Personal musings

[eggshell]

There was never enough diversity in the gene pool when they restocked transplanted turkeys.

My guess is that most of the released birds came from a single area or two. That would support the theory of a small gene pool. Those birds could mix with any residents, but many areas had no residents. I do not know of any agencies even doing any genetic modeling, they just trapped and released. They genetics issue is just another target on the dart board in reality.

[Ihuntoldschool]

There was never enough diversity in the gene pool when they restocked transplanted turkeys.

My guess is that most of the released birds came from a single area or two. That would support the theory of a small gene pool.

^ That is a fact they absolutely did.
Many died in 1st year in new area further limiting gene pool.

Im sure disease plays a role along with many other factors. Habitat loss, timber harvest big factor in Southeast,  nest predators,  weather, more avian predators than ever before.

Agriculture practices, Hunting pressure impacting nesting success, all day hunting, season timing .

State wildlife agencies have their hands full.

[eggshell]

Here's a pod cast that you all might find interesting. It's a gardening/market farming podcast but his guest today is one of the bird experts from Cornell. You'll come away thinking....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn9Gs0nmUo0

[Bill]

Here's a pod cast that you all might find interesting. It's a gardening/market farming podcast but his guest today is one of the bird experts from Cornell. You'll come away thinking....

Good stuff there, especially related to ground nesters which obviously includes wild turkeys.

On a landscape scale, I suspect the number of nests that are wrecked due to late spring and early summer haying/mowing is staggering. If a very late maturing perennial hay/forage crop were ever developed that was prime to cut in late July or early August were ever developed it could be game changing, both for birds and haying (dry weather!).  The closest thing I know of is Indian grass, and at least around here even it is overripe by then.


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[vt35mag]

I am seeing the exact opposite. Plenty of hens compared to the amount of gobblers. Hence, what seems to be an extended breeding season.

Same here, plenty of hens.
No reason VT shouldn't continue to have a one fall hen limit.
Not many fall turkey hunters here anyways. Can't recall ever seeing someone out specifically looking for a fall bird. Only a 9 day shotgun season. Think most that are taken are by bowhunters when they come under their stand.

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[Tail Feathers]

There was never enough diversity in the gene pool when they restocked transplanted turkeys.

My guess is that most of the released birds came from a single area or two. That would support the theory of a small gene pool. Those birds could mix with any residents, but many areas had no residents. I do not know of any agencies even doing any genetic modeling, they just trapped and released. They genetics issue is just another target on the dart board in reality.

A super stocking of 70 birds was done in a NF near me.  Most didn't make it long at all.  Seems they sent some nuisance "town" birds from another state and they couldn't survive real wilderness.

[runngun]

Ihuntoldschool, I have seen the same thing with chicken manure.  Several years ago a neighbor of mine spread chicken manure on his fields, ALL of them, due to the price. Prior to the spreading, we had a lot of turkeys.  Strong numbers, that area is perfect for turkeys I am talking beautiful, open creek bottoms and hidden fields. The following year, turkeys were almost non existent.  A hunting Buddy  killed one Gobbler that had Avian Pox. This bird was in bad shape, sores all over his head.  And man he STUNK!!! State turkey leader/biologist took the bird for testing.  Farmer is still using chicken manure because of the cost. My family are farmers as well, but we have never used it just because of this reason!

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[Davyalabama]

New on here, but I've been after these birds for 50+ years.  No you all know it's "climate change and Trump's fault" we don't have birds!!!!!!!!  Alright, enough factiousness, let's get serious.

1)  There is a big difference in logging/timber -- these bunch feller machines can destroy a lot of ground in a matter of days not months -- Yes, there was some clear cutting back in the day, but it wasn't near as prevalent.  Pine forests and money.
2)  I just don't think as a whole we are culling predators enough.  Public lands?  I talk about the western states allowing all that dead timber to stay on the ground as a reason for the huge wildfires.  Well, our public lands here in the East, we aren't controlling predators enough ------ including hogs!!!!!!  Dagnabit, if they can't get soft peter (saltpeter) for the military, they should get it for hogs too.
3)  I just don't see where culling hens will help.  I just don't.
4)  I think you have a lot more turkey "ambushers" than you had back in the day.  Yeah, you had some that would bushwack a turkey or a group in the old days, but today with the advent of the VCR, then youtube influencers, you've got a lot more turkey "ambushers" out there.  I call them ambushers, because, they aren't turkey hunting, they are just out there looking for one to kill, it isn't a sport.  Sitting in a tent, sitting in a shooting house on the ground, using TSS shells to shoot 70-90-100 yards out in a rye/wheat/clover field is "NOT" turkey hunting.  You might as well go get your 22/250 or .223 and shoot them on a power line.  (Yep, I may get flamed by some of you for this, but I have my opinion on what is fair chase for gobblers.)     

[eggshell]

I just attended a meeting where the guest speaker was a a veterinarian research virologist who specializes in bird flu. . His topic was bird flu and it's spread and effect on both domestic and wild birds. In a nut shell it is devastating to turkeys with 100 mortality in infected flocks. They discovered cows are carriers and pigs are transitional host to humans. I asked about the possibility of spreading it with corn baiting for deer and he said it was very possible. If corn came from farms that also have livestock or used manures for fertilizing. He said deer feeding sites were prime for spreading disease. He also said that it would never be regulated because it has become big business and the farm organizations and insurance companies want the deer herd controlled. So your theory on chicken manure has a lot of merit. I am probably about to make some people's poop list, but I think deer baiting should be outlawed as well. 

[crow]

Your in danger of being emojied

[Happy]

Interesting stuff, eggshell. While I am not a big fan of baiting. I can say that it's pretty much religion around here on private land and has been for 30+ years. If this is true, then i would think things have changed with how corn is being grown and processed.

[Ihuntoldschool]

I just attended a meeting where the guest speaker was a a veterinarian research virologist who specializes in bird flu. . His topic was bird flu and it's spread and effect on both domestic and wild birds. In a nut shell it is devastating to turkeys with 100 mortality in infected flocks. They discovered cows are carriers and pigs are transitional host to humans. I asked about the possibility of spreading it with corn baiting for deer and he said it was very possible. If corn came from farms that also have livestock or used manures for fertilizing. He said deer feeding sites were prime for spreading disease. He also said that it would never be regulated because it has become big business and the farm organizations and insurance companies want the deer herd controlled. So your theory on chicken manure has a lot of merit. I am probably about to make some people's poop list, but I think deer baiting should be outlawed as well. 

^  Agree 100 percent.

Deer baiting isnt only bad for turkeys but it helps deer spread their diseases you know stuff like CWD and HD. I know some dont care but I personally wouldn't want to eat a deer that was CWD infected.

Another thing Hogs. Think about all the Hog baiting particularly in Deep South

[eggshell]

Interesting stuff, eggshell. While I am not a big fan of baiting. I can say that it's pretty much religion around here on private land and has been for 30+ years. If this is true, then i would think things have changed with how corn is being grown and processed.

It's not the growing or harvesting it's the post harvest handling of bait corn. Workers walk around live stock areas and trucks haul the grain from livestock farms are exposed to the virus. A chicken farmer walks through his chicken house then goes to the feed store and never changes boots. The virus can spread via airborne methods.

This is a flyer on the meeting, I am a member. https://scontent.ftol1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/506022230_1287748273353203_8285974758622439002_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=ugbaiQqskWwQ7kNvwHVFN97&_nc_oc=AdnUVICTiyWBWLwsE6Hrp4ZPfsipkKAMQFDB0_TpdIMJhnOdMDL6sJB5_6NVWUH85dM&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.ftol1-1.fna&_nc_gid=8e-qU92uPvFT24qlI3415g&oh=00_AfMUVoLwQGL0mfASqHuAQczo1wmPCz24eOMcyHxxFhBmtw&oe=685FB259

This is the speaker. You can click on the study link in the lower right corner to read more. https://vet.osu.edu/people/andrew-bowman

[Happy]

Thanks Eggshell. I can't bring myself to trust this guy. He is an Ohio State guy.

[eggshell]

Well Happy, I really don't know how to ease your suspicions. I guess you should just double down and buy some deer corn from a poultry farm or dairy farm and spread it in your favorite turkey woods and test it for yourself I'd walk through some chicken poop while I was there too.

Before you dirty your pantys and get them all bunched up....I am being sarcastic of course.