Hey all,
I am not new to hunting but I am new to turkey hunting. I turkey hunted last spring and it was a blast. Called in 3 gobblers! one busted me and the other two never came into range. So here is my issue. Where I hunt is my father-in-laws property. 150 acres. It has 3 fields on it but honestly I rarely if ever see turkey in the fields (mostly always see them in the woods). The fields are not taken care of (mowed) so the grasses, golden rod, and other vegetation can grow pretty dang high so that may be the reason they don't go out there much (low visibility for them) anyways, here is my situation. My father-in-law is an avid deer hunter but will go out turkey hunting. He is not really into the turkey hunting but does it to pass the time and because of this he doesn't take it ultra serious. We don't go scouting the night before to try and find where they roost etc...and he is the type that it's his way or the highway. I may try and do some scouting this year but pretend I cannot. Here is what I did last year:
The days he hunted with me I was stuck doing what he wanted which was he set up in the back field so I set up in the front knowing chances of seeing a turkey were slim and none. I waited till light to listen if I could hear any calls what so ever (hen or gobbles). I tried some yelps on my slate to no avail. so after about an hour, I decided to run and gun which I had never done before but read lots about. This worked very well. While walking through the woods I would try hen calls here or there and bam...suddenly got a gobble. So I scrambled to set-up and this is where I blew it...he saw me moving at about 30 yards trying to get sighted for a shot and took off running. Anyways, this is exactly what I did the rest of the season. I would set up on the field where he dropped me off with his quad, wait an hour or so and then run and gun through the woods.
Sorry for the long story but I was wondering if anyone else does this (sit and then run n gun)? If so, how long do you wait in an area that you are not hearing gobbles/hens (I know some Toms will not gobble) before moving on? If you hear a gobble, how long will you attempt to call that turkey in before calling it quits and trying to move around him from a different direction? Last year I had a Tom gobbling at my calls for almost an hour (I was up a pretty steep hill though and couldn't see him but every so often I would yelp and he would gobble back), the gobbles never sounded like they were getting closer so I figured he was hung up so I tried to get around him but he never made another gobble. I am looking forward to this year but trying to step up my game. I may try and do some scouting myself but again...even if I find some roosted toms, it will all depend on what my father-in-law decides he wants to do, unless of course he doesn't go out.
If I know turkeys are in the area then I'll hand around for a bit. If I hear no gobble then I move on to a different location. If I dont hear anything at first light gobble, I'll give it a little time, not much for me, then I'm off on a hike. If I have a bird gobbling I'll let him tell me what he wants to hear. If he gobbles at my calls I'll hush up and let him look for me. Need to take terrain in consideration when calling, they like to be able to see. Every bird is different, some like loud, aggressive calling and come running in like a mad man, and some will gobble and walk the other way when you call. Gotta be able to figure out wheres he's going to strut for the ladies. Need to look and listen if they quit gobbling and try to listen for a spit and a drum. They dont always gobble when coming in. Persistance pays off and every time you go out you'll learn something different. There are lots of good folks on here that can give you some good pointers too. I'm no expet by any means but normally have fairly good success. Good luck this spring and keep after em. Jeff
Disc up them fields a few weeks before the season and I bet you will start seeing birds in them. As far as when to move or stay - I like to move if I have little to no confidence in an area, but will grind it out all day if I know one is around. Time, screw ups, and the turkeys will teach you what to do and when, but if you want a good jump start, pick up a copy of Col. Tom Kelly's A Fork In The Road. My best advice to you would be when you think your moving around slow enough, go SLOWER!!!
Quote from: dirt road ninja on January 08, 2015, 02:00:14 PM
Disc up them fields a few weeks before the season and I bet you will start seeing birds in them. As far as when to move or stay - I like to move if I have little to no confidence in an area, but will grind it out all day if I know one is around. Time, screw ups, and the turkeys will teach you what to do and when, but if you want a good jump start, pick up a copy of Col. Tom Kelly's A Fork In The Road. My best advice to you would be when you think your moving around slow enough, go SLOWER!!!
These fields aren't exactly like nice farm fields, they have 3-6 foot high grasses, goldenrod, other vegetation so with the exception of the 4 wheeler path going through them even I have a hard time seeing over them. I have been scouting and deer hunting this 150 acres for the past 4 years and have seen only one turkey (hen) once in the smallest (2-3 acres) of the 3 fields, the other 2 fields are about 5 and 12 acres. I have seen TONS of turkeys in the woods though. A decent chunk of the woods is not dense woods since it has been logged before so I think that's why the turkeys hang there. In fact this past deer season I saw 4 toms and 3 jakes cruising together one day and about a flock of 20+ turkeys another day (couldn't tell if all were hens or not).
If ya cant disc or cut them down, it will be years until they become good turkey habitat. It may be worth the hassle to cut them down or disc them every other year. The new growth is a lot higher in protein and a lot more palatable to the deer. The turkeys will feel safer in the open while they forage for new sprouts, seeds and bugs. All in all habitat improvement is the one thing that can really help out your birds long term. In turn it will provide you with more opportunities to kill turkeys and your F-I-L to kill more deer. You wouldn't have to replant them, mother nature will provide ample natural browse, but you could always throw seed out if you desired. The Mississippi department of Wildlife and Fisheries website has lots of information on this subject if your interest. Try it in one of your small fields, it doesn't have to look like a farm, just knock it down or turn it up some.
Quote from: dirt road ninja on January 08, 2015, 05:13:40 PM
If ya cant disc or cut them down, it will be years until they become good turkey habitat. It may be worth the hassle to cut them down or disc them every other year. The new growth is a lot higher in protein and a lot more palatable to the deer. The turkeys will feel safer in the open while they forage for new sprouts, seeds and bugs. All in all habitat improvement is the one thing that can really help out your birds long term. In turn it will provide you with more opportunities to kill turkeys and your F-I-L to kill more deer. You wouldn't have to replant them, mother nature will provide ample natural browse, but you could always throw seed out if you desired. The Mississippi department of Wildlife and Fisheries website has lots of information on this subject if your interest. Try it in one of your small fields, it doesn't have to look like a farm, just knock it down or turn it up some.
It's unfortunately my father in laws land and he has made the decision to not brush hog it
I'm with the others. I'd do something with the fields, even if was just mow them down and or burn them.
I don't just sit, and I don't run and gun. Especially on 150 acres. Wouldn't take but a few minutes and you could have that boggered up for the day. I'd do more Bobcat'n aka slip-assin. Basically just slow and steady then sit a while if you didn't strike a bird. If you could burn or mow the fields they would be a great place to slip around checking, especially on drizzly days.
On 150 acres, there is not much room for runnin and gunnin. I have 200, and I can usually be to the back of the property in 15 minutes or so.
I second the suggestions about mowing and discing. Some of the wildest times I've had were sitting at the edge of freshly plowed fields. The turkeys love to come out and eat worms and such. I've got some plots that I plan on doing just that-- strip disk the fields before season and then throw down some ladino clover seed and some cover wheat.
As to your tactics, I would back up a bit. Find where they are roosting, and then find out where they are feeding. Sit down somewhere on the line between the two and wait. If and when you do move, go to where they feed in the mornings and set up there. On 150 acres you can probably find a dozen spots that will make good set-ups. Sneak from one to the next to the next .
Remember that your biggest problem in all this is disturbing the turkeys. Guys who run and gun on public land have vast territories in which to hunt. 150 acres is relatively small. On my 200 acres, I try to see and not be seen-- hear and not be heard. I don't just wait in ambush, but I do try to limit my calling and movement to what's necessary.
Quote from: shaman on January 09, 2015, 05:39:53 AM
On 150 acres, there is not much room for runnin and gunnin. I have 200, and I can usually be to the back of the property in 15 minutes or so.
I second the suggestions about mowing and discing. Some of the wildest times I've had were sitting at the edge of freshly plowed fields. The turkeys love to come out and eat worms and such. I've got some plots that I plan on doing just that-- strip disk the fields before season and then throw down some ladino clover seed and some cover wheat.
As to your tactics, I would back up a bit. Find where they are roosting, and then find out where they are feeding. Sit down somewhere on the line between the two and wait. If and when you do move, go to where they feed in the mornings and set up there. On 150 acres you can probably find a dozen spots that will make good set-ups. Sneak from one to the next to the next .
Remember that your biggest problem in all this is disturbing the turkeys. Guys who run and gun on public land have vast territories in which to hunt. 150 acres is relatively small. On my 200 acres, I try to see and not be seen-- hear and not be heard. I don't just wait in ambush, but I do try to limit my calling and movement to what's necessary.
well I just don't think that works here. let me explain... My father-in-law bought these 150 acres 4 years ago. For the first 3 years he actually did have the fields brush hogged. It didn't seem to make a difference when it came to deer hunting so this year wanted to build a permanent box blind on the bigger back field (the one that is maybe 8 acres big). It took us literally all summer (it's crazy...15 high...10 ft long by 8ft wide and can easily seat 3 office chairs. In my opinion WAY unnecessary but it is comfortable on those crazy hold rainy days for deer hunting. Anyways, this year because of the money for this project, he skipped having the fields brush hogged and bam...more deer in the fields than the past 3 years so in his mind brush hogging made it worse and he will no longer let it happen so I cant even offer to pay to have it done. He simply does NOT want it mowed. Anyways, We hunted those fields last spring for turkey with ZERO turkeys in the fields. I hunted every weekend and a few days during each week. not one turkey in the fields. I think what is happening is there are some cut corn fields neighboring our Neighbors properties...so the corn fields don't actually touch our property and that is where the turkeys head. And any turkeys that don't go there stick to our open woods. It is kind of hard to describe but it appears our 150 acres are the only woods that have ever been logged so are definitely more open than the neighboring woods. The neighboring woods have very dense under brush and such and I rarely see turkeys over there but in our woods I see quite a few. Actually, there hasn't been one day this past year of deer season I didn't see at least one turkey.
far away pic
closer pic
the only fields I have ever seen turkey in and it was twice was field #1 (turkey Tom during deer season October 5th last year) and field #4 which had a hen during spring turkey this past year but no other turkeys. What I did last year was walk VERY slow during the day from one field to the other except field 1 since that's where my father-in-law sat all day. He saw nothing, while I saw quite a few birds. Called 3 in through out the spring turkey season. one busted me and the other 2 wouldn't come in closer than 50 yards or so.
Well if you cannot do anything about the fields and you want to turkey hunt then you should possibly look for some where else to hunt. My opinion is screw the deer and make the turkey habitat but I am not your father in law. One thing to note is, good turkey habitat is good deer habitat, but not the other way around. Good luck.
The cheapest and most beneficial thing you can do is rotational mowing. First year, bush hog the fields completely. The next year you bushhog 2/3 of each field. The third year you bus hog 1/3. What you want to accomplish ia diversity and edge. The oldest 1/3 growth provides some small woody vegetation that is not too thick for turkey but which provides good browse for deer. The newest mowing should be fertilized and, if necessary, limed. What you want in this third is to accomplish strutting areas in the hunting season and grasshopper/small seed production for the poults. The last third is an in between for diversity. After the initial complete bush hogging/dissing/ bulldozing, you only have to manage 1/3 of the fields each year to obtain attractive diversity. Just be sure when laying out your thirds that the game can directly access any of the thirds directly from the woods.
Oh, and I would do this mowing about a month before each season. Turkeys don't like to get the hems of their dresses wet by the early morning dew, yet that time period allows enough time fro growth to attract the grasshoppers. The poults may get more seeds and grubs from the latter two successions.
This is a win-win for you and your father-in-law.
There's a difference between mowing/bush hogging and strip disking and plowing. If all you do is cut down the grass, there may or may not be anything there for the deer and turkey to eat. It sounds like the turkeys are leaving your place because the buffet is over on the other properties. Tall grass is also a turn-off to turkeys. They like to see as far as possible. It's too easy for predators to sneak up on them in tall grass. I've been known to go out and mow with my riding mower.
I suggest the best bang for the buck (so to speak) is to strip disk or plow and harrow, and then plant clover for them to feed on-- 5lbs to the acre hand scattered. All my gobs have clover in their craws when I shoot them. I wouldn't do big plots either. Just a few rows in a field. A quarter acre here and there would do you. An alternative would be to get a big tarp. Stake it out in a spot. Let the sun hit it for a couple weeks and kill off everything and then hand-scatter some clover on the dirt.
I'm sending you a link to some habitat How-To's on the KY Wildlife website.
http://fw.ky.gov/Wildlife/Pages/Habitat-How-To%27s.aspx
A lot of them were written by the biologist that is assigned to our area here in Bracken County KY. He came out and did an assessment of our place for free and made suggestions. I was on a small budget and surprisingly the low-cost and no-cost solutions have been the best for the deer and turkeys. All of them are on the link. The best ones so far for me have been edge-feathering and strip discing . Contact your local wildlife biologist. He can probably point you in the right direction. Your goal should be keeping the turkeys and deer that bed/roost on your property from skedaddling to the neighbors.
Funny: Silvestris, you and I are seeing the same thing here. You posted as I was writing my response. BTW: are you the same Silvestris that was over on T&TH? If so, Howdy.
Yep, that's me. If more would manage their small fields in this sort of fashion, there would be greater poult production and therefore more turkeys at a very low cost. The idea is to provide for all of the needs of the turkey/deer on your property. Not all properties are candidates, but this one, other than size, looks to be a candidate.
Quote from: silvestris on January 09, 2015, 09:48:00 AM
Yep, that's me. If more would manage their small fields in this sort of fashion, there would be greater poult production and therefore more turkeys at a very low cost. The idea is to provide for all of the needs of the turkey/deer on your property. Not all properties are candidates, but this one, other than size, looks to be a candidate.
well I have two comments...again we had these fields all brush hogged the first 3 years of ownership with ZERO improvement in deer/Turkey sightings in those fields (lots of turkeys/deer in the woods though). this past year my father-in-law opted to not brushhog the fields and there was tons of sightings of deer in the fields, still no sightings of turkey so he decided he'd rather not brush hog anymore. Im thinking he didn't give it enough years but who knows. Anyways, its his land and if he doesn't want it brush hogged than that's the way it is...I will try and persuade him but even if I paid for it he wouldn't have it at this point. So it looks like im stuck hunting the woods. Fortunately as stated before, I had a few optortunities on tom's last year so I am hopefully for them this year :)
There was a similar sort of conversation going on at Turkey and Turkey Hunting (http://forum.turkeyandturkeyhunting.com/forum/) a few years ago that sort of reminds me of this.
Check this out:
Deep Woods vs. Fields (http://genesis9.angzva.com/?p=1928)
Sons-in-law don't know diddly. You have to find a way to make him think it is his idea.
That idea of the free eval from the wildlife biologist outta get him going. Tell him you have a friend that had one.
BTW: Deer love tall grass and weeds for bedding. I wouldn't mow everything. If all I was doing was mowing, I'd mow lanes and leave islands for the deer to bed. Both deer and turkey are drawn to edges. Increase the edge of this or that, and you've improved it.
Quote from: shaman on January 09, 2015, 10:37:16 AM
That idea of the free eval from the wildlife biologist outta get him going. Tell him you have a friend that had one.
BTW: Deer love tall grass and weeds for bedding. I wouldn't mow everything. If all I was doing was mowing, I'd mow lanes and leave islands for the deer to bed. Both deer and turkey are drawn to edges. Increase the edge of this or that, and you've improved it.
we did that in the front two fields. Again, saw much more deer leaving the fields unmowed/brushhogged this year than we did the other 3 years. Could have been a coincidence though.
No, I think you're onto something. Those deer are gravitating to the tall grass for bedding. You need to keep some of it. Scout. Find where they are bedding and then leave that grass unmowed.
For turkey, at least on my property, a mowed strip along the edge of a field is a plus. They also like to walk down tracks and roads-- just about anywhere they can see at a distance.
Quote from: shaman on January 09, 2015, 12:40:16 PM
No, I think you're onto something. Those deer are gravitating to the tall grass for bedding. You need to keep some of it. Scout. Find where they are bedding and then leave that grass unmowed.
For turkey, at least on my property, a mowed strip along the edge of a field is a plus. They also like to walk down tracks and roads-- just about anywhere they can see at a distance.
That is why I think they hang in the woods a lot because the woods are so open. you cant tell on that google map photo I posted but the woods inside the yellow grid have been logged so they are very open with a few logging trails going through them. The woods around the property are unlogged and very thick.
I dont know what state youre in but most every state that has turkeys has pretty decent turkey hunting on public where you can "run-n-gun" a heck of a lot more.
Thoughts:
1) This coming year, OBSERVE as much as you can ALL areas marked in red. Esp rainy/windy days. Look for birds in these fields, grazing, strutting/fanning, etc. I recognize this isn't YOUR land, but ... it would tell you where the turkeys like to be, in open fields. Given the number of "open" fields next to your #1 field, I'm not surprised that mowing/disc'ing/clearing it produced "results". One other thing -- deer & turkey LOVE sanctuary/hidden fields; let ALL of the surrounding trees/shrubs/etc around field #1 GROW WAY UP and "enclose" field #1. In 5 years from now, *phew* -- mecca.
2) The purple-lookin' spot w/the X is where I'd trek & sit & start my hunts; it'd be even BETTER if it was the highest point on this 150 acres. But even if it's not, it would put you DEAD CENTER of the property, with maximum options to move in any given direction -- or, not move at all. Sit tight & let the birds come to papa.
Just some initial thoughts, but ... I'd have to walk this land to get a better feel for it ... but, I'm the hunter that likes "path of least resistance"; if birds/deer seem to like the woods, hunt the woods; if they like the fields, hunt the fields. But, I'm tellin' ya, field #1 could be a bad-*ss spot, 5 years from now, if you managed it right.
BGD
PS. Pisser alert - I could *very* easily see birds roosted in your trees, & then flying down into those clear fields... :) hahaha
Try and find another place to hunt where you can hunt the way you prefer. 150 acres is reall not enough land to do much running and gunning. It is plenty to sit and wait if there are turkeys there. However, waiting in a grown up field is a waste of time.
As for spooking the birds, see if you can use a crow call or owl call to make them gobble. Then ease faily close and make your setup before calling. When you use your turkey call to make them gobble, many times they are headed your way while you are trying to get set up and they end up seeing you.
The best tip I can give you when running and gunning is to never call without looking for a spot you can quickly sit down should a turkey answer you. This is a lesson most hunters (myself included) have had to learn the hard way.
Where you at in Alabama ? I'm in the South end. (Monroe County)
Quote from: bamagtrdude on January 09, 2015, 04:15:55 PM
Thoughts:
1) This coming year, OBSERVE as much as you can ALL areas marked in red. Esp rainy/windy days. Look for birds in these fields, grazing, strutting/fanning, etc. I recognize this isn't YOUR land, but ... it would tell you where the turkeys like to be, in open fields. Given the number of "open" fields next to your #1 field, I'm not surprised that mowing/disc'ing/clearing it produced "results". One other thing -- deer & turkey LOVE sanctuary/hidden fields; let ALL of the surrounding trees/shrubs/etc around field #1 GROW WAY UP and "enclose" field #1. In 5 years from now, *phew* -- mecca.
2) The purple-lookin' spot w/the X is where I'd trek & sit & start my hunts; it'd be even BETTER if it was the highest point on this 150 acres. But even if it's not, it would put you DEAD CENTER of the property, with maximum options to move in any given direction -- or, not move at all. Sit tight & let the birds come to papa.
Just some initial thoughts, but ... I'd have to walk this land to get a better feel for it ... but, I'm the hunter that likes "path of least resistance"; if birds/deer seem to like the woods, hunt the woods; if they like the fields, hunt the fields. But, I'm tellin' ya, field #1 could be a bad-*ss spot, 5 years from now, if you managed it right.
BGD
PS. Pisser alert - I could *very* easily see birds roosted in your trees, & then flying down into those clear fields... :) hahaha
All I have to say is wow. You are spot on about the purple X. That is where I have seen multiple toms when I was running and gunning last spring. 4 toms on 2 different days in paarticular. And yes that is the highest part of the property. The field that is outside field 1 to the right and above the yellow is a cut corn field that is not ours. It holds quite a few turkeys but is across a 20 foot wide creak so I rarely see those turkeys fly over and our birds fly over there.
Quote from: J Hook Max on January 09, 2015, 08:59:38 PM
Try and find another place to hunt where you can hunt the way you prefer. 150 acres is reall not enough land to do much running and gunning. It is plenty to sit and wait if there are turkeys there. However, waiting in a grown up field is a waste of time.
As for spooking the birds, see if you can use a crow call or owl call to make them gobble. Then ease faily close and make your setup before calling. When you use your turkey call to make them gobble, many times they are headed your way while you are trying to get set up and they end up seeing you.
The best tip I can give you when running and gunning is to never call without looking for a spot you can quickly sit down should a turkey answer you. This is a lesson most hunters (myself included) have had to learn the hard way.
Where you at in Alabama ? I'm in the South end. (Monroe County)
I am actually in new york. I don't mind sitting and waiting. And by running and gunning I walk very very slow and call. Thew reason I do this is the map is missleading. The center of the property is like the peak of a mountain/hill and some parts are rather steep where a turkey would never climb up or down so if I hear a turkey in one of those directions...that's when I move my setup and I move very slowly and quietly looking and listening as I go. The turkey that busted me didn't see me coming. I was already setup. He gobbled and I waited. Problem is where he came up he had a buddy to the right of him I didn't see so when I moved to try and shoot him the buddy saw me and they both tool off running.
Quote from: Bigeclipse on January 10, 2015, 10:21:40 AM
Quote from: bamagtrdude on January 09, 2015, 04:15:55 PM
Thoughts:
1) This coming year, OBSERVE as much as you can ALL areas marked in red. Esp rainy/windy days. Look for birds in these fields, grazing, strutting/fanning, etc. I recognize this isn't YOUR land, but ... it would tell you where the turkeys like to be, in open fields. Given the number of "open" fields next to your #1 field, I'm not surprised that mowing/disc'ing/clearing it produced "results". One other thing -- deer & turkey LOVE sanctuary/hidden fields; let ALL of the surrounding trees/shrubs/etc around field #1 GROW WAY UP and "enclose" field #1. In 5 years from now, *phew* -- mecca.
2) The purple-lookin' spot w/the X is where I'd trek & sit & start my hunts; it'd be even BETTER if it was the highest point on this 150 acres. But even if it's not, it would put you DEAD CENTER of the property, with maximum options to move in any given direction -- or, not move at all. Sit tight & let the birds come to papa.
Just some initial thoughts, but ... I'd have to walk this land to get a better feel for it ... but, I'm the hunter that likes "path of least resistance"; if birds/deer seem to like the woods, hunt the woods; if they like the fields, hunt the fields. But, I'm tellin' ya, field #1 could be a bad-*ss spot, 5 years from now, if you managed it right.
BGD
PS. Pisser alert - I could *very* easily see birds roosted in your trees, & then flying down into those clear fields... :) hahaha
All I have to say is wow. You are spot on about the purple X. That is where I have seen multiple toms when I was running and gunning last spring. 4 toms on 2 different days in paarticular. And yes that is the highest part of the property. The field that is outside field 1 to the right and above the yellow is a cut corn field that is not ours. It holds quite a few turkeys but is across a 20 foot wide creak so I rarely see those turkeys fly over and our birds fly over there.
:) You're welcome. And, hey, if the purple X marks the spot - sit tight, don't run & gun. They want to come there anyway. Throw out some dekes, camo up, and blast 'em. Get there WAY EARLY, when it's VERY dark (preferably, no full moon); slip in there quiet as a church mouse, setup, and wait for daylight. When you hear the 1st gobbler, hit a "yelp yelp yelp" on your box call & enjoy the show.
Another idea to improve the quality of the land is if he won't allow you to disc up those fields is to ask him if you cam disk up the atv roads through the woods and plant them in grasses. it will attract the birds like a magnet, create dreamy set ups to kill turkeys and also help young poults which depend heavily on grassy openings for insects .
Put some crack(corn) nuggets feeders out they will come! I had a guy take me one time on a lease that had feeders, we did not hear anything off the roost. He pulled out a noise maker that sounded just like the feeder going off and whirled that sucker around and gobble gobble gobble the woods exploded . lol
Quote from: shaman on January 09, 2015, 09:35:11 AM
I'm sending you a link to some habitat How-To's on the KY Wildlife website.
http://fw.ky.gov/Wildlife/Pages/Habitat-How-To%27s.aspx
Thanks for the tips as well Shaman!
Just mow some narrow strips in the fields, disc them up and plant milo..these long strips of milo will pull turkey in from a long ways..I've done this many times and it is my go to planting for turkeys.