This topic has been beaten like my Clemson Tigers in the Orange bowl, but I felt like giving my opinion on the matter. I am not going to argue that 7's will not get it done at 40+ yards, because frankly, I don't feel like seeing those pics of the turkey necks anymore. To be honest, I couldn't care less if they do or not, I am not willing to trust my hunt to them.
Now, the way I measure things in life is consistency. From NFL quarterbacks to zip loc bags to turkey shells, consistency is the best measure. The fact that there are a ton of topics on this board solely dedicated to finding specific lot numbers, and that a hevi shot pro staffer, himself, admitted to searching for specific lot numbers, is overwhelming proof that these shells are inconsistent. In a sport where a good season and a bad season can come down to 2-3 specific shells, I want to KNOW what is coming out of my barrell. Period. 300 pellets in a circle at 40 yards is compelling, but how big and what density are those pellets. We all know that you can shoot dove loads at 25-30 yards, and I'm sure the 7's are great there.
I am sticking with Nitro mega combos, TSS handloads, and Win XR 6's. I hunt too hard to be unsure about the shot.
Yep well said
:agreed:
Problem is that too many are into the numbers game. No matter how small the hole is. Some of my pellets don't go through the cardboard backing on target but others say they will go through the breast of a bird at 40 yards. Makes you wonder.
OH NO NOT AGAIN ! Somebody please delete this . :lol: :TooFunny:
I ain't shooting them with 7's either. I had rather have 80-100 heavy #5's than 300 heavy #7's myself. I did shoot a couple with the Magnum Blend last year and they worked fine but the jury is still out as far as I am concerned. It takes more of a sample than two to convince me they work well. They look like they have a fair number of 6's and 5's in the pattern too.
I like consistency and I stick with what works. So I'm not gonna worry about what lot numbers work the best, not gonna spend a weeks wages trying to get 300 pellets in 10 @ 40. Im going to to what I always do, call them close and kill them DEAD, and to do that I'll be using lead. :OGturkeyhead:
can anyone remember when all we had to shoot was a 2 3/4 shell to kill a turkey with.it may just be me ,but i believe we are starting to worry to much about 40 yards and not enough about really getting a turkey into true shotgun range,I am not putting anything or anyone down for how they hunt or what they hunt with,just saying if we really get down to it a good 30 yard gun is all we need,I my self have gotten to far into this 40 yard dense pattern penetrating him haw.I do agree that a #7 is a little on the edge no matter what there test show
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p249/elmoore_photos/behindsofa.gif)
I'm very happy to see that I'm not the only one that feels this way.
Great Post
Al
Swamprunner I couldn't have said it better myself!!!
You know, as I think back on some of the birds I've killed, seems like half the time things didn't even begin to get interesting until they were inside of 40. I would have missed out on some of my most exciting, memorable hunts if I would have pulled the trigger at 50. Its a whole nother level of excitement when you shoot ones head O-F-F off!
Well again use what you like. The rest of us that use them will keep on shooting them because we choose to just like you choose to shoot what you like. No sense in beating a drum over the Hevi-13 #7's. They work just as good as the 6's in my opinion and maybe even better. But I'm not going to try and tell you to switch.
Quote from: jfair on March 05, 2012, 06:36:29 PM
:agreed:
Problem is that too many are into the numbers game. No matter how small the hole is. Some of my pellets don't go through the cardboard backing on target but others say they will go through the breast of a bird at 40 yards. Makes you wonder.
Indeed! I gotta find some better cardboard. :TooFunny:
find some better cardboard :TooFunny: .......try shoot-um in a soup can!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohu8cdXFR-k
Well then. I guess i better put the guts and feathers back on the last 20 I killed with the Hevi 13 Pixie Dust!
:TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny:
Brian,
Don't you know the only shot that will go through that can is Win Xtended Range #6 loads. They are the best! They hit like a train. :lol:
It's funny how so many guys are shocked by the inconsistency in shotshells from lot to lot. There is a reason, it's called mass production. It will vary due to subtle differences in powders, primers, wads, and yes the actual shot. Anyone that is a rifle shooter knows this, and that's why WE reload rifle ammo. We buy bulk brass, bullets, powder, and primers all from the same lot #s to ensure consitent performance.
P.S. I recently spoke with Rob Roberts at Gobbler Guns. He said he has seen changes in the Federal heavyweight, Win. Xtended Range, and Hevi 13.
So, Lot #s do matter to me.
Quote from: K9Doc on March 05, 2012, 10:11:48 PM
It's funny how so many guys are shocked by the inconsistency in shotshells from lot to lot. There is a reason, it's called mass production. It will vary due to subtle differences in powders, primers, wads, and yes the actual shot. Anyone that is a rifle shooter knows this, and that's why WE reload rifle ammo. We buy bulk brass, bullets, powder, and primers all from the same lot #s to ensure consitent performance.
P.S. I recently spoke with Rob Roberts at Gobbler Guns. He said he has seen changes in the Federal heavyweight, Win. Xtended Range, and Hevi 13.
So, Lot #s do matter to me.
That is so true. Having owned a high dollar 22 rimfire benchrest gun when you found a lot # that shot like these, you stacked up on that lot #. These both you could cover the entire 5 shot group with a Bic ink pen.
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/546/medium/DSCF0244_Small_.jpg)
Nice. That's exactly my point. I just opened a new box of Win. Extened Range and Federal Heavywt. I have specific chokes for each gun and each load. Long story short, the temp. was the same and barrels clean, but numbers were down by 25 to 50 in each load. Its not just a Hevi 13 problem. Its just more recognized, because more of us on Old gobbler shoot 'em.
:TrainWreck1:
:TrainWreck1:
This is gona be a long one . Maybe 10 pages . :TooFunny:
I quit worrying about the "numbers game" a long time ago,as long as I can get a decent hunting pattern,that's all I need
It all boils down to the fact that everyone should look at patterns, numbers, and shell performance in reverse. Instead of wondering IF they are 100% effective at such-and-such range, you simply confine your shots to a distance which gives 100% reliability with YOUR SHOTGUN. It is really pretty simple, and the way all ethical hunters did it way back when lead was all we had. My first couple of turkey guns were deadly up to 30 yards, marginal at 35, and it would have been a crap shoot at 40. I let birds walk at distances I now would not hesitate to shoot, because I know with 100% certainty that at 40 yards, a bird is dead, if I do my part and shoot the way I should with the HTL loads I now use.
In other words, lot numbers, #7's vs #6's, are only important if you are pushing the envelope. There is nothing wrong with playing with chokes and shells to see their maximum effectiveness, but any prudent hunter is going to back off at least 5 yards from what he considers the distance at which the patterns become marginal, simply because in field conditions, things aren't always going to be like they are on the patterning range. Just too many variables exist: wind, vegetation, movement of the turkey, and, lets not forget shooter error.
Well said Neill_Prater!
only reason i am shooting 6 shot hevi 13 is because i could not find any 7 shot at the time i bought shells
Quote from: K9Doc on March 05, 2012, 10:28:11 PM
Nice. That's exactly my point. I just opened a new box of Win. Extened Range and Federal Heavywt. I have specific chokes for each gun and each load. Long story short, the temp. was the same and barrels clean, but numbers were down by 25 to 50 in each load. Its not just a Hevi 13 problem. Its just more recognized, because more of us on Old gobbler shoot 'em.
That's impossible! Winchester Extended Range never has bad lots of shells, they are always consistent. LOL
I detect some sarcasm by Strutstopper. ;D
It's frustrating to have to check each new box of ammo before going hunting. I have to work too hard and travel way too far to miss!!! Thats's why I too have jumped on the reloading wagon. Good Luck to all this season.
Quote from: K9Doc on March 05, 2012, 10:11:48 PM
It's funny how so many guys are shocked by the inconsistency in shotshells from lot to lot. There is a reason, it's called mass production. It will vary due to subtle differences in powders, primers, wads, and yes the actual shot....P.S. I recently spoke with Rob Roberts at Gobbler Guns. He said he has seen changes in the Federal heavyweight, Win. Xtended Range, and Hevi 13.
So, Lot #s do matter to me.
Exactly. 15-20 years ago, I found a good box of Winchester red hull Supreme #5 lead that patterned well with my Hastings .660. Went right back to the store and bought three more boxes of the same lot number.
20+ years ago everybody was shooting #4 and #6 lead through factory modified and full chokes, most never having the first clue about what their gun limitations were (never mind PoA vs. PoI, or down range pattering performance of that lead shell / choke combination at 20 yards and 40 yards).
Just the other year, I watched one of our old timers load paper hull #4 lead shells into his Browning. Called a bird in for him and he flat bowled it over at 15 yards. I don't think he was ever concerned about patterning or lot numbers since the day he bought his special paper hull "turkey loads."
For me, I will take what I know -- 250+ Hevi 7's at 40 yards over the lead equivalent in down range energy every day.
A supposedly "bad" lot of Hevi 7's will still pattern better than any other factory load. It's not like 250 won't kill a bird. Oh wait, I forgot...they will just bounce off. :lol: :deadhorse:
Quote from: goblr77 on March 09, 2012, 09:22:19 AM
A supposedly "bad" lot of Hevi 7's will still pattern better than any other factory load. It's not like 250 won't kill a bird. Oh wait, I forgot...they will just bounce off. :lol: :deadhorse:
Exactly. So called bad lot numbers of Hevi 7's still turn better numbers out of my rigs than other factory loads. Bad shells form other companies normally mean bad results. For the guys who think numbers don't mean anything are virtually saying pattern density means nothing which is ridiculous. I just hunt with the best pattern I'm able to obtain and also the most consistent from shell to shell. For me that just happens to be Hevi 3/2/7's and 3.5/2.25/7's. The effectiveness of Hevi 7's I have proven to myself by putting the "smack down" on a large number of gobblers. To each his own and certain guns pattern other shells better. If hevi 7's will produce on paper they will produce in the field unless the hunter is attempting to shoot too far. Questionable shots=inconsistent results no matter what load you shoot.
I would much rather shoot a load that I am sure will kill at 35yds than one that is inconsistent and will kill at 55yds one time and only 50 the next. :z-dizzy:
Quote from: joker on March 09, 2012, 05:55:51 PM
I would much rather shoot a load that I am sure will kill at 35yds than one that is inconsistent and will kill at 55yds one time and only 50 the next. :z-dizzy:
The point is..shoot 40yds or less and if he's 45 your still good. That will give you 5-10 yds from your 35. 50-55 is too far regardless.250-300 in a 10 @ 40 is consistent at 40-45 without a doubt.
Quote from: GOLD HUNTER on March 05, 2012, 09:55:16 PM
find some better cardboard :TooFunny: .......try shoot-um in a soup can!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohu8cdXFR-k
Those are some big 7 and 8 shot holes. TSS at a high velocity are great loads. Hevi 7's at 1090 I'm still not sold on. The super strong cardboard I shoot at with Hevi 7's always holds on to a few pellets. Always. They will kill a bird. Shot mine at 42 yards with them last year. I have been much happier with the results of lead 6's. My results are probably just an anomaly.
Quote from: jfair on March 09, 2012, 06:46:55 PM
Quote from: GOLD HUNTER on March 05, 2012, 09:55:16 PM
find some better cardboard :TooFunny: .......try shoot-um in a soup can!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohu8cdXFR-k
Those are some big 7 and 8 shot holes. TSS at a high velocity are great loads. Hevi 7's at 1090 I'm still not sold on. The super strong cardboard I shoot at with Hevi 7's always holds on to a few pellets. Always. They will kill a bird. Shot mine at 42 yards with them last year. I have been much happier with the results of lead 6's. My results are probably just an anomaly.
Just curious but will the lead 6's pass through the card board at the same distance the Hevi 7's are sticking in the cardboard? Copper plated? Nickel plated?
Quote from: Longshanks on March 09, 2012, 07:25:34 PM
Just curious but will the lead 6's pass through the card board at the same distance the Hevi 7's are sticking in the cardboard? Copper plated? Nickel plated
Won't say never. Just not very often. The Hevi 7's always. Some pellets appear to be 8's 9's and 10's to me. These are the ones that most often stick. The 7's do go through much more often than not, but will stick sometimes too. My results with them. I just find it hard to believe that myself and the others that I have seen in person (not a forum) have the same results but differ from what is posted here. Again, could be some anomaly in my backyard.
I use to shoot lead 6's. Killed one at 47yds with them. But the shot didn't go all the way through the head and neck like the Hevi-13 #7' do. Like I said I smoked one standing at 45yds plus with the Hevi-13 3" #7 loads. If you pattern your gun to obtain your best pattern at 40yds with this load and have say 250 hits in a 10" and another 200 or so in the 20" you'll toast any gobbler that walks easily at 45yds. And again if you don't, you probably just simply missed. Too many people on here are talking like these 7's are skeptical on turkeys. Im here to tell you they are probably one of the best shot choices you can shoot period.