Heys guys, Its been a while sence we've been on here.
Beech River Game Calls just got back from nashville, and i was looking for some imput on the new booth price increase from some of the other vendors.
Most of us guys are small, and it wont be long untill the NWTF pushes the small guy completly out and all there will be to look at is a production line product. Thanks
What was the going $$$$ to set up, did yall make any $$$
brian
I was talking to Jim Clay from Perfection. He said they were going up like 450.00 a booth. Thats nuts.
TRKYHTR
Just a thought about rising costs...I didn't go to Nashville, never had the chance to go before this year either.
That said, I'm involved with a planning committee that's hosting a two day conference later this year. This event is the second in a series, the first taking place in 2007.
Cost for the exact same hotel, conference rooms, meals, etc. have increased more than 40% since the 2007 event.
40%. So, you have the following choices. Charge attendees more. Charge membership more. Charge vendors more. Accept more donations. Or lay out more of your own capital.
You can do any of the above, or all of them together. Bottom line for our planning committee is this hotel and their competing hotels in the region are approximately 40% more expensive for the same services provided lass than 5 years ago.
I'm not surprised its getting more expensive to pull this type of event off.
Quote from: paboxcall on February 13, 2012, 05:24:09 PM
Just a thought about rising costs...I didn't go to Nashville, never had the chance to go before this year either.
That said, I'm involved with a planning committee that's hosting a two day conference later this year. This event is the second in a series, the first taking place in 2007.
Cost for the exact same hotel, conference rooms, meals, etc. have increased more than 40% since the 2007 event.
40%. So, you have the following choices. Charge attendees more. Charge membership more. Charge vendors more. Accept more donations. Or lay out more of your own capital.
You can do any of the above, or all of them together. Bottom line for our planning committee is this hotel and their competing hotels in the region are approximately 40% more expensive for the same services provided lass than 5 years ago.
I'm not surprised its getting more expensive to pull this type of event off.
Kinda of funny one of the options wasnt for NWTF to change locations of the venue since cost have gone up. Bet somebody would "negotiate" if they thought they were going to lose the revenue.
Quote from: savduck on February 13, 2012, 06:23:34 PMKinda of funny one of the options wasnt for NWTF to change locations of the venue since cost have gone up. Bet somebody would "negotiate" if they thought they were going to lose the revenue.
That is exactly what I'd be thinking. Those booths have been what, around $800-900? That kind of jump is too much, irrespective of the change in the economy.
I did not go this year, but heard that a lot of vendors had about sold about by Sunday.
The circus won't be much fun when all the animals are DEAD!!!
The sad part is the small craftsman building his calls one at a time that make the show worthwhile for me will be forced out and it will just be the assembly line crap from Honduras or wherever big name company finds the cheapest price to make their next squealing whatever. I don't have anything against Waddell and some of the other big names that were there, but I am not standing in line to get their autograph, but I did wait patiently to spend a few minutes visiting with Dave Constantine, Jim Casada, Marlin Watkins, and struck up great conversation with several callmakers who will be highly regarded in the near future. It would be a shame if these guys could not afford a booth at the convention. At this point I guess we will just have to all meet up on the sacred N"WTF" ground for our own convention.
It wasnt long ago that the Ducks Unlimited had the Great Outdoor Festival every year in Memphis. Tons of vendors, shows and activities for just about anyone to get involved with. The vendors could actually provide their wares at a discounted price due to the booth costs. Then Primedia took over the event and prices soon soared for boothes. Small time guys could not afford to come and the other vendors could not afford to sell at a cheaper price. It soon became so bad that not even Mack's Prairie Wings would come. Now there is no longer a show and it sucks. NWTF has a good deal going, but will soon let it go the route of the GOF if they are not careful. Booth prices have risen several times in the past few years, not to mention that each vendor HAS to have a business license ( like $130) travel expenses ( gas, food, lodging), etc.
I am like drenalinld, I dont go there to see Primos, HS Strut, Realtree or those guys. I go to see the small time guys that I have formed friendships with over the years. I doubt I will ever get big enough to warrant getting a booth at that show as I cant afford it
I wonder if they have ever considered Branson? Even a more central location than Nashville, and, I'm guessing, less expensive all-around.
Quote from: Neill_Prater on February 14, 2012, 12:32:00 PM
I wonder if they have ever considered Branson? Even a more central location than Nashville, and, I'm guessing, less expensive all-around.
Last I was in Branson, it only had a 2 lane road in and out, that would be a nightmare
I was told when we signed the contract for next year that it is going to be in nashville untill 2015, then they are looking at louisville ky and somewhere in IN, or NC.
On top of the booth price they wanted $188.00 for electric for 3 days, "thats one plug ".
If vendors dont speek up if will only be worse in the years to come.
They just posted on the NWTF website it's there till 2018
When I was heavy into collecting antique fishing lures, "the little fish" would do what we called room trading at night. After the show closed. If the door was open, come on in and have a look at the stuff for sale or trade.
It is to the point that I am surprised I don't see more small vendors trying to split booth space. But, I hope they can keep the costs at least where they are for a few years. My buddy had done the show two years in a row, but decided to skip it this year and is doing an NRA show and an east coast outdoors show in MD instead. I like the mom & pop booths, but it seems like the big boys are squeezing them out.
I have been in the past and it seems there are less and less of the home ade custom calls each year. it is being took over by the production callers and the outfitters.
How much do you think you should pay. $450 seems cheap to see 44,000 turkey hunters in one weekend . If you sell your calls for $50 each you need to sell 9 or 3 a day to break even on the booth. I would think that if your call is any good that should be no problem. everyone wants something for nothing .
I run a 65,000 sq foot arena we charge $400 an hour for indoor soccer fields and its old and beat up. My guess a good deal at that place is $15k a day just for the venue
Quote from: cfrye11 on February 19, 2012, 05:15:28 PM
How much do you think you should pay. $450 seems cheap to see 44,000 turkey hunters in one weekend . If you sell your calls for $50 each you need to sell 9 or 3 a day to break even on the booth. I would think that if your call is any good that should be no problem. everyone wants something for nothing .
I run a 65,000 sq foot arena we charge $400 an hour for indoor soccer fields and its old and beat up. My guess a good deal at that place is $15k a day just for the venue
They want to add another $450 to the booth fee which would bring the fee up to close to $1400 for a booth.
There were reportedly 50 less call makers at the show this year compared to last. With a price jump, there are sure to be even fewer next year. It's not only the booth space that need to be considered. With travel, lodging expenses and other "fees" tacked on by the establishment (the NWTF) at the convention the small guys are lucky to break even anymore. What do most folks want to see when they go to the show? The stuff they can't find at a Wal-Mart or other big box store and pretty soon they aren't gonna find it at the convention either.
The NWTF seems to have forgotten, or they don't care, who it was that helped them get going. It was the little guys who gave of their time and products to support a once noble cause, the promotion of the sport of turkey hunting.
Looks like i am going to sell roadside out of my vehicle down the road or on the public sidewalk outside the convention .That is what it is going to come to for the small guy. This is one reason I dropped my subscription to NWTF they are getting to monopolized and do not care about the small guy anymore.
So I don't get flamed -- I've never attended the NWTF, nor have plans to in the future. Just an observer.
Seems like an easy solution to me if the vendors don't want to be burdened with the escalating costs to put these kind of shows on, then the cost of renting that hall must be passed along to someone else. Refer to my first post on this thread where I found, as a chair of a planning committee, that hosting a conference later this year will cost us 40% more in 2012 than it did in 2007. Five years, 40% more for the same location and services. Regional hotel competitors are about the same cost too.
So for us to put on our conference, it will cost us about 40% more than it did five years ago. We either pass that cost along to the attendees, ask for additional donations, ask vendors to come in and help share the expense and put them in front of a captive audience for two days, or some or all of the above.
Or cancel the whole thing and not do it. That's an option too.
So who pays for the NWTF get together??? Either the people coming through the doors, ask for additional donations from sponsors, vendors, or increase the paying NWTF membership.
Or cancel that event too.
Pretty simple math to me.
So, I was interested and looked up the vendor fees. Here they are for 2013
2013 Booth prices:
Initial corner booth - $875
Additional corner booths - $840 each
Initial inline booth - $775
Additional inline booths - $745 each
Premium - Row 1 - $250; Row 2 - $175; Row 3 - $100
Anyone comment on what they were this year?
Anyone know what Premium Row 1, 2, 3 means?
Quote from: sugarray on February 20, 2012, 11:45:43 AM
So, I was interested and looked up the vendor fees. Here they are for 2013
2013 Booth prices:
Initial corner booth - $875
Additional corner booths - $840 each
Initial inline booth - $775
Additional inline booths - $745 each
Premium - Row 1 - $250; Row 2 - $175; Row 3 - $100
Anyone comment on what they were this year?
Anyone know what Premium Row 1, 2, 3 means?
These prices do not include the vendor's license that is payed to the county, then the state sales tax levied on all sales.
I haven't been for the past 2 years, but have no desire to go again to setup a booth. Many of the attendees are "wowwed" by the flashy booths of the big name companies and personalities that are there to give autographs.
There is so much "ambient noise" from the crowds that a person has a hard time getting a feel for the sound of an individual call they are trying to run. I know I was quite frustrated by the "pro-staffers" of one particular callmaker (does not participate in this forum) standing in the aisles outside of their 4-space corner booth running calls like they were trying to call over the sound of the entire convention center. It reminded me of the "carnies" that yell at the folks passing by trying to get them to come look at their two-headed snake or some bearded lady or something... These guys would actually walk up next to people in the aisles and start running their calls at full volume. If that's what it takes to sell calls, count me out.
I enjoyed meeting some of the great folks from OG when I went, but as far as making a profit, which most people who sell products like to do... it didn't work out like I had hoped.
What the NWTF needs to understand is that very few people will pay 3.50 a gal. for gas and 18.00 to get in to see what you can find at Walmart or Bass Pro for free.
Quote from: lightsoutcalls on February 20, 2012, 01:11:30 PM
...There is so much "ambient noise" from the crowds that a person has a hard time getting a feel for the sound of an individual call they are trying to run...
Indeed!
Quote from: stinkpickle on February 20, 2012, 03:07:47 PM
Quote from: lightsoutcalls on February 20, 2012, 01:11:30 PM
...There is so much "ambient noise" from the crowds that a person has a hard time getting a feel for the sound of an individual call they are trying to run...
Indeed!
Bet that wasn't much of a problem the year one of those big companies launched their Dead Silence.
:TooFunny:
Quote from: paboxcall on February 20, 2012, 03:12:34 PM
Quote from: stinkpickle on February 20, 2012, 03:07:47 PM
Quote from: lightsoutcalls on February 20, 2012, 01:11:30 PM
...There is so much "ambient noise" from the crowds that a person has a hard time getting a feel for the sound of an individual call they are trying to run...
Indeed!
Bet that wasn't much of a problem the year one of those big companies launched their Dead Silence.
:TooFunny:
:TooFunny: I'm sure all the neighborhood dogs went crazy.
Quote from: paboxcall on February 20, 2012, 11:40:43 AM
So I don't get flamed -- I've never attended the NWTF, nor have plans to in the future. Just an observer.
Seems like an easy solution to me if the vendors don't want to be burdened with the escalating costs to put these kind of shows on, then the cost of renting that hall must be passed along to someone else. Refer to my first post on this thread where I found, as a chair of a planning committee, that hosting a conference later this year will cost us 40% more in 2012 than it did in 2007. Five years, 40% more for the same location and services. Regional hotel competitors are about the same cost too.
So for us to put on our conference, it will cost us about 40% more than it did five years ago. We either pass that cost along to the attendees, ask for additional donations, ask vendors to come in and help share the expense and put them in front of a captive audience for two days, or some or all of the above.
Or cancel the whole thing and not do it. That's an option too.
So who pays for the NWTF get together??? Either the people coming through the doors, ask for additional donations from sponsors, vendors, or increase the paying NWTF membership.
Or cancel that event too.
Pretty simple math to me.
Once again, I fail to see " or move the event to a place that is more cost effective"
This sounds a lot like the gas companies defending why gas is an expensive as it is. Move the event. There are places out there that see the revenue that this event could bring to their town. Some one some where is willing to make a deal.
Quote from: savduck on February 20, 2012, 07:17:45 PM
Quote from: paboxcall on February 20, 2012, 11:40:43 AM
So I don't get flamed -- I've never attended the NWTF, nor have plans to in the future. Just an observer.
Seems like an easy solution to me if the vendors don't want to be burdened with the escalating costs to put these kind of shows on, then the cost of renting that hall must be passed along to someone else. Refer to my first post on this thread where I found, as a chair of a planning committee, that hosting a conference later this year will cost us 40% more in 2012 than it did in 2007. Five years, 40% more for the same location and services. Regional hotel competitors are about the same cost too.
So for us to put on our conference, it will cost us about 40% more than it did five years ago. We either pass that cost along to the attendees, ask for additional donations, ask vendors to come in and help share the expense and put them in front of a captive audience for two days, or some or all of the above.
Or cancel the whole thing and not do it. That's an option too.
So who pays for the NWTF get together??? Either the people coming through the doors, ask for additional donations from sponsors, vendors, or increase the paying NWTF membership.
Or cancel that event too.
Pretty simple math to me.
Once again, I fail to see " or move the event to a place that is more cost effective"
This sounds a lot like the gas companies defending why gas is an expensive as it is. Move the event. There are places out there that see the revenue that this event could bring to their town. Some one some where is willing to make a deal.
Bidding the convention would save some dollars, for sure, in the short term, but some dollars isn't enough to pass along any significant savings. And if a new venue cherry picked the bid, they won't stay that cheap foor long, can't afford to take a loss.
Moving it to a larger city would increase costs in many other ways, for example price of a hotel in Chicago or Atlanta is much more than it is in Ashville...moving it to a smaller city would also increase cost because the supply of hotel rooms and restaurants isn't sufficient -- so demand on short supply would push ancillary costs associated with travel and stay upward. Plus the smaller town would complicate traveling -- further from major airports, harder to get to, etc.
That's a short sighted easy answer to say move it, moving it complicates many aspects of it you don't consider and provides little to no savings, and may end up costing more in the end.
I dont know the answers, but I dont see where competition is ever a bad thing. Booth prices have increased almost every year for the past several years, just that this year seems to be more monetarily. The average vendor is automatically $2000 in the hole before the show even opens. Now for people like HS Strut, Primos, etc, that is not a problem. But when you are a vendor selling custom calls, that is a steep hill to climb, especially for someone whose name is not as widely known as others. When you add that a callmaker is trying to sell his wares in a space not really conducive ( you are not going to hear just how good or bad a call can sound when it is drowned out by 50 million other calls and sounds) that makes the task even more daunting. I think the NWTF owes it to ALL vendors to do whatever is in their power to ensure that these shows are attended by everyone, vendor and attendee alike. So if that means shopping venues, that should be explored. And even though I live in Atlanta, I would not recommend this area, but outside the perimeter there are many places that could do a great job with this show, as well as many others throughout the country.
Quote from: misfire on February 21, 2012, 11:08:24 AM
I dont know the answers, but I dont see where competition is ever a bad thing. Booth prices have increased almost every year for the past several years, just that this year seems to be more monetarily. The average vendor is automatically $2000 in the hole before the show even opens. Now for people like HS Strut, Primos, etc, that is not a problem. But when you are a vendor selling custom calls, that is a steep hill to climb, especially for someone whose name is not as widely known as others. When you add that a callmaker is trying to sell his wares in a space not really conducive ( you are not going to hear just how good or bad a call can sound when it is drowned out by 50 million other calls and sounds) that makes the task even more daunting. I think the NWTF owes it to ALL vendors to do whatever is in their power to ensure that these shows are attended by everyone, vendor and attendee alike. So if that means shopping venues, that should be explored. And even though I live in Atlanta, I would not recommend this area, but outside the perimeter there are many places that could do a great job with this show, as well as many others throughout the country.
I'm sorry that the facility lay out creates that situation, you would think the convention would be a great place to show off your calls. Having never been there I can still see your point about how difficult it is for a potential customer to really hear a yelp roll over on a long box for example, with everything else going on.
BY industry standards $77.50 a foot is dirt cheap for booth space. The upcoming Northwest Sport Show in MPLS is at $1850 for ten feet. The Game Fair is around $1450 and has the same attendance as the NWTF convention but is two weekends long, and outdoors in the middle of summer.
CW
Quote from: sugarray on February 14, 2012, 12:50:12 PM
Quote from: Neill_Prater on February 14, 2012, 12:32:00 PM
I wonder if they have ever considered Branson? Even a more central location than Nashville, and, I'm guessing, less expensive all-around.
Last I was in Branson, it only had a 2 lane road in and out, that would be a nightmare
Well, I don't go there much, either, even though I live only about 50 miles from there, but they handle something like a million visitors a year, and have improved the roads a lot over the past few years. They also have their own private commercial airport now with several different airlines utiilizing it. And, unlike the more urban areas, the locals are used to it, and you can actually pull out into traffic, because people will wait for you to do so and wave and smile while they are doing it.
That's expensive, but I also understand price increases have effected everything over the last few years. Is there an organization established of custom call makers to plan and conduct a convention of their own?
Never been to one and never will. Not much of a fan of the NWTF anyway
Quote from: paboxcall on February 21, 2012, 11:35:49 AMI'm sorry that the facility lay out creates that situation, you would think the convention would be a great place to show off your calls. Having never been there I can still see your point about how difficult it is for a potential customer to really hear a yelp roll over on a long box for example, with everything else going on.
it is not just other calls, people talking and moving that creates the ambient noise, unfortunately. They allow some vendors to blast music and video/audio with no noise abatement or partitions. They also have waterfowl guide services and production cos. that have people in there to blast duck and goose calls. The Fowl Life has Megan Prather in its booth in a tight shirt hammering on a duck call all weekend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emR95cKDtE8
lol... I remember when Megan and my wife didn't see eye to eye... and Megan come up with the short end of the stick... lol
I think this years increase were through the roof, I expect to see fewer call makers next year vs. this year... and in 4 or 5 years plan to see maybe a handful if any at all
The local "Big Buck" shows around here are as much as the NWTF on booth space, as mentioned, but that doesn't mean that they are affordable for smaller vendors. I did Nashville once, Wannamacher's gun show in Tulsa once and a couple of smaller gun shows and craft fairs. I have yet to see a decent return from the investment of having a booth. I have enjoyed meeting folks that share the passion of hunting, but can't justify the cost of the booth space. Sure, I can deduct the expenses on my taxes, but my money is better spent on buying materials and building more calls. It has taken several years to build a customer base, but building and standing behind a quality call will sell more calls for me in a season than investing $1,000+ and spending 3 days sitting in a 10x10 booth.
It's a choice that people in business have to make. Is the investment worth the potential payoff? If it works out to your benefit, likely you will go back and do it again. If you just break even or don't break even, it likely isn't worth the expense. There are other ways of getting your name out...