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Watched another YouTube video.  Guys moved in on a roosted gobbler early and got really close,...so close that when it got light, they could see the gobbler in the tree within shotgun range.  This was in one of those states where shooting a bird out of the roost is still legal. 

They obviously couldn't call to the bird,...well, they could have but it most likely would have sent the gobbler flying off into space.  So instead they sat there until the gobbler flew down,...within range,...and then shot him.  ...Never a call made.

Thinking about it, I found myself pondering why we turkey hunters somehow believe it is wrong to shoot a gobbler off the roost (which I most certainly do,...and think it should be illegal everywhere) but it is okay to summarily dispatch that same bird as soon as he hits the ground without ever making a call.  Really, what's the difference?...

I'm not saying it is wrong, just saying that us turkey hunters sure do have some really fine lines on the ethics we seem to abide by....

Are you referring to Pinhoti? I believe Mr. Owens has posted on this site before. You could always message him. Get his take on why he did what you're talking about.

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I won't do it myself, just don't find it sporting. Now as to what the difference is I am guessing to do that they roosted the bird the night before, so they start out with an unfair advantage though one we all start out with, or at least try to. Where it gets bad to me is getting in on him and shooting him where he has no defense whatsoever, it is not like calling where you are trying to get him to come to you and he can either come or not come, the second he lands he is shot, kinda like showing up to a football gave with a million point advantage over your opponent before the game eve starts. Think of it like a sniper setting up a gun in your bathroom on your toilet, he knows you are going there eventually.

Quote from: GobbleNut on January 26, 2020, 09:50:13 AM
Watched another YouTube video.  Guys moved in on a roosted gobbler early and got really close,...so close that when it got light, they could see the gobbler in the tree within shotgun range.  This was in one of those states where shooting a bird out of the roost is still legal. 

They obviously couldn't call to the bird,...well, they could have but it most likely would have sent the gobbler flying off into space.  So instead they sat there until the gobbler flew down,...within range,...and then shot him.  ...Never a call made.

Thinking about it, I found myself pondering why we turkey hunters somehow believe it is wrong to shoot a gobbler off the roost (which I most certainly do,...and think it should be illegal everywhere) but it is okay to summarily dispatch that same bird as soon as he hits the ground without ever making a call.  Really, what's the difference?...

I'm not saying it is wrong, just saying that us turkey hunters sure do have some really fine lines on the ethics we seem to abide by....

Can you share the name of the video , i would like to see for myself ...

You have to draw a line somewhere or anything goes.  Roosted in a tree is a simple, very definitive, line that can be drawn.  When his feet are on the ground, he's fair game. 

I've unintentionally set up that close to birds before.  You hear them gobble on the roost the evening before, slip in to get tight in the dark (especially late season), then as it gets light you realize that you're tighter than you planned.  In most of my cases the tom pitches down away from me because he knows something isn't right.  However, I've had a few that weren't so lucky.  One that I recall just getting his wings folded and stretching out to look around and a couple others that couldn't have walked more than 10 yards.

I hadn't planned it that way, but that's how it worked out.  I couldn't see any of them in the tree because it was late season and I tree yelped at all of them before I realized I'd gotten so close.  A gobble from 50 yards and in can startle the heck out of you when you expect 100 yards.

I don't want to point out any particular videos because I, in no way am trying to be critical or cause hard feelings with the folks that make them.  The video I watched just raised the question in my mind about the idea that we hunters are against shooting a gobbler out of the roost, but don't seem to think anything about shooting one right after he hits the ground.  Again,...just seems to be a curious set of ethics we hold...  ....Not wrong or right,...just curious...

Hobbes,...have had the same happen a number of times,...and your thought about drawing the line somewhere is completely on the money.  There just seems to be a gray area regarding roost hunting that raises the ethical question I brought up,...and the line we draw just because of the couple of seconds between that gobbler having his feet on a limb and having them on the ground.... 

I've hunted under them before, had 3 jakes land at 15yds. The big toms landed off to my side and strutted away. There's a 99% chance he'll land away from you. In my opinion, if you can sneak into gun range of a roosted longbeard, remain undetected for however long he's in the roost after daylight looking for danger, if he lands in gun range, you earned him.


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People hunt turkeys or any game for different reasons.  Some like the thrill of calling, some enjoy the mobility of run a gun, and some people just hate turkeys and want to kill them.

At different times I've found myself in any of these catagories.

Quote from: Gooserbat on January 26, 2020, 10:32:57 AM
People hunt turkeys or any game for different reasons.  Some like the thrill of calling, some enjoy the mobility of run a gun, and some people just hate turkeys and want to kill them.

I'm all 3 depending on what they're acting like that day.


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I personally don't like a quick hunt.   I'm there to kill him, but also there to entertain myself.  Killing one the first minute just doesn't fit my criteria.   Nothing against the guys who do it from time to time.   The few times I've had one pitch out of the tree into gun range, I've sat there silent and let him walk off, then started my hunt.   As far as ethics go, its personal.  It's one of those deals where although it's legal, it doesn't meet my personal rules of engagement.   If it meets someone's else's, by all means knock yourself out.

Gobblenut it's not something that happens to me very often.  In fact, I don't recall it ever happening with Western birds.  I rarely get to set up tight on these birds because I rarely have an opportunity to roost them like I used to with Easterns, so it's been a while.  I'd run into it more often in riverbottom country because they are more predictable.  I locate and kill the majority of my birds mid morning.

I guess, i am just more addicted to calling the gobbler into gun range. I don't hunt the roost anyway , so i don't have to worry about this ever happening to myself. Is is wrong , that's up to the person doing it , it's just a tactic i don't care for alone with reaping. I hunt turkeys because i enjoy the one on one competition of trying to beat the odds of convincing him, i'm this sweet hen who he can fall in love with, does this always work no, if not i hope i get a change to try and convince him another day. So if you want to shoot one off the roost and it's legal go right ahead and do it and don't worry about what others think. It's just something i'm not interested in doing. I guess you could say i'm just not that hungry... I just love hearing him respond to my calling good or bad, and getting him within that 20 yard range, that's what exciting, the accomplishment of great turkey hunt.

Quote from: Greg Massey on January 26, 2020, 10:05:33 AM
Can you share the name of the video , i would like to see for myself ...

Here's an example.
https://youtu.be/dclBR6PSvwY
I've been in the same situation and done the same. Didn't mean to get as tight as I did but once he hit the ground he was in range and it was game over.

Quote from: GobbleNut on January 26, 2020, 10:22:38 AM
I don't want to point out any particular videos because I, in no way am trying to be critical or cause hard feelings with the folks that make them.  The video I watched just raised the question in my mind about the idea that we hunters are against shooting a gobbler out of the roost, but don't seem to think anything about shooting one right after he hits the ground.  Again,...just seems to be a curious set of ethics we hold...  ....Not wrong or right,...just curious...

Hobbes,...have had the same happen a number of times,...and your thought about drawing the line somewhere is completely on the money.  There just seems to be a gray area regarding roost hunting that raises the ethical question I brought up,...and the line we draw just because of the couple of seconds between that gobbler having his feet on a limb and having them on the ground....

I understand what your saying. I guess it's your own perspective as how a person sees and feels about the turkeys he's hunting ..I agree it's a very gray area ... good post ...

I have to say that idea has always rubbed me the wrong way as well. With my style of hunting I dont really have to worry about it much. I just want to be withing earshot of a tom a daylight and play it from there. However if someone else feels like it's fair game then so be it. To be honest I can only think of one time I intentionally set up under one. I never pulled the trigger on him when he flew down. That bird kicked my rear end bad for a stretch of time and it just felt like a cheap shot for me to take him out that way. But that's just my personal feelings on the matter. If someone else feels ok with it then that's their deal.

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I've often pondered how hunting traditions have evolved.  For example, roost shooting, or even shooting a flying turkey are typically frowned upon.  But then look at wing shooting.  Complete opposite for waterfowl, many frown upon shooting sitting ducks, but it's okay to take hail-mary shots in flight.

Just different views, opinions, ethics I guess.  I myself like to call turkeys in close in a traditional way. 

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I think there's a big difference between shooting one of the tree and waiting till he flies down to shoot.  I've never shot one out of a roost tree and I have no plans to but I believe under the cover of darkness you could do it easily in most situations.  Compare that to the other situation where he flies down before the shot is taken. How do you know which direction he flies down to?  How do you how far he flies from the tree?  There's a big difference between shooting one out of the tree and waiting till he's on the ground. BI agree with what someone has already said.  If he flies down in range,  you either got lucky and picked the right spot or you've put in the time on that bird to know what he was going to do.  Might as well go ahead and take the opportunity that presents itself.   We all need a little luck turkey hunting. 
I watched the Pinhoti episode and I don't think they expected that turkey to fly down that close.  They were prepared to call if needed but luck was on Chubbs side and he took the presented opportunity.
I've killed a few turkeys, all of them I think in an ethical way...but I'm not going to let a turkey walk away just because I wasn't able to make a call...and by the way...I like to get in tight on a bird in some situations. 


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Quote from: Terry on January 26, 2020, 09:53:06 AM
Are you referring to Pinhoti? I believe Mr. Owens has posted on this site before. You could always message him. Get his take on why he did what you're talking about.

I know Dave is a member here,...and I have communicated with him before a few times.  He is a great guy and an even better representative for our sport.  Before he comes on here and thinks I posted this to take pot-shots at him, I want to make it crystal clear that there was no such intent.  I have the utmost respect for his calling abilities, woods skills, and hunting ethics,...and his videos are nothing short of outstanding. 

My entire intent in this discussion was to simply initiate a conversation about something that I thought might stir some thoughts from others.  Dave,...if you're out there,...no offense intended to you or those you hunt with, buddy. Keep up the great work with the videos, my friend.

Like so many of our discussions here on OG, it's a matter of ethics versus legality. It's either legal or it isn't. If it's legal, then it comes down to ethics, and people have different ethics. I don't personally have a problem with shooting a gobbler after it flies down. Then again, it rarely happens for me. If I get in too close, the gobbler usually flies down in the other direction.

 Personally, as long as it's legal then I really try to not pay too much attention to what anybody else does. I don't agree with and have no interest in roost shooting, reaping or using a rifle, but if it's legal where you hunt...have at it.

As far as roost shooting...over the years there have been a couple of occasions where I have roosted a gobbler the evening before, but misjudged his exact location the next morning and either set up within gun range of him on the roost or was within gun range when he pitched down. Honestly, in those situations...I never really had any interest in shooting him.

For me, one of the biggest draws to turkey hunting is getting to hear the bird gobble and I've often joked that when I shoot a gobbler, if he didn't get a sore throat from gobbling to my calling...then it wasn't a good hunt. But, that doesn't mean that a gobbler that comes in silent gets a free pass.
 
So I guess what I'm saying is that I just do what appeals to me.

The older I get the more the hunt means to me, so I feel I'm changing from a killer to a hunter..  But, (their's always a but!!!) if I had my son or any other new to the sport hunter, my pride goes out the window and I'd encourage them to harvest the Tom! 

I hunted with my mom for 3 years before she killed her first and it was in the air after I shot mine and it flew over top us!!!!  Wow we were excited!!!!  Memories to never be forgotten!!!!    Regardless of opinions, the  current situation always dictates our decisions in the heat of the moment!!!!

Almost sounds like I'm an odd ball out here - personally - I love getting in tight to em on the roost.  I really enjoy being there with him when he wakes up.  You hear that plop on the ground near by.. his feathers ruffle, being so close you feel more of his gobble than you hear.  You have all eyes on you, you can't screw up.  You can't swat a mosquito feasting on your temple.  You can't scoot your butt back a couple inches on the seat which will take so much of the pain away.. it's intense. 

I've been pretty ballsy with calling in those situations sometimes too.. Especially if I can see him - I want to make sure he turns on the limb to face me to get him to pitch my way hopefully.  I love calling in turkeys - don't get me wrong... but the flydown is your first opportunity.. And it can be some of the most exciting ways to kill him IMO - as so much can go wrong so quickly - It's nerve wrecking.  Ethically - once he leaves the limb - I vote fair game.  At least to me. Some people like crawling turkeys - I think this method is far more exciting. 

Here's one of my videos from this past spring of doing just this.. he stayed up there waaayy late as well. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwzRz0u_pn0&list=PLxRzrLSvBALh5JpkDsL_mEUjjbbcbOr4P&index=31

Great video as always, Derek.  ..Looking forward to the Bayside Legion spring 2020 edition.

Nothing wrong with that hunt,...called birds off the roost into your lap.  We all love it when it comes together like that!

Again, my initial post was not to criticize anybody for shooting birds in a roost-hunt situation,...whether they are called-to or not.  As I stated, I just find it interesting that us turkey hunters make such a big distinction between shooting a gobbler out of a tree,...and shooting him as soon as his feet hit the ground specifically in those situations where no calling takes place.  We are a fickle bunch in terms of our interpretation of turkey-hunting ethics....

I agree with derek & NC pine chicken. There should be lines not to cross, and mine is either the gobbler is on the roost or off the roost.  If he is off the roost and gets within range, I do my best to kill him. 

Quote from: GobbleNut on January 27, 2020, 10:14:23 AM
Great video as always, Derek.  ..Looking forward to the Bayside Legion spring 2020 edition.

Nothing wrong with that hunt,...called birds off the roost into your lap.  We all love it when it comes together like that!

Again, my initial post was not to criticize anybody for shooting birds in a roost-hunt situation,...whether they are called-to or not.  As I stated, I just find it interesting that us turkey hunters make such a big distinction between shooting a gobbler out of a tree,...and shooting him as soon as his feet hit the ground specifically in those situations where no calling takes place.  We are a fickle bunch in terms of our interpretation of turkey-hunting ethics....

No worries, I did not take it as criticism.  We are certainly a fickle bunch with our own opinions and what works for some may not for the next guy.  As long as it's done in fair chase, all is good. It's an interesting topic for sure.

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Just like any type of hunting, I think it's all personal preference. If it's not illegal then by all means. I'm not one for shooting them out of the tree, but that's my personal preference. Wouldn't look down on someone that has scouted hard, and put in a lot of time to get that close to take one off the roost. My hat goes off to them.

How many states allow roost shooting? And I wonder if it has something to do with birds being easy targets while in the trees and the early days when perhaps there were no limits on numbers.I too understand the skill of those hunters who consistently slip in close to roost but for most hunter's it does not make for a great story when the final result is a bird killed on the roost. But that is subjective as was the discussion years ago with some Florida hunters over hunting deer with dogs as they do there and over bait as we did at the time in Michigan.

I've got no issue with it. In fact I find it hard to do, most of the time I get that close it normally ends with me buggering up that bird, at least for a few hours.

My question to all of you is shooting a tree hopper OK? I've got no issue at all killing it.

Not always, but generally when we think of ethics, it's in the context of an unfair advantage for us over the game we hunt.  Baiting, hunting from ATVs ect (when legal of course) 

When I think about the OP scenario, in my personal experience, if I try to slip in under a roosted gobbler, 9 times out of 10, I'm going to mess it up.  It's not easy to do by any means-at least any of the states I hunt. 

I don't think it's an unfair advantage.  In fact, in most cases, can be down right difficult.  I don't see it in the same category of advantage such as shooting a bird on a limb with his head still tucked under it's wing. 

I realize that's not a hard line, but just a thought.

I've never killed a gobbler right at flydown, but I've had a turkey make a fool out of me too many times when I thought I had a great setup off the roost to think I have an unfair advantage.

Quote from: Delmar ODonnell on January 28, 2020, 12:59:31 PM
I've never killed a gobbler right at flydown, but I've had a turkey make a fool out of me too many times when I thought I had a great setup off the roost to think I have an unfair advantage.

I have, but it's the exception, not the rule. As Will Primos says, "Roosted ain't roasted!!" :funnyturkey:

My question to all of you is shooting a tree hopper OK? I've got no issue at all killing it.

I have only seen it happen twice. Once was a Tom that I was working finally broke after I did a 180 degree circle on him. Caught a glimpse of him in a small clearing headed my way at about 75 yards. He flew up into a tree and sat there for easy a half hour surveying the scene and then coasted off. I would have killed him though. Second was a bird that tree hopped his way in and then dropped to the ground about 50 yards out. He proceeded to trot into range. Pedro took care of him pretty quickly.

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I'll shoot the tree out from under one who is responding and coming to my calling.  But would never think about shooting one where he spent the night.