Hello guys, this is my first post here after doing a lot of reading. Incredible site!
I have a Remington 870 Express (3 inch) 26" barrel. I've shot a few different 3" #5 lead shells through it with the two best being Winchester XX and Turkey Thugs. Surprisingly Winchester grey box 1.5 ounce patterns about as well (making me wonder if I could be over choked and blowing the higher payloads out more). I shot a 40 yard 10" with the thugs that scored 92 hits, but the average at 40 yards is closer to 75 hits, and down to 55 or so if the barrel is too clean or too dirty. The lower the hit number, the more spread out and patchy the pattern gets, with some holes bigger than I like.
At 35 yards I get a little over 100 hits, with a fairly even pattern. At 30 I'm around 150 hits and no turkey would stand a chance. I'm using a Jelly Head .665 choke.
I polished the barrel some using gun oil on 0000 steel wool chucked in a drill, and afterwards deep cleaned the barrel following the instructions found on here. I have not yet found or ordered the cleaners needed to do the bore polish that's popular on here, but when I look down the barrel, I can see pretty obvious rings every few inches. I think it would take some metal removal beyond just polishing to get rid of those tool mark rings.
I'm not new to guns in general, but new to turkey hunting and counting holes in a 10" circle. I'm not sure what to think with this gun and have some questions.
1.) How attainable is 100 evenly spaced hits at 40 yards with lead #5 (other than Long Beard)? Am I expecting too much for #5 lead?
2.) Is it likely that the rings in the barrel could be hurting the pattern this gun throws?
3.) Is it more likely that I need a tighter, or more open choke, or is it impossible to know without trying one or the other? The Jelly head/870 combo was highly rated on here and I was hoping for more, but I can understand that not all barrels are created equal.
I may be sending this gun back to Remington after turkey season ends. It does not eject shells very well. I have polished the chamber and removed a burr that the cases were hanging on as well as remove and clean the extractor, spring, plunger, etc. but it's still very weak and does not eject 100%. Rather than do more myself and void the warranty I might just send it back to have them go over it. Would you advise I also try to get the barrel replaced, or is what I'm describing common for 870's (my Lanber O/U is smooth as could be but has chrome lined barrels))?
As a side note: I am tempted to try #6's as I'm sure they'll put more shot in the pattern, but I'm on the fence of how I feel about taking shots over 35 yards with #6 lead anyway. #5's will already get me to 35 yards with sufficienty pattern density and I'd rather have the greater energy. I'm also against buying the spendy heavier than lead stuff, at least for now. The Long Beard is a possibility, but I'll probably wait till next year to try that if all else fails.
So, long story short: I'm not trying to build a lead-shooting gun that I expect to shoot an unreasonable distance with, but if 100 hits in a 10" circle at 40 yards is attainable without going to extremes I'd like my equipment to perform to the best of it's ability.
If anybody has advice for a turkey gun newbie I would appreciate it!
Thank you,
Tucker
I have a 870 3" 26" Barrel with a Redhead Blackout .665 and Longbeard XR 3" #6 that puts 150 in a 10" circle at 40 yards.
Quote from: COssman14 on May 14, 2014, 10:41:14 PM
I have a 870 3" 26" Barrel with a Redhead Blackout .665 and Longbeard XR 3" #6 that puts 150 in a 10" circle at 40 yards.
If you want to see an instant tight pattern out of that gun buy some Winchester LB's in 5's or 6's. I have a new rem 870sm that had a barrel like you described with allot of tool markings. Sent it to my gunsmith and after extensive polishing it will turn 160's with XX 3/2/6's. Ventilator .655 is a killer choke in that gun if you want to give 6's a try. Honestly I have tried every gun choke combo with 5's and finally broke 100 for the first time with HV 3" 5's. Too much time and trouble for me to get the 5's over 100. Winchester LB's will instantly give good numbers at 40 but the patterns from 0-30yds are super tight and you might want a red dot or scope. Best way for me to determine what I need out of any particular gun is the terrain I am hunting. The lease I hunted this year a factory full choke would have been fine with XX 5's or 6's. Shots were inside 30yds due to the lay of the land. Hunting in the midwest I hunt with my tighter shooting guns at 40.
:morning:
My experience with sending a gun to Rem wasn't a timely one. What yer experiencing isnt a great big deal to a gun repairman. Personally, I would contact William @ Sumtoy as he's a guru and machinist, plus a great guy to deal with. He can make that gun do what you want it to!
If I wanted 5s I'd go factory choke and FliteControl. Lead 6s will kill a turkey well past 40 yards. With the existence of the BPS and 835, there is no need to have to work on a pump shotgun to get it to work.
Sounds to me like you just havn't hit your right choke shell combo yet.
I dont think you need to have any work done yet.
Quote from: mikejd on May 15, 2014, 09:51:56 AM
Sounds to me like you just havn't hit your right choke shell combo yet.
I dont think you need to have any work done yet.
x2. The quickest and most cost effective route would be to try the win. longbeard in 5 shot with your existing choke. That should have no problems doing well over 100 in the 10" at 40 yrds. If you want to stick to conventional lead shells, you may need to go tighter on your choke. I have gotten over 100 with the Winchester "grey box" 3-1 7/8-5s and fed turkey thug 3-1 7/8-5s with a .650 Sumtoy in a Benelli. For comparison, this same gun has done 108 (low) to 129 (hi) with Winchester long beard 3-1 3/4-4s thru a kicks .665.Give Sumtoy a call and he will hook you up. On the functioning issue, I would contact Remington if your gun is still under warranty. You paid good money for a gun and it should at least function correctly.
Thanks for everyone's input. I think before next spring I'll talk to Sumtoy. For those that have done it, do you recommend sending the gun to him to let Sumtoy work up a choke for it, or just try one of his recommended chokes?
There's some extra money for shipping and services to let him work up a choke/load, but I'd imagine the result would be great.
Tucker
Quote from: peashooter on June 06, 2014, 12:08:52 PM
Thanks for everyone's input. I think before next spring I'll talk to Sumtoy. For those that have done it, do you recommend sending the gun to him to let Sumtoy work up a choke for it, or just try one of his recommended chokes?
There's some extra money for shipping and services to let him work up a choke/load, but I'd imagine the result would be great.
Tucker
What I'm gonna do... :blob10:
The first 2 birds that I ever saw shot were with win 6s. I killed one and my brother killed one with em. Lead sixes will definitely hammer birds to 35-40......why even worry of shootin farther than that. Also, though they are pretty expensive, hevi 13 sixes are hardto beat. No experience with sevens, but there are very good things on here about them also. ^^^and like the above posts, those long beards might help ya. Before ya spend a lot of cash on chokes etc..simply switching loads may help. I would try long beards and hevi 13 Good luck brother
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My 870 SM had a barrel like that, no matter what I did or tried it would not shoot a 40 yard turkey pattern, had the rings you described in the barrel, I tried polishing it also didn't do any good. I think it was a duck gun. Any way believe it or not I took a chance and ordered a short, ported, turkey barrel off ebay, There is no name on the barrel only the size shells it shoots. It made the 870 SM shoot like a turkey gun, I don't count 10 inch circles but at 40 yards if I do my job a turkey will not walk out of the pattern. I shot 3.5 inch winchester supreme HV #5's.
First, I would try longbeards, Second I would Try #6 shot (trust me after 60 birds with #6 I know it will kill at 40 plus a little wiggle room) Third, if you've polished it and still can see machine marks, (the machine marks are a dead ringer it's an Express apposed to a SP barrel as the final honing is skipped on express barrels as a cost saving measure) you didn't polish it enough and you might try having it professionally done. It's cheaper than you might think.
Lastly I have two 870 and neither of them will shoot #4 at all and #5 is marginal at best, but you load them with #6 and it's death and destruction all day long.
Quote from: Gooserbat on June 06, 2014, 03:34:46 PM
First, I would try longbeards, Second I would Try #6 shot (trust me after 60 birds with #6 I know it will kill at 40 plus a little wiggle room) Third, if you've polished it and still can see machine marks, (the machine marks are a dead ringer it's an Express apposed to a SP barrel as the final honing is skipped on express barrels as a cost saving measure) you didn't polish it enough and you might try having it professionally done. It's cheaper than you might think.
Lastly I have two 870 and neither of them will shoot #4 at all and #5 is marginal at best, but you load them with #6 and it's death and destruction all day long.
That's been the story with my 870's, they are all business with Win 6's but the 5 patterns are mediocre. Kicks .655 and Ventilator .655 best results. Win LB XR's are guaranteed patterns to 40yds but may have to look into some optics. I have loaded up on XX, HV, and Super X 3" 6's. Should have enough for a lifetime.
1. Try Win Longbeards
2. Try a tighter choke
Doing 1 and 2 will likely yield the best results
Is there any reason you have not tried Winchester Longbeard XR #5's yet?
:morning:I would run a 650 or 660 with Winchester LB. 665 with Federal FCW. This should fix you up just fine. :anim_25:
try some Winchester 3" 2oz #6 XX magnums
Quote from: Longshanks on June 06, 2014, 05:42:58 PM
Quote from: Gooserbat on June 06, 2014, 03:34:46 PM
First, I would try longbeards, Second I would Try #6 shot (trust me after 60 birds with #6 I know it will kill at 40 plus a little wiggle room) Third, if you've polished it and still can see machine marks, (the machine marks are a dead ringer it's an Express apposed to a SP barrel as the final honing is skipped on express barrels as a cost saving measure) you didn't polish it enough and you might try having it professionally done. It's cheaper than you might think.
Lastly I have two 870 and neither of them will shoot #4 at all and #5 is marginal at best, but you load them with #6 and it's death and destruction all day long.
That's been the story with my 870's, they are all business with Win 6's but the 5 patterns are mediocre. Kicks .655 and Ventilator .655 best results. Win LB XR's are guaranteed patterns to 40yds but may have to look into some optics. I have loaded up on XX, HV, and Super X 3" 6's. Should have enough for a lifetime.
I had the same thing happen with me using a .660 choke, I tried a .665 choke and the spst and SM are killing machines with #5's now.
I haven't tried Longbeards yet due to no local availability, and being too cheap to pay the shipping for just one box. I'll have to pick some up to try though. Might try giving the barrel a little extra polishing, and I wondered if a tighter choke might help some. I also wondered if the patchy patterns could be from being overchoked and blowing the patterns, which I didn't think seemed likely with the Jellyhead .665.
I did pick up a box of #6 Thugs yesterday to try. I'll be curious to see how they do.
For those using #6 lead, how "dead" do they make a turkey at up to 40 yards? I hoped to use 5's to give better odds of them hitting the ground dead (or mostly dead) rather than flopping for 5 minutes.
Everything I read about using lead 5's vs 6's seemed to be split about 50/50. Heard a few bad stories about birds not being taken cleanly with 6's, but who knows what the range really was, or how good the shot really was, or if they had patterned their gun. Some people are quick to blame their equipment before themselves.
I'd say they kill about the same. Like Gooserbat said in an earlier post, your gun may love #6 shot. Don't get too focused on the 10" circle, look at the 20" circle around the 10 and know what the bird will walk into if he goes left/right. You may only have 90-100 in the 10 but you may have 50-60 more pellets to the left/right. As long as there are no gaping holes your fine with lead out to 40, with 99% of your shots being inside 30 yards.
Quote from: trkehunr93 on June 10, 2014, 01:15:50 PM
I'd say they kill about the same. Like Gooserbat said in an earlier post, your gun may love #6 shot. Don't get too focused on the 10" circle, look at the 20" circle around the 10 and know what the bird will walk into if he goes left/right. You may only have 90-100 in the 10 but you may have 50-60 more pellets to the left/right. As long as there are no gaping holes your fine with lead out to 40, with 99% of your shots being inside 30 yards.
Yup,the 10" doesn't tell the whole story. My gun that I shoot lead out of the most shoots 120+ in a 10" but 180's in a 12". Not sure what the 20" count is but it looks good.
Quote from: peashooter on June 10, 2014, 01:08:54 PM
I haven't tried Longbeards yet due to no local availability, and being too cheap to pay the shipping for just one box. I'll have to pick some up to try though. Might try giving the barrel a little extra polishing, and I wondered if a tighter choke might help some. I also wondered if the patchy patterns could be from being overchoked and blowing the patterns, which I didn't think seemed likely with the Jellyhead .665.
I did pick up a box of #6 Thugs yesterday to try. I'll be curious to see how they do.
For those using #6 lead, how "dead" do they make a turkey at up to 40 yards? I hoped to use 5's to give better odds of them hitting the ground dead (or mostly dead) rather than flopping for 5 minutes.
Everything I read about using lead 5's vs 6's seemed to be split about 50/50. Heard a few bad stories about birds not being taken cleanly with 6's, but who knows what the range really was, or how good the shot really was, or if they had patterned their gun. Some people are quick to blame their equipment before themselves.
As long as you hit what you're aiming at lead 6's will kill 100% of the time at 40yds and I've killed them a good bit farther than that
Quote from: Longshanks on June 13, 2014, 02:41:31 PM
Quote from: trkehunr93 on June 10, 2014, 01:15:50 PM
I'd say they kill about the same. Like Gooserbat said in an earlier post, your gun may love #6 shot. Don't get too focused on the 10" circle, look at the 20" circle around the 10 and know what the bird will walk into if he goes left/right. You may only have 90-100 in the 10 but you may have 50-60 more pellets to the left/right. As long as there are no gaping holes your fine with lead out to 40, with 99% of your shots being inside 30 yards.
Yup,the 10" doesn't tell the whole story. My gun that I shoot lead out of the most shoots 120+ in a 10" but 180's in a 12". Not sure what the 20" count is but it looks good.
That makes sense to me, and is the other issue I have with how this gun has patterned with what I have tried so far. Outside the 10" circle, pellets are very limited. I haven't counted 12 or 20" circles but they are pretty sparse. It's amazing how many pellets seem to fall off the face of the earth after 35 yards.
Quote from: Spurcollecta on June 15, 2014, 02:43:11 PM
Quote from: peashooter on June 10, 2014, 01:08:54 PM
I haven't tried Longbeards yet due to no local availability, and being too cheap to pay the shipping for just one box. I'll have to pick some up to try though. Might try giving the barrel a little extra polishing, and I wondered if a tighter choke might help some. I also wondered if the patchy patterns could be from being overchoked and blowing the patterns, which I didn't think seemed likely with the Jellyhead .665.
I did pick up a box of #6 Thugs yesterday to try. I'll be curious to see how they do.
For those using #6 lead, how "dead" do they make a turkey at up to 40 yards? I hoped to use 5's to give better odds of them hitting the ground dead (or mostly dead) rather than flopping for 5 minutes.
Everything I read about using lead 5's vs 6's seemed to be split about 50/50. Heard a few bad stories about birds not being taken cleanly with 6's, but who knows what the range really was, or how good the shot really was, or if they had patterned their gun. Some people are quick to blame their equipment before themselves.
As long as you hit what you're aiming at lead 6's will kill 100% of the time at 40yds and I've killed them a good bit farther than that
That's good to hear. I don't have any plans to shoot 50 yards (or I wouldn't be dealing with lead), so as long as I can go up to 40 I'd be happy. I'm curious to see the results I get with 6's. I have been too busy or it's been too windy to try them yet but hopefully they look good. If I can't find any 6's that perform well either I'll probably be talking to Sumtoy, which I'm tempted to do regardless.
Tucker