Ted with Hunting Public was fined over the weekend while videoing another one of The Hunting Public guys in Mississippi. Ted was only videoing and didn't have any calls / shells or gun while videoing on public ground.
In the past you didn't need a hunting license while videoing someone else hunting in Miss, but a new law passed and now you do...Public Ground
They posted a video about it on YouTube ....
Someone from Miss might shed more information about the new law...
This is NOT A BASHING POST about THP.... It's about making people aware of the NEW LAW...
Wow, what a stupid law. That is worse than needing a permit to video on National Forest land in the west , in some states.
Lots of areas have "participation" laws, if you accompany and are involved in the hunt you need a license.
Looked like a simple mistake on their part, as well as a money grab for game and fish!
On Illinois special draw hunts you have to have the actual permit, nobody can come along hunting license or not!
Bit of an over reach by game and fish as usual!
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I am fully in support of this. Good job officer and MDWFP.
I watched their confession video and one guy thought it would be a minor fine. WRONG! $500 fine for not having a license in MS. They give these tickets out regularly at the spillways for people fishing with no license. I got a fine for not having a plug in my gun turkey hunting in Missouri once. Stupid law in my opinion but I paid $150 and moved on. Break the rules and pay the fine, thats the way it works.
Some will be ecstatic since it was THP. If it was someone trying to film their grandkid's first hunt maybe not so much. What a hoot🙄
Getting a ticket for hunting without a license while not hunting is stupid, regardless of who gets the ticket!
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I disagree somewhat, I see all the time States advertising come to our state and enjoy the great Outdoors.
SO this is just my opinion, but if a youth / friend or wife wants to come along just to see what hunting is all about then they need a license if they company the other person who is hunting.
I do realize this is not in every state. Just some states
Regarding videoing, ( almost ) everyone these days is capable of videoing hunts or whatever, with a cell phone ...
I just feel this is an overreach in some states... Another way to get funds... IMO
IMO - any State that does this is a money grab pure and simple. Boo!
I can see this as a 1st Amendment challenge. If this is fought by THP, they could contend that there wasn't any intent to hunt (no ammo, no gun in hand, no calls on the person) only camera (media or citizen taking video or pictures on Public or Private land) which does not constitute any hunting whatsoever and that doesn't require a hunting license. Not sure how far THP wants to take this or if a Lawyer may take this Pro Bono to prove a point of Law. Something to consider.
^More of this against government overreach!
who says that he wouldn't borrow his buddy's gun to try and shot a turkey,,,,,,,,,
Quote from: doublespurs21 on March 18, 2025, 05:56:38 PMwho says that he wouldn't borrow his buddy's gun to try and shot a turkey,,,,,,,,,
Legally to be convicted, you have to be caught in the act with gun in hand unless he opened his mouth (5th amendment, Right to remain silent and not answer any questions without lawyer present) or the warden can prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Seems he has plenty of witnesses to back up his story. What evidence does the warden have, other than circumstantial and a NEW law that hasn't been challenged.
While I may not be a fan of the internet hunters, I don't rejoice in their screwups. Well, you have to be a pretty obvious dbag for me to find any joy in it anyways. Many states have a "participating in the hunt" rule. Sounds like they missed it and got fined for it. Pay the fine and learn from it. That's life. Heck, I almost got a $250.00 fine for not having a confirmation # of a deer i killed and checked in written on my license. I showed the lady a screenshot of the confirmation # on my phone as well as a picture of the deer. The dates matched up and she double-checked my harvest records. Technically, she was right. It is supposed to be written on the license once it's issued. If I wasn't so suave and good-looking, it probably wouldn't have gone so well. We wound up exchanging numbers and swapping hunting pictures for a bit before she left. Some of these new officers (especially women) have to try to assert their authority a bit. It am sure it's a little intimidating being a female officer. Best bet it to try and follow the rules with the best intents and usually that shows through. Not always though.
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Please correct me if I'm wrong here. The MS Commission of Wildlife, Fisheries, and Parks recently (2022?) created a new regulation to limit the number of non-resident hunters on public lands due overcrowding and pressure on the turkey population. The new regulation requires non-residents to apply for a limited public land permit. The purpose of the regulation was to reduce the number of non-residents using public lands and harvesting turkeys.
Social media played no small part in creating the need to limit non-resident hunters.
A social media influencer applied for a limited public land hunting permit, which means to hunt legally they agreed to abide by the State of Mississippi's regulations. It clearly states in the Frequently Asked Questions section of the MDWFP website that "Drawn non-resident hunters may be accompanied by one licensed guest, aged 16 years or older". Pretty cleverly written!
Now a social media influencer has been ticked by a wildlife officer for breaking a regulation that had to be created because of overuse, largely brought on by social media. Furthermore they either did not read the hunting regulations or they chose to ignore them.
No, I do not feel bad for them, nor o I feel that this is government overreach. I didn't watch the video, so maybe I'm making assumption here.
When you work in the outdoor industry in any sort your the poster child for being a public example. I'm pretty sure $500 to THP is a little bit different than it is to most people. Pay it and go on. It's not like he was 1/2 mile deep on posted property and 2 birds over the limit.
Quote from: Guskie on March 18, 2025, 06:59:14 PMPlease correct me if I'm wrong here. The MS Commission of Wildlife, Fisheries, and Parks recently (2022?) created a new regulation to limit the number of non-resident hunters on public lands due overcrowding and pressure on the turkey population. The new regulation requires non-residents to apply for a limited public land permit. The purpose of the regulation was to reduce the number of non-residents using public lands and harvesting turkeys.
Social media played no small part in creating the need to limit non-resident hunters.
A social media influencer applied for a limited public land hunting permit, which means to hunt legally they agreed to abide by the State of Mississippi's regulations. It clearly states in the Frequently Asked Questions section of the MDWFP website that "Drawn non-resident hunters may be accompanied by one licensed guest, aged 16 years or older". Pretty cleverly written!
Now a social media influencer has been ticked by a wildlife officer for breaking a regulation that had to be created because of overuse, largely brought on by social media. Furthermore they either did not read the hunting regulations or they chose to ignore them.
No, I do not feel bad for them, nor o I feel that this is government overreach. I didn't watch the video, so maybe I'm making assumption here.
You nailed it.
Plenty of other states require you to buy a license to participate in the hunt. This wouldn't be such a big deal if it wasn't for who it is. Props to the warden for patrolling and doing their job.
Quote from: Guskie on March 18, 2025, 06:59:14 PMIt clearly states in the Frequently Asked Questions section of the MDWFP website that "Drawn non-resident hunters may be accompanied by one licensed guest, aged 16 years or older".
If this is the actual wording of the regulation, the entire issue is a no-brainer. I would go to court, show the judge my driver's license, he would dismiss the case while admonishing the wildlife agency to learn how to write regulations properly, and I would walk out the door.
On the other hand, if the wording of the regulation actually reads something to the effect of " ...may be accompanied by one guest who has a valid turkey hunting license in the state of Mississippi" then I would admittedly very sheepishly (like the video shows the THP boys did) accept my fate, pay my fine, and try to be more thorough when reviewing state hunting regulations.
GN - that is how it is stated in the "Frequently Asked Questions" page. I hope it more clearly defined in state code.
Quote from: Guskie on March 18, 2025, 09:43:52 PMGN - that is how it is stated in the "Frequently Asked Questions" page. I hope it more clearly defined in state code.
I suspect that it is...and is probably pretty clear in the regs, as well. I only pointed it out because I have seen some pretty badly worded regulations over the years from agencies that should have known better. :)
Feel bad for them?!!! This is called CONTENT, for their hunting shows. They probably set it up. 500$?!! are you guys kidding me, you think that's a significant sum of money for that corporation? You see we are talking about it. It creates controversy which equates to money in the bank for THP.
Quote from: Zobo on March 18, 2025, 10:16:54 PMFeel bad for them?!!! This is called CONTENT, for their hunting shows. They probably set it up. 500$?!! are you guys kidding me, you think that's a significant sum of money for that corporation? You see we are talking about it. It creates controversy which equates to money in the bank for THP.
Drama will get more clicks and subscribers.
They got a ticket for not following the regs. They made a video about it to warn others to carefully check the regs and also to get ahead of the internet assumptions. They haven't made any excuses for what they did nor have they been negative about the officer or what she did. No more no less.
Quote from: Zobo on March 18, 2025, 10:16:54 PMFeel bad for them?!!! This is called CONTENT, for their hunting shows. They probably set it up. 500$?!! are you guys kidding me, you think that's a significant sum of money for that corporation? You see we are talking about it. It creates controversy which equates to money in the bank for THP.
Video had ~10,000 views when someone sent it to me last night about 2 hours after being posted. Its now nearly at 100k views in a day. $$$$$
The folks simping over them in the comments is hilarious. Its literally a cult-like following for these YouTubers.
On the huge Mississippi Turkey Hunters Facebook group, the bulk of the comments are on the other end of the spectrum. Glad people are finally waking up to the damage that has been done.
I think it could have very easily been a warning, just like most "small" issues or easily overlooked things. Sounds like the game wardens were waiting on them when they came out which makes me wonder if an OldGobbler member didn't recognize their vehicle and immediately call the authorities on them ;)
Regardless, a $500 is a bit much, if a fine at all, for that violation.
They owned it before anybody spun a story of it. Admirable of them of not trying to hide anything.
Some of the money they've made from state wildlife departments should cover that no problem.
For whatever it's worth... my buddy wanted to come with me to hunt Mississippi a few years ago and video the hunt. Not for YouTube or anything. We don't post hunts, I was going for a couple days and wanted someone to make the drive and share camp with. We noticed this in the regs and called MDWFP for clarification. He bought a license and videoed me killing a bird. He's a good friend.
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I feel that it is a stupid rule, but it's the rule. I'm sure we have all overlooked some regulation at some point. But if we were caught and ticketed over it, then it is what it is.
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I think we are losing sight of the REAL picture here. This has NOTHING to do with how WE view or feel about THP and their videos, followers and possible detriment to turkey hunting. What we need to focus on is the Rule of Law. The argument I have is there was ZERO intent to Hunt. Most State Regs have a page that refers to Manner of Taking and NO where does it state taking game with a camera. If this is the State of MS view, then people that are nature lovers, videoing or taking pictures with a camera of elk, deer, turkeys, bears etc could be written a ticket for Hunting Without a License as well. I contend that if the State of Mississippi can do this to THP and take away their 1st Amendment rights, they can do this to any of us as well. Great thread Greg and Great posts everyone.
Quote from: Kygobblergetter on March 19, 2025, 08:09:56 AMFor whatever it's worth... my buddy wanted to come with me to hunt Mississippi a few years ago and video the hunt. Not for YouTube or anything. We don't post hunts, I was going for a couple days and wanted someone to make the drive and share camp with. We noticed this in the regs and called MDWFP for clarification. He bought a license and videoed me killing a bird. He's a good friend.
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That is a good friend! That's an expensive license to pay for to video a hunt.
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About 25-30yrs ago my brother-in-law wanted to go duck hunting with me and just video the hunt. I contacted the DNR officer that patrolled our area to see if my BIL needed a license & stamps. He said, technically my BIL did not need them if is only videoing. BUT, if he touches a decoy, picks up a shell I drop, rearranges the brush on the blind, points out a duck to me, etc., he is participating in the hunt. The officer advice was my BIL would actually be better off if he sat somewhere other than in the blind with me or spend the $35-$40 for license/stamps and have fun.
For spring turkey hunting this is taken directly from the handout regulations book. It doesn't mention anything about videoing, but this handout is not the complete set of regs.
HELPING OTHER HUNTERS
A resident hunter with a valid spring turkey
hunting license for any season may assist
other hunters in any season. A nonresident
may assist other hunters only in the zone and
season indicated on his or her license. The
hunter doing the assisting may not carry a
shotgun or bow or shoot a turkey unless he or
she has a valid license and an unfilled
transportation tag for that zone and season.
Quote from: aclawrence on March 19, 2025, 08:48:37 AMQuote from: Kygobblergetter on March 19, 2025, 08:09:56 AMFor whatever it's worth... my buddy wanted to come with me to hunt Mississippi a few years ago and video the hunt. Not for YouTube or anything. We don't post hunts, I was going for a couple days and wanted someone to make the drive and share camp with. We noticed this in the regs and called MDWFP for clarification. He bought a license and videoed me killing a bird. He's a good friend.
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That is a good friend! That's an expensive license to pay for to video a hunt.
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To top that off... we found another bird that evening. I told him to try and kill it the next morning and he said he was perfectly content to watch me shoot that one as well. I didn't kill him and he was a complete screwball bird. But that changes nothing. He was up to bat the next year in Florida but "forgot" to load his gun and told me I better shoot that Osceola before he got out of there. After I killed it he told me it wouldn't have made any sense for him to shoot it when that was the bird to finish my grand slam. He also hunted Indiana with me last year when season was nearing its end and he still had a Kentucky tag to fill. I killed in Indiana that morning. Him, my wife, and I went to one of HIS spots on the last day of the Kentucky season and when we finally got a bird to break he tried everything in his power to let my wife shoot. It didn't work out that way and he killed the bird. But he genuinely felt bad about it. I have been able to get him to shoot a few in front of me over the years though.
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Quote from: bbcoach on March 19, 2025, 08:28:12 AMI think we are losing sight of the REAL picture here. This has NOTHING to do with how WE view or feel about THP and their videos, followers and possible detriment to turkey hunting. What we need to focus on is the Rule of Law. The argument I have is there was ZERO intent to Hunt. Most State Regs have a page that refers to Manner of Taking and NO where does it state taking game with a camera. If this is the State of MS view, then people that are nature lovers, videoing or taking pictures with a camera of elk, deer, turkeys, bears etc could be written a ticket for Hunting Without a License as well. I contend that if the State of Mississippi can do this to THP and take away their 1st Amendment rights, they can do this to any of us as well. Great thread Greg and Great posts everyone.
X2 ... AS I said it's not about BASHING THP , ITS ABOUT THIS LAW AND IT WAS A NEW LAW ,,, I AGREE WITH YOU 100 Percent bbcoach..... Thanks
I agree, lots of good posts about the thread...
That certainly seems like a law that should be challenged if it's truly as vague as it seems. I hope there's more definition somewhere. I wonder if the cameraman had any calls or hunting gear on him or played any part in the hunt. Like most stories on the web, there's probably more to it. Like has already been said, by what I've read you taking any picture of any animal could be construed as hunting. Tourist be aware. I never had any desire to go to MIss. but now I am certain I don't ever want to go there.
Quote from: eggshell on March 19, 2025, 09:50:28 AMThat certainly seems like a law that should be challenged if it's truly as vague as it seems. I hope there's more definition somewhere. I wonder if the cameraman had any calls or hunting gear on him or played any part in the hunt. Like most stories on the web, there's probably more to it. Like has already been said, by what I've read you taking any picture of any animal could be construed as hunting. Tourist be aware. I never had any desire to go to MIss. but now I am certain I don't ever want to go there.
All he had with him was a video camera, again a Iphone can be a video camera ....
The wording allows for some grey area. In short, a challenge would probably get it thrown out per the written word.
Easy fix here.
If someone wishes to film hunting a public resource, tack on a filming fee. That'd would eliminate the questions and such.
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Normally when new and obviously ambiguous regulations are implemented violators are given warnings and clarifications. I'm sure THP being involved had nothing to do with this incident. There aren't enough "eye roll" emoji for this post.
MS should be embarrassed.
He broke the law plain and simple. Nonresidents have to be drawn and if drawn are allowed to bring 1 non hunting, licensed guest. It's on the nonresidents page in the question and answers. Mississippi put the part about a licensed guest in bold black print. THP admits they broke the rule and just didn't read that part. The rule is not hidden , I just looked at it again the question on the page for drawn nonresidents, Can I bring a guest? Answer is you may have 1 licensed non hunting guest. Should have read the rules, you travel and do this for a living. Good job by the Warden. Admit your mistake (they have)pay the fine and move on.
I just went to the site and read the regulation. I will repeat what I said previously. The regulation says only that the guest must be "licensed". It says nothing about having a Mississippi turkey license. I have a drivers license. Therefore I would be a "licensed guest". Anybody that wanted to challenge this regulation would have firm footing legally in my opinion.
Having said that, we all know that the regulation is intended to infer that the guest must have a valid turkey license. The fact that they did not simply include that clarification just indicates to me that whoever wrote the regulation is, simply put, incompetent.
End of story.
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 19, 2025, 11:24:05 PMI just went to the site and read the regulation. I will repeat what I said previously. The regulation says only that the guest must be "licensed". It says nothing about having a Mississippi turkey license. I have a drivers license. Therefore I would be a "licensed guest". Anybody that wanted to challenge this regulation would have firm footing legally in my opinion.
Having said that, we all know that the regulation is intended to infer that the guest must have a valid turkey license. The fact that they did not simply include that clarification just indicates to me that whoever wrote the regulation is, simply put, incompetent.
End of story.
Heck of a good catch... You are either my wife, or my new attorney... :goofball:
Falls in the category of "damned if you do, damned if you don't." I can imagine the outcry if it came to light that THP was let off with a warning for an infraction that perhaps resulted in a ticket and fine for someone else.
There are myriads of laws that I might not agree with, but, as I've heard before, "it doesn't have to make sense, it's the law", and if one chooses to break that law whether by intent or oversight, one should be prepared to accept the consequences. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
From what I have seen, THP handled the situation responsibly. Could we ask more of anyone else?
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I didn't think Mississippi allows filming on public lands. They have signs up in some places pointing that out.
Quote from: arkrem870 on March 20, 2025, 05:56:53 AMI didn't think Mississippi allows filming on public lands. They have signs up in some places pointing that out.
Personally I still stand on my previous statements to challenge this law. What takes Precedence, the BILL OF RIGHTS, 1st Amendment of the Constitution, 250 year old plus Federal Law or a New State law that could be interrupted to give anyone a citation for FILMING IN PUBLIC whether with a Hunting Party or not! The State of Mississippi, to me, has OVERSTEPPED ITS BOUNDS and infringed on OUR Basic Rights of the Constitution of the United States to enact a NEW law that infringes on a Basic 250 plus year old RIGHT that people fought and died for, FOR WHAT? Money? Power? or because I SAY ITS SO? I'll go on record and say this; I'm not a Big Fan of THP but I will say this NO STATE should enact laws to TRAMPLE on OUR BILL OF RIGHTS! Thanks to each of you for allowing me to express my Thoughts and Opinions on Matters of the Heart that each of us should hold Dearly and I Thank those that have Fought and Died for these RIGHTS! :z-twocents:
From what I have heard others say about Ms. justice system, I think that most likely the result of challenging this in court would receive a ruling from a judge that "a turkey license was implied and reasonable conclusion" and you'd still be fined and added court cost. Let some civil liberty warrior challenge it, pay the fine and call it a lesson learned. This is what I assume the THP guys did and they most likely made a good choice. They are getting their justice in the end, they are informing their constituents and preventing others from getting stupid fines. The part "B" is Ms. will now be marked by some traveling hunters as a "stay away state". Time will tell if this is good law or not. Who knows what the state's intent was, perhaps they actually want to keep the traveling videographers out of the state or clandestinely generate revenue. I think maybe they decided to dance around and handle snakes and the snake bit them.
Quote from: Missed mallards on March 19, 2025, 12:03:15 PMEasy fix here.
If someone wishes to film hunting a public resource, tack on a filming fee. That'd would eliminate the questions and such.
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Yes. And if someone wants to use some turkey calls we should add in a "calling fee". And also if they'd like to wear camouflage we should add in a camouflage fee. And if they'd like to use mapping software on their phone we should add in a mapping fee because you know, we'd hate for people to be profiting off of public land. We should pay more money to the government instead to make sure we have rights. That should fix it.
I despise all influencers/social media driven turkey foolishness.
But I believe the people that make the calls on Mississippi turkey hunting are taking things too far.
When they shut out my children from youth hunting because I cant seem to draw their pre April 1 permit I lost a lot of respect for them.
I agree with Gobblenut, license, hell I got all kinds of "license". They need to be specific!
I see it all the time with hunting regs, wording is vague and confusing.
THP will pay the fine and move on like most, any local should go to court!
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Be interesting if post season someone would submit a FOI request to see the number cited for this violation.
99 % sure that we have the same law in Georgia.
Anyone accompanying a hunter must have a valid license
Arkansas hunters were worse for the public land near me than any influencer has ever been. Glad they slowed them down! :goofball: :goofball: :goofball:
When you have watched a video of a turkey killing on the web, you have seen it all. When you have personally had a turkey at thirty yards or, preferably closer, you have "experienced" the ultimate that nature offers you. My opinion.
Almost be afraid to mosey around a MS or GA National Forest with a camera during any hunting season. Revenue enhancement at it's finest.
While it is a new reg, and perhaps a warning would suffice , knowing they would have simply just bought a license . I must admit.... We are in the era of influencers and everybody and their mother wanting to film everything all the time . Can't say I blame the state for wanting to capitalize on the opportunity for the money of making people who are creating content "for the money" buy a license ......if you aid in exploiting the resource then what's the problem in the state aiding in exploiting your pocket book.
Quote from: dzsmith on March 20, 2025, 10:36:17 PMWhile it is a new reg, and perhaps a warning would suffice , knowing they would have simply just bought a license . I must admit.... We are in the era of influencers and everybody and their mother wanting to film everything all the time. Can't say I blame the state for wanting to capitalize on the opportunity for the money of making people who are creating content "for the money" buy a license ......if you aid in exploiting the resource then what's the problem in the state aiding in exploiting your pocket book.
I agree with you; I believe the wording could have been better. Hunting or non-hunting guest needs a hunting license or just have a filming fee for commercial filming on Public Land
I'm guessing the guy who got the ticket wasn't drawn for the early non-res permit so a valid license wasn't available to him at the time.
Quote from: Paulmyr on March 21, 2025, 11:19:43 AMI'm guessing the guy who got the ticket wasn't drawn for the early non-res permit so a valid license wasn't available to him at the time.
That's correct. Same restriction applies to me taking my child on youth hunt. I didn't draw so therefore I can't assist my child. So we can't hunt at all.
Not exactly correct👆🏼
Just saying Paulmyr's assumption about what happened was not exactly correct.
Quote from: Paulmyr on March 21, 2025, 11:19:43 AMI'm guessing the guy who got the ticket wasn't drawn for the early non-res permit so a valid license wasn't available to him at the time.
He could have bought his hunting license. Nothing about the availability of it.
Quote from: deerhunt1988 on March 21, 2025, 03:00:10 PMQuote from: Paulmyr on March 21, 2025, 11:19:43 AMI'm guessing the guy who got the ticket wasn't drawn for the early non-res permit so a valid license wasn't available to him at the time.
He could have bought his hunting license. Nothing about the availability of it.
Right. He could have bought a license it just wouldn't have been valid if he didn't draw.
Quote from: Shiloh on March 21, 2025, 01:11:15 PMJust saying Paulmyr's assumption about what happened was not exactly correct.
So why would he not have a valid license if it was available to him? Inquiring minds want to know.
:drool:
Go back and watch the video. Pretty well explained I think.
I know I'm just one person but I refuse to support influencers/ etc with views. I will never watch any of the videos
Quote from: deerhunt1988 on March 21, 2025, 03:00:10 PMQuote from: Paulmyr on March 21, 2025, 11:19:43 AMI'm guessing the guy who got the ticket wasn't drawn for the early non-res permit so a valid license wasn't available to him at the time.
He could have bought his hunting license. Nothing about the availability of it.
Does that mean you can take your non resident youth during the youth hunt on national forest with just a hunting license and not a non resident early hunt permit (if you didn't draw)?
I'm not sure about that. It's more confusing than it has to be. At least our leaders aren't afraid to make changes and work at making it better. I'm sure they'll clear some of it up before next year.
Quote from: arkrem870 on March 21, 2025, 05:40:51 PMI know I'm just one person but I refuse to support influencers/ etc with views. I will never watch any of the videos
Again we are chatting about the law and how it happened ....Some other states are using this type of law ....
IT's Not about the influencer / videos .... Hopefully everyone can learn from the discussions / posts about the law. including ourselves.
Again we are chatting about the law and how it happened ....Some other states are using this type of law ....
IT's Not about the influencer / videos .... Hopefully everyone can learn from the discussions / posts about the law. including ourselves.
[/quote] Greg, if States continue to infringe on our Rights, none of us will be able to use our cell cameras (video and pictures), unless we have a license. They will say this constitutes Hunting as well.
Quote from: bbcoach on March 21, 2025, 06:47:50 PMAgain we are chatting about the law and how it happened ....Some other states are using this type of law ....
IT's Not about the influencer / videos .... Hopefully everyone can learn from the discussions / posts about the law. including ourselves.
Greg, if States continue to infringe on our Rights, none of us will be able to use our cell cameras (video and pictures), unless we have a license. They will say this constitutes Hunting as well.
[/quote]
Amen so true ... You shouldn't have to worry about laws just to enjoy the outdoors ... IMO
.
Quote from: Paulmyr on March 21, 2025, 03:45:13 PMQuote from: deerhunt1988 on March 21, 2025, 03:00:10 PMQuote from: Paulmyr on March 21, 2025, 11:19:43 AMI'm guessing the guy who got the ticket wasn't drawn for the early non-res permit so a valid license wasn't available to him at the time.
He could have bought his hunting license. Nothing about the availability of it.
Right. He could have bought a license it just wouldn't have been valid if he didn't draw.
License would have been valid on private lands if he didn't draw.
Quote from: Shiloh on March 21, 2025, 05:21:08 PMGo back and watch the video. Pretty well explained I think.
Sorry, I don't feel the need to watch turkey hunting vids. I Got better things to do.
Quote from: deerhunt1988 on March 21, 2025, 10:41:06 PMQuote from: Paulmyr on March 21, 2025, 03:45:13 PMQuote from: deerhunt1988 on March 21, 2025, 03:00:10 PMQuote from: Paulmyr on March 21, 2025, 11:19:43 AMI'm guessing the guy who got the ticket wasn't drawn for the early non-res permit so a valid license wasn't available to him at the time.
He could have bought his hunting license. Nothing about the availability of it.
Right. He could have bought a license it just wouldn't have been valid if he didn't draw.
License would have been valid on private lands if he didn't draw.
I didn't know THP stands for The Hunting Private! :toothy9:
There just seems to be so many Regulations these days. Miss just one and your Goose could be cooked.
So many "knee jerk" reactions from so many States. Getting silly.
I didn't have anything better to do so I watched THP's videos on this incident. Explained well and accepted responsibility. Followed up with a Monday hunt. They got a nice MS gobbler. Bummer for some I'm sure.
I get it Paul!
Quote from: arkrem870 on March 21, 2025, 11:33:56 AMQuote from: Paulmyr on March 21, 2025, 11:19:43 AMI'm guessing the guy who got the ticket wasn't drawn for the early non-res permit so a valid license wasn't available to him at the time.
That's correct. Same restriction applies to me taking my child on youth hunt. I didn't draw so therefore I can't assist my child. So we can't hunt at all.
Sure you can. Just apply as a family, surely one of you will draw. You can then turkey hunt like they do Utah Elk, in groups of 20 for the experience, or in THPs concern, the content. They don't care about these restrictions because as long as 1 of their 5-6 member "turkey tour team" draws they can go make content.
I hope this doesn't also apply to MS fishing. My wife and I go to Biloxi every so often to donate money to the casinos. I often take a rod and after buying a short term saltwater license we walk the beach and I surf fish. She has often taken my picture with her cell phone. I hope I don't need to bond her out since she won't have a license. See how stupid this is becoming. :funnyturkey:
Sure you can. Just apply as a family, surely one of you will draw. You can then turkey hunt like they do Utah Elk, in groups of 20 for the experience, or in THPs concern, the content. They don't care about these restrictions because as long as 1 of their 5-6 member "turkey tour team" draws they can go make content.
Here is the problem, as I see it. New MS law says he is participating in the Hunt so he has to have a license. He didn't draw a tag but was filming, taking video and or pictures (1st Amendment). He didn't have a gun, a call, shells, no gun, just a camera (on public ground). Something to consider, if a licensed driver (valid driver's license) gets pulled over by a police officer and the driver has his children in the car and no citations are issued, do the children get a ticket for participation in the drive because they don't have a license? MS and other States are assuming you are Hunting because you are in the group but have zero proof you were actually in the act of hunting. If you aren't, HUNTING, why are you required to have a license?
Joey, is that fishing spot a very limited draw WMA?
May be comparing apples to oranges.
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MS could come up with an easy solution then BB,
Only those who draw the dates for the WMA can be on said WMA. Honestly I'd like that better myself I think.
I think ALOT of you are mixing this up with someone on an open National forest etc etc.
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Quote from: sasquatch1 on March 22, 2025, 07:44:20 AMMS could come up with an easy solution then BB,
Only those who draw the dates for the WMA can be on said WMA. Honestly I'd like that better myself I think.
I think ALOT of you are mixing this up with someone on an open National forest etc etc.
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Isn't WMA public land as is National Forest? If that's the case, a non licensed individual has the same rights and privileges to be on the land as anyone else whether they are hunting or not as long as they don't interfere with someone's hunt. Public land is public land.
Quote from: sasquatch1 on March 22, 2025, 07:41:58 AMJoey, is that fishing spot a very limited draw WMA?
May be comparing apples to oranges.
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Of course not. I was being facetious. But you get the point. It would be a great idea for more of this revenue enhancement and resident appeasement.
Quote from: bbcoach on March 22, 2025, 07:58:14 AMQuote from: sasquatch1 on March 22, 2025, 07:44:20 AMMS could come up with an easy solution then BB,
Only those who draw the dates for the WMA can be on said WMA. Honestly I'd like that better myself I think.
I think ALOT of you are mixing this up with someone on an open National forest etc etc.
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Isn't WMA public land as is National Forest? If that's the case, a non licensed individual has the same rights and privileges to be on the land as anyone else whether they are hunting or not as long as they don't interfere with someone's hunt. Public land is public land.
Apparently not in ALL states. ::)
Did any long time poster on this forum not know how this thread was going to go? :TrainWreck1:
Yeah, Joey, but we love watching train wrecks
A WMA is state controlled.
Just like the game on it, under state regulations
Also, was Ted just nature walking or did he specifically go to take part in a hunt?
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Heck they don't allow you in the open National Forest either if you are assisting in a hunt. I didn't draw the non resident permit and couldn't assist my kids on youth hunt on open National forest
I made the post and everyone so far has been mostly respectful... Lots of good posts have been made about this topic / conversation and I don't see it as a train wreck at all.
Now if you want to take it down that rabbit hole i'm sure we can, lets not act crazy and cause drama while enjoying and sharing good honest opinions with other members about the law / laws and how we feel, its all about bring awareness to the new Law in Mississippi and other states that have similar,
To answer your question, I'm the long time poster who started this post and as long as we act like adults, I don't see it being a train wreck... NOW if you feel the need to make it a train wreck kind of post then just move on and don't post. People have a right to opinions as long as they are within the drama free zone of this forum and OG ...
Quote from: joey46 on March 22, 2025, 08:06:32 AMDid any long time poster on this forum not know how this thread was going to go? :TrainWreck1:
I don't see this as a Train Wreck, but I'll let Greg Chime in with his thoughts. IMO, this is about MS and other States Trampling on our 1st Amendment Constitutional Right. Why do we as citizens of the United States have to have a license to film or take pictures on any Public property? If they can get away with this with Hunters, then Birdwatchers, Nature Lovers and maybe your Cellular Cameras will be next in line. Everyone will need a LICENSE (TAX) to participate in any endeavor. This is why we fought England and started our own Union of States.
look at the number of views this post has already received almost 2000 so in my opinion that's really good. So everyone let's not let a few others try and make this a train wreck. We have shared some really good opinions and content / information... thank you for the ones who have shared DRAMA FREE content... It's all about making everyone aware of this law ....
Again I do appreciate it.... The long poster ...
...
Ark, I get that but kids have to be with a Licensed hunter.
I'm in the same boat as you, been hunting a specific forest for almost twenty years in a row have now been locked out until April.
Last year I just went to Florida, this year I joined several clubs to give me acreage to hunt.
It sucks, but the last thing I'll do is come to any THP defense
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Bb, he was not out filming the leaves
He Specifically went to partake in a Hunt! Otherwise he would not have been there and you know it.
He also did it for monetary gain, so he can shell out some for the ability to make money off the resource that was being HUNTED
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I'm most definitely not defending thp. Them and others have done irreparable damage to turkey hunters/hunting.
I am point out that the current system is broken in the south east when youth hunts take a hit. And youth hunts are have no bearing on populations. The harvest is biologically insignificant. It's just another tit for tat rule to restrict.
The whole south east needs an overhaul. And these states need to get on the same page. Heck when I worked at the Arkansas game and fish years ago we had coop meetings regularly
There's an old thread on here somewhere where it was alarming how many people supported not even having youth seasons at all.
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Quote from: Greg Massey on March 22, 2025, 08:48:25 AMI made the post and everyone so far has been mostly respectful... Lots of good posts have been made about this topic / conversation and I don't see it as a train wreck at all.
Now if you want to take it down that rabbit hole i'm sure we can, lets not act crazy and cause drama while enjoying and sharing good honest opinions with other members about the law / laws and how we feel, its all about bring awareness to the new Law in Mississippi and other states that have similar,
To answer your question, I'm the long time poster who started this post and as long as we act like adults, I don't see it being a train wreck... NOW if you feel the need to make it a train wreck kind of post then just move on and don't post. People have a right to opinions as long as they are within the drama free zone of this forum and OG ...
You knew exactly what you were going to get when you started it. Who's kidding who? Even the mention of THP sets some in a frenzy. It was inevitable.
Maybe some will be happy when there's no money for conservation, no lands to hunt unless you own, and or no game left to hunt or catch.
We all want things for free until there's nothing there.
Let's be real, most of us hunt public because there's a lot more land available to us for very cheap, a lot cheaper than trying to own, on top of overall having more game due to more land.
Most could likely at max own small acreage, good luck hunting turkeys on your 40 acres or whatever it may be.
I am fortunate enough to be able to afford a decent chuck of land in MS if I chose to want to spend the money there, and I still realize, 2-300 acres wouldn't provide me what I get out of the millions of acres of public land available to me.
Therefore that money sits there just trying to generate more money.
Things ain't cheap, go try and manage a 30k acre WMA and let me know if those WMA permit fees are enough for much more than maybe some bush hogged roads.
When people drive $60k vehicles with $2-4k e-bikes in the back to the national forest gates, I tend not to feel sorry that they may have to buy a license to go enjoy land they could never afford to own.
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Quote from: sasquatch1 on March 22, 2025, 12:22:10 PMMaybe some will be happy when there's no money for conservation, no lands to hunt unless you own, and or no game left to hunt or catch.
We all want things for free until there's nothing there.
Let's be real, most of us hunt public because there's a lot more land available to us for very cheap, a lot cheaper than trying to own, on top of overall having more game due to more land.
Most could likely at max own small acreage, good luck hunting turkeys on your 40 acres or whatever it may be.
I am fortunate enough to be able to afford a decent chuck of land in MS if I chose to want to spend the money there, and I still realize, 2-300 acres wouldn't provide me what I get out of the millions of acres of public land available to me.
Therefore that money sits there just trying to generate more money.
Things ain't cheap, go try and manage a 30k acre WMA and let me know if those WMA permit fees are enough for much more than maybe some bush hogged roads.
When people drive $60k vehicles with $2-4k e-bikes in the back to the national forest gates, I tend not to feel sorry that they may have to buy a license to go enjoy land they could never afford to own.
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Heck I bought a 300 + acre property in Kansas and they eliminated the non resident hunt own land turkey tag two years later . I have to draw in the lottery to hunt my own property (which I failed to draw). So buying property isn't safe at this point either. Now Kansas residents are trying to do away with the non resident hunt own land deer tags.
What I'm saying is as hunters we've got to find some ways to spread out the pressure. Our current trajectory of lost opportunity sucks big time.
I agree Ark. idk how to solve the deer as it's a bit diff. Everyone wants those giants that don't live everywhere
But turkeys are kind of season driven. I thing regional areas need to be more aligned on their openers but it can't be done without give and take
Also, funding to secure more public lands from turning into housing. But that takes money and we don't like paying
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Quote from: sasquatch1 on March 22, 2025, 07:44:20 AMMS could come up with an easy solution then BB,
Only those who draw the dates for the WMA can be on said WMA. Honestly I'd like that better myself I think.
I think ALOT of you are mixing this up with someone on an open National forest etc etc.
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I think that is exactly what they have done. Since the violator is a NON RESIDENT, it's draw only for NON RESIDENT for the 1st two weeks of the season in Mississippi. He can have a whole stack of licenses but if he did not draw he is in VIOLATION. He kept saying that he read the laws before season but he missed THAT PART!!! BOLD LETTERS. Must be a reading comprehension issue.
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To preface, I have no dog in this fight, but here is my take (again):
Okay, so I just went to the MS site to see what it says about having a "guest". Here is the exact quote I found:
"Guests
The drawn hunter may have one non-permitted, licensed guest 16 years of age or older. This guest is not allowed to harvest deer or turkey, but may participate in the hunt (i.e. calling, etc.).
YOUTH: For selected hunters 21 years old or older, one youth aged 15 years old or younger may accompany or hunt with the permitted adult hunter. The adult and youth combined harvest shall not exceed the permit bag limit."
If I was planning on being a guest (which I am not), I would look at that statement and my first inclination would be to call the agency and get a clarification on that. I am certain that their response would be that the statement means that the guest must have purchased a nonresident turkey license to participate.
Now, if I was stubborn and had lots of time and money, I might decide I was going to assume that a "licensed guest" meant I simply had to have some sort of "license" of any sort on my person. I would go along with the full intent to stir the pot and challenge the regulation if I was "caught" and ticketed. In my particular case, if I decided to do that (which I would not), I would do so just because of the wording of the regulation.
I would go before the "judge" in the case and say "Your honor, I thought the regulation meant that I only had to have a "license" of some sort to verify my identity. I would have thought the if I was required to have a hunting license, the regulation would have clearly (and simply} stated that for me to go along I had to have a "valid turkey hunting license". Don't you think that adding those three simple words "valid turkey hunting" would have cleared this entire thing up in the regulations?"
Now, he might have decided that I was a moron for not concluding that the regulation inferred those three words...but on the other hand, he might conclude that whoever wrote the regulation was more of a moron for not putting those three simple words in the statement. ...We would have to see which side he chose, I guess... ;D :angel9:
I knew when i first saw this posted that it would cause a stink and all the crybabies would show up. I was right again. Social media has ruined hunting as they post on social media.
I would assume "licensed" means hunting license IE small game general hunting type license. Is a turkey "permit" listed as a license there?
Most places list specific species as permits or tags not a license and your small game general hunting license as you license!
I have no dog in the fight either as I have no plans to ever hunt Mississippi public land, however traveling around to multiple states to hunt every year clear regs are important!
A state I hunt yearly changed their system twice in a few years, went to Walmart and purchased my tag/license and the system would not allow them to print it, cost me a morning hunt as I had to wait for game and fish to open on a Monday morning to get it straight!
They still took my money of course!
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Quote from: GobbleNut on March 23, 2025, 08:48:56 AMI would go before the "judge" in the case and say "Your honor, I thought the regulation meant that I only had to have a "license" of some sort to verify my identity.
I'd say you'd have a pretty good argument..it's all there in black and white
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 18, 2025, 10:08:18 PMQuote from: Guskie on March 18, 2025, 09:43:52 PMGN - that is how it is stated in the "Frequently Asked Questions" page. I hope it more clearly defined in state code.
I suspect that it is...and is probably pretty clear in the regs, as well. I only pointed it out because I have seen some pretty badly worded regulations over the years from agencies that should have known better. :)
Bear in mind these regulations are usually laws written by state legislatures. And all the committee changes and additions that go with them. The enforcing agencies don't always have a say in them.
Here in Ohio, the wildlife agency writes the rules/laws. They fall under a revised state code but the specific rule changes are promulgated by the wildlife agency and then adopted into law after our wildlife council approves them. I have no idea how other states do it, but here the legislatures have no part in writing wildlife laws.
Quote from: Mossyguy on March 23, 2025, 10:10:12 AM[quote author=GobbleNut link=msg=1217531 date=1742734136
I would go before the "judge" in the case and say "Your honor, I thought the regulation meant that I only had to have a "license" of some sort to verify my identity.
I'd say you'd have a pretty good argument..it's all there in black and white
[/quote]
Id say the judge would look at you like a moron playing games. That's the problem with the world, even the normal people like to play dumb, and there's a ton of lawyers standing ny to defend the stupidity.
Then later, we complain when laws are wrote up in lawyer language.
Quote from: sasquatch1 on March 24, 2025, 08:41:29 AMQuote from: Mossyguy on March 23, 2025, 10:10:12 AMQuote from: GobbleNut link=msg=url="tel:1217531"]1217531[/url] date=1742734136 (tel:1742734136)
Id say the judge would look at you like a moron playing games. That's the problem with the world, even the normal people like to play dumb, and there's a ton of lawyers standing ny to defend the stupidity.
If I were the judge I'd definitely look at the individual like a moron...but you never know..lol
I actually saw a court order today where the judge responded to the attorney "do you think I am an idiot". I do not think I would want to try that defense in court in case the judge was having a bad day as it might not go to well.
"But Your Honor, the internet told me this was a good defense!" :TooFunny:
The judge is not "judging" anyone, he is judging the law, well he is supposed to anyway!
The law, found under hunting regulations for a specific species draw hunt, should be EASILY understood to mean a license to hunt that species.
It's a damn shame so many people in the world truly enjoy and take pride in being or pretending to be incompetent
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Quote from: runngun on March 22, 2025, 11:57:03 PMQuote from: sasquatch1 on March 22, 2025, 07:44:20 AMMS could come up with an easy solution then BB,
Only those who draw the dates for the WMA can be on said WMA. Honestly I'd like that better myself I think.
I think ALOT of you are mixing this up with someone on an open National forest etc etc.
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I think that is exactly what they have done. Since the violator is a NON RESIDENT, it's draw only for NON RESIDENT for the 1st two weeks of the season in Mississippi
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Partially true..Non-residents have to apply for WMAs same as me (resident). The only difference being they have to apply for a general Natl Forest permit whereas I do not. I'd have to be licensed to accompany another hunter on a draw hunt just the same as a non-resident would.
They just said the fine was over $900 pretty steep compared to most tickets I've ever heard of.
Definitely a cash grab!
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I think the YouTubers grab more cash from the resource than the MDWFP
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They did all that they could do. They owned it and were honest about it. If they hadn't they would have been crucified for hiding it. People that don't like them will continue to not like them no matter what and people that do like them will defend them no matter what. In the meantime, we have run up 8 pages on social media mainly complaining about the damages of social media. Sometimes I can't figure out us hunters!
Quote from: sasquatch1 on March 31, 2025, 12:00:30 PMI think the YouTubers grab more cash from the resource than the MDWFP
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Yup. Remember when non residents could hunt Mississipi public land in March without drawing? Hard to put a price on that.
Fun fact: MDWFP doesn't receive any of the ticket money. It all goes to the county.
Cheaper than a lease......hmmm. For those of us that can't draw paying the ticket if caught might be the thing to do.
Quote from: deerhunt1988 on March 31, 2025, 02:35:42 PMQuote from: sasquatch1 on March 31, 2025, 12:00:30 PMI think the YouTubers grab more cash from the resource than the MDWF
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Yup. Remember when non residents could hunt Mississipi public land in March without drawing? Hard to put a price on that.
Yes I remember, and can put a price on it this year. My limit of 3 birds this year cost me $1133.00 per piece in leases to ensure I had ample ground to hunt.
I unsuccessfully applied for a NF early entry permit in Mississippi this year. I was VERY disappointed that Mississippi waited until March 4th to notify me of my loserness! When the season opened on the 15th.
While applying, I read the regs to the best of my understanding for Mississippi.
THP or anyone else filming a hunt needs a license (Participating in a hunt). Just the same as an adult with a youth.
You are reading this in the turkey regulations. It is IMPLIED to be a turkey license. That you can buy at anytime, wether drawn or not!
You, as a nonres can pay 20K to try and beat this ticket if you wish, because I feel your going to need a very talented lawyer. Or, pay the 500$ fine, lick your wounds and do better at reading comprehension. If you go to court in Mississippi for this, you will lose.
Again, you don't need a permit to buy a license. You need a permit for NF early entry and or WMA quota hunts. Two separate items.
WMA and NF are, as in most states, treated as different properties. Typically they are. One is US owned, one is state owned. The state can control a lot more on the WMA than the NF lands. They can and do impose their own regulations on a WMA.
Ive done some asking around here in Illinois. Under the stated circumstances the person running the camera would need a hunting license but not a turkey permit here in Illinois.
Nearly all of Mississippi wmas are National Forest lands.
I wonder what kind of money those video guys make?
The fine was over 900 bucks! A little excessive I would think.Ouch wont do that again.
So now you need a license to video tape stuff in the woods. I tHoUgHt ThIs WuZ aMeRiCa
Quote from: Old Timer on Today at 10:50:33 AMThe fine was over 900 bucks! A little excessive I would think.Ouch wont do that again.
Seems a bit much to me, as well. I think they (whoever "they" is/are) were using the THP guys as the poster boys on this and hit them hard as a warning about the rule and how it will be enforced. I think "they" figured the well-known YouTube clan could take the hit without worrying about the amount.
Problem is, now they have set the price on the fine and the "poor dudes" who hunt (and may also overlook the rule) are gonna get clobbered by this fine amount. Not saying it is right or wrong. ...But I will say that I don't think we have heard the last of this. ...We'll see...
Yes _ heaven help grandpa taking a picture of his grandson's first hunt. This now almost sounds like a setup. If MS intent is to discourage non-res they have succeeded. Plenty of other states have the Eastern sub-species.
I'm in for $25 on their Go Fund Me page.
Quote from: arkrem870 on March 31, 2025, 10:38:04 PMNearly all of Mississippi wmas are National Forest lands.
This is to a DEGREE what I was saying in my spin off thread asking about WMA's. Most are saying they are STATE owned! How can the STATE say they own FEDERAL land??? And how can they convert them to WMAs, since they are Federal PUBLIC property? Who is allowing this to happen? It seems Mississippi is selling you guys a load of Goods, if this in fact true.
There is no real difference. Simply a revenue enhancement scheme brought on by resident whining.
Think I'm going to swamp every duck boat with Mississippi tags this year in the refuge for pay back. They flock to Arkansas by the thousands and then they piss on us in return. They don't know what pressure is until they come hunt my states public green timber for mallards.
Quote from: mountainhunter1 on Today at 01:17:27 PMWhether in the spring or in the fall during deer or turkey season, it is a regular thing to see NON HUNTERS (Family or friends, etc.) flock to the scene on public right after the kill to celebrate after a person kills their first or maybe their all time best, etc. This being true, it would seem that a lot of folks may be getting a ticket in similar fashion going forward in certain states.
I am all for laws, but let's set this matter aside for a moment. I personally think a person should be able to go and watch a hunt or something if they are not calling for them, etc. and not be required to have a license to do so. Maybe a grandfather wants to go sit with his grandson, and maybe said grandfather has not ever even killed a turkey personally in his whole life. Maybe a hunter is disabled, and a person goes with them just to be sure they make it back to the truck and maybe that person tagging along is not even a hunter in any form or fashion.
They let hikers, nature lovers and campers run all over the place on the same lands with no license - so what is the difference?
There is no real difference. Simply a revenue enhancement scheme brought on by resident whining.
I know many of you are glad to see THP and other internet posters getting their JUST rewards, but I believe many STATES are infringing on OUR 250 year old plus 1st Amendment Rights with their Rules. Anybody should be allowed to film in public without being harassed or ticketed PERIOD. No gun, No ammo just a video camera does not constitute Hunting IMO. If this stands, NO ONE in the woods with a cell phone is SAFE with this law. With this law in place, STATES are infringing on everyone's RIGHTS and are picking your wallet clean.
Quote from: joey46 on Today at 01:06:44 PMYes _ heaven help grandpa taking a picture of his grandson's first hunt. This now almost sounds like a setup. If MS intent is to discourage non-res they have succeeded. Plenty of other states have the Eastern sub-species.
I'm in for $25 on their Go Fund Me page.
Looks like Mississippi is coming out with a turkey stamp next year. $10 for res and $100 for non-res. Wow.
https://magnoliatribune.com/2025/03/26/wild-turkey-stamp-signed-into-law/