How About Some Discussion Regarding Technique if you Will

[SCGobblaGetta]

I wanted to open up some dialogue on a subject that has piqued my interest as of late.  I had never seriously considered carrying a trumpet to the turkey woods.  Not my turkey woods.  Everyone says they hunt hard birds and I am not one to dispute what someone's opinion is of their stomping grounds.  Turkeys can be tough and on some days they can run into the most awful calling with a death wish.  The birds of the deep Low Country South have a reputation; they have been around for a while.  Success most times depended on slipping close to the roost, waiting patiently, resisting the urge to call through the hour-long gobble session before fly-down, then hammering him NWTF Grand National style and often times within 30 minutes you were headed back to the truck.  In my youth I purchased a Tom Turpin yelper and when it came, proceeded to kiss away on the thing for a half-hour or so.  That's about how long it took for me to determine the sound, the style was not for me.  I could run a mouth call better than most, and a pot call same and that's what I stuck with. 

I have been running a turkey call for the better part of 39 years.  I can run a call with the best of them.  I threw my hat in the competition ring when I was younger.  Wanting to be part of that privileged inner circle, but stage fright got the absolute best of me.  Simply put, I enjoyed woods calling and in my mind the bird was the best judge.  Just didn't come with the big paychecks and recognition, such is life.  I have long since stopped paying for cable TV so most of my entertainment comes from a handful of streaming apps and YouTube.  Oh man YouTube....the BEST and the WORST thing to happen to so many things.  I think I remember when the only thing YouTube was good for was watching some guy run around in a cape doing ninjy and judy chops.  If you know you know.  I promise I am going somewhere with this.  One day I run across a video of the Mark P. running a trumpet and I am like "hold the phone; you can get that sound out of a trumpet"?  Understand I am probably the anomaly around here.  I don't make annual treks to Helen for Unicoi – but you can certainly find me there in October enjoying a plate of sauerbraten with a glass of Dunkel.  Just never heard of it to be honest because I stopped running in these circles years ago.
 
So began my head-long dive into this trumpet thing.  Now, I have seen all of the videos I can find of the Unicoi seminars where the elites demonstrate their skills.  Every time without fail someone will ask that question, "how do you get the rasp out of that call"?  And, every time the answer without fail will be "practice".  So here it is, the point of my rambling.  No offense is meant and I am not looking to get put on the naughty list of Old Gobber, but I have to ask this.  Today, reading the pinned thread in the trumpet and wingbone section I ran across what is probably the most useless piece of advice I have come across; paraphrasing here...listen to hens or recordings of hens of wild turkeys.  Really?  And this was in response to one of the best questions I have heard posed b/c the person asking the question had bonified, verified proof of exactly what this is.  It is a technique, plain and simple.  A member had posted sound files of themselves playing a trumpet.  It was clear as day, the sound file done a few years earlier had the clear style type of yelping all of us are familiar with whereas the most recent sound file was 180 degrees different with the drawn-out yelps with the raspy finish.  Along with what seems to be vogue now...this Matt VanCise hiccup yelping that it seems everyone is doing on anything that makes a turkey noise today.  A member had noticed and asked what I thought was the best question I have seen...again paraphrasing....what are some of the things you changed to make it click from getting one sound from another.  I was like "YES" finally someone has had found the verbiage to try to dial in on what is happening.  Well, then came the same recycled answer "practice" and "listen to more turkeys". 

Guys, forgive me but I am just going to say it.  There isn't much to this trumpet yelper.  You are drawing air into the call, your lips act as the reed.  The lips have to contract and relax in order to form the notes of the yelp.  Even if you are trying to do it with this "air control" method, you are still pulling more air in at the start of the yelp causing your lips to instinctively draw in or pucker in more.  It is funny how no other turkey call; pot, box, diaphragm – has this veil of secrecy.  Like once you stumble on the technique you are in the Ovaltine Secret Decoder club and the rules are – if you are asked to describe what you do; the answer is PRACTICE.  Look, you are pulling air through a cylinder – as far as technique, this is about as simple as they come.  Before anyone chase me to the windmill with torches and pitchforks let me say that there is definitely a nuance to it.  But the mechanics itself is simple.  I don't have to kiss the call to make it work.  I can draw air through the call like I am sipping a beverage through a straw, but not letting the beverage into my mouth. 

I am not asking the members of the secret club, I already know that answer.  For those of you that are like me and almost there with this thing, do you interpret the "pull air to the back of your throat" to mean you are using your diaphragm to pull air down your esophagus so the individual huffs of air are making the notes.  Or are you pulling the air – with your lips – to the back of your throat.  I can do both but found the first way, the diaphragm way, I feel like I am pulling a golf ball through a garden hose...but I can get some rasp out of it.  The second way sounds more like the clear style, I can relax my lips and get some rasp, but it seems like I can not get yelps to draw out longer because my mouth if filling with air....same way as if I were to drink a beverage...and your mouth fills with the beverage before you have to swallow, making more room for beverage.  I hope this long winded light hearted rant sparks some more conversation about technique that can aid those of us who are wanting to improve and elevate our calling to the next level.  Thank you anyone that had the stamina to read.

[Turkeyman]

I draw air to the back of my throat. If I draw air via my diaphragm all I accomplish is using my trumpet as a breathing tube...absolutely no sound. Essentially I get no rasp thus sound like a clear hen having no idea how sone of these guys get rasp. Practice? Bull...I've been running it for quite awhile and my basic clear, decent yelps don't change. I'm about ready to go to an oral surgeon and have him chop and slice my lips LOL. About the only thing I can think of for rasp. I'm with you...unless someone can SHOW what to do more PRACTICE doesn't cut it.

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[EZ]

Come down to Unicoi and ask any of us "yelper Guys" to help you out. You'll probably get a dozen different accomplished callers willing to sit face to face out in a quiet area.

Just as a side note, I call young clear hen AND old raspy hen and there's not a darn bit of difference in response from gobblers between the two....true story.

[KeeKee]

Come down to Unicoi and ask any of us "yelper Guys" to help you out. You'll probably get a dozen different accomplished callers willing to sit face to face out in a quiet area.

Just as a side note, I call young clear hen AND old raspy hen and there's not a darn bit of difference in response from gobblers between the two....true story.

that's awesome, unicoi sounds like would be a cool experience. Glad to hear you feel that way about calling. It drives me crazy to hear people talk about how one way of calling is the "wrong way" and "doesnt sound like a yelper." It's fun and effective to mix it up.

[davisd9]

Rasp can come from the lips like a reed, it can come from how the air is dragged and manipulated, and it can come from a combination of both.

Practice is a great answer, but with practice you have to think about what is happening and then manipulate the sounds to get what you want. Without practice and trying things you will never get there. Someone can direct you, but you still will not get proficient without putting in time and messing around with it.

A lot of people want the easy answer of you just have to do this, but the truth is even with that answer comes a lot of time and effort.

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[boatpaddle]

It all starts with a quality trumpet !!

A trumpet with the correct internals to produce a high, medium, & low notes, along with a mouthpiece dia. that fits those internals...

As owner/operator of your trumpet, it's up to you, to figure out, how to run the call.
I can assure you, that there is no formula for instant  production of turkey talk...

Mouthpiece location on your lips
Lip tension
Air draw speed
Finger manipulation over the bell end opening.
The size of the opening or baffle made with both hands.
The position of your head, when drawing air...
Controlling air to make soft or louder notes.

Time spent running your call & figuring out how to make changes to the sound should be figured out before you make the first cluck or yelp.
Learn to draw fast air & hold that note.Then figuring out the air for the medium note & the slow draw for the low tone.
Working on going from high to medium & low will teach you the air draw & control needed to use/make each note.

Structured practice will shorten the learning curve.

Make notes of how you made changes to your lips, air draw, or hand positions...

Make one change at a time..Multiple changes at the same time won't identify what/where the change(s) came from..

Find a guy , that can help you improve your practice time & efforts...

Callmakers will gladly answer your questions..

There are no secrets, just hard work to understand the physics of running a suction call & time spent doing so...

Good luck to all of you.

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[superx2]

Ive noticed I can get decent rasp if I have,
"I know this prob going to sound nasty don't know how else to say it "
moist wet lips around the mouth piece. it works for me.

[Greg Massey]

I will add all the turkeys I've killed with a trumpet really didn't care if it was raspy or not...
But I do like the challenge of trying to play a couple with rasp. I agree with others I think it has a lot to do with the trumpet you are using... Lots of great information is shared within these posts...

[FULLCHOKE1100]

You're an idiot if you don't think "listening to recordings of real hens" is some of the best advice. The best money I've spent was on Lovett Williams tapes when I was learning how to turkey hunt.

[BullTom]

You're an idiot if you don't think "listening to recordings of real hens" is some of the best advice. The best money I've spent was on Lovett Williams tapes when I was learning how to turkey hunt.

How does listening to a recording of a real hen help someone get more rasp out of a trumpet call?

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[FULLCHOKE1100]

You're an idiot if you don't think "listening to recordings of real hens" is some of the best advice. The best money I've spent was on Lovett Williams tapes when I was learning how to turkey hunt.

How does listening to a recording of a real hen help someone get more rasp out of a trumpet call?

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Figuring out a trumpet is trial and error. The learning curve is shortened if you have a real hen sound file burned into your head of what sounds you are trying to make. 

[BullTom]

You're an idiot if you don't think "listening to recordings of real hens" is some of the best advice. The best money I've spent was on Lovett Williams tapes when I was learning how to turkey hunt.

How does listening to a recording of a real hen help someone get more rasp out of a trumpet call?

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Figuring out a trumpet is trial and error. The learning curve is shortened if you have a real hen sound file burned into your head of what sounds you are trying to make.

Right, I agree. I think the OP was asking specifically about the trial and error part. Seems like he generally has a pretty good idea what a real hen sounds like, but is struggling with getting that sound (specifically rasp). I think he was looking for some tips on technique. I dont believe a real hen is going to provide him with tips on trumpet techniques.

Rather than calling a stranger on the internet an idiot because you dont understand the nuance of the question, you could have said somthing like "learning the trumpet is trial and error..." and perhaps provide some examples of things that worked or didnt work for you.

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[SCGobblaGetta]

....well....that didn't take long .  Thanks to all of you that have provided constructive feedback.

...idiot..hhmm Good luck with those tapes of yours. If that's what helps you then by all means; listen to your tapes. 30+ years of running a call I know what a hen sounds like.  Have a good one. 

[FULLCHOKE1100]

-Play with the positioning of the lip stop
-Push the MP further into/out/angle up/angle down on your upper or lower lip
-Play with what side/middle of your lips you yelp out of.
-Use spit, gum, or hard candy while you're yelping.
-Get a MP with a V or Flat Tip, Batteys newest omega MP is great for rasp.
-drink a beer or two while you're practicing.  Seriously, your muscles are less tense and your lips will be looser.

There. That better? Still an idiot for thinking you don't need to know what a real hen sounds like.