Check out Clark's post in the Turkey Guns section.
Awesome!!! :icon_thumright:
Perfect timing my Dad just got this Mossberg SA-20 today!
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Looking forward to trying them out, but it will be hard to beat out my Federal HW 7's. But I will see. :icon_thumright:
Agree, i just wish they were going to have them in 7 shot...not just 5 and 6 shot...
I will shoot them.
No offense but I'm not sure I'd like them. Longbeards are infact devastating but the patern leaves little room for error at close range. I guided seven hunters last spring with 4 birds missed inside of 25 yards...all with Longbeards. Just my opinion, now carry-on.
Quote from: Gooserbat on December 17, 2016, 12:53:38 AM
No offense but I'm not sure I'd like them. Longbeards are infact devastating but the patern leaves little room for error at close range. I guided seven hunters last spring with 4 birds missed inside of 25 yards...all with Longbeards. Just my opinion, now carry-on.
The problem isn't the load. The problem is inexperienced hunters who fail to realize you don't have to shoot a turkey in the brain at 15 yards.
If they would bring their point of aim down to the feather line below the wattles the problem would be eliminated and they'd still have a devastating load at 45 yards.
You can't have an open 15 yard pattern and expect to have a pattern dense enough to kill at 45.
As a guide, you have the ability to tell the shooter where to shoot the bird. Tell them to bring their point of aim down and shoot for feathers the next time you encounter that situation.
Totally agree with Gooserbat. I wouldn't use them if they were given to me. I'll stick with the Fed HW7s.
Quote from: dejake on December 17, 2016, 08:30:04 AM
Totally agree with Gooserbat. I wouldn't use them if they were given to me. I'll stick with the Fed HW7s.
X2....I get far superior "hunting" patterns with the HW 7's for my hunting style. It won't even be close.
I also foresee a lot of children/kids whiffing on birds over dekes (not discussing dekes) at 15 yds, when they'd be far better served by a 20 ga. load of high-brass 7.5's out of a lt. mod. choke at 15 yds....my kids don't shoot what I shoot, I do provide them with wiggle room when hunting/guiding "kids" in that style
:OGturkeyhead: :OGturkeyhead: :OGturkeyhead:
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on December 17, 2016, 07:45:59 AM
Quote from: Gooserbat on December 17, 2016, 12:53:38 AM
No offense but I'm not sure I'd like them. Longbeards are infact devastating but the patern leaves little room for error at close range. I guided seven hunters last spring with 4 birds missed inside of 25 yards...all with Longbeards. Just my opinion, now carry-on.
The problem isn't the load. The problem is inexperienced hunters who fail to realize you don't have to shoot a turkey in the brain at 15 yards.
If they would bring their point of aim down to the feather line below the wattles the problem would be eliminated and they'd still have a devastating load at 45 yards.
You can't have an open 15 yard pattern and expect to have a pattern dense enough to kill at 45.
As a guide, you have the ability to tell the shooter where to shoot the bird. Tell them to bring their point of aim down and shoot for feathers the next time you encounter that situation.
You read a lot of advertising I think. I have enough real world experience in killing turkeys to know better. All the said birds were missed by hunters who know what they are doing. And yes I've laid 7 or 8 to rest with longbeards. like i said devastating at long range... And as far as patern I can use my 20 ga with HW #7 and kill to 40 and farther than is OG friendly and still have a basketball size pattern at 20 yards. TSS is even more effective.
I would say that most people hunting with a guide don't really know what they're doing. If they did know what they're doing they'd be running public ground or have secured much cheaper access.
If a guy doesn't realize that being closer to the body on close quarter birds with ultratight patterns is more practical then shame on him.
I guess a guy who spends 30 plus mornings a spring and chases them all over the country each year couldn't possibly have an opinion formed based on field/guiding experience instead of some worthless turkey hunting magazine.
To each his own but I tell my people to bring it down and I also do so myself when they are in tight.
The blame for the turkeys that I've missed lays squarely on my shoulders not my gun or load within it.
I AGREE WITH SPRING CREEK CALLS
IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR GUN CAN DO WITH THE SHOT U USE
HOW CAN U GO WRONG ...... EXCEPT........
Because when you get excited you don't always shoot straight, and if the game doesn't excite me I wouldn't play.
Quote from: Gooserbat on December 17, 2016, 04:07:39 PM
Because when you get excited you don't always shoot straight, and if the game doesn't excite me I wouldn't play.
Exactly. No gun, choke tube or turkey load is the perfect medicine for all situations. Pick your poison and go have fun!
Quote from: Spring Creek Calls on December 17, 2016, 04:48:38 PM
Quote from: Gooserbat on December 17, 2016, 04:07:39 PM
Because when you get excited you don't always shoot straight, and if the game doesn't excite me I wouldn't play.
Exactly. No gun, choke tube or turkey load is the perfect medicine for all situations. Pick your poison and go have fun!
This is a perfect post. Nothing is perfect for everything. I myself have previously posted I thought long beards were too tight to be user friendly but I messed w em more n found a gun/choke combo that is pretty good. Would I give it to a kid? Of course not and I didn't sell any of my other turkey guns so now one gun is set for long beards others for dif loads so I can pick n choose what best suits me that day, yet still throughout that particular day anything can happen n perhaps another gun/load coulda been a better choice.
No sense trashing another's way of thinking. Use what works but the only thing I will say is the "experienced" hunters that shot at Gooserbat's birds missed. Not the shell n you can only blame a slightly smaller margin of error on that shell.
I'm betting even w other shells at least a couple of those whiffs would still be whiffs
Quote from: Gooserbat on December 17, 2016, 12:53:38 AM
No offense but I'm not sure I'd like them. Longbeards are infact devastating but the patern leaves little room for error at close range. I guided seven hunters last spring with 4 birds missed inside of 25 yards...all with Longbeards. Just my opinion, now carry-on.
know that feeling my brother has missed 2 with em at close range and I told him to bring it down after the first miss. have no desire to shoot em but that is just my 2 cents
I tried them out of a 12. Pretty impressive on paper from 15-45. But I realized after looking at the first 20 yard pattern they weren't a shell I would turkey hunt with. Most of my shot opportunities are in the 10-25 yard range. I can definately see the attraction for some hunters with all those holes in the paper in that mystical 10" circle. I have done this long enough to realize there is something else besides 200 pellets that you need to keep inside that circle, a turkeys head and neck. And that can be a difficult task at times in real world hunting situation versus from a vice and shooting table. Not enough room for error for me. I'll take an evenly filled 20-25" circle over an overloaded 10 in a hunting situation any day.
I tend to agree with Gooserbat. Devastating shell. Just not for me. In a 12 anyway. Be interesting to see the patterns in a 20.
Quote from: Spring Creek Calls on December 17, 2016, 01:15:20 PM
The blame for the turkeys that I've missed lays squarely on my shoulders not my gun or load within it.
exactly
So I used what is between my shoulders and after shooting the 12 gauge longbeard loads decided not to use them in my gun/choke combo's . After seeing the close patterns sure wouldn't blame a guy for not using them.
Guess I ain't that good and just get a bit worked up when a big tom is in close !
Sure will try some of the 20 gauge though as new stuff is always fun to work with.
How they do is anyone 's guess at this point.
Guy's it looks like from a lot of the post we already know how these new 20 gauge shells are going to shoot...Lets wait and see how these new shells will shoot after they hit the shelves ....only a test from our 20 gauges will tell us how we each like these shells...Let's first thank Winchester for thinking of us 20 gauge turkey hunters for a new shell, at least they are thinking of us as hunters...
Quote from: Greg Massey on December 18, 2016, 11:52:51 AM
Guy's it looks like from a lot of the post we already know how these new 20 gauge shells are going to shoot...Lets wait and see how these new shells will shoot after they hit the shelves ....only a test from our 20 gauges will tell us how we each like these shells...Let's first thank Winchester for thinking of use 20 gauge turkey hunters for a new shell, at least they are thinking of us as hunters...
Killjoy!
It's cold outside and a little pot stiring really helps cabin fever
Quote from: Gooserbat on December 18, 2016, 12:25:52 PM
Quote from: Greg Massey on December 18, 2016, 11:52:51 AM
Guy's it looks like from a lot of the post we already know how these new 20 gauge shells are going to shoot...Lets wait and see how these new shells will shoot after they hit the shelves ....only a test from our 20 gauges will tell us how we each like these shells...Let's first thank Winchester for thinking of use 20 gauge turkey hunters for a new shell, at least they are thinking of us as hunters...
Killjoy!
It's cold outside and a little pot stiring really helps cabin fever
Hey Gooserbat--go over to the "marlin owners forum" and tell the .35 Rem guys the .30-30 shoots tighter groups and ammo is easier to find
that will make your pot runneth over :TooFunny:
I will give the 20 gauge long beards a try, but the Federal HVWT's are doing a good job for what I want
Quote from: outdoors on December 17, 2016, 01:32:39 PM
I AGREE WITH SPRING CREEK CALLS
IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR GUN CAN DO WITH THE SHOT U USE
HOW CAN U GO WRONG ...... EXCEPT........
.........EXCEPT........I love the word, LOL
Quote from: crow on December 18, 2016, 03:22:26 PM
Quote from: Gooserbat on December 18, 2016, 12:25:52 PM
Quote from: Greg Massey on December 18, 2016, 11:52:51 AM
Guy's it looks like from a lot of the post we already know how these new 20 gauge shells are going to shoot...Lets wait and see how these new shells will shoot after they hit the shelves ....only a test from our 20 gauges will tell us how we each like these shells...Let's first thank Winchester for thinking of use 20 gauge turkey hunters for a new shell, at least they are thinking of us as hunters...
Killjoy!
It's cold outside and a little pot stiring really helps cabin fever
Hey Gooserbat--go over to the "marlin owners forum" and tell the .35 Rem guys the .30-30 shoots tighter groups and ammo is easier to find
that will make your pot runneth over :TooFunny:
I will give the 20 gauge long beards a try, but the Federal HVWT's are doing a good job for what I want
Id rather go to archerytalk snd post a "90 yard" group with my crossbow
Quote from: Gooserbat on December 19, 2016, 07:20:42 PM
Quote from: crow on December 18, 2016, 03:22:26 PM
Quote from: Gooserbat on December 18, 2016, 12:25:52 PM
Quote from: Greg Massey on December 18, 2016, 11:52:51 AM
Guy's it looks like from a lot of the post we already know how these new 20 gauge shells are going to shoot...Lets wait and see how these new shells will shoot after they hit the shelves ....only a test from our 20 gauges will tell us how we each like these shells...Let's first thank Winchester for thinking of use 20 gauge turkey hunters for a new shell, at least they are thinking of us as hunters...
Killjoy!
It's cold outside and a little pot stiring really helps cabin fever
Hey Gooserbat--go over to the "marlin owners forum" and tell the .35 Rem guys the .30-30 shoots tighter groups and ammo is easier to find
that will make your pot runneth over :TooFunny:
I will give the 20 gauge long beards a try, but the Federal HVWT's are doing a good job for what I want
Id rather go to archerytalk snd post a "90 yard" group with my crossbow
Ah go for it! Show them the full 100 !
And by the way the .243 Winchester is way to small for deer!
I will absolutely try them, but the same as when I got them for the 12 I still prefer the hevi or HW for pattern density, energy, and turning good 20 and 40yd patterns. I think the nature of the shell with the longbeards just needs understood and respected. On a 20ga load the resin is gonna keep that 1.25oz of shot together better than any previous 20 load at 40yds on paper but that same technology is gonna keep the short range shots like soft balls. We all know the average Joe is gonna choke these shells down to shoot beyond 40 leaving the short range margin for error tight. What's that load gonna have with #5's 210-220 pellets if guys push to see 150 plus in 10 at 40 not leaving much for the fringe and what's that gonna look like at 15yds
It's fine if you understand this most of us do and will set up guns accordingly I think it's the average guy not on the forum getting his info from magazine adds that will advertise this as a long range 20 load. Those poeple won't vet the what happens at 10,15,20 yds and how should I adjust aiming for such a tight pattern.
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Quote from: Spring Creek Calls on December 17, 2016, 04:48:38 PM
Quote from: Gooserbat on December 17, 2016, 04:07:39 PM
Because when you get excited you don't always shoot straight, and if the game doesn't excite me I wouldn't play.
Exactly. No gun, choke tube or turkey load is the perfect medicine for all situations. Pick your poison and go have fun!
as I said in a previous post , the perfect gun would be an o/u with 2 extremely different chokes...down here in Florida,sitting in Palmettos, I've probably have had just as many 10yrd. shots as further ones..
With the Longboards winning and setting world records every year since they have been shot in the nwtf shoot, it only made sense to bring out a 20 ga load. There is only one shell in the 20 ga class and thats the hevi 13 #6. Winchester needed a 20 ga load to compete with hevi.
Also, many of us have asked many times over "when will you make a 20 ga shell?" Now they have and have killed 2 birds with one stone.
Now if they would just get into the htl game again....
Great news for those with their roaring '20s. I am standing by for the patterning results to satisfy my curiosity. Perhaps some day I will get a 20-g for the arsenal. Good luck and pls share the results.