I'm certain this has been covered many times but I'm looking for opinions. The past several years I've hunted with truglo adjustable sights on my Benelli Supernova, and had no problems. However, all the hype over red dot sights has me curious. What are their primary benefits over iron sights? I've considered the Burris Fastfire III on a speedbead mount, so I could co witness the dot with the existing truglo sights. That way, my standard sights could be a backup plan in the case of a red dot failure. Does anyone have any experience with the speedbead mount? How reliable is it? Any feedback would be much appreciated.
I haven't used the speedbead, but red dots generally have a fast acquisition of your target, especially if you get a parralax free red dot sight. The one thing I would warn you is that if you have any kind of color deficiency, the red dot becomes hard to see in bright sunlight. I had to give up on red dot sights because of that.
I love my red dot scope. Just got my mossberg 500A drilled and tapped and I can now take it on and off at will.
After sighting in, I love being able to put the red dot on the neck and pull the trigger. There's no guessing or pulling off at the last second.
Cheap and effective.
Red dot all the way here. Have 3 Aimpoint 9000SC. Two eye acquisition (never loose sight of target), no parallax, if the dot is on it ...... send it. I have tried a Holographic Reflex Sight, to much reflection for me. Try a good quality tubular type red dot and you won't go back to open sights.
:newmascot:
Best thing about an open lens red dot sight is the absolute point of aim point of impact. Doesn't matter if your head is high or low, canted, shooting extreme angle to your left or right, or even holding the gun off your shoulder for some reason, if you can see the dot and the dot is on the turkey you will hit the turkey. Doesn't matter if the dot is centered in the glass lens or up in a corner of the lens, if the dot is on the turkey the gun is aimed at the turkey.
With barrel sights you have to line up the front sight with the back sight with the front sight on the turkey. With the red dot just put the dot on the turkey. If you place the sight as close to your eye and shoot with both eyes open and concentrate on your target, an interesting optical illusion takes place. The thin frame around the lens blurs out and the dot seems to be floating in the air out there with the target. This makes fast target acquisition possible, faster than lining up multiple sight points. This is somewhat impeded if you use a guard around the sight. Unless you absolutely have to I recommend using the sight without a guard to minimize the frame area around the lens.
It is really interesting that once you get the hang of shooting this way, you can actually cover up the front side of the glass where you can't see thru it and still shoot accurately. Your left eye sees the target, the right eye sees the dot and your brain puts the two together and you see the dot on the target and can shoot accurately. Just for fun try it some time. Put a piece of painters tape in front of the glass and shoot with both eyes open focused on the target. It really is accurate. Should mud get on the front of your lens, you could still shoot a turkey!
You get a better view down range with an open red dot sight. When you are hunkered down lining up barrel sights, the barrel is blocking the birds body, the sight body itself is blocking some of the left and right view, and your probably squinting an eye which limits your peripheral vision. What if another better bird is coming in from the side or a hen moves into your aiming direction? With an open lens red dot shooting with both eyes open, you see everything down range and to the sides with a red dot imposed in the view. I actually prefer to mount the sight up on a picatinny rail than down low on the barrel to enhance the ability to see down range better.
The only real disadvantage of one is the possibility of battery or electronic failure. Putting a fresh name brand battery in before every season minimizes this problem. They are very efficient and a battery should easily last a season.
I have heard that turkeys can see the amber color of the front lens is this true? I have a sunshade on mine but it is hard to see in early light.
X2 what Skeeter and Frank said. It is sound advice!! I am also an Aimpoint fan. The batteries last years not days. When the dot is on the birds neck, it is over. Period...Both my rigs have Aimpoints and I have one on a target .22. Pricey, but worth the money. IMHO. There are other good red dots out there, so you can shop around. Do your home work and don't settle for a $39.95 jobber that you bought off of eBay. Price does matter. Don't let the scope be the weak link in the equation.
As far as the reflection spooking birds.. It's never happened to me and I don't think it's as big a problem as some would lead you to believe. Generally if they are that close, they are flopping..Do not let that scare you from buying one.
The biggest advantage of a red dot is that you can adjust your POA to your POI. This is crucial. Most rigs do not shoot where aimed. I guess that some do, but none of mine ever did. And POI, generally changes when you change shell types.
Good luck with your decision..
Mike
If Mr. Tom can see my red sight...it's too late. Sayonara.
Gman
Everything Skeeter said. I've hunted with a bead, a red dot scope, and now a reflex sight. Reflex sights are the way to go in my opinion.
I've had a $35 BSA on my 870 Super Mag for 10 years and love it. I change the battery every year and haven't had an issue yet. I don't miss since I put it on either.
Wow, lots of great advice. Thanks guys, its much appreciated. I already own one aimpoint red dot, but am leaning toward the Burris for a turkey hunting optic. Mainly because I would prefer the quicker target acquisition of the open lense sight rather than the tunnel vision effect of a tubular sight. All of you have given me a lot to think about. Thanks again.
Quote from: West Augusta on February 04, 2014, 01:40:41 PM
I've had a $35 BSA on my 870 Super Mag for 10 years and love it. I change the battery every year and haven't had an issue yet. I don't miss since I put it on either.
There is an exception to every rule. All I'm saying is you generally get what you pay for. There is a reason why they sell for $35. And three or four middle men made money off of that $35.
I have 2 Bushnell trophys 1X28. I absolutely love it! Wherever that little red dot is pointed that's where the pattern goes. It's not perfect though. I'll say this here. Sometimes a bird in a field distance is tough to judge. 40 yards or 45 yards ? Why hasn't someone came out with a red dot with a built-in rangefinder ? They build everything else for a turkey hunter. Dead silence, squelin hen why not something really helpful.
I went with a SpeedBead with FFII a few years ago for the same reason. I wanted to still be able to see my beads just in case the sight malfunctioned. I really like this optic and have total confidence in it!
I will be the contrarian. I put a steady grip and an FF 3 with a speed bead on my M2 last year and will probably sell the steady grip and the FF 3 - found them to be detrimental.
The steady grip would not allow me to use a canting shim with the speed bead so my poi was off. I adjusted that to poa with the FF3 at 40 yards. Apparently in my case the difference at 40 yards was substantial enough that at 10 - 15 yards I needed to compensate for that difference.
Had a single bird that was eyeballing my hen at 10 yards. Put the dot on his noggin and air balled him. For the follow up shots my eye went automatically to the bead and I air balled those too.
Second instance had a monster bird hanging at 40 looking at the hen and jake decoy. Several of his traveling companions came right in and were at 15 yards. I took the long bird and smoked him, went to pick up a second bird closer in and flagged him twice - once I think because he was too close and I didn't adjust and the second because my eye went to the bead automatically when he started moving and that alignment was off due to the speed bead and no shim.
I would never have missed either of those shots with my regular stock and shim and with just the bead.
Again. Every rule has the exception. I would believe that you would be in the minority.
Quote from: spaightlabs on February 05, 2014, 05:25:35 AM
The steady grip would not allow me to use a canting shim with the speed bead so my poi was off. I adjusted that to poa with the FF3 at 40 yards. Apparently in my case the difference at 40 yards was substantial enough that at 10 - 15 yards I needed to compensate for that difference.
I would never have missed either of those shots with my regular stock and shim and with just the bead.
I guess I can understand this scenario, but barely. If the gun was dead nuts at 40 with the FFlll and not close at 10, why would your gun, with a bead, be dead nuts at 40 and also dead nuts at 10?
Quote from: Skeeterbait on February 04, 2014, 11:53:04 AM
Best thing about an open lens red dot sight is the absolute point of aim point of impact. Doesn't matter if your head is high or low, canted, shooting extreme angle to your left or right, or even holding the gun off your shoulder for some reason, if you can see the dot and the dot is on the turkey you will hit the turkey. Doesn't matter if the dot is centered in the glass lens or up in a corner of the lens, if the dot is on the turkey the gun is aimed at the turkey.
With barrel sights you have to line up the front sight with the back sight with the front sight on the turkey. With the red dot just put the dot on the turkey. If you place the sight as close to your eye and shoot with both eyes open and concentrate on your target, an interesting optical illusion takes place. The thin frame around the lens blurs out and the dot seems to be floating in the air out there with the target. This makes fast target acquisition possible, faster than lining up multiple sight points. This is somewhat impeded if you use a guard around the sight. Unless you absolutely have to I recommend using the sight without a guard to minimize the frame area around the lens.
It is really interesting that once you get the hang of shooting this way, you can actually cover up the front side of the glass where you can't see thru it and still shoot accurately. Your left eye sees the target, the right eye sees the dot and your brain puts the two together and you see the dot on the target and can shoot accurately. Just for fun try it some time. Put a piece of painters tape in front of the glass and shoot with both eyes open focused on the target. It really is accurate. Should mud get on the front of your lens, you could still shoot a turkey!
You get a better view down range with an open red dot sight. When you are hunkered down lining up barrel sights, the barrel is blocking the birds body, the sight body itself is blocking some of the left and right view, and your probably squinting an eye which limits your peripheral vision. What if another better bird is coming in from the side or a hen moves into your aiming direction? With an open lens red dot shooting with both eyes open, you see everything down range and to the sides with a red dot imposed in the view. I actually prefer to mount the sight up on a picatinny rail than down low on the barrel to enhance the ability to see down range better.
The only real disadvantage of one is the possibility of battery or electronic failure. Putting a fresh name brand battery in before every season minimizes this problem. They are very efficient and a battery should easily last a season.
Well stated all bases covered. 100% in agreement. I have them mounted on my ML pistol and 460XVR for deer.
Can someone post a picture of the speedbeard and the Fastfire 2 on their gun?
Also what about having to turn on the sight? Have you spooked any turkeys doing this? How long is your sight usually on before the bird comes in?
Having to turn the sight on is what I am most leery about when it come to switching to the red dot. Any advice would be great!
Turn it on when you leave the truck and turn it off when you get back to the truck. A battery will last for hundreds of hours. Just put a fresh battery in it at the beginning of each season.
Well, I've been convinced. Last night I ordered a Burris FF3 with a speed bead mount. Very curious to see what makes these sights so popular. Here's another question though- how well does a red dot perform on moving targets? Specifically a running or flying turkey. Not that I make a habit of taking such risky shots, but sometimes you find yourself in odd situations in the turkey woods.
Quote from: Skeeterbait on February 05, 2014, 11:39:58 AM
Turn it on when you leave the truck and turn it off when you get back to the truck. A battery will last for hundreds of hours. Just put a fresh battery in it at the beginning of each season.
I have yet to change the battery in any of my Aimpoints. Turn it on when I leave the truck and turn it off when I get back. Now I do remove the battery when I'm not using it, turn it around to store. There is a foam pad inside and all adjustments are double "O" ring sealed. No word of a lie here, I have had the same battery in my 460XVR for 5 years! By the way I do have a spare. These are by no means those cheap "quarter size" typically found in so many, low coat red dots. Check out the AimPoint Webb, the life expectancy of a battery is phenomenal. :camohat: I don't have a red dot on my loooooong range Weatherby 300 WSM, a Leupold 4.5 x 14 x 50 with illumination, love the red dot. Once you have tried a good one you will never go back. I have set up a new TK2000 ML SG (trying this season) with a 9000SC. The TK came equipped with Williams sights, very nice, funny thing I set the Aimpoint 0 at 35 yards and can still see the glow sights thru the optics. They are visible in the lower frame no bother at all. Those are dialed in at 15 yards for a close shot. Not that I believe I'll need them, just place the red dot on his neck at close range and on his head at distance. Didn't plan it, just worked out great. Going to verify this weekend with various loads, twink and double check. As AMX states "don't leave home without it". :cowboy:
Quote from: turkeykiller22 on February 05, 2014, 11:30:18 AM
Can someone post a picture of the speedbeard and the Fastfire 2 on their gun?
Also what about having to turn on the sight? Have you spooked any turkeys doing this? How long is your sight usually on before the bird comes in?
Having to turn the sight on is what I am most leery about when it come to switching to the red dot. Any advice would be great!
FF3 on speedbead mount SBE2
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/04/vupuga7u.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/04/heguquje.jpg)
Quote from: Skeeterbait on February 05, 2014, 11:39:58 AM
Turn it on when you leave the truck and turn it off when you get back to the truck. A battery will last for hundreds of hours. Just put a fresh battery in it at the beginning of each season.
Different retailers list the battery life for the FF3 at either 10,000 or 20,000 hours. 10,000 hours works out to almost 14 months of continuous 24/7 operation.
Quote from: Hognutz on February 05, 2014, 09:49:13 AM
Quote from: spaightlabs on February 05, 2014, 05:25:35 AM
The steady grip would not allow me to use a canting shim with the speed bead so my poi was off. I adjusted that to poa with the FF3 at 40 yards. Apparently in my case the difference at 40 yards was substantial enough that at 10 - 15 yards I needed to compensate for that difference.
I would never have missed either of those shots with my regular stock and shim and with just the bead.
I guess I can understand this scenario, but barely. If the gun was dead nuts at 40 with the FFlll and not close at 10, why would your gun, with a bead, be dead nuts at 40 and also dead nuts at 10?
I will have to try the SteadyGrip with no shim at 40 on paper to see what the pattern shift is. All I can think of is that there isn't much or any margin of error at 10 to 15 yards. Pattern can't be much bigger than a roll of silver dollars so if off by a few inches at 10 that's a clean miss?
I guess the test needs to be to zero it at 40 and the take a head shot at 10 to see where it hits. Will report back at the end of March...
I have an Aimpoint 9000SC red dot scope on both my Mossberg 835 and Benelli SBE 2. Put the dot on your target and bang. 50,000 hrs battery life and they withstand the heaviest recoil.
Quote from: beagler on February 05, 2014, 07:56:19 PM
I have an Aimpoint 9000SC red dot scope on both my Mossberg 835 and Benelli SBE 2. Put the dot on your target and bang. 50,000 hrs battery life and they withstand the heaviest recoil.
^^^^^
This.. X2..
Quote from: Frank G on February 05, 2014, 02:51:36 PM
Quote from: Skeeterbait on February 05, 2014, 11:39:58 AM
Turn it on when you leave the truck and turn it off when you get back to the truck. A battery will last for hundreds of hours. Just put a fresh battery in it at the beginning of each season.
No word of a lie here, I have had the same battery in my 460XVR for 5 years!
A battery is a heck of a lot cheaper than a new scope. I would take the battery out in the off season, and go with a brand new battery the next season. But hey, that's just me. I've had a few electronic items ruined by batteries going bad and leaking acid into them.
My experience indicates that if you want to install a sight for turkey hunting, a "dot" type sight is your best alternative, especially since red, green and blue dots were introduced.
As we age, green and blue dots become much more visible and even for younger shooters the blue dot is much quicker to recognize and pick up on than the other colors.
I put a multi-reticle, multi-color dot sight on one of my guns this past turke season and was frankly amazed at how much help it was.
Thanks,
Clark
Which moa, 2or 4 ?
If you have really good young eyes then you can use the 2moa. But it is really meant for precision rifle and pistol shooting. A 4moa for a shotgun is plenty small enough and easier to pick up, especially with older eyes.
I use 2moa on all of mine, but that's just me. A 4 would be OK if your just going to use it on your "T" buster. If you plan on moving it to a rifle/big bore handgun for deer, would stay with a 2 moa when your working out to the 60 + yard range. :camohat:
A 4MOA will cover a 4" round at 100 yards. A 2MOA will cover a 2" round at 100yards. At 50 yards, it is half of that. At 25 yards, it's half again. So a MOA dot will cover a 1" spot at 25 yards. This makes a 4MOA dot seem like the one I would, and do, use if given the option.