Just FYI, I was looking at the VDGIF Board Agenda for tomorrow and the Board will act on a staff recommendation banning fanning/reaping. The rationale section indicates that there has been one fatality in VA that resulted from fanning, apparently two guys were hunting on private land and one shot the other. I had not heard anything about it before this.
Here's an article from 2013...
http://pilotonline.com/news/virginia-beach-hunter-fatally-shot-in-sussex-county/article_7c81a9c5-830a-5dfe-92a4-5cacdc573bd9.html
Doesn't specifically mention "fanning", but does indicate intentional trigger pull at misidentified target.
I knew about this incident, I have quail hunted in the area where the guy was killed. No one in the club ever said anything about fanning in relation to this fatality but it could be the one.
It's about time. Common sense.
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I had a non fanning incident once where a buddy and I were working several birds from above and had another hunter stalk in from below and take a shot with the birds directly in between us. the roll of the ground fortunately had the shot column sail directly over head but my heart has never pumped that fast in the woods. Neither of us were aware of the other presence as we had parked and approached from opposite sides of the property. While this had nothing to do with fanning or reaping or even the use of decoys it is the reason i dont employ the reaping technique because I saw first hand how easy it would be for a situation like that to go bad just once and not end well. He saw the birds from the road, stalked them and shot at a red head the second he poked through a hedge row. He ended up killing a jake and not even getting one of the 3 long beards present so I know he didn't fully identify his target.
I try and use this story and warning when my father uses reaping but he won't listen and I do fear for his safety. Its really not a law that can be enforced well thus guys who do it will still probably continue to do it I just think its am unwise safety concern like not wearing a harness in a tree.
Quote from: beakbuster10 on February 21, 2017, 10:40:12 AM
It's about time. Common sense.
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Common sense? Hahahaha
You do realize more people have been and will continue to be shot just from moving and using a turkey call right! Hows that for common sense. Maybe you should stop using calls and try to get them banned to! That way everyone can have "common sense" and you can be happy that you made everyone hunt how you think is the right way. OR......... You just mind your own buisness and hunt how you want and let others hunt how they want and dont worry about what others do.
No matter what actually happened it is still the fellow behind the guns fault. Gun safety goes a long way. Is crawling behind a fan a good Idea? In my opinion no. But I don't condone gobbling either. People get shot just by moving their hands while calling. I hate to hear of anyone getting shot. There is no justification for not knowing your target.
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Quote from: TauntoHawk on February 21, 2017, 11:08:05 AM
I had a non fanning incident once where a buddy and I were working several birds from above and had another hunter stalk in from below and take a shot with the birds directly in between us. the roll of the ground fortunately had the shot column sail directly over head but my heart has never pumped that fast in the woods. Neither of us were aware of the other presence as we had parked and approached from opposite sides of the property. While this had nothing to do with fanning or reaping or even the use of decoys it is the reason i dont employ the reaping technique because I saw first hand how easy it would be for a situation like that to go bad just once and not end well. He saw the birds from the road, stalked them and shot at a red head the second he poked through a hedge row. He ended up killing a jake and not even getting one of the 3 long beards present so I know he didn't fully identify his target.
I try and use this story and warning when my father uses reaping but he won't listen and I do fear for his safety. Its really not a law that can be enforced well thus guys who do it will still probably continue to do it I just think its am unwise safety concern like not wearing a harness in a tree.
Can I ask what state you was hunting in when this took place ?
Quote from: Happy on February 22, 2017, 08:25:13 PM
No matter what actually happened it is still the fellow behind the guns fault. Gun safety goes a long way. Is crawling behind a fan a good Idea? In my opinion no. But I don't condone gobbling either. People get shot just by moving their hands while calling. I hate to hear of anyone getting shot. There is no justification for not knowing your target.
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I think shooting a strutting turkey up the rump is a lethal shot and target was indentified as strutting turkey. I believe it is the fanners fault.
Quote from: Happy on February 22, 2017, 08:25:13 PM
No matter what actually happened it is still the fellow behind the guns fault. Gun safety goes a long way. Is crawling behind a fan a good Idea? In my opinion no. But I don't condone gobbling either. People get shot just by moving their hands while calling. I hate to hear of anyone getting shot. There is no justification for not knowing your target.
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Exactly! While I would not feel safe doing it, and have never tried it (PA law is hunting by calling only) it is still insanely stupid to take a shot without knowing your target. I was taught to positively identity not one but several parts of an animal before even thinking of shooting. A few years ago an acquaintance killed a hen in the spring season. He said he heard a bird gobble and then saw something that "looked like a turkey" in the brush so he shot it. I told him he's lucky it wasn't another hunter that he shot. He didn't think that he did anything wrong! In the end, there is no excuse for not identifying your target. Not just the fan. The whole dang turkey!
Quote from: Farmboy27 on February 22, 2017, 08:51:08 PM
Quote from: Happy on February 22, 2017, 08:25:13 PM
No matter what actually happened it is still the fellow behind the guns fault. Gun safety goes a long way. Is crawling behind a fan a good Idea? In my opinion no. But I don't condone gobbling either. People get shot just by moving their hands while calling. I hate to hear of anyone getting shot. There is no justification for not knowing your target.
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Exactly! While I would not feel safe doing it, and have never tried it (PA law is hunting by calling only) it is still insanely stupid to take a shot without knowing your target. I was taught to positively identity not one but several parts of an animal before even thinking of shooting. A few years ago an acquaintance killed a hen in the spring season. He said he heard a bird gobble and then saw something that "looked like a turkey" in the brush so he shot it. I told him he's lucky it wasn't another hunter that he shot. He didn't think that he did anything wrong! In the end, there is no excuse for not identifying your target. Not just the fan. The whole dang turkey!
Have you ever shot one in the mountains when he peeps his head over? I have many times and will again I hope.
Quote from: WV Ridge Reaper on February 22, 2017, 08:39:24 PM
Quote from: TauntoHawk on February 21, 2017, 11:08:05 AM
I had a non fanning incident once where a buddy and I were working several birds from above and had another hunter stalk in from below and take a shot with the birds directly in between us. the roll of the ground fortunately had the shot column sail directly over head but my heart has never pumped that fast in the woods. Neither of us were aware of the other presence as we had parked and approached from opposite sides of the property. While this had nothing to do with fanning or reaping or even the use of decoys it is the reason i dont employ the reaping technique because I saw first hand how easy it would be for a situation like that to go bad just once and not end well. He saw the birds from the road, stalked them and shot at a red head the second he poked through a hedge row. He ended up killing a jake and not even getting one of the 3 long beards present so I know he didn't fully identify his target.
I try and use this story and warning when my father uses reaping but he won't listen and I do fear for his safety. Its really not a law that can be enforced well thus guys who do it will still probably continue to do it I just think its am unwise safety concern like not wearing a harness in a tree.
Can I ask what state you was hunting in when this took place ?
Sure thing, happened in NY state on private ground but one that I do not frequent and was unfamiliar with who else had access.
Let me clarify my position, I don't think there should necessarily be a law to make this illegal. I don't think we need more laws on hunting methods and I honestly don't think making it illegal will stop people from doing it. I don't do it, and I'd encourage others to not for safety reasons. I don't begrudge or hold I'll will against someone who would choose to employ the method though.
Of course there's more "other" accidents since only a small number of turkey hunters practice this method and virtually all hunters call and make turkey sounds.
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Quote from: snapper1982 on February 22, 2017, 08:15:58 PM
Quote from: beakbuster10 on February 21, 2017, 10:40:12 AM
It's about time. Common sense.
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Common sense? Hahahaha
You do realize more people have been and will continue to be shot just from moving and using a turkey call right! Hows that for common sense. Maybe you should stop using calls and try to get them banned to! That way everyone can have "common sense" and you can be happy that you made everyone hunt how you think is the right way. OR......... You just mind your own buisness and hunt how you want and let others hunt how they want and dont worry about what others do.
So because more people have been killed by simply being in the woods or sounding like a turkey, it's perfectly logical to dress up like one. . . ?
More people are killed by dogs than great white sharks. Would you be more comfortable dressing up like your dogs food and laying in the floor with him, or dressing up like a seal and going for a swim of Seal Island in South Africa?
Turkey call = sounds like a turkey (a hen at that more than 9 times out of 10)
Reaping = see following numbered list
1. Using a realistic, sometimes almost perfect (DSD), imitation of the only legal turkey to kill in the spring
2. Mimicking very closely the biotic movement of the aforementioned game.
3. Being in direct proximity (less than arms reach) to the aforementioned imitation.
4. More often than not wearing full camo, including gloves and face masks, while belly crawling to have yourself as completely unrecognizable as possible.
Real brain buster there as to which one gives you a better chance of fooling someone into shooting you in the face. . .
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excuse ME, when someone shoots at a turkey, I believe you need to see a beard, RIGHT! And be sure it's a legal bird, right! Someone shoots without positively identifying the target , they should be faulted. Fanning is a joke, people make fun of motorized decoy and then go fanning. Who shoots at a fan anyway? Pure stupidity. Who crawls around on there belly acting like a turkey and then is disturbed when they get their eyes blown out by some dunb . Is this how desperate people are to kill a bird? CRAZY, is what I say. I hope they stop this bull crap, at least where I hunt. Next will be mandatory blaze orange. Keep it up, someone is going to get killed.
Come on fellows !!!!
You have to see your target Right
Not his head or fan or any other PART of him you have to see all of him.
Then make a clean and legally ethic shot. How are you going to do this and
shoot at a man behind a fan at 40 yards or less.
Now with that being said if you are shooting at a sound you may very well
shoot a man , so no matter how you choose to work a bird, picking a clear
shot at a bird in the open is the only option we have .
Please be safe , know your target and beyond, that way we all stay safe.
Quote from: turkaholic on February 23, 2017, 05:57:39 AM
excuse ME, when someone shoots at a turkey, I believe you need to see a beard, RIGHT! And be sure it's a legal bird, right! Someone shoots without positively identifying the target , they should be faulted. Fanning is a joke, people make fun of motorized decoy and then go fanning. Who shoots at a fan anyway? Pure stupidity. Who crawls around on there belly acting like a turkey and then is disturbed when they get their eyes blown out by some dunb . Is this how desperate people are to kill a bird? CRAZY, is what I say. I hope they stop this bull crap, at least where I hunt. Next will be mandatory blaze orange. Keep it up, someone is going to get killed.
Exactly. When spring hunting, most states require that you actually see a beard before pulling the trigger. That is the final step in identifying a legal gobbler.
Quote from: Strutr on February 23, 2017, 08:00:03 AM
Quote from: turkaholic on February 23, 2017, 05:57:39 AM
excuse ME, when someone shoots at a turkey, I believe you need to see a beard, RIGHT! And be sure it's a legal bird, right! Someone shoots without positively identifying the target , they should be faulted. Fanning is a joke, people make fun of motorized decoy and then go fanning. Who shoots at a fan anyway? Pure stupidity. Who crawls around on there belly acting like a turkey and then is disturbed when they get their eyes blown out by some dunb . Is this how desperate people are to kill a bird? CRAZY, is what I say. I hope they stop this bull crap, at least where I hunt. Next will be mandatory blaze orange. Keep it up, someone is going to get killed.
Exactly. When spring hunting, most states require that you actually see a beard before pulling the trigger. That is the final step in identifying a legal gobbler.
Out of the states I hunt, only one requires adult gobbler. Just so happens that one can identify a mature gobbler by what, u got it, a full fan. Fanning is done with the back of the fan toward the target. While I would not shoot one in the butt on purpose, I'm sure others will. I just couldn't hold the shooter at fault for shooting a strutter in knee high grass.
Guys arguing who's to blame is unnecessary don't you think.. Anytime a firearm is discharged the only person responsible is the individual who pulled the trigger, i'm not talking fanning or hunt i'm talking about the act of discharging a firearm.
That said putting yourself at risk of being shot is generally considered unwise, I would not walk around using a Montana deer decoy during our firearm deer season.
Quote from: Blong on February 23, 2017, 08:15:31 AM
Quote from: Strutr on February 23, 2017, 08:00:03 AM
Quote from: turkaholic on February 23, 2017, 05:57:39 AM
excuse ME, when someone shoots at a turkey, I believe you need to see a beard, RIGHT! And be sure it's a legal bird, right! Someone shoots without positively identifying the target , they should be faulted. Fanning is a joke, people make fun of motorized decoy and then go fanning. Who shoots at a fan anyway? Pure stupidity. Who crawls around on there belly acting like a turkey and then is disturbed when they get their eyes blown out by some dunb . Is this how desperate people are to kill a bird? CRAZY, is what I say. I hope they stop this bull crap, at least where I hunt. Next will be mandatory blaze orange. Keep it up, someone is going to get killed.
Exactly. When spring hunting, most states require that you actually see a beard before pulling the trigger. That is the final step in identifying a legal gobbler.
Out of the states I hunt, only one requires adult gobbler. Just so happens that one can identify a mature gobbler by what, u got it, a full fan. Fanning is done with the back of the fan toward the target. While I would not shoot one in the butt on purpose, I'm sure others will. I just couldn't hold the shooter at fault for shooting a strutter in knee high grass.
In my home state you can only harvest a bearded bird. Yes, you can tell a mature bird by several different indicators but it must have a beard. I've actually seen plenty of mature toms with no beards. Lost them for whatever reason. In my state that is an illegal bird. Shooting at a bird that pops his head up over a ridge like you mentioned is sky-lining, I choose not to do that either and it is also illegal in several states during big game seasons.
What happened to the old fashioned way of calling a turkey in, your call of choice. Putting yourself in jeopardy of being shot by looking like a turkey, it's your own fault.
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Don't know if this been mentioned but the state that this topic is about allows rifles for spring hunting and plenty people use them in spring. There ain't enough money in world to make me carry around a fan in Va with people dropping birds at 100 yards plus with .223
Quote from: BowBendr on February 23, 2017, 08:36:35 AM
Quote from: Blong on February 23, 2017, 08:15:31 AM
Quote from: Strutr on February 23, 2017, 08:00:03 AM
Quote from: turkaholic on February 23, 2017, 05:57:39 AM
excuse ME, when someone shoots at a turkey, I believe you need to see a beard, RIGHT! And be sure it's a legal bird, right! Someone shoots without positively identifying the target , they should be faulted. Fanning is a joke, people make fun of motorized decoy and then go fanning. Who shoots at a fan anyway? Pure stupidity. Who crawls around on there belly acting like a turkey and then is disturbed when they get their eyes blown out by some dunb . Is this how desperate people are to kill a bird? CRAZY, is what I say. I hope they stop this bull crap, at least where I hunt. Next will be mandatory blaze orange. Keep it up, someone is going to get killed.
Exactly. When spring hunting, most states require that you actually see a beard before pulling the trigger. That is the final step in identifying a legal gobbler.
Out of the states I hunt, only one requires adult gobbler. Just so happens that one can identify a mature gobbler by what, u got it, a full fan. Fanning is done with the back of the fan toward the target. While I would not shoot one in the butt on purpose, I'm sure others will. I just couldn't hold the shooter at fault for shooting a strutter in knee high grass.
In my home state you can only harvest a bearded bird. Yes, you can tell a mature bird by several different indicators but it must have a beard. I've actually seen plenty of mature toms with no beards. Lost them for whatever reason. In my state that is an illegal bird. Shooting at a bird that pops his head up over a ridge like you mentioned is sky-lining, I choose not to do that either and it is also illegal in several states during big game seasons.
We will just have to agree to disagree. If shooting one when he peaks over a shelf, bench or coming up a steep hill where visibility is limited is illegal , then I will just be illegal. Killed 3 in Tn a few years back, all inside 25 yds and saw nothing but waddles up on everyone.
Safety is the whole reason for this to be brought up. I can duct tape a strutting decoy to my back and slither thru a field like a snake and kill a gobbler that way but is it safe, H no! Hunting accidents are what we all want to avoid ever happening, because accidents can lead to fatalities. We have a responsibility as hunters to make CORRECT choices while we are hunting, know what your shooting at and know its a legal target. VA is a state where you can legally hunt with a rifle, therefore you can see our DGIF's concern with this practice in turkey hunting. The likely hood of rifles being made illegal to hunt turkeys with in our state is slim to none. That would open up a 2nd amendment can o' worms that they don't want to deal with.
That's not turkey hunting in my book. That's someone that can't call a turkey in.
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The fanning is a separate issue to me. On the safety side, you couldn't pay me a million dollars to do it in a state that allows rifles for spring turkey. I know how far them boys shoot up there...
Quote from: Treerooster on February 23, 2017, 09:24:16 AM
Humans have a way of improving things until they no longer resemble whatever it originally was (FUBAR). Turkey hunting is no exception. Soon the "new" becomes the norm. Just look at HTL loads now. Not everybody shoots them but it is not out of the ordinary anymore, and they a more lethal to whatever they hit.
When I first got into turkey hunting safety was a big subject. One of the things that was stressed was not to wear red, blue, or white as these are the colors found on a gobblers head. I don't hear that a whole lot anymore and nothing about acting and looking like a gobbler. It was also advised that stalking a turkey was dangerous. That's out the window now too.
There is a phenomenon where a person can see something that really isn't there. When conditions are right the brain can "fill in" the missing parts and someone actually believes he sees a turkey or whatever he is looking so hard for. Its hard to imagine, but I think it does happen. Not all shooting incidents result from that phenomenon, but I truly think some do.
Fanning is not just a turkey fan anymore either. Just look in a turkey hunting catalogue and you will see plenty of products built for the purpose. Some have the front part of a gobbler on a stick, head beard and tail fan. Some use a full strut decoy to sneak up on a turkey.
Right now fanning, or reaping is done mostly in a field. Remember FUBAR. It won't be long before someone gets the idea to do it in the woods. Here is a scenario. Hunter #1 is set up in the woods calling, no decoy just him. Hunter #2 is nearby with his 'gobbler on a stick' and hears turkeys. So he decides to investigate and as he gets close and goes to crawling with his stick gobbler in front of him. Hunter #2 (the caller) sees something coming to his calling, its a turkey but something doesn't look quite right. He gets his gun up but he is still not sure of what he is seeing. Hunter #1 sees the "turkey he heard" moving and fires. The fanner/reaper didn't get shot in this scenario, but he easily could have been. When I was taught safety in turkey hunting, stalking was dangerous not to the stalker, but to the possible hunter he was stalking!
I use to have a safety post on this forum that was a sticky up at the top. My friend James got shot by his BIL Fred. They were on private land. The main point I made in that post was;
If you think you could never be shot you are a danger to yourself. If you think you could never shoot someone you are a danger to others.
Always keep safety in your thoughts when going to unleash that string of shot. You don't want to end up like this AND you don't want to be the guy that caused it either.
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r221/Treerooster/JamesX-raySideView_zps48fd345a.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Treerooster/media/JamesX-raySideView_zps48fd345a.jpg.html)
BTW James survived and continues to turkey hunt to this day.
I'm glad someone looks at logically. Imagine a strutter popping over a subtle rise in front of you, up to where you can see his beard.
According to many replies above, you're good to go to shoot. Except for the fact that the strutter is a DSD, and right behind that beard you just confirmed is someone's face.
Glad your buddy made a full recovery and is still able to hunt.
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Any hunter using reaping as a technique should be smart enough to understand the risks. Any hunter shooting a turkey ought to be smart enough to positively identify his target as a real bird.
Stupid can hurt.
Quote from: Blong on February 22, 2017, 09:25:59 PM
Quote from: Farmboy27 on February 22, 2017, 08:51:08 PM
Quote from: Happy on February 22, 2017, 08:25:13 PM
No matter what actually happened it is still the fellow behind the guns fault. Gun safety goes a long way. Is crawling behind a fan a good Idea? In my opinion no. But I don't condone gobbling either. People get shot just by moving their hands while calling. I hate to hear of anyone getting shot. There is no justification for not knowing your target.
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Exactly! While I would not feel safe doing it, and have never tried it (PA law is hunting by calling only) it is still insanely stupid to take a shot without knowing your target. I was taught to positively identity not one but several parts of an animal before even thinking of shooting. A few years ago an acquaintance killed a hen in the spring season. He said he heard a bird gobble and then saw something that "looked like a turkey" in the brush so he shot it. I told him he's lucky it wasn't another hunter that he shot. He didn't think that he did anything wrong! In the end, there is no excuse for not identifying your target. Not just the fan. The whole dang turkey!
Have you ever shot one in the mountains when he peeps his head over? I have many times and will again I hope.
Blong, With people like you in the woods, this is why people get shot. You have broken 2 cardinal rules of hunting. First you didn't verify your target. You said HE sticks his head up over a hill. You don't know if it is a he or she or someone with a fan because you are only seeing the head. Two, you can not be sure that this bird has a visible beard (and most states require only killing birds with visible beards). You hear gobbling and you get caught up in the excitement of the hunt and shoot at a head. NOPE. My 2 cents. As far as fanning, I wouldn't do it but I don't think it should be regulated. We hunters need to verify our targets, make sure we follow the rules already in place and practice all the safety rules that apply to hunting. NO hunter should be shot at the expense of, "I thought it was a Turkey." Get him out in the WIDE open and make sure or let him WALK!
You know its getting close to season when we have the annual discussion on fanning and does weather get em started early
Quote from: bbcoach on February 23, 2017, 10:00:36 AM
Quote from: Blong on February 22, 2017, 09:25:59 PM
Quote from: Farmboy27 on February 22, 2017, 08:51:08 PM
Quote from: Happy on February 22, 2017, 08:25:13 PM
No matter what actually happened it is still the fellow behind the guns fault. Gun safety goes a long way. Is crawling behind a fan a good Idea? In my opinion no. But I don't condone gobbling either. People get shot just by moving their hands while calling. I hate to hear of anyone getting shot. There is no justification for not knowing your target.
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Exactly! While I would not feel safe doing it, and have never tried it (PA law is hunting by calling only) it is still insanely stupid to take a shot without knowing your target. I was taught to positively identity not one but several parts of an animal before even thinking of shooting. A few years ago an acquaintance killed a hen in the spring season. He said he heard a bird gobble and then saw something that "looked like a turkey" in the brush so he shot it. I told him he's lucky it wasn't another hunter that he shot. He didn't think that he did anything wrong! In the end, there is no excuse for not identifying your target. Not just the fan. The whole dang turkey!
Have you ever shot one in the mountains when he peeps his head over? I have many times and will again I hope.
Blong, With people like you in the woods, this is why people get shot. You have broken 2 cardinal rules of hunting. First you didn't verify your target. You said HE sticks his head up over a hill. You don't know if it is a he or she or someone with a fan because you are only seeing the head. Two, you can not be sure that this bird has a visible beard (and most states require only killing birds with visible beards). You hear gobbling and you get caught up in the excitement of the hunt and shoot at a head. NOPE. My 2 cents. As far as fanning, I wouldn't do it but I don't think it should be regulated. We hunters need to verify our targets, make sure we follow the rules already in place and practice all the safety rules that apply to hunting. NO hunter should be shot at the expense of, "I thought it was a Turkey." Get him out in the WIDE open and make sure or let him WALK!
What happens when it's a guy behind a DSD strutter that pops over that hill. The fan, head and beard are all visible, but the hunter on the other side hasn't seen the feet. Do you make sure you see the feet moving in conjunction with body every gobbler you've ever killed?
By law and ethics. The guy that pulls the trigger is still at fault. Should have known 100% what he was shooting at. But come on, you can't tell me the guy behind the DSD doesn't deserve some blame too.
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I disagree with fanning on several levels and safety is one of them. I rank it right up there with putting antlers on your head in deer season. That being said the man behind the trigger still bears ultimate responsibility in my mind. It's tragic and just goes to show the reckless abondon that some show in order to be successful. It some ways I also think fanning is also showing a desperate attempt at success. That's just my opinion.
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Quote from: bbcoach on February 23, 2017, 10:00:36 AM
Quote from: Blong on February 22, 2017, 09:25:59 PM
Quote from: Farmboy27 on February 22, 2017, 08:51:08 PM
Quote from: Happy on February 22, 2017, 08:25:13 PM
No matter what actually happened it is still the fellow behind the guns fault. Gun safety goes a long way. Is crawling behind a fan a good Idea? In my opinion no. But I don't condone gobbling either. People get shot just by moving their hands while calling. I hate to hear of anyone getting shot. There is no justification for not knowing your target.
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Exactly! While I would not feel safe doing it, and have never tried it (PA law is hunting by calling only) it is still insanely stupid to take a shot without knowing your target. I was taught to positively identity not one but several parts of an animal before even thinking of shooting. A few years ago an acquaintance killed a hen in the spring season. He said he heard a bird gobble and then saw something that "looked like a turkey" in the brush so he shot it. I told him he's lucky it wasn't another hunter that he shot. He didn't think that he did anything wrong! In the end, there is no excuse for not identifying your target. Not just the fan. The whole dang turkey!
Have you ever shot one in the mountains when he peeps his head over? I have many times and will again I hope.
Blong, With people like you in the woods, this is why people get shot. You have broken 2 cardinal rules of hunting. First you didn't verify your target. You said HE sticks his head up over a hill. You don't know if it is a he or she or someone with a fan because you are only seeing the head. Two, you can not be sure that this bird has a visible beard (and most states require only killing birds with visible beards). You hear gobbling and you get caught up in the excitement of the hunt and shoot at a head. NOPE. My 2 cents. As far as fanning, I wouldn't do it but I don't think it should be regulated. We hunters need to verify our targets, make sure we follow the rules already in place and practice all the safety rules that apply to hunting. NO hunter should be shot at the expense of, "I thought it was a Turkey." Get him out in the WIDE open and make sure or let him WALK!
First off I said head not fan, 2nd most states allow jakes, 3rd I guarantee that I can distinguish a male head from a hens head in the spring. Here where I hunt in ms it is not hilly enough for the just head scenario and jakes aren't legal but I guarantee that if a no beard with full fan breaks the 40 yd mark, he is getting fired on. I don't appreciate being called the reason people are shot either. I like to think that I am one of the safer guys in the woods. My gun is not loaded until I sit down on a turkey. I have been lucky enough to grow up on turkeys and have been watching their actions for 35 years, not just spring. .i am fascinated with them to say the least. I'm not saying that I can't mistake a fake turkey for a real one with the detail being put on the Dekes these days, but I hope I could. As far as real fans being used in tall grass or hills, the fanner is asking for trouble. If one can't distinguish a gobbler head from hen head, he should probably stick to golf or fishing.
Side note: which states require visible beard? The ones I hunt read 'male or visible beard' except ms which is adult gobbler.
Quote from: Tail Feathers on February 23, 2017, 09:46:54 AM
Any hunter using reaping as a technique should be smart enough to understand the risks. Any hunter shooting a turkey ought to be smart enough to positively identify his target as a real bird.
Stupid can hurt.
Summarized nicely.... ...And being real stupid can end up getting you killed! Hunt smart,...on both ends of the gun,...and with whatever techniques you choose to use.
I think some are missing the big point. Here we are , a bunch of hopefully educated and experienced turkey hunters , and we can't agree on what is safe or not with all sorts of scenario's that should make all of us pause and think about what we would do. I mean really in the heat of the moment with the adrenaline pumping do . Yes it is the person who pulls the trigger ultimate responsibility to KNOW what he is shooting at , however , the brain , as mentioned above , can play powerful tricks on us in the heat of the moment. If you think you are immune , I pray that you don't someday have a rude awakening. It's called closure and the brain confirms what you think you are looking at. I have had contact with numerous wardens over the years who have worked accident scenes and most will tell you that the shooter KNEW what he was shooting at , only it wasn't. My turkey hunting "mentor" had it happen to him once only he didn't shoot because the "turkey" he had heard gobbling and coming in and he was now seeing was too far. Turned out to be a friend of his he didn't know was hunting checking his watch because he had limited time but my buddy "knew" it was the turkeys head he was seeing coming in. Scared the be-jesus out of him after his friend eased up from the tree. The whole point of this matter is it can and does happen and why would we ever allow something that INCREASES the risk of an accidental shooting ? I know some will shout don't try and tell me how I can and can't hunt but for the love of the sport and the safety of all involved , please use some common sense. It's a big ole mean world out there and sometimes you have to put your big boy pants on and sacrifice for the betterment of all involved. I will get off of my soapbox now , feel free to start my crucifixion :popcorn:
PA requires a visible beard. The fullest fan and wattlest head in the world are mean nothing here if there ain't a visible beard. I really can't believe that anyone is defending the potential shooter in a fanning accident. Not long ago I was nearly crucified by some people for saying that I have body shot turkeys at close range. Now it's ok to shoot for the fan?
Quote from: Farmboy27 on February 23, 2017, 05:12:35 PM
PA requires a visible beard. The fullest fan and wattlest head in the world are mean nothing here if there ain't a visible beard. I really can't believe that anyone is defending the potential shooter in a fanning accident. Not long ago I was nearly crucified by some people for saying that I have body shot turkeys at close range. Now it's ok to shoot for the fan?
Did you even read the thread. First off, we're talking about VA not PA. Second many examples have been given where a beard, head, and fan can all be seen and the hunter behind the bird not. Fanning/reaping is what the discussion is about. If anyone just shoots a fan they never deserves a gun in the first place. But have you ever seen a DSD strutter?
I bet I could fool you no problem with a DSD stutter if the grass was around 12" tall or with a slight hill, or some thicker underbrush of the later spring.
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I was under the impression that the regulations in North Carolina are where bearded birds (gobbler or hen) are the only ones legal to take. But looking on page 57 of the N.C. regulations digest http://www.ncwildlife.org/Hunting/Seasons-Limits#5555120-big-game (http://www.ncwildlife.org/Hunting/Seasons-Limits#5555120-big-game) it states;
Statewide Spring Season (male or bearded turkey only) April 8 - May 6, 2017
That kind of makes it sound like gobblers without beards are now legal. I'll call the Wildlife Department tomorrow and get some clarification. They usually post more definite regulations.
I won't be doing any reaping because I already know how many trespassers I've caught hunting posted land that they weren't supposed to be on. I also find it hard to imagine how any decoy can move exactly like a gobbler. Maybe I just let them get in too close, but it seems like you'd have to disengage your brain to mistakenly misidentify your target inside of normal hunting ranges.
Jim
Quote from: beakbuster10 on February 23, 2017, 05:36:46 PM
Quote from: Farmboy27 on February 23, 2017, 05:12:35 PM
PA requires a visible beard. The fullest fan and wattlest head in the world are mean nothing here if there ain't a visible beard. I really can't believe that anyone is defending the potential shooter in a fanning accident. Not long ago I was nearly crucified by some people for saying that I have body shot turkeys at close range. Now it's ok to shoot for the fan?
Did you even read the thread. First off, we're talking about VA not PA. Second many examples have been given where a beard, head, and fan can all be seen and the hunter behind the bird not. Fanning/reaping is what the discussion is about. If anyone just shoots a fan they never deserves a gun in the first place. But have you ever seen a DSD strutter?
I bet I could fool you no problem with a DSD stutter if the grass was around 12" tall or with a slight hill, or some thicker underbrush of the later spring.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes I read the post. I also read the post asking where a visible beard was required, hence my response. And this thread is about fanning, not dsd decoys. Did you read all the posts?
Quote from: WAGinVA on February 21, 2017, 09:29:41 AM
Just FYI, I was looking at the VDGIF Board Agenda for tomorrow and the Board will act on a staff recommendation banning fanning/reaping. The rationale section indicates that there has been one fatality in VA that resulted from fanning, apparently two guys were hunting on private land and one shot the other. I had not heard anything about it before this.
Quote from: Farmboy27 on February 23, 2017, 06:29:51 PM
Quote from: beakbuster10 on February 23, 2017, 05:36:46 PM
Quote from: Farmboy27 on February 23, 2017, 05:12:35 PM
PA requires a visible beard. The fullest fan and wattlest head in the world are mean nothing here if there ain't a visible beard. I really can't believe that anyone is defending the potential shooter in a fanning accident. Not long ago I was nearly crucified by some people for saying that I have body shot turkeys at close range. Now it's ok to shoot for the fan?
Did you even read the thread. First off, we're talking about VA not PA. Second many examples have been given where a beard, head, and fan can all be seen and the hunter behind the bird not. Fanning/reaping is what the discussion is about. If anyone just shoots a fan they never deserves a gun in the first place. But have you ever seen a DSD strutter?
I bet I could fool you no problem with a DSD stutter if the grass was around 12" tall or with a slight hill, or some thicker underbrush of the later spring.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes I read the post. I also read the post asking where a visible beard was required, hence my response. And this thread is about fanning, not dsd decoys. Did you read all the posts?
Original post. See the second sentence, last word "reaping." Reaping is crawling behind a decoy to kill a turkey. DSD makes the best commercially available decoys. You said there was no way to be fooled. Given the right conditions, anyone on this forum could be fooled by a quality strutter decoy.
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Quote from: beakbuster10 on February 23, 2017, 07:43:27 PM
Quote from: WAGinVA on February 21, 2017, 09:29:41 AM
Just FYI, I was looking at the VDGIF Board Agenda for tomorrow and the Board will act on a staff recommendation banning fanning/reaping. The rationale section indicates that there has been one fatality in VA that resulted from fanning, apparently two guys were hunting on private land and one shot the other. I had not heard anything about it before this.
Quote from: Farmboy27 on February 23, 2017, 06:29:51 PM
Quote from: beakbuster10 on February 23, 2017, 05:36:46 PM
Quote from: Farmboy27 on February 23, 2017, 05:12:35 PM
PA requires a visible beard. The fullest fan and wattlest head in the world are mean nothing here if there ain't a visible beard. I really can't believe that anyone is defending the potential shooter in a fanning accident. Not long ago I was nearly crucified by some people for saying that I have body shot turkeys at close range. Now it's ok to shoot for the fan?
Did you even read the thread. First off, we're talking about VA not PA. Second many examples have been given where a beard, head, and fan can all be seen and the hunter behind the bird not. Fanning/reaping is what the discussion is about. If anyone just shoots a fan they never deserves a gun in the first place. But have you ever seen a DSD strutter?
I bet I could fool you no problem with a DSD stutter if the grass was around 12" tall or with a slight hill, or some thicker underbrush of the later spring.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes I read the post. I also read the post asking where a visible beard was required, hence my response. And this thread is about fanning, not dsd decoys. Did you read all the posts?
Original post. See the second sentence, last word "reaping." Reaping is crawling behind a decoy to kill a turkey. DSD makes the best commercially available decoys. You said there was no way to be fooled. Given the right conditions, anyone on this forum could be fooled by a quality strutter decoy.
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If you can be fooled by a decoy then please don't come to PA. If that's the case then given the right conditions any hunting "accident" is ok. Turkeys move in a way no hunter can mimic. I'm not saying that I feel fanning or reaping is safe. I'm saying that there is no excuse whatsoever for not identifying your target. I have very limited time to hunt. Does that mean I pull the trigger on a fan? Nope. Does that mean I don't take the few seconds needed to confirm that it truely is a real turkey? Nope. Hunter excitement causes a lot of hunting accidents. If you can truely be fooled into shooting an object that isn't a real turkey, then you have to take a long hard look into how you can better prepare yourself for the excitement that can come with this deal.
Quote from: Farmboy27 on February 23, 2017, 08:24:32 PM
Quote from: beakbuster10 on February 23, 2017, 07:43:27 PM
Quote from: WAGinVA on February 21, 2017, 09:29:41 AM
Just FYI, I was looking at the VDGIF Board Agenda for tomorrow and the Board will act on a staff recommendation banning fanning/reaping. The rationale section indicates that there has been one fatality in VA that resulted from fanning, apparently two guys were hunting on private land and one shot the other. I had not heard anything about it before this.
Quote from: Farmboy27 on February 23, 2017, 06:29:51 PM
Quote from: beakbuster10 on February 23, 2017, 05:36:46 PM
Quote from: Farmboy27 on February 23, 2017, 05:12:35 PM
PA requires a visible beard. The fullest fan and wattlest head in the world are mean nothing here if there ain't a visible beard. I really can't believe that anyone is defending the potential shooter in a fanning accident. Not long ago I was nearly crucified by some people for saying that I have body shot turkeys at close range. Now it's ok to shoot for the fan?
Did you even read the thread. First off, we're talking about VA not PA. Second many examples have been given where a beard, head, and fan can all be seen and the hunter behind the bird not. Fanning/reaping is what the discussion is about. If anyone just shoots a fan they never deserves a gun in the first place. But have you ever seen a DSD strutter?
I bet I could fool you no problem with a DSD stutter if the grass was around 12" tall or with a slight hill, or some thicker underbrush of the later spring.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes I read the post. I also read the post asking where a visible beard was required, hence my response. And this thread is about fanning, not dsd decoys. Did you read all the posts?
Original post. See the second sentence, last word "reaping." Reaping is crawling behind a decoy to kill a turkey. DSD makes the best commercially available decoys. You said there was no way to be fooled. Given the right conditions, anyone on this forum could be fooled by a quality strutter decoy.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If you can be fooled by a decoy then please don't come to PA. If that's the case then given the right conditions any hunting "accident" is ok. Turkeys move in a way no hunter can mimic. I'm not saying that I feel fanning or reaping is safe. I'm saying that there is no excuse whatsoever for not identifying your target. I have very limited time to hunt. Does that mean I pull the trigger on a fan? Nope. Does that mean I don't take the few seconds needed to confirm that it truely is a real turkey? Nope. Hunter excitement causes a lot of hunting accidents. If you can truely be fooled into shooting an object that isn't a real turkey, then you have to take a long hard look into how you can better prepare yourself for the excitement that can come with this deal.
I can't be fooled by what decoys were intended to do, be staked in one spot and look like decoy. I can, along with everyone else, be fooled by a decoy that's slipping around quietly through the woods or tall grass of hilly terrain. I may only be fooled for a split second or fooled for minutes. Eventually, whether it's milliseconds or minutes everyone will finally realize it's a decoy and a person. The question becomes is in the time it took to realize it wasn't actually a legal bird, did the hunter gather enough info, in their mind, that it was a legal bird to shoot?
I've never taken a shot at a bird I didn't 100% know was a legal bird that I believe I could ethically kill just like the overwhelming majority of hunters. But it only takes one lapse of judgement or even misinformation to ruin an otherwise perfect career of making the right decision. Why should it be legal to make that lapse of judgment or misinformation more likely?
Think you can can't be fooled? That's exactly why it happens. Just like not wearing and properly using a harness while treestand hunting. Accidents happen because people don't take every precaution to ensure safety. You know sort of like crawling around behind a realistic copy of what everyone is out to kill. The liability will always fall on the shooter, but why make it easier for someone to have a lapse of judgement leading to horrible accident that ruins multiple lives?
If wearing a seatbelt is a law not crawling around behind what people are trying to kill aught to be a law too.
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It's on trumps agenda to legalize fanning so all will be good
I'm sure the ones involved in the accidents also thought it couldn't happen to them. For instance, gobbler sounding off in small inverted bowl shaped field. Hunter A starts closing from the north while B from the south. A spots the strutting gobbler then crouches back down to close 40 or 50 more yards, B is doin the same but has bumped the gobbler which has left the field unnoticed while hunters are staying low and easing ever so slowly to field. B arrives first and can't find the gobbler so he belly crawls with his Dsd strutter and real fan attached almost to crest. Hunter A is now on his knees glassing but can't see over the hump. He decides to belly crawl thru the knee high grass and peak over the hill, eases up and sees the tips of a real fan so goes down immediately to close a few more yards to make sure his triple full choke hevi shot will make a clean kill. It can happen and will with today's practices.
I hunt in Virginia and have found it very safe overall. Fanning is fun to watch on YouTube but never dreamed of using it in VA. As someone stated might as well put antlers on your head during deer season - plain dumb. However there is another factor to consider. My neighbors use rifles to kill their Spring Gobbler. Which is legal in VA, I wish it were not.
At two hundred yards it is easier to mistake a turkey decoy for a real turkey considering the lifelike detail and possible movement from wind or pull string. In fact last season I killed a nice Turkey and when spreading and salting the tail was surprised to see a bullet hole in the fan. It appeared to be a 30 cal. That will kill you for sure.
Quote from: Farmboy27 on February 23, 2017, 08:24:32 PM
Quote from: beakbuster10 on February 23, 2017, 07:43:27 PM
Quote from: WAGinVA on February 21, 2017, 09:29:41 AM
Just FYI, I was looking at the VDGIF Board Agenda for tomorrow and the Board will act on a staff recommendation banning fanning/reaping. The rationale section indicates that there has been one fatality in VA that resulted from fanning, apparently two guys were hunting on private land and one shot the other. I had not heard anything about it before this.
Quote from: Farmboy27 on February 23, 2017, 06:29:51 PM
Quote from: beakbuster10 on February 23, 2017, 05:36:46 PM
Quote from: Farmboy27 on February 23, 2017, 05:12:35 PM
PA requires a visible beard. The fullest fan and wattlest head in the world are mean nothing here if there ain't a visible beard. I really can't believe that anyone is defending the potential shooter in a fanning accident. Not long ago I was nearly crucified by some people for saying that I have body shot turkeys at close range. Now it's ok to shoot for the fan?
Did you even read the thread. First off, we're talking about VA not PA. Second many examples have been given where a beard, head, and fan can all be seen and the hunter behind the bird not. Fanning/reaping is what the discussion is about. If anyone just shoots a fan they never deserves a gun in the first place. But have you ever seen a DSD strutter?
I bet I could fool you no problem with a DSD stutter if the grass was around 12" tall or with a slight hill, or some thicker underbrush of the later spring.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes I read the post. I also read the post asking where a visible beard was required, hence my response. And this thread is about fanning, not dsd decoys. Did you read all the posts?
Original post. See the second sentence, last word "reaping." Reaping is crawling behind a decoy to kill a turkey. DSD makes the best commercially available decoys. You said there was no way to be fooled. Given the right conditions, anyone on this forum could be fooled by a quality strutter decoy.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If you can be fooled by a decoy then please don't come to PA. If that's the case then given the right conditions any hunting "accident" is ok. Turkeys move in a way no hunter can mimic. I'm not saying that I feel fanning or reaping is safe. I'm saying that there is no excuse whatsoever for not identifying your target. I have very limited time to hunt. Does that mean I pull the trigger on a fan? Nope. Does that mean I don't take the few seconds needed to confirm that it truely is a real turkey? Nope. Hunter excitement causes a lot of hunting accidents. If you can truely be fooled into shooting an object that isn't a real turkey, then you have to take a long hard look into how you can better prepare yourself for the excitement that can come with this deal.
Those are all good points, are the guys who may shoot at a fan or decoy really worried about seeing a beard ? Doubt it. The guys who shot someone thought they saw a tom turkey or they would not have pulled the trigger. New decoys and moving fans are all some need to push them into a exited state .Some have been experienced hunters involved . Many accidents have been shooting at a sound of a turkey and the shooters mind said Tom and boom! I had an incident years ago when a guy who shot a tom threw his bird over the fence and the wings flopped and turkey hit the leaves and I saw the turkey land so my heart raced and pounded for a moment then he jumped over the fence ..
I never raised my gun or nothing but that short moment I got a bit scared and ever since then I don't even carry a bird over my shoulders without a way to cover the bird and prefer a vest and make sure to tuck his head in so that someone don't see that head of bright colors moving around. I would hate to think what someone who is a quick shot would have done. I talked to the hunter about the way he carried the bird. Be careful out there and be aware that your mind works fast.You can't depend on the other guy to be sure and safe.
Quote from: beakbuster10 on February 23, 2017, 05:36:46 PM
I bet I could fool you no problem with a DSD stutter if the grass was around 12" tall or with a slight hill, or some thicker underbrush of the later spring.
That is what is known as "suicide by reaping". Anybody that would do that deserves to be shot just so we can give them a Darwin Award. Hell, if I saw someone doing that I would shoot them myself just to get them off the planet.
All joking aside, there are varying levels of stupidity out there. All of us need to be aware of that and modify our personal behavior accordingly. However, we can't go around outlawing stuff by citing extreme and hypothetical examples of moronic behavior. As others have noted,....hunt smart, hunt safe,...and let's leave it at that.
Done it. In VA. Don't want anyone else telling me how to hunt, or making it illegal. Don't believe in seat belt laws or motorcycle helmet laws either. It's my choice if I want to risk my life, not your choice, unless I'm endangering your life. Laws should not restrict an individual's freedoms unless that individual is violating someone else's freedoms. Victimless crimes shouldn't be crimes. Want to make it illegal on public ground? Fine, that's the state's domain, but don't touch my private land. It's not yours. I paid for it, and I pay taxes each year to keep it.
That said, I try to be careful, fanning or otherwise. I hunt private. I don't fan on a regular basis, and I use the fanning method only when I feel I can be safe. It is fun when it works. Having a gobbler at 2 steps wanting to kick the crap out of the decoy over your head is exhilarating. But I have had perfect opportunities that I passed on because I had a "feeling" someone else might be around, even though in retrospect I don't think anyone was, it's better safe than sorry. Never have had a problem when fanning so far, but I did have a trespasser stalk my strutter when I was set up on a field edge calling a bird one time. As he ran away I fired three rounds into the tree tops over his head and I don't believe he has been back on that farm. Please don't bother saying that bird shot into the tree tops is reckless or dangerous. If you believe that, stay in the city. :z-guntootsmiley:
My vision is good. I don't think I would ever shoot a strutter decoy, unless someone was crawling under a taxidermy mount, then I suppose it could happen. Some said earlier that that attitude of "wouldn't happen to me" is what will cause an accident, but I truly don't think a decoy could fool me into thinking it's a real bird. That being said though, I have taken guys goose hunting and landed geese, told them to stand up and flush the goose, only to watch them stand up and ground pound a bigfoot goose decoy and watch the real goose fly off. Those goose decoys aren't half as real looking as many turkey decoys on the market. So it needs to be remembered that some of the guys hunting in the woods can't see for shite, and you have to survive them while in the woods. :OGturkeyhead:
I would rather see them ban people with poor vision and poor animal species recognition from hunting than ban fanning, but unfortunately that's not how our system works. They're taking legally blind people out and letting them shoot stuff now, so it unfortunately comes down to personal responsibility, both to the fanner and the shooter. Do what you want, if you feel it is safe. And if you're wrong, well you might end up dead. Oh well. Darwin award it is! No one said you get to live forever. :angel9:
But to the half-blind guy who shoots a decoy thinking it's a bird, yeah, that's on you bud. If you can't tell the difference, stay out of the woods, or wait for the bird to drop strut and spin in a circle and strecth his wings and confirm it is not a decoy before pulling the trigger. The ultimate responsibility is on the shooter, wherever that projectile lands. If you shoot at a squirrel in a tree with a .22 and the projectile tears off through the sky and it kills a kid a mile away, that's on you. And if you shoot at a skylined deer on a hill in a field and that bullet smashes through a house or a car on the other side of the field, that's on you too. Know your target, and beyond.
There's risk in everything we do. I bet several people died in car accidents on their way to work today. That doesn't mean I want to outlaw cars. :TrainWreck1:
it should be outlawed/banned in all 50 states
The same guys who blame the person pulling the trigger in a reaping accident are the same ones who get enraged and act all shocked when another hunter shoots their B Mobile or whatever they call em these days.