What's your personal take on the coyotes on your hunting property?
S eastern Georgia here and we are loaded..more than ever...but have more deer and birds..than ever..the yokes are eating at the same feeders too..fixing to interrupt a life cycle or two..goes against my Dad's lessons as a kid..don't kill something you don't plan on eating..but hey wait Dad..don't shoot that rattler...lol
I'd prefer to see a few less around personally but the trapping gods decided to curse my season with foxes instead. Actually, if you're catching good numbers of foxes, there's probably not that many coyotes. Back home it's a different story. Our deer numbers are hurt big time from several low mast years in a row coupled with hard winters and high coyote populations. It's a shame really. Kill what you can of them. Eat them if you wish.
Saw where CA has shortened deer season ..70,000 less...??
Musta been 30 howling last night in my back "yard"
Ordered a howler from MFK..gonna try it out while scouting for toms
I shoot em when I call em in. I let foxes have a pass though. Bobcats are coming on strong but no season yet where I live. Figure it helps out the animals I like to eat!
They are taking a toll on my poult population got numerous game came pics of them with a poult in there mouth I have resorted to trapping and hunting them not to mention I'm two fawns down in the last month they definitely need to managed is my take on them
Kill as many as you can
We have lots of coyotes here in my area of central NY, I hear them almost every night when I take my beagle out. Most of my best spots for rabbits are pretty much wiped out. Very few rabbits, but lots of coyote tracks and dropping full of rabbit hair.
Deer numbers seem to be down from what they used to be too. My knees are shot, so I don't cover ground like I used to, but most of the other guys I talk to say the same thing and I generally find two or three places each summer where they killed fawns.
Turkey numbers have been on the decline here for several years and I'm sure coyotes eat every one they can, but I think there's more to our turkey problems than just coyotes.
The only thing I know for sure is that we had a lot more game animals and birds here before the coyote population went crazy. I know of two groups of guys that hunt them with dogs here locally. As of yesterday one of them had killed 18, and the last time I talked to one of the other guys they'd killed just under 30. I know there are other guys hunting them, but I don't talk to them so I don't know how many they've killed. It doesn't amount to much, but I shoot every one I can. All this, and who knows how many other people after them and it doesn't seem to put a dent in them. I do believe they're here to stay.
I should mention that we have a decent fisher population now too. Up until a few years ago they were almost unheard of here. Same with bobcats.
Bob
We are having a big problem with coons we've been trapping those for couple months now..only caught one coyote..
If you watch "Game Keepers" show, they claim coyotes are minor predators of turkeys. They do the research so they would likely know more than me...That said, why would a coyote not be able to catch a turkey? They catch everything else...I can't think of a reason why they couldn't catch a hen on a nest. A raccoon can do that...Or poults?
I know that since the coyotes showed up here, the turkey population has been in decline for sure...
My vote is to kill 'em when you can...
They're a good thing when it comes to turkeys. The coyotes kill the coons, opossum and skunks responsible for destroying hundreds of nests throughout your property and the area around it.
When it comes to whitetail deer and other small game they are nothing but a detriment to your property. Fawn mortality is anywhere from 50-75% when coyotes are established in an area.
I also enjoy shooting upland game, as well as waterfowl... For these birds, other predators such as opossums, raccoons, and skunks are for more of a concern (as they are all egg/chick eaters and will all eat adults on the nest as well), and coyotes tend to keep these populations in check...
Also, coyotes tend to prefer squirrels and rabbits over birds for the most part, and thus coyotes control the critters that are competing for the food sources of my preferred game...
I have actually read a study (sorry no link) that concluded that areas where coyotes were not controlled had better upland production...
Turkeys are a bit of a different story though... Poults or adults are a pretty good mouthful for a coyote... Last year, I do not think I hunted a single day in which I did not call in a coyote (or bobcat) to a turkey call. I believe the drought has caused reduced production on squirrels rabbits and other prey, and the yotes were on the turkeys pretty good last season...
I had several situations in which turkeys were either in range (but out of sight) or almost in range, and a coyote went after them...
Personally, I have no desire to shoot a coyote... I am hunting for fun, and they are doing it for a living. But I do have a brother-in-law that would really like to shoot a coyote... I might take him out for his trophy on my favorite turkey hunting property.
It is true the yotes do kill a lot of skunks,coons and othere things that take the nests, but the yote is bigger so he has to eat more so he is trying Day and Night. I have seen in fresh snow one morning where there wasnt a square foot for about a hundred feet there wasnt a yote track under some roost trees. Where they were harassing them to fly down so they could try catching them. Take them when ever you can
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on February 28, 2016, 09:21:14 PM
They're a good thing when it comes to turkeys. The coyotes kill the coons, opossum and skunks responsible for destroying hundreds of nests throughout your property and the area around it.
When it comes to whitetail deer and other small game they are nothing but a detriment to your property. Fawn mortality is anywhere from 50-75% when coyotes are established in an area.
That's fact, but I'm still gonna kill em when I can. I should shoot more coons too though
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Quote from: sixbird on February 28, 2016, 09:16:01 PM
If you watch "Game Keepers" show, they claim coyotes are minor predators of turkeys. They do the research so they would likely know more than me...That said, why would a coyote not be able to catch a turkey? They catch everything else...I can't think of a reason why they couldn't catch a hen on a nest. A raccoon can do that...Or poults?
I know that since the coyotes showed up here, the turkey population has been in decline for sure...
My vote is to kill 'em when you can...
I'm not disputing what they said but if someone is hunting an area and calls a coyotes to one out of every four sets, that means they've been successful enough to keep trying. Predators aren't going to keep trying something that's not working for them. If the energy expended to kill prey is greater than the intake, they'll generally back off. If they're persistent enough to keep coming in every time they hear a gobble or yelp, just seems to me they've had enough luck to justify it. Kill every one you can. Not that it's going to make a huge difference but still...
Agree coyotes are more detrimental to fawn and small game. Have been suprised that no one has mentioned the increase in hawks and eagles. At least in my area. Heck we even have bald eagles around here. Maybe it's just my area but we definitely have more birds of prey now than I can ever remember. I think they are harder on most pults than many realize.
Quote from: Happy on March 01, 2016, 04:38:32 PM
Agree coyotes are more detrimental to fawn and small game. Have been suprised that no one has mentioned the increase in hawks and eagles. At least in my area. Heck we even have bald eagles around here. Maybe it's just my area but we definitely have more birds of prey now than I can ever remember. I think they are harder on most pults than many realize.
That's a fact that I've never really thought about. There's enough of them (bald eagles) here now that we see them perched on top of road killed deer. Never took the time to really consider them.
My buddy and I went scouting last Sunday morning on a central Florida WMA. In the spot we found a bunch of turkey tracks on the dirt roads and muddy spots, there was coyote scat everywhere. Second spot saw a bobcat run off when we pulled up, Roads were criss crossed with cat tracks and not a single turkey track could be found.
Here in central PA we have some coyotes and I'm sure they take their share of turkeys. As far as the coyotes keeping the raccoon population down, not sure I buy that. The average coyote around here might go 35-40 pounds. A big old male might go 50. I have seen boar coons whip a single coon dog on several occasions. A coyote is going to go for the easiest meal they can find. Mice, voles, young rabbits, poults and fawns are a lot easier than a coon!
While coyotes and coon hounds aren't the same by any means, I'll agree with this somewhat. They'll definitely take the easy meal. Coyotes will kill some coons for sure but I can say one thing for sure. Two years ago I caught a coon in a trap. Easy pickings for any coyote coming across it you'd think. The set was completely littered with coyote tracks in the surrounding snow and inside the catch circle. The coon was still there. If he can fight off a coyote while being tied down, I'm betting they're not eating as many as some would like to believe.
We have them all over South Carolina. I've seen at least 8-10 in daylight since I moved here 18 months ago. I have yet to see any while deer hunting, but I have them all over my trail cameras. I've never seen this many until I moved here. I'll shoot all that I see though.
We killed three last weekend in front of the hounds.
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e163/beagleguy/yotes.jpg) (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/beagleguy/media/yotes.jpg.html)
Quote from: beagler on March 02, 2016, 08:32:15 PM
We killed three last weekend in front of the hounds.
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e163/beagleguy/yotes.jpg) (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/beagleguy/media/yotes.jpg.html)
Very nice. Congrats....
I don't think coyotes hurt turkey populations. If anything they may help (by preying upon other predators of turkeys).
I have walked a lot of miles in the turkey woods and can only recall two times were I came across turkey remains in coyote droppings. I've never seen a coyote catch a turkey or even attempt to catch a turkey. I've even got a trail cam pic off turkeys feeding in a field literally within feet of a coyote that is laying down and paying no attention to the turkeys. They may stumble upon a hen with poults every once in a while and get a few, or find a hen nesting, but I think it's not the norm.
We have had sequential bad hatches for 3-4 years now in the South East. There's just been too much wet weather and wet conditions, and everyone wants to blame the coyote on declining turkey populations but I'm not buying it. I do trap coyotes on my property bad that's to help with fawn recruitment.
Three or four years ago, I was walking the edge of a field shortly after daylight. I had heard a gobbler, and was creeping along as close to the edge as I could. Suddenly, I heard alarm putts and excited clucking in the edge of the timber just ahead of me. I immediately assumed I had been spotted by some hens, and froze. In a few seconds, a coyote popped out of the brush, saw me, and started trotting away, down the edge of the field.
I relaxed, figuring the birds had reacted to the coyote, not me. A few seconds later, a gobbler came flying down and landed maybe 30 yards away and immediately started hoofing it straight across the field to the brushy border of the creek maybe 100 yards away. My brain still had not processed the information to the point that said "SHOOT!", so I stood there slack jawed like an idiot. Within seconds, I realized the coyote had spun around upon seeing the turkey and was giving chase!
The turkey had a good head start, but the coyote almost caught him before he reached the other side of the field. I still remember the dust flying from the coyotes feet as he was laying them down trying to close the deal. For some reason, the bird never went airborne, but just kept running wide open. After they hit the brush, I could no longer see, but assume the bird was able to cross the creek, because I heard brief wingbeats. I never saw the coyote again.
I have absolutely no doubt the coyote would have caught the gobbler if he had been afforded only a few yards more to give chase. I learned then that adult birds, not only poults, are definitely at risk of being rendered into coyote feed.
Quote from: Happy on March 01, 2016, 04:38:32 PM
Agree coyotes are more detrimental to fawn and small game. Have been suprised that no one has mentioned the increase in hawks and eagles. At least in my area. Heck we even have bald eagles around here. Maybe it's just my area but we definitely have more birds of prey now than I can ever remember. I think they are harder on most pults than many realize.
I started seeing bald eagles around my house for the first time 6-8 years ago. They're beautiful, amazing birds and I enjoy seeing them, but I always wonder how many poults and hens they eat. I don't know if they'd pick on an adult gobbler or not.
Bob
Nice going! We also hunt coyotes (and fox) with hounds but we use black and tans and redbones. Any coyote you put some shot into is a good one!!
I called a coyote into my turkey setup last May. Has anyone else had this happen? When I told the farmer about it he asked if I killed it. I said nope, not in season. He just laughed and said so. I guess that sums up how people view Yates here. We have way too many
Have seen coyotes chase turkeys and deer.
Have had many come to call looking for a meal.
Quite a few hunts halted by a yote going after the birds i was calling.
Saw a jake caught by a coyote once.
Now Missouri lets you kill them in the spring again, so now when they come they are going to get some heavy-weight!
Quote from: beagler on March 02, 2016, 08:32:15 PM
We killed three last weekend in front of the hounds.
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e163/beagleguy/yotes.jpg) (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/beagleguy/media/yotes.jpg.html)
Great picture, thanks. :icon_thumright:
Bob
Coyotes do catch, kill and eat full grown Turkeys more often than one would think but where they really hurt the Turkey is during the nesting season..
If you understand Turkeys you know that the hen will go broody, meaning she absolutely won't leave the nest as she sits on her eggs. Farmers even run them over with disk plows and combines while they are sitting on the nest which shows how stubborn they are to leave the nest.
Coyotes in survival mode will search for the easiest meal available during that time period. A Hen turkey with a clutch full of eggs is an easy meal full of calories and nutrients and is most certainly a targeted species and meal.
Hens shed the feathers that are associated with scent ducts during nesting season so they cannot be tracked back and forth to the nest.
What empirical data can you reference to validate claims that nesting turkeys are targeted by coyotes?
They gonna die if in range
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Quote from: beagler on March 02, 2016, 08:32:15 PM
We killed three last weekend in front of the hounds.
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e163/beagleguy/yotes.jpg) (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/beagleguy/media/yotes.jpg.html)
Great job.
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Coyotes are definitely a problem on our property with the deer and turkey. But also keep in mind that nest raiders like coons, possums and skunks can be a major issue as well since they will wipe out a nest in no time. Those critters need to be controlled just as much as coyotes in my opinion.
There have been some studies done recently with coyotes. They show that by disturbing the social structure (taking out individuals) you may be increasing your predation rates. By removing members you create a vacuum for invaders to come in and investigate the territory. By having new members covering the area, you increase predator/prey interactions.
Also, if you are feeding corn or other feed (protein pellets, etc) you are increasing P/P interaction. Feeding stations attract turkeys and they nest near those locations. Your other opportunistic animals (nest predators) key in on those locations and studies have shown that nests within a certain distance were 100% predated. Your larger predators are also using the bait stations to pick off adult prey.
If you feed deer corn, you are also poisoning your turkeys. Deer corn is sold as wildlife feed because it contains high alflatoxin rates. Turkeys are very succeptible to alflatoxin. Just a little can be lethal.
Theses are just some quick thoughts I had after reading how gun-ho you guys are about killing coyotes. Very few people actually have the time to put in the intense effort to properly control predators.
With all due respect Hogbiologist, I don't see how the intruders invading because of a "vacuum" are going to cause anymore predation than the ones killed in the first place. As a turkey and deer
hunter I'm going to kill the predators of these animals anytime that I legally get the chance to. And although I am not a biologist, many years of coyote hunting has taught me that, at least around here, they are not terribly territorial. There isn't a line of coyotes waiting to get into a certain area as soon as one in that area is killed. Killing predators (when legal) may or may not help turkey populations. But it sure isn't going to hurt.
Quote from: Farmboy27 on March 04, 2016, 02:26:55 PM
With all due respect Hogbiologist, I don't see how the intruders invading because of a "vacuum" are going to cause anymore predation than the ones killed in the first place. As a turkey and deer
hunter I'm going to kill the predators of these animals anytime that I legally get the chance to. And although I am not a biologist, many years of coyote hunting has taught me that, at least around here, they are not terribly territorial. There isn't a line of coyotes waiting to get into a certain area as soon as one in that area is killed. Killing predators (when legal) may or may not help turkey populations. But it sure isn't going to hurt.
The study I'm referring to was done with GPS collars and tracking of coyotes in an area. It showed that when you took out members they went from patrolling their area to having new infiltrating invaders crisscrossing the entire area and trying to dominate the new area. This caused more animals to be encountered more in the interior of their home range.
That may well be true. I'm sure that the original "non intruder" coyotes never criss-crossed the area looking for prey!! I have hunted coyotes with hounds for years. Before turning the dogs losse we drive the back roads checking tracks to find the patch of woods or ridge that the coyote might be on. Believe me, a coyote does plenty of crisscrossing, not just patrolling!! A coyotes first concern is food. I'm not saying that they kill huge amounts of turkeys. But don't try to tell me that shooting one is going to cause more harm than good because new coyotes eat more than existing coyotes!!
I removed 5 coyotes off my property last year (trapping) and have hardly seen any sign of them since.
Quote from: HogBiologist on March 04, 2016, 01:57:38 PM
There have been some studies done recently with coyotes. They show that by disturbing the social structure (taking out individuals) you may be increasing your predation rates. By removing members you create a vacuum for invaders to come in and investigate the territory. By having new members covering the area, you increase predator/prey interactions.
Also, if you are feeding corn or other feed (protein pellets, etc) you are increasing P/P interaction. Feeding stations attract turkeys and they nest near those locations. Your other opportunistic animals (nest predators) key in on those locations and studies have shown that nests within a certain distance were 100% predated. Your larger predators are also using the bait stations to pick off adult prey.
If you feed deer corn, you are also poisoning your turkeys. Deer corn is sold as wildlife feed because it contains high alflatoxin rates. Turkeys are very succeptible to alflatoxin. Just a little can be lethal.
Theses are just some quick thoughts I had after reading how gun-ho you guys are about killing coyotes. Very few people actually have the time to put in the intense effort to properly control predators.
I have the shoot to kill green light on coyotes at both horse farms I hunt. A farmer behind one horse farm raises chickens and he keeps them pretty well shot down.
A few years ago, I had a coyote run a huge 5x5 buck away before it got in bow range. I had been hunting that buck since the season before and it would have been the first time he ever got in range. Nope, never saw him again. The coyote was moving too fast to get an arrow through him. He couldn't out-run my rifle a few weeks later though.
Jim
Quote from: HogBiologist on March 04, 2016, 03:10:56 PM
Quote from: Farmboy27 on March 04, 2016, 02:26:55 PM
With all due respect Hogbiologist, I don't see how the intruders invading because of a "vacuum" are going to cause anymore predation than the ones killed in the first place. As a turkey and deer
hunter I'm going to kill the predators of these animals anytime that I legally get the chance to. And although I am not a biologist, many years of coyote hunting has taught me that, at least around here, they are not terribly territorial. There isn't a line of coyotes waiting to get into a certain area as soon as one in that area is killed. Killing predators (when legal) may or may not help turkey populations. But it sure isn't going to hurt.
The study I'm referring to was done with GPS collars and tracking of coyotes in an area. It showed that when you took out members they went from patrolling their area to having new infiltrating invaders crisscrossing the entire area and trying to dominate the new area. This caused more animals to be encountered more in the interior of their home range.
So if i kill one coyote on a square mile , another from the next square mile will invade the dead yotes territory? Now the invader is covering 2 square miles?
I would think the yote would spend most of its time in the area with the most prey.
How was the control area?
I would also think 1 coyote on 2 miles is better than 2 on 2 miles.
What about fear of humans , give them a pass and they lose it.
If i you kill a female , she isnt having any pups.
The coyote that is up patrolling? Is one that is more likely to run into some trouble! :fud:
Coyote Space Use and Population Turnover in Virginia's Western Mountains: Implications for White-Tailed Deer
Author(s): Dana J. Morin - Department of Fish and Wildlife Conservation, Virginia Polytechnic and State University; Marcella J. Kelly - Department of Fish and Wildlife Conservation, Virginia Polytechnic and State University; Nelson W. Lafon - Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries
Year: 2014
Abstract: The Virginia Appalachian Coyote Study was initiated in 2011 in the western mountains of Virginia in response to documented declines in local white-tailed deer population on low productivity public lands. We deployed 21 satellite GPS collars on 19 coyotes over two years, and used biased-random bridges to estimate utilization, intensity, and recursion distributions to evaluate space use and territoriality. In addition, we collected fecal DNA from 5082 scat samples on established transects in the 3 summers and 2 winters (2011-2013). We used mtDNA to differentiate coyote, bobcat, and bear scat samples and used microsatellite markers to identify individuals and calculate relatedness between conspecifics. Coyote space use was highly variable (1.2 - 603 mi2) with individuals defending stable home ranges, shifting home ranges, or displaying transient behavior. Highest intensity of use was at the edges of home ranges, suggesting high effort allocated to defending territories and high levels of competition. Despite high detection rates of collared individuals in scat samples (75%), a large number of coyotes were only detected one time (84%), and few coyotes were detected throughout the study (0.02%). Considering the high known mortality rate of collared coyotes (63%), this suggests there is high population turnover and delayed dispersal resulting in larger, loosely-formed family groups. Potential implications for white-tailed deer include increased predation risk and associated stress as encounter rates with coyotes may increase with unstable coyote home ranges and high population turnover. This is the first of three studies evaluating predator guild impacts to white-tailed deer in the area.
I shoot everyone i can but i dont think they have to much of impact on the population. Bobcats opossums raccoons skunks and hawks have more of a impact on the population then yotes.
Kill all of them you can... They don't do anything good for the population. They are a dime a dozen where I'm at. Raccoons, Opossums and Skunks definitely hurt alot too. Anything that wants to eat eggs will surely eat lead first if I have anything to do with it...
Kill all you can. They are predators, they will catch and kill anything that they can.
I noticed my turkey numbers were dipping due to predators on my private property. I had a simple, easy fix to that problem. Trap them. Not only coyote but racoon are a big baby turkey eater as well.