Bagged a Rio in Mason county this weekend. Initially thought it was a Jake looking at the bird through my binoculars, but was surprised when he displayed a full tail fan when he came strutting up to my decoy. I wasn't going to take him until he put on that display. Super jake? Developmentally challenged two year old?
His fan, hastily pinned down with none of the meat trimming/prep work started yet (you can see borax on the board from the last fan I dried).
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160426/649df0eace06481db9189248206ac4a2.jpg)
His jake spurs.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160426/ea9de6d22b501db08329b376441b5847.jpg)
Beard right around 7 inches and thin.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160426/9cfa8a6a042e78fff0484f5ca727d37f.jpg)
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That's a hard one to call without some reservation, but I would say that is an early-molt, one-year-old bird. I can't imagine that is a two-year-old with spurs like that,...but, hey, genetics can sometimes have weird results
For me this is hard to say. Could be either or but I would go with a young gobbler that may just have poor genes in regards to his spur length (I have killed a couple gobblers with 7in or bigger beards that have small or no spurs). It also appears that his beard is longer than 7in from the pic (I would say that the beard is around 8in to 8 1/4in)
Tom for sure! I've seen lol beards with no spurs at all. Full fan, long beard, that's a Tom
Have seen a full fan jake and actually shot one but their beards were in the 5-6 " range. Have taken a jake that only had 1 short tail feather so I called them a DOMINANT or SUPER jake LOL! I would say jake but no bygologist here.
I'd say tom. He's old enough. ;)
That's a tom. I killed one once with a full fan and 10in beard with no spurs
Good to see that you changed you're handle on tbh AxisWhisperer. That's a super jake
No such thing as a super Jake, probably a later born tom
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That would be a shooter for me, and I would designate it as a tom....
I rarely get to see the spurs before I shoot (as the grass is very tall), but a full beard and a full fan, I'd flop that bird if he came in...
Seems to me that there are more situations that would inhibit spur growth than would increase tail fan and beard growth to such a degree...
I know in KY they consider a bird to be mature/tom if it has a 6" beard no matter the spur size. I say it was a tom. Congrats
tom with bad genes
Quote from: laker on April 26, 2016, 01:02:07 PM
I know in KY they consider a bird to be mature/tom if it has a 6" beard no matter the spur size. I say it was a tom. Congrats
Interesting discussion. Some biologist somewhere told me that the tail fan is the best indicator of age... Uneven fan is a jake, and even fan is probably 2 years or older... There are all kinds of situations that can cause spurs or the beard to break off... Very unusual to have that tail fan even after only one year (from what he told me).
I killed a bird with an 8 inch beard, and was disappointed to realize his tail fan was uneven... I would call him a jake.
Killed a bird a couple years ago with a full tail fan and a 6" beard... I would call him a tom...
I think the fan is the most accurate and most consistent way to for sure tell if it is a jake or tom. I would say this is a tom. That one would definitely have me second guessing as well though.
YES...
My buddy shot one that looked exactly like this bird a couple of weeks ago in SC Kansas...same type beard, same type nubs, full fan.
I would sy a 2 year old with the full fan. He just didn't have good spur genetics and might never have had much longer spurs. One thing is certain, they ain't gonna get any longer.
Definitely a tom. The beard length and full fan are what determine between a jake and tom not the spurs. In VA anything with a beard over 6 inches is a gobbler.
Full fan and long beard always qualifies as "shooter" for me. I've never passed up that combo and I've killed at least one bird exactly as you have pictured. I've also killed an uneven fanned bird that weighed 17lbs and had a 7" beard. Both are very uncommon in my area, jakes most always 12-15lbs with 2-5" beards or around that.
To give you a different perspective, I killed a great 21lb tom with good spurs a few years back that came strutting in through a shin high muscadine vine covered patch of woods. Said tom had a stubby 2" beard from beard rot. It's more about the hunt for me these days, big or small. Spur length almost always shows up after the deal goes down where I hunt.
What did the coverts on the wings look like?
A Tom.
In Ms that would be classified a tom since it has a full fan I do believe.
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Quote from: THattaway on April 26, 2016, 03:57:47 PM
Full fan and long beard always qualifies as "shooter" for me. I've never passed up that combo and I've killed at least one bird exactly as you have pictured. I've also killed an uneven fanned bird that weighed 17lbs and had a 7" beard. Both are very uncommon in my area, jakes most always 12-15lbs with 2-5" beards or around that.
To give you a different perspective, I killed a great 21lb tom with good spurs a few years back that came strutting in through a shin high muscadine vine covered patch of woods. Said tom had a stubby 2" beard from beard rot. It's more about the hunt for me these days, big or small. Spur length almost always shows up after the deal goes down where I hunt.
What did the coverts on the wings look like?
They looked like a tom as best as I could tell. I did some research on other ways to distinguish a jake from a tom and found out the difference in their coverts. I should have taken a picture of thw wing before disposing of the carcass. I'm leaning on an early hatch jake that may have gotten all his adult feathers in, but who knows? And I guess it's all speculative anyway.
I killed one similar years ago and was told by an older fella it was a late hatch 2 year old. Hens nest was busted up and she re nested. Just a little younger than everyone else. Lol Chuck
Tom
I'm going to say Tom. I've seen them with no spurs before.
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He's a 2 yr old. While this is a rio, I've killed several adult Merriam's with no spurs. He may have been late born but it's likely genetics.
Tom...full fan...spurs technically mean nothing, but a molted fan does...
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Mature gobbler with short spurs. Genetic anomaly but can occur.
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Ive seen a few "runt" toms before that appear to be from a very late hatch nest causing them to be a little younger and stunted growth compared to other 2yr old class birds. full fans with weak beards and large nubs but no appreciable size to the spurs.
I agree with some of the others that this is a tom. Just my opinion, but spurs are not a very clear indicator of a bird's age. I've killed birds with short spurs, one spur, and no spurs. On this site, there have even been 3 and four spurred birds posted. Lots of variables it seems when it comes to spurs. I would put beard length as a close-second (to not indicating age). We all know what a jake pencil beard looks like, but I have seen just as many rotted 6-7 inch beards as I have paintbrushes. Seems that a lot of factors also play a role in a turkey's beard length.
The one indicator that doesn't seem to fail aging them is the tailfan. If it is a full fan, it is a tom - despite beard and/or spur length.
Tom. Has a longbeard and full fan. Spurs can be genetically small.
Congratulations! Definitely a Tom.
Tom
Quote from: longbeard11 on April 26, 2016, 10:46:01 AM
Tom for sure! I've seen lol beards with no spurs at all. Full fan, long beard, that's a Tom
Quote from: GED6531 on April 26, 2016, 03:09:38 PM
I think the fan is the most accurate and most consistent way to for sure tell if it is a jake or tom. I would say this is a tom.
I agree. I've shot mature gobblers birds with no spurs. If a gobbler comes in and is not strutting I check his beard length to determine if I'm going to shoot. A full fan is the best way IMO to determine whether he's a mature bird.
Ive killed a bird just like that. Full fan, long beard and nubs for spurs. He also had tiny legs and feet all together. but he came in gobbling and strutting like a boss!
I killed a 10" longbeard a few years back that was getting harassed by a trio of jakes.
He only weighed 15lb and had zero spurs. Not even a break in the scales on the back of his legs.
His head and neck seemed undersized too. Strange bird, but another 10" rope for the beard box!
Check the distance from tip to tip on the lower feathers of the fan. A 2 year old will be around 28" and older birds will get increasingly longer. This indicator has been pretty conclusive with other indicators of age for me.
My biggest fan was nearly 33" across. He was 23lb, thick black 10" beard, and 1 5/16" spurs.
I've killed "jakebeards" or super jakes/young toms in October, but their spurs are already pushing 3/4" and beards about 8". My guess is it was an especially early born jake that molted early and grew a full fan. But I am no expert
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Well, after reading this thread, I'm convinced that the "big" jake I killed this morning is in fact a tom! Thanks for the uplift in my spirits guys!! BTW: Full fan, 6" beard, 1/2" spurs.
tom
a hunting partner of mine killed a bird 1 week ago that had a full fan, 6-3/4" beard and no spurs of any kind
I say Tom. Could be genetics or diet that caused nub spurs.
Definitely a mature Gobbler and not a Jake . I've killed a few with a good hanging beard and no spurs .You got cheated on the spurs.
Another vote for Tom. He has molted. Probably hatched late in the spring, but been through a molt. His age is counted like a race horse, number of years he has been alive on Jan 1. Actually the fan convinces me.
It is my understanding that all adult turkeys, hens and gobblers, go through one complete molt every summer. Any feathers lost throughout the year are replaced, but that's different than a molt. Young turkeys go through several molts in their first year. Jakes have longer central tail feathers because they are going through their final molt to become an adult. By summer's end all tail feathers have molted and, voila, adult bird. Beard and spur length can be variable.
Your spirits should be high regardless of the age of your turkey. The quality of your hunt is unquestioned-it was safe and successful. Did your heart rate go up before the shot? In the end, that's all that matters.