It's been several years since I have had to pick a new load. I won't bore with the details, but have a few simple questions.
Do hevi shot (standard waterfowl) 6's really hit like lead fives?
Does anyone use standard hevi-shot to hunt turkeys, or is everyone using hevi 13?
Are 3rd degree shells all they are cracked up to be?
I want a solid 40 yard shell that can have a decent pattern at close range and will cover my rear if I make a mistake out to 50 yards. I know, same as everyone,
Recently I shot longbeard 5's but my 10 yard pattern is rediculous and I missed one this year at that range.
I am building a new turkey gun and am kicking around switching it all up. I accidentally bought triple beard 5,6,7 thinking they were a hevi shot mixture. Not sure what the point of lead 6's and 7's are beyond 35 yards. Lol.
Love my mag blends
Mag blends patterned poorly out of my 870. Gave them to my nephew and they patterned very nice in his Nova.
Penetration and energy for shotguns:
I had a link to a table, but lost it.
Roughly,
TSS -5 sizes
Heavyweight -3 sizes
Hevi -2 sizes
Lead
So, #4 lead = #6 Hevi = #7 Heavyweight = # 9 TSS Not exact, but if you look at the tables, it is pretty close.
I use tss 9s in one gun and longbeard #5 in another. most any conventional turkey load will give you the performance you desire. I agree the longbeards are a little tight up close. a good halographic sight helps a lot.
It sucks to have to burn the hole in your pocket but what shoots in yours will shoot different in mine so you'll have to buy different loads and see which your gun likes. It's a good time because very soon everyone will have all their turkey loads on clearance. My gun likes the mag blends and Hevi 13#6. Don't get me wrong the longbeards are cheap and shoot good but shoot them through a sheet of tin vs Hevi and see what you think about them then. They don't penetrate.
It's like buy the shells and develop your gun around what you wanting to shoot...with these new loads, guns and chokes... it's all different now...
I have had pretty good luck with 3 inch 12 ga.Federal,Winchester,And Remington 2 oz loads in #5 or #6 shot . I do usually shoot with a turkey choke but I have had a few different guns over the years and all have patterned pretty well out to 50 yds. I haven't felt the need to spend the big bucks on the fancy shells. I am not saying that the 20$ for five rounds ammo might not put a couple more BB's in the kill zone they may or maybe not. I just haven't felt handicapped enough to want to spend the extra money on them when I can kill consistently with the regular shells. I would rather spend that extra money on a couple different chokes to try . I currently shoot a kicks choke,but you could always sell the choke you don't like to try a different one. Or find a buddy or 2 who might have a different choke that you can try to see which one you like. Good luck and I hope it goes smooth for you.
for a solid40 yard and a decent close range pattern I say fed hvywt 7s.. they work for me with a hard hitting yet forgiving pattern
Had good luck with Long Beard #5's
Federal pb with flight control in 3in shoots well out of my early 90's Remington. "Old shool"
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Quote from: Poleaxe on May 06, 2017, 11:09:51 PM
It sucks to have to burn the hole in your pocket but what shoots in yours will shoot different in mine so you'll have to buy different loads and see which your gun likes. It's a good time because very soon everyone will have all their turkey loads on clearance. My gun likes the mag blends and Hevi 13#6. Don't get me wrong the longbeards are cheap and shoot good but shoot them through a sheet of tin vs Hevi and see what you think about them then. They don't penetrate.
they penetrate just fine if you keep your shots at 40ysd with a little wiggle room. were not hunting sheets of tin.
Nothing is going to pattern at 10. You re going to get a pile of pellets the size of a baseball at best. a 50 cent piece at worst.
You either have to lower the shot to where the neck meets the body so you have a bit more target to work with or let the bird get out a bit further.
You gotta check your gun n see what it likes. I usually shoot straight lead but have patterned the mag blends as posted by some n they did well.
Now you shouldn't be talking about 50 yard "mistakes". That's half a football field n if you can't tell that's real far get a range finder., if you can't judge 40 n it could be 50, maybe you'll figure it's 45 n still in your range n it'll be 55? See what I'm getting at. Shoot n call em closer it's not life or death we kill a bird. Good luck w the gun
Quote from: Poleaxe on May 06, 2017, 11:09:51 PM
It sucks to have to burn the hole in your pocket but what shoots in yours will shoot different in mine so you'll have to buy different loads and see which your gun likes. It's a good time because very soon everyone will have all their turkey loads on clearance. My gun likes the mag blends and Hevi 13#6. Don't get me wrong the longbeards are cheap and shoot good but shoot them through a sheet of tin vs Hevi and see what you think about them then. They don't penetrate.
You people are funny.
I flat knocked a gobbler out cold at 37 steps yesterday morning with good old fashioned lead. Longbeard #5s to be exact. Knocked him straight backwards and he laid there with his toes curled up in the air.
As a matter of fact, I shot my limit of Gobblers every year for the past 5 years with copper plated lead longbeards.
What is it exactly that they don't do again?
Good thing we are hunting turkey gobblers and not sheets of tin.
[quote author=g8rvet link=topic=74419.msg724553#msg724553 date=1494120075
Penetration and energy for shotguns:
I had a link to a table, but lost it.
Roughly,
TSS -5 sizes
Heavyweight -3 sizes
Hevi -2 sizes
Lead
So, #4 lead = #6 Hevi = #7 Heavyweight = # 9 TSS Not exact, but if you look at the tables, it is pretty close.
[/quote]
Lead = Dead
Hevi = Deader
Heavywieght = Deader'er
TSS = Deadest
;D
Quote from: Number17 on May 07, 2017, 09:32:10 AM
Quote from: Poleaxe on May 06, 2017, 11:09:51 PM
It sucks to have to burn the hole in your pocket but what shoots in yours will shoot different in mine so you'll have to buy different loads and see which your gun likes. It's a good time because very soon everyone will have all their turkey loads on clearance. My gun likes the mag blends and Hevi 13#6. Don't get me wrong the longbeards are cheap and shoot good but shoot them through a sheet of tin vs Hevi and see what you think about them then. They don't penetrate.
You people are funny.
I flat knocked a gobbler out cold at 37 steps yesterday morning with good old fashioned lead. Longbeard #5s to be exact. Knocked him straight backwards and he laid there with his toes curled up in the air.
As a matter of fact, I shot my limit of Gobblers every year for the past 5 years with copper plated lead longbeards.
What is it exactly that they don't do again?
Wow! Long beards have been out for 5 years already? Man time flies!
Quote from: Number17 on May 07, 2017, 09:32:10 AM
Quote from: Poleaxe on May 06, 2017, 11:09:51 PM
It sucks to have to burn the hole in your pocket but what shoots in yours will shoot different in mine so you'll have to buy different loads and see which your gun likes. It's a good time because very soon everyone will have all their turkey loads on clearance. My gun likes the mag blends and Hevi 13#6. Don't get me wrong the longbeards are cheap and shoot good but shoot them through a sheet of tin vs Hevi and see what you think about them then. They don't penetrate.
You people are funny.
I flat knocked a gobbler out cold at 37 steps yesterday morning with good old fashioned lead. Longbeard #5s to be exact. Knocked him straight backwards and he laid there with his toes curled up in the air.
As a matter of fact, I shot my limit of Gobblers every year for the past 5 years with copper plated lead longbeards.
What is it exactly that they don't do again?
Too much over thinking :turkey2:
Quote from: mtns2hunt on May 07, 2017, 11:40:42 AM
Quote from: Number17 on May 07, 2017, 09:32:10 AM
Quote from: Poleaxe on May 06, 2017, 11:09:51 PM
It sucks to have to burn the hole in your pocket but what shoots in yours will shoot different in mine so you'll have to buy different loads and see which your gun likes. It's a good time because very soon everyone will have all their turkey loads on clearance. My gun likes the mag blends and Hevi 13#6. Don't get me wrong the longbeards are cheap and shoot good but shoot them through a sheet of tin vs Hevi and see what you think about them then. They don't penetrate.
You people are funny.
I flat knocked a gobbler out cold at 37 steps yesterday morning with good old fashioned lead. Longbeard #5s to be exact. Knocked him straight backwards and he laid there with his toes curled up in the air.
As a matter of fact, I shot my limit of Gobblers every year for the past 5 years with copper plated lead longbeards.
What is it exactly that they don't do again?
Too much over thinking :turkey2:
Exactly. If patterned correctly, one shot type should be able to kill 99.99% of the birds that any other type can.
Whatever shell launched them at 1200fps I suppose is irrelevant because copper plated lead is still copper plated lead no matter how it's packaged.
To say that they don't penetrate it patently false. They have been knocking birds dead for decades.
What is this range where Hevi-12 will penetrate and Lead-11 will not? I've got a few Hevi shells left from a few years ago that I refuse to hunt with because of their lack of consistency and quality control. (remember putting wood glue on the crimps so the buffer didn't leak all over the place?)
I'd like to test this for myself.
It ain't rocket science that when you shoot at 3 birds at 30 or less and feathers fly everywhere but the bird flys off then you ain't gonna talk me into shooting the same shells again. You get what you pay for. Maybe there's a reason the LB's are some of the cheapest sold. I wouldn't shoot a shell I knew would penetrate either. Keep up the good work tho.
If you hit em where you should have at 30 yards they would be dead, shell got nothin to do w/ it. Mike
Quote from: Ozarks Hillbilly on May 07, 2017, 10:47:40 AM
[quote author=g8rvet link=topic=74419.msg724553#msg724553 date=1494120075
Penetration and energy for shotguns:
I had a link to a table, but lost it.
Roughly,
TSS -5 sizes
Heavyweight -3 sizes
Hevi -2 sizes
Lead
So, #4 lead = #6 Hevi = #7 Heavyweight = # 9 TSS Not exact, but if you look at the tables, it is pretty close.
Lead = Dead
Hevi = Deader
Heavywieght = Deader'er
TSS = Deadest
;D
[/quote]
I'm holding out until they come out with a shell that kills them deadester. I want no survivors.
Yea. It ain't rocket science that when you shot at 3 at 30 yards or less and all the birds flew off you missed the vitals all three times. Can't blame lead shot for your failure to place your shot in the vitals.
Quote from: Poleaxe on May 07, 2017, 02:57:43 PM
It ain't rocket science that when you shoot at 3 birds at 30 or less and feathers fly everywhere but the bird flys off then you ain't gonna talk me into shooting the same shells again.
Guess this makes me question why were you shooting them in their feathered areas?
Quote from: Number17 on May 07, 2017, 11:53:41 AM
Whatever shell launched them at 1200fps I suppose is irrelevant because copper plated lead is still copper plated lead no matter how it's packaged.
To say that they don't penetrate it patently false. They have been knocking birds dead for decades.
What is this range where Hevi-12 will penetrate and Lead-11 will not? I've got a few Hevi shells left from a few years ago that I refuse to hunt with because of their lack of consistency and quality control. (remember putting wood glue on the crimps so the buffer didn't leak all over the place?)
I'd like to test this for myself.
Good question, but I think you are really missing the point for ethical turkey hunters. And by ethical, I mean hunters that restrict their shots to 40 yards. When I step off 40 yards, that is really 10 yards farther than 90% of the birds we kill.
When most folks want the HTL, they want it for the better patterns, not the increased kill range. What HTL does, if you look at my quote, is let you put more pellets in the 10" circle (and therefore the turkeys head and neck) with effectiveness because you can shoot smaller shot sizes. At 25 yards, there is no difference in all the options. The ethical hunter wants the best available patterns for their gun. If there is any chance someone will be shooting between 25 and 40 yards, then they should make every effort to kill the bird humanely and effectively. If lead does that in your gun, no reason to waste money. If it does not, then shooting HTL will often be the answer. It also gives you a more forgiving pattern at 10 yards, which we all know is quite regular. I have let 2 different birds get a little further away, because I had more confidence at 15 yards than I did at 6 with my gun.
Really all depends on the gun. Here are my two cents worth...a straight load of Hevi 13 #7's is always a good bet. Now that Longbeard is here I would probably start out with a box of 6's and see what you think
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Just remember when you get to buy some you get what you pay for. I don't care if I make a bad shot on one or a head shot I want to know what I'm shooting is gonna kill it and LB wernt doing the job for me. That's great if Joe blow killed one with them at 50yrds. I didn't see that so why keep shooting something your not happy with the performance? Nah thanks. I'm gonna spend a little more money on something better I have confidence in.
Quote from: Poleaxe on May 07, 2017, 07:32:43 PM
Just remember when you get to buy some you get what you pay for. I don't care if I make a bad shot on one or a head shot I want to know what I'm shooting is gonna kill it and LB wernt doing the job for me. That's great if Joe blow killed one with them at 50yrds. I didn't see that so why keep shooting something your not happy with the performance? Nah thanks. I'm gonna spend a little more money on something better I have confidence in.
It wasn't the shells fault I can assure you of that......
A bad shot is a bad shot no matter what shell you shoot. No shot material that you use is a substitute for poor shot placement. Anyone can make a bad shot or 3 from time to time but placing the blame on the shell when it was really the shooter's fault is ridiculous. Let's not mislead new hunters into believing lead is somehow inadequate and that TSS/ HTL or whatever else makes up for poor shooting.
You have a simple mind hunt. If
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Nah, I think it is just where your over analytical, condescending mindset has done blocked all your common sense, if you ever had any. Nonetheless, coming from someone such as yourself, I will consider it a compliment. Anything that is an antonym for what you are is exactly what I am by design.
LOL.
It kinda is a compliment. You just do what you were taught and have always done, without introspection and thought. Would be easier to be like that.
I have never been condescending to a single sole on here or other forums that were not like that first.
The funny thing is, that if you and I met in person, I would expect we would have a lot more in common and probably get along just fine.
Wow, this took a bad turn while I was out today. Lol.
Thanks for the help.
There's a couple of companies dabbling in TSS in the coming year(s), if you don't want to fool with loading it yourself.
Mag blends have never patterned well out of ANY of my guns. Longbeards pattern well, although at long ranges, the lethality of lead diminishes. Hevi shot #6 patterns well for me. As for non-TSS loads, 4x5x7 from Nitro Company has always been the best patterning loads for me.
Yes, I agree we would get along just fine in person. We can probably get along just fine on here as well.