I realize this isn't easy to answer, but how long might you stay in a spot if you havent seen/heard anything?
I am setting up near a roosting tree and I think it's a decent area.. but if I haven't heard or seen anything after 6 hours, I may move on
Good god, dude.....
I scout to have a thorough understanding of where to set-up when birds are in different locations.
I do not go blindly up to a roost tree and "hope" they are there. I roost them the night before or wait until the birds begin to gobble to decide where and how to hunt them when in particular locations. I'll also develop plans that disregard roost hunting because I know where they prefer to go mid-morning or right after flydown.
You cannot hunt turkeys with an inflexible plan as you suggested in your post. It's a rapidly changing and dynamic game that is predicated upon real-time information.
I'd give up turkey hunting if I was going to sit somewhere for 6 hours. Invest that time towards scouting.
I'd recommend reading Michael Hanback's Spring Fever or books by Lovett Williams to get a more accurate perspective on how to develop strategies based on the birds' habits and behaviors at different times of the day.
I like to set up on a known roost in the morning. From there, I will sit the first hour and a half to two hours. From there I start ridge walking and calling. I will sit down and call from 30-45 minutes before getting up. Remember everytime you call a bird may hear it so don't just call and walk away. After my last call, I will wait 10-15 minutes. So a total of 45-60 per spot that I have scouted and seen birds and looks like a good spot to call one. The last two hunts the birds came in a lot slower than normal so let them decide how long to stay.
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on April 23, 2012, 06:22:35 PM
Good god, dude.....
I scout to have a thorough understanding of where to set-up when birds are in different locations.
I do not go blindly up to a roost tree and "hope" they are there. I roost them the night before or wait until the birds begin to gobble to decide where and how to hunt them when in particular locations. I'll also develop plans that disregard roost hunting because I know where they prefer to go mid-morning or right after flydown.
You cannot hunt turkeys with an inflexible plan as you suggested in your post. It's a rapidly changing and dynamic game that is predicated upon real-time information.
I'd give up turkey hunting if I was going to sit somewhere for 6 hours. Invest that time towards scouting.
I'd recommend reading Michael Hanback's Spring Fever or books by Lovett Williams to get a more accurate perspective on how to develop strategies based on the birds' habits and behaviors at different times of the day.
i guess i really suck at this!
Quote from: Siwash on April 23, 2012, 06:41:30 PM
i guess i really suck at this!
I wouldn't say that. You obviously have two traits of a good turkey hunter, patience and curiosity. You just need to keep asking questions and also learn by trial and error.
The time I spend in one spot probably averages no more than an hour. I'm on the move most of the time, but at a snails pace. I look and listened a lot more than I call. If I have a positive response from a gobbler and I'm in the spot I think I can kill him, I'll stay put until he lets me know he has moved on or I have conviced myself he has temporaily lost interest.
Last year I shot a jake that I only noticed as I was leaving to go home! I purposely went by the spot to check because I new it was a good eve spot. Got him and left for home happy.. I am not adverse to "running n gunning" its just that some of you say to be patient and stay put.. i guess several hours is overkill.. i'll keep it to 2 hours
thanks
i guess i really suck at this!
[/quote]
You're curious and clearly looking to learn but posting individual, hypothetical scenarios online probably isn't the best way to become a well-rounded turkey killer.
Get some literature that starts by explaining turkey behavior, turkey vocalizations, the spring breeding cycle and then begins to explain effective turkey hunting tactics for flydown, midmorning, afternoon and evening hunting.
This way you will have a more thorough understanding of the birds and how to hunt them. You can then apply these ideas and tactics within your specific area and application.
Best of luck to you!
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on April 23, 2012, 06:22:35 PM
I'd recommend reading Michael Hanback's Spring Fever or books by Lovett Williams to get a more accurate perspective on how to develop strategies based on the birds' habits and behaviors at different times of the day.
I would be interested in checking out those books as well..Being a bowhunter and not as mobile and versatile as a shotgunner, I think these books would help me a ton-
Any suggestions as to which books by Lovett Williams specifically? And if you were only going to read one, which would you prefer - Williams' or Hanback's?
Thanks
If Im in one spot for 6hrs while turkey hunting Im sleeping.lol. deer hunting different story. Back to the question I will give it a few hours blind calling as long as I know turkeys are using the area.
Quote from: cornfedkiller on April 23, 2012, 08:15:56 PM
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on April 23, 2012, 06:22:35 PM
I'd recommend reading Michael Hanback's Spring Fever or books by Lovett Williams to get a more accurate perspective on how to develop strategies based on the birds' habits and behaviors at different times of the day.
I would be interested in checking out those books as well..Being a bowhunter and not as mobile and versatile as a shotgunner, I think these books would help me a ton-
Any suggestions as to which books by Lovett Williams specifically? And if you were only going to read one, which would you prefer - Williams' or Hanback's?
Thanks
Cornfed,
I can't cite anything specific compilations by Lovett Williams because I often find pieces of his literature in Turkey and Turkey Hunting or online.
I would highly recommend Hanback's book and Brian Lovett's Hunting Pressured Turkeys as comprehensive, all inclusive publications on turkeys, relevant strategies and tactics. As with any literature, there is plenty of fluff within the pages of each but the perspectives and fundamental thought processes discussed in each are highly valuable. I'd also recommend annotating them as you read.
Best of luck.
Cheers!
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on April 23, 2012, 11:02:45 PM
Quote from: cornfedkiller on April 23, 2012, 08:15:56 PM
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on April 23, 2012, 06:22:35 PM
I'd recommend reading Michael Hanback's Spring Fever or books by Lovett Williams to get a more accurate perspective on how to develop strategies based on the birds' habits and behaviors at different times of the day.
I would be interested in checking out those books as well..Being a bowhunter and not as mobile and versatile as a shotgunner, I think these books would help me a ton-
Any suggestions as to which books by Lovett Williams specifically? And if you were only going to read one, which would you prefer - Williams' or Hanback's?
Thanks
Cornfed,
I can't cite anything specific compilations by Lovett Williams because I often find pieces of his literature in Turkey and Turkey Hunting or online.
I would highly recommend Hanback's book and Brian Lovett's Hunting Pressured Turkeys as comprehensive, all inclusive publications on turkeys, relevant strategies and tactics. As with any literature, there is plenty of fluff within the pages of each but the perspectives and fundamental thought processes discussed in each are highly valuable. I'd also recommend annotating them as you read.
Best of luck.
Cheers!
Sweet thanks! I have Brian Lovett's Hunting Tough Turkeys book, and its a pretty decent read, but I am always looking for more information. I will check out Hanback's book..
Thanks again for the help.
Bigdog,
I think those who responded to His question were spot on in what they said, I think we as myself ask questions about what to do when in reality they can not answer it fully. I think they gave him very Truthfull answer to his question, and Iam sure he will learn from it as well. Were not here to belittle someone and What I read was there Honest answer to his question. Matter of fact I learned something by reading this post, Iam getting that Book (Michael Hanback's Spring Fever).
Hoot
I do not understand the concept of roost trees. I do not believe I have ever seen a turkey roost in the same tree two days in a row.. I have seen trees with lots of poop under them like a turkey has used them multiple times. The turkeys I hunt might roost in one place today and he might be 200 or 300 yards away. I have actually roosted turkeys before and went back the next morning an hour before daylight to set up. When it got daylight and the turkey gobbled he would be in a different tree. So I know they have to move in the middle of the night. I also do not understand where folks are saying that they get 50 to 75 yards from a gobbler in the tree. The turkeys I hunt would be gone 9 times out of 10 or would never gobble in the first place. If they hear something walking then they must assume it is another turkey. That's my theory because they will hardly say anything and they will stand in the tree later if you sneak in too close. I generally will not get closer than 100 yards and that is when I have great cover and a road bed where I can walk very quietly. If it is early in the year with no leaves on the tree and there is no road then I will not try to get that close. I have nephews that try and slip right up under the tree with gobblers. They scare way more of them than they kill. I have always used as a rulle of thumb that if you scare him out of the tree that your hunt is pretty much over so don't push it. Better to always be safe than sorry. As for how long before you move. I wouldn't sit there for 6 hours unless he was gobbling or i could see him,even on the hard pressured public land turkeys. I will usually call and then get up and move a little piece but still close enough to see or hear back to where I just called. That way if a gobbler comes up there looking for you that you can at least hear him walking because lots of times he will not be gobbling.
Quote from: bigdog061 on April 24, 2012, 03:13:17 AM
Wow, lets throw stones at this guy for asking a legit question? How many birds have you snuffed Vaturkstomper? You can't learn it all from a book. There is hundreds of years experience on this board! I been hunting the spring for 28 years and I have a million questions to ask! Maybe I am super stupid!
Now for the question from dumb ole me! Every morning is different, depends if this is public or private land, how many more birds are available, what kinda cover is around. Bird might be there around 9-10 am
I would sit for hours and never killed a bird like that, I will now sit for maybe 1-2 hours then take off. Cuz taught me 2 run and gun. works good when birds are talking. If they go away, I chase them. Be very careful on public land!
Paul
Just one or two ;)
I have been hunting turkeys for about 35 years and come from about 4 or 5 generations of turkey hunters that passed as much of thir turkey knowledge down as they could and I still feel jacked up and stupid. I don't think you can ever learn enough about these things to keep you from feeling like an idiot from time to time. You are going to always make mistakes and realize you have spent years doing something that isn't the smartest. Just stay after them.
Siwash... your patience is a good thing. If you are able to sit in one spot for 6 hours or so you're going to be successful. It just may be that now you're going to need to learn more about turkey behavior itself so you can pick the right spot to sit and the right duration.
I am by no means an expert but what I've noticed is that turkeys are going to fly down from their roosting spots and have somewhat of a pattern the rest of the day, until they return to the roost. If you choose to sit next to a roosting spot you're likely banking on being able to call a bird in after fly down or catch one coming back to roost. It's not to say that they won't mill around the roosting site for a while in the morning or wander by it at various time throughout the day but I'm guessing your scouting is going to tell you that there's a couple hour window in the morning and in the night that the spot near the roost might be successful.
The fun starts when trying to figure out where to sit after they move away from the roosting site. I've had some opportunity the past few years to just kind of sit watch a very large expanse of open field with woods around it and I've noticed some patterns over time as to entry and exit into the field and general movement. There is definitely a spot on that field where I'd have no problem sitting all day because it's a pinch point of sorts for travel, has a small waterway near it, is shaded at various points, and provides a great vantage point for a large area (I'm thinking along the lines of being able to see birds and calling them). Unfortunately I don't have permission to sit in that spot :( But if I did, it would be a great all day, or long duration spot.
On the flip side, the spot I've killed birds from the past two years is one a fence line that is very near a roosting spot.It's been a very successful evening hunt spot but past observation has told me that I probably don't need to be there much earlier than 3 hours before dark as they are likely going to mill around, feed, and strut in the larger field and not get close to the edges until they head to bed.
There are lots of "what if's" to your question but your answer is really going to come down to learning what the birds do and making a decision based on that.
My first piece of advice would be to stop pre-determining how long you are going to sit in one spot and let the birds dictate where, when and how long to choose a random spot to set up and blind call.
I'm other words, it's not as simple as just saying " I'm going to sit a spot for 6 hours" or "if that's too long, I'll hunt it for two hours".
If the party is not happening where I'm at, I'm usually EASING along trying to find where birds are...if I come to a likely spot with good fresh sign or an area that I've scouted and feel good about, I might hang around and call for half an hour- 45 min and then continue easing along.
Run and gun can work and I'll eve do it from time to time in certain situations but only when time constraints or something else dictates it's the best course. The biggest reason I don't do it all the time is cause I don't like to risk bumping birds and would rather take my time and slow it down. If you can move and move quietly (and keep an eye out for birds while you do it) moving is not a bad thing and can, in alot of cases, help increase your skill and odds of success.
There's a number of ways to skin a cat and the more flexible/adaptable you can learn to be, the better turkey killer you'll be.
I am relatively confident about the patterns of these birds... I am thinking several hours within the same woodlot but moving from time to time.. i think u need to pre-dertmine to some extent...
i got my bird last year and I am not saying i'm some pro, but that bird was killed b/c i put in my time scouting... i new it would be there late PM and it was when I snuck up to him.
I think the learning never stops
cheers and good luck
Quote from: Siwash on April 24, 2012, 07:28:52 PM
I am relatively confident about the patterns of these birds... I am thinking several hours within the same woodlot but moving from time to time.. i think u need to pre-dertmine to some extent...
i got my bird last year and I am not saying i'm some pro, but that bird was killed b/c i put in my time scouting... i new it would be there late PM and it was when I snuck up to him.
I think the learning never stops
cheers and good luck
You do need to scout and know the property, and the birds patterns, no doubt.
When i'm talking about "pre-determined"- I'm talking about locking in on a specific plan or specific spot, to the extent that you start to miss out on opportunities to kill birds because you decided how you THOUGHT the hunt was going to play out and wouldnt adjust your plan, when you probably should have.
Redleg06's advice in action.I too thought I had a gobbler patterned.I knew where he was roosting,step up on him ,when he flew down he went away from me.hopped a fence crossed a pasture to the woods on the other side.Set up to ambush on my side of the fence.He responded to calls the next morning only to cross that fence up above me out of range.Next morning moved up closer to cut him off.He only moved up his crossing spot,jumped the fence crossed a 250 yard pasture,jumped the fence on the other side and gobbled until 10:30 that day.Went this morning with my son set up so no way he could cross the fence without one of us getting a shot .Heard two gobblers on the roost, when they flew down heard them no more.Sat for 2 hrs before decided to work our way back along wood line and call every so often.Walking a tractor road back to an old homeplace where we had parked, my son called,gobbler responded no more than 75 yds away in a field,just enough time to conceal ourselves,few more yelps and clucks and I shot him at 30 yds.Sometimes things never work out as planned.My son tells me he will do the calling,all I have to do is shoot.Can't argue with that!Great to share that hunt with my son!
Quote from: MG150 on April 25, 2012, 10:56:39 PM
Redleg06's advice in action.I too thought I had a gobbler patterned.I knew where he was roosting,step up on him ,when he flew down he went away from me.hopped a fence crossed a pasture to the woods on the other side.Set up to ambush on my side of the fence.He responded to calls the next morning only to cross that fence up above me out of range.Next morning moved up closer to cut him off.He only moved up his crossing spot,jumped the fence crossed a 250 yard pasture,jumped the fence on the other side and gobbled until 10:30 that day.Went this morning with my son set up so no way he could cross the fence without one of us getting a shot .Heard two gobblers on the roost, when they flew down heard them no more.Sat for 2 hrs before decided to work our way back along wood line and call every so often.Walking a tractor road back to an old homeplace where we had parked, my son called,gobbler responded no more than 75 yds away in a field,just enough time to conceal ourselves,few more yelps and clucks and I shot him at 30 yds.Sometimes things never work out as planned.My son tells me he will do the calling,all I have to do is shoot.Can't argue with that!Great to share that hunt with my son!
Geez, these buggers are so damn unpredicatble.. a few posts up everyone and his mother was telling me they won't cross barriers like the one you described.. which i find hard to believe
Geez, these buggers are so damn unpredicatble..
[/quote]
That might be the best thing to remember when hunting turkeys :z-dizzy:
:gobble:
You might want to try do a shock gobble (owl hoot) on them or a tree yelp, to see if there is a turkey around. If not, I would do a fly down cackle to bring in anything around. If I still don't hear any thing, I would do a series of loud yelps to see where the toms are and move toward them and set up!
Quote from: Siwash on April 26, 2012, 10:38:20 PM
Geez, these buggers are so damn unpredicatble.. a few posts up everyone and his mother was telling me they won't cross barriers like the one you described.. which i find hard to believe
You gotta stop taking everything so literally....there are no absolutes with wild turkey or any other wild animals for that matter.
I've seen times that they will hang up at a barb wire fence when they could easily fly over or cross under (and probably have done just that, a thousand times earlier in the year) and i've seen times when they were so hot that they flew large creeks and rivers.
People are giving you advice about barriers because, generally speaking, the best thing to do is eliminate as many POTENTIAL obstacles, between you and the bird because the reality is, you have NO IDEA what will or wont hold him up on that particular day, under those particular circumstances.
No one ever said they absolutely wouldnt fly a creek, cross a brush patch, cross a fence etc.... what we are saying is that you have to do the little things, like making it as easy as possible for the turkey to get to you, that get you in the best position to kill a turkey on any given day.
I may spend a couple hours, but that's it! No gobbling is no fun. :gobble:
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on April 23, 2012, 06:22:35 PM
Good god, dude..... LOL LOL :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny:
I love that!
I can watch grass grow, but I can't set for 6hr. unless I am in a treestand with a bow. Stay about an hr. and move on. Walk and call, walk and call. Do be ready to set up quick when you do this. Also late in the year I cluck alot with soft yelps. Once in a while I will gobble. I love to cut but back off on loud calling the latter it gets in the year.
:OGturkeyhead: :OGturkeyhead:
I agree with the majority of opinions here. Just about every time you think you know something about turkeys for sure they go ahead and do something that makes you realize otherwise. I will give credit to siwash for patience though. There have been many times where if I had the patience to sit around for that long I would have killed nice birds. This year I was hunting a property that was a perfect funnel between two other properties that the birds loved. So sitting wasn't a bad thing here, birds funneled through this small field all day long and with enough patience you were bound to get ones attention eventually. I actually left there after sitting for 4 hours in the morning and only getting some toms hung up at about 150 yard. Later I came back to find that there were birds right where I had been sitting 4 hours earlier.
Quote from: ttcustomcalls on May 16, 2012, 09:36:28 AM
... I actually left there after sitting for 4 hours in the morning and only getting some toms hung up at about 150 yard. Later I came back to find that there were birds right where I had been sitting 4 hours earlier.
BINGO!!! That happens to me all the time. In fact, it took me nearly five hours from the time I first struck a tom one morning this year until the time I killed him. During that time, I got up and only moved once...about 100 yards. The layout of the farm didn't allow me to move around much without the possibility of being spotted, so I stayed planted in my gobbler lounger. I was so glad that he finally showed up, because I had to take a leak real bad. :D