another huge bonus.  Good luck

too all this season.

Are you referring to the rubber O ring as being the gas ring?