So it finally happened. Winchester has entered the market with TSS.
Blue Collar Outdoors already posted a few videos.
My guess they'll sell fast.
Good luck everyone 🍀
Don't miss at $14 bucks a shell. :turkey2:
I'll keep shooting Foxtrot. Probably a good shell but.
Probably advertising 100 yard shots.
Quote from: Gooserbat on January 25, 2025, 05:37:20 PMI'll keep shooting Foxtrot. Probably a good shell but.
Great ammo for sure!
If you guys have to shoot TSS, several of the guys on this site say that Herters TSS patterns really well at a considerable savings per shell.
I'll stick to Apex Mossy Oak Blends in 20 & 28 gauge and Viper #10's in my 410. I have enough of all three to last me a few years.
Quote from: bbcoach on January 25, 2025, 06:07:02 PMIf you guys have to shoot TSS, several of the guys on this site say that Herters TSS patterns really well at a considerable savings per shell.
For 20 ga 3" shells they are $50 for 5 and they are a 1-1/2 oz load so not much a savings when compared to Apex.
Quote from: davisd9 on January 25, 2025, 05:49:05 PMProbably advertising 100 yard shots.
Davisd9, If I remember correctly, when the Winchester XR's first came out they were advertised as 60 yarders, so you are probably spot on. Not in my gun though.
Quote from: bbcoach on January 25, 2025, 07:24:38 PMQuote from: davisd9 on January 25, 2025, 05:49:05 PMProbably advertising 100 yard shots.
Davisd9, If I remember correctly, when the Winchester XR's first came out they were advertised as 60 yarders, so you are probably spot on. Not in my gun though.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250126/e76f04280e9e936adc2de77f4965e838.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Adding shame to our GAME. AIN'T NOTHING TO BE PROUD OF OR BRAG ABOUT.
Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk
:newmascot:
TSS is a game changer.
I've been shooting Nitro Ammunition Company heavyshot 4x5x7 for 20 years.
I'll try a little TSS.
Of course we keep it 40 and in...
Good luck everyone
Quote from: runngun on January 25, 2025, 10:57:07 PMAdding shame to our GAME. AIN'T NOTHING TO BE PROUD OF OR BRAG ABOUT.
Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk
They say a .22 can travel a mile, but thats not the intended use. It's a marketing thing. We all know what the line is. Follow your conscience. Z
We got ourselves the makings of a "Instagram turkey killa startup kit"
1 Box of tss ammo with two clowns faces on it
2 flat bill cap
3 ya' daddy's shotgun
4 a Instagram account
5 ..is optional ..if you have a pickup truck with a "Carolina squat" suspension kit ..and or l.e.d. colored lightning under the frame ... you are now a bonafide "killa"
Here we go again , looks like the boardroom executives with zero insight into what is responsible for the long-term well being of wildturkeys ..has thrown caution to the wind ...and have signed a BIG dollar advertisement campaign ..these guys simply can't resist on blatantly making ridiculous long shot claims
"66 yards and that's where I dropped him " I can imagine the tens of thousands of dummies with zero inkling on how to properly set up a turkey gun , or even operate a turkey call beyond the "sounding like a chimpanzee stage " ..dropping cash like drunk servicemen in port. .. thinking they can just buy that ammo alone ...and now drop gobblers at that ridiculous range ...
Quote from: Old Gobbler on January 28, 2025, 12:58:31 AMWe got ourselves the makings of a "Instagram turkey killa startup kit"
1 Box of tss ammo with two clowns faces on it
2 flat bill cap
3 ya' daddy's shotgun
4 a Instagram account
5 ..is optional ..if you have a pickup truck with a "Carolina squat" suspension kit ..and or l.e.d. colored lightning under the frame ... you are now a bonafide "killa"
Here we go again , looks like the boardroom executives with zero insight into what is responsible for the long-term well being of wildturkeys ..has thrown caution to the wind ...and have signed a BIG dollar advertisement campaign ..these guys simply can't resist on blatantly making ridiculous long shot claims
"66 yards and that's where I dropped him " I can imagine the tens of thousands of dummies with zero inkling on how to properly set up a turkey gun , or even operate a turkey call beyond the "sounding like a chimpanzee stage " ..dropping cash like drunk servicemen in port. .. thinking they can just buy that ammo alone ...and now drop gobblers at that ridiculous range ...
This is dead on, is the industry going "too far" with this TSS blitz. I was in my local sport shop last week and chatted about turkeys with one of the sales guys. He told me he just got into turkey hunting and harvested 3 birds last year. I congratulated him. He proceeded to tell me that he shot one at 84 yards. He thought it was closer, but it ended up to be for real. He continued to say his 12 gauge has a great pattern with TSS, and is capable of these long range shots. I told him my range is 35 yards in. He asked me if I use TSS, I said depends on which Gun I take. I avoid controversy, so I decided to steer the conversation away from debate. I am sure there are too many hunters seeing adds like Winchesters 66 yard claim. There is range line of demarcation in the turkey woods that is being stretched too far in my opinion. Harvesting turkeys (or attempting too) at these ridiculous ranges in my opinion will lead to wounded/crippled birds. It's unfortunate that the newer hunters jump right in to this new gun/shot technology and never experienced the early years of fixed chokes and lead shells. My early years using the older technology calling the birds in close is the reason why I fell in love with this sport. It's the close-up encounter I enjoy, seeing him blink his eye as he struts in to my barrel. The new technology I employ just assures me a crisp, clean harvest. I like our forums policy of "No more than 40". Be safe, we will be out there soon!
Shannon and Tom are SPOT ON in MY book! BIGGER isn't always better. Companies (advertising) will have us believe killing at GREATER distance is the PINNICLE of this sport. Winchester ammo is a PRIME example with the Longbeard XR (Xtended range) and now jumping into TSS. It's advertising hype and the ALL-mighty dollar running this Train. For you guys running the sub gauges, the technology of TSS has brought the 20, 28 and .410 into Plain view for turkey hunting and is Great IMO. Let's try to educate, that distance in turkey hunting isn't a Good thing in many ways. But being able to call that bird to the end of your gun barrel and hear that thunderous gobble at 20 yards is the PINNICLE of this sport! IMO it isn't about the number of turkeys I kill or the distance I kill them (BRAGGING RIGHTS) but the HEART POUNDING EXCITEMENT that I see and hear at CLOSE range. :z-twocents:
I have an older than me friend (81 years old) that hunts with #7.5 chilled shot that he reloads himself using spent Wagner double 10 shooting match cases. He gathered up a big load of those hulls years ago and loaded them for crow hunting. His gun is an old Browning Citori with M & F chokes and he has no trouble killing gobblers. But then again, he's 81 and skill and patience is on his side. LOL
Bragging about not calling birds into ethical gun range is asinine. Be smarter than the hype around any product. Most people that would not be embarrassed about bragging about a ridiculous shot, are not on this site or part of our community. We can't fix all the yahoos out there, but we can choose to not be one of them. Z
I shoot TSS out of my 20 because of the pattern density it provides...and that's the only reason. I've never patterned my gun past 40 as I will never shoot one that far and I've yet to shoot a bird past 35.
The reason I bow hunt deer is because I want to see how close I can get before I let an arrow fly. Turkeys are the same way...there's absolutely nothing exciting about shoot one past 40 yards. If I can't get him any closer than that then he has won that round and we play again another day.
As the old saying goes "It's not whether you win or lose..it's how you play the game.
What is ethical gun range and who establishes that?
Wouldn't the ethical range of a gun be determined by the capability of the load, and therefore each load has a different ethical range?
The 40 yard threshold was originally agreed-upon because of that was the limit where lead shot energy and pattern density both gave out.
The game has changed like it or not. Just because you don't want to shoot farther than you did in the 80s doesn't mean it's unethical. You can choose a different word for it but it has nothing to do with ethics.
Eth·ics
1.
moral principles that govern a person's behavior or the conducting of an activity:
2.
the branch of knowledge that deals with moral principles:
Here is a GREAT definition of ethics. Being ethical in Anything is about doing the RIGHT thing morally. Setting Standards and LIMITATIONS based on a set of Values. As turkey hunters, we have the technology, equipment and ability to shoot at GREAT distances (I won't elaborate because it isn't morally or ethical right). What I will say is each of us have morals and standards that we live by. We grew up with mentors that taught us their morals, values and standards and for the most part we live our lives by those standards. Turkey hunting isn't any different. Let's educate those that we MENTOR that experiencing a THUNDEROUS GROUND SHAKING gobble at 10 to 20 yards is entirely different than at the KNOWN limits of our equipment and technology and then bragging about the distance of that kill. For me and those that I mentor, Killing and Bragging rights won't ever be the Primary objective of this Great sport, it's the In-Your-Face, Up-close and Personal Excitement it provides. :z-twocents:
There are factors that affect projectiles that a lot of people ignore. Let's look a compound or crossbow arrows. We all know that the modern crossbows are capable of shooting one inch groups at yardages out near 100. I crossbow hunt every fall, and pretty much employ my 35 yard rule when shooting at a deer in the big woods. The reason for my decision here is in the big woods, there are branches or saplings you just don't see shooting beyond 40 yards. Deflection levels increase significantly the further out you shoot. I am buy no means comparing this to turkey loads, but how many people pattern their guns out in the woods in "brushy" conditions similar to the environment that they actually hunt? Let's face it, there could be pellet deflection or pattern failure depending on the path of the shot in woods under hunting conditions. I feel comfortable with my turkey optics that I pick up most obstacles as my bird approaches allowing me to have a cleaner chance of a crisp kill. This is just what I do. It is my hunting style, doesn't make it right for all, but it is right for me. Wounding one of these majestic birds is the last thing I want to do when I leave the woods every spring. Be safe...
I just enjoy playing the game with gobblers and using my calls to convince him to come to me. That's why I practice with my calls pretty much year round. Regardless of the shells my kill zone depending on the terrain is 0 / 40 yards. My sweet spot is 20 / 25 ... I'm definitely not going to let advertising on a box of shells try and convince me to shoot beyond the ethical range of my guns. 12,20,28,410 ... My ethical range is less than 40 yards. I like looking eye to eye with my gobbler..LOL
As others have said, getting to hear that daybreak gobbler is game on and nothing better. The excitement is heart pounding and hair raising on the back of my neck...
The morality of the 40 yard limit was based off the capabilities of guns, loads and chokes derived from testing 40-50-60 years ago.
Loads were not capable of killing reliably beyond that distance, and so it was established as the "ethical" range.
Why did the old timers shoot 4's, buy 10 gauge guns, go to 3.5" shells, develop chokes and send their barrels away to Bansner.......that's right to try to push that range even farther.
TSS is the easy button.
It's probably not ethical to shoot at a gobbler past 25 yards with a .410 and lead, but it's ethically a 40 yard gun all day long with Tungsten.
So again, is the limit of ethics in the distance to target or in the capability of the weapon/load?
I haven't shot a bird past that mythical magic distance in a few years, most I set up to kill in the 30 yard range very purposely, but I'm 100% positive I can ethically kill them quite a few steps beyond the long ago established limit of turkey guns.
All great thoughts here. My final thought on "Ethical Range" is an individuals decision on how far they want to shoot to harvest a turkey. We as sportsman can only hope that the shots turkey hunters take lead to clean kills. We all owe this to any quarry we pursue.
Quote from: Gobble! on January 25, 2025, 09:22:14 PMQuote from: bbcoach on January 25, 2025, 07:24:38 PMQuote from: davisd9 on January 25, 2025, 05:49:05 PMProbably advertising 100 yard shots.
Davisd9, If I remember correctly, when the Winchester XR's first came out they were advertised as 60 yarders, so you are probably spot on. Not in my gun though.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250126/e76f04280e9e936adc2de77f4965e838.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Disgusting.
When did the mindset go to shooting them in the head/neck? The reason I ask is I have an old book bout turkey hunting in which the author talks about using a 10 gauge double barrel and large shot..I think it was 2's and 3's. He took body shots as well as head shots at really long distances. I think he was hitting the birds with only a couple of shot but I guess with those large ones; you only need a couple. He talked about the big shot breaking bone and preventing them from flying away.
Before y'all roast me..when I first hunted in 1982, I was taught to shoot them in the face and that is what I have done and believe in. I was just curious about when the opinion changed or if that guy was the only one to think that way.
I'll say this about your Play on Words on "ethical range", JUST BECAUSE my equipment can put 5 or 6 pellets in the head and neck of a turkey sized PAPER target at a GREAT distance doesn't make it a KILLA. Our mentors have instilled in us their wisdom, knowledge and standards about what is Factual not Probable and morally and ethically we need to HONOR those individuals. If we Honor and Teach the 40 and under rule, then there is a little wiggle room for a distance estimation error. In my Old age, I want them in tight so I can See, Feel, Hear and Enjoy the Splendor of this Majestic Bird. If they don't get inside that 40 and under distance, then we will have to make a date to Play another day.
I am also Ethically Honoring the Standards of the Administrators of this GREAT site by following their Rules (which I totally agree with)
3) Thou shall watch what they say publicly - pertaining to extended shots -No public over 40-yard talk.
4) Thou shall not talk of stupid shots
5) Thou shall not act like a "internet hero"
Kind of getting off of the topic a bit but here we are...
Quite honestly, it is a moot point to discuss what is ethical and what is not. Each of us chooses the ethical standards we want to hunt by, whether it be turkeys or anything else. For instance, whether we agree with it or not, some folks are just peachy-keen with shooting turkeys with rifles...and some states allow it. Personally, I don't understand the desire to hunt turkeys that way. but it is what it is.
The same holds true for the guy who is sets up his gun where he can kill turkeys at ranges that many of us might find unacceptable. Again, it is what it is.
Here is my concern: We have discussed the declines in turkey hunting opportunity ad nauseum here on OG. At least some of that decline is due to our increasing ability to kill gobblers with weapons and tactics that were not even imagined way back when turkey hunting...and especially spring gobbler hunting...became "a thing".
Gobblers that were safe when staying more than about forty yards away a few decades ago are now being mowed down at alarming rates because of such things as strutter decoys, fanning, and now...shotguns, chokes, and loads that will kill turkeys well beyond ranges that were considered acceptable back then.
The bottom line is that, as more folks turkey hunt and are willing to use methods...and shoot turkeys at ranges that at one time were unimagined...we are all going to suffer with the impacts of that. Those impacts are less hunting opportunity and less quality of turkey hunting across the board.
Sure, we all want to (justifiably) blame other stuff like "social media" for why the above is happening but, in reality, each of us needs to look right smack dab in the closest mirror and admit that we might individually be part of the problem due to what each of us finds acceptable in how each of us chooses to hunt.
Quote from: GobbleNut on January 30, 2025, 09:19:30 AMKind of getting off of the topic a bit but here we are...
Quite honestly, it is a moot point to discuss what is ethical and what is not. Each of us chooses the ethical standards we want to hunt by, whether it be turkeys or anything else. For instance, whether we agree with it or not, some folks are just peachy-keen with shooting turkeys with rifles...and some states allow it. Personally, I don't understand the desire to hunt turkeys that way. but it is what it is.
The same holds true for the guy who is sets up his gun where he can kill turkeys at ranges that many of us might find unacceptable. Again, it is what it is.
Here is my concern: We have discussed the declines in turkey hunting opportunity ad nauseum here on OG. At least some of that decline is due to our increasing ability to kill gobblers with weapons and tactics that were not even imagined way back when turkey hunting...and especially spring gobbler hunting...became "a thing".
Gobblers that were safe when staying more than about forty yards away a few decades ago are now being mowed down at alarming rates because of such things as strutter decoys, fanning, and now...shotguns, chokes, and loads that will kill turkeys well beyond ranges that were considered acceptable back then.
The bottom line is that, as more folks turkey hunt and are willing to use methods...and shoot turkeys at ranges that at one time were unimagined...we are all going to suffer with the impacts of that. Those impacts are less hunting opportunity and less quality of turkey hunting across the board.
Sure, we all want to (justifiably) blame other stuff like "social media" for why the above is happening but, in reality, each of us needs to look right smack dab in the closest mirror and admit that we might individually be part of the problem due to what each of us finds acceptable in how each of us chooses to hunt.
This unfortunately is a reality. Well said my friend. We are all the "Gatekeepers" in this great sport we love, basically our destiny in the turkey woods is in our hands....
I agree with everyone, nothing wrong with bringing awareness to hunting gobblers going forward.
Some great posts....
Quote from: GobbleNut on January 30, 2025, 09:19:30 AMKind of getting off of the topic a bit but here we are...
Quite honestly, it is a moot point to discuss what is ethical and what is not. Each of us chooses the ethical standards we want to hunt by, whether it be turkeys or anything else. For instance, whether we agree with it or not, some folks are just peachy-keen with shooting turkeys with rifles...and some states allow it. Personally, I don't understand the desire to hunt turkeys that way. but it is what it is.
The same holds true for the guy who is sets up his gun where he can kill turkeys at ranges that many of us might find unacceptable. Again, it is what it is.
Here is my concern: We have discussed the declines in turkey hunting opportunity ad nauseum here on OG. At least some of that decline is due to our increasing ability to kill gobblers with weapons and tactics that were not even imagined way back when turkey hunting...and especially spring gobbler hunting...became "a thing".
Gobblers that were safe when staying more than about forty yards away a few decades ago are now being mowed down at alarming rates because of such things as strutter decoys, fanning, and now...shotguns, chokes, and loads that will kill turkeys well beyond ranges that were considered acceptable back then.
The bottom line is that, as more folks turkey hunt and are willing to use methods...and shoot turkeys at ranges that at one time were unimagined...we are all going to suffer with the impacts of that. Those impacts are less hunting opportunity and less quality of turkey hunting across the board.
Sure, we all want to (justifiably) blame other stuff like "social media" for why the above is happening but, in reality, each of us needs to look right smack dab in the closest mirror and admit that we might individually be part of the problem due to what each of us finds acceptable in how each of us chooses to hunt.
I can agree with all of this. In the world in which I operate. Killing a turkey is secondary to hunting a turkey. The game means more than the score.
Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
I called one in last year to about 8 yards. I shot and blew his head clean off of his neck. For me I did not like that and would have preferred to have shot it at 20 to 30 yards. I will not take another shot that close ever again.
Quote from: GobbleNut on January 30, 2025, 09:19:30 AMKind of getting off of the topic a bit but here we are...
Quite honestly, it is a moot point to discuss what is ethical and what is not. Each of us chooses the ethical standards we want to hunt by, whether it be turkeys or anything else. For instance, whether we agree with it or not, some folks are just peachy-keen with shooting turkeys with rifles...and some states allow it. Personally, I don't understand the desire to hunt turkeys that way. but it is what it is.
The same holds true for the guy who is sets up his gun where he can kill turkeys at ranges that many of us might find unacceptable. Again, it is what it is.
Here is my concern: We have discussed the declines in turkey hunting opportunity ad nauseum here on OG. At least some of that decline is due to our increasing ability to kill gobblers with weapons and tactics that were not even imagined way back when turkey hunting...and especially spring gobbler hunting...became "a thing".
Gobblers that were safe when staying more than about forty yards away a few decades ago are now being mowed down at alarming rates because of such things as strutter decoys, fanning, and now...shotguns, chokes, and loads that will kill turkeys well beyond ranges that were considered acceptable back then.
The bottom line is that, as more folks turkey hunt and are willing to use methods...and shoot turkeys at ranges that at one time were unimagined...we are all going to suffer with the impacts of that. Those impacts are less hunting opportunity and less quality of turkey hunting across the board.
Sure, we all want to (justifiably) blame other stuff like "social media" for why the above is happening but, in reality, each of us needs to look right smack dab in the closest mirror and admit that we might individually be part of the problem due to what each of us finds acceptable in how each of us chooses to hunt.
I've contemplated this for quite a while now and have concluded that I believe TSS loads are actually GOOD for the population of gobblers on the landscape. We are about as close as you'll ever get to a perfect ratio of shots : dead gobblers at a 1:1 ratio.
20-30 years ago I'd hear tales all season long about guys "rolling" birds where they shot and knocked them down, but the bird recovered and got away. Some guys almost would make bragging rights out of it, "Rolled another one this morning!"
I much prefer a Bang-Flop to Bang-Bang-Bang-Flop.
I believe LESS gobblers are being killed with more guys using TSS because they are shooting at 2 birds a year and killing 2 birds a year........instead of shooting at 4-6 birds a year and getting 2 of them in their hand.
Shoot TSS, Save a Turkey!
Remember, hens make more gobblers. Save the hens. Our destiny is in our hens, not our hands!
Strongly agree. Always cringe when anyone says "clean miss" when a bird runs off. Betting that bird is carrying a few souvenirs. Much better to hit one hard with TSS from a well patterned gun at reasonable range. :OGturkeyhead:
Quote from: Number17 on January 31, 2025, 06:36:57 PMI've contemplated this for quite a while now and have concluded that I believe TSS loads are actually GOOD for the population of gobblers on the landscape. We are about as close as you'll ever get to a perfect ratio of shots : dead gobblers at a 1:1 ratio.
20-30 years ago I'd hear tales all season long about guys "rolling" birds where they shot and knocked them down, but the bird recovered and got away. Some guys almost would make bragging rights out of it, "Rolled another one this morning!"
I much prefer a Bang-Flop to Bang-Bang-Bang-Flop.
I believe LESS gobblers are being killed with more guys using TSS because they are shooting at 2 birds a year and killing 2 birds a year........instead of shooting at 4-6 birds a year and getting 2 of them in their hand.
Shoot TSS, Save a Turkey!
Remember, hens make more gobblers. Save the hens. Our destiny is in our hens, not our hands!
I concur, TSS is likely more consistently lethal at ranges out to 40 yards. Also probably busts through vegetation better than lead on its way there.
But your point of bang-flop...unethical marketing like Winchester's deliberately misinforms casual hunters that they can shoot at distances way too far. Distances where the front bead literally covers the bird. Even TSS, at those unethical ranges, is back to bang-bang-bang-roll, the squeeze and hope guys who think they're turkey hunters shooting birds at stupid ranges.
All good points here, my takeaway is that we need to be responsible and not buy into the " facts". I have no doubt that the vendor isn't lying, just giving the outer limits of the product. This is where we have to be smarter than the advertising. Good ammo/choke/gun combinations and good old fashioned practice is our responsibility. I truly believe that the people on this site are smart enough to do the ethical thing. Good luck and God bless. Z
Years ago there was guy who always thought it was ridiculous that I had a scope on my 870. Always making fun of it and saying "Why do you need a scope on a shotgun?"
He just happened to be at the range one day with his new 835 3.5" Ultimag wincing at every shot and flinching badly. He was complaining that his gun wouldn't even hit the target. I said "It's because you're flinching so bad." So he tells me to shoot it.
That gun kicked like a mule on crack and only put a few pellets on the paper. We finally figured out his gun was patterning about 24" high and I joke with him about putting a scope on it. He said "No way!"
Ran into him mid season on some gamelands and asked about his gun. He said "I just have to aim at their feet to hit them in the head." He was dead serious. Told me he "rolled" 6-7 birds so far.
Those kind of people and that type of attitude will always be the worst thing about our sport.
Quote from: GobbleNut on January 30, 2025, 09:19:30 AMKind of getting off of the topic a bit but here we are...
Quite honestly, it is a moot point to discuss what is ethical and what is not. Each of us chooses the ethical standards we want to hunt by, whether it be turkeys or anything else. For instance, whether we agree with it or not, some folks are just peachy-keen with shooting turkeys with rifles...and some states allow it. Personally, I don't understand the desire to hunt turkeys that way. but it is what it is.
The same holds true for the guy who is sets up his gun where he can kill turkeys at ranges that many of us might find unacceptable. Again, it is what it is.
Here is my concern: We have discussed the declines in turkey hunting opportunity ad nauseum here on OG. At least some of that decline is due to our increasing ability to kill gobblers with weapons and tactics that were not even imagined way back when turkey hunting...and especially spring gobbler hunting...became "a thing".
Gobblers that were safe when staying more than about forty yards away a few decades ago are now being mowed down at alarming rates because of such things as strutter decoys, fanning, and now...shotguns, chokes, and loads that will kill turkeys well beyond ranges that were considered acceptable back then.
The bottom line is that, as more folks turkey hunt and are willing to use methods...and shoot turkeys at ranges that at one time were unimagined...we are all going to suffer with the impacts of that. Those impacts are less hunting opportunity and less quality of turkey hunting across the board.
Sure, we all want to (justifiably) blame other stuff like "social media" for why the above is happening but, in reality, each of us needs to look right smack dab in the closest mirror and admit that we might individually be part of the problem due to what each of us finds acceptable in how each of us chooses to hunt.
Really? Didn't they hunt turkeys pretty much to extinction. Think their methods were plenty effective.
20 gauge now available. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250203/3102b48732224ebc97fe408281c89b96.jpg)
Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk
Does anyone honestly think the average hunter will actually pattern these $12+ shells? Of course not.
On a side note. Walmart had the Long Beard XR NWTF edition on Clearance for $15 dollars a box. I've never seen turkey ammo on clearance before the season started.
Good luck everyone.
Probably because whoever makes the choice of when to put stuff on clearance has no idea when turkey season is. Probably only knows that "hunting season" just closed.
Quote from: Clif Owen on March 06, 2025, 07:01:29 PMProbably because whoever makes the choice of when to put stuff on clearance has no idea when turkey season is. Probably only knows that "hunting season" just closed.
Our local Walmart Just packed up deer stuff. Had 🦃 stuff on the shelf last 3 weeks. As soon as the ammo hit. I picked up a box for $19 3", $21 3.5" XR. This week the NWTF box went on clearance. All the other XR and Federal TSS regular price. I'll check back every week if they mark the 3.5" down I'll pick them up to. I've got friends that shoot this ammo. So I'll get it for them.
Quote from: GobbleNut on January 30, 2025, 09:19:30 AMKind of getting off of the topic a bit but here we are...
Quite honestly, it is a moot point to discuss what is ethical and what is not. Each of us chooses the ethical standards we want to hunt by, whether it be turkeys or anything else. For instance, whether we agree with it or not, some folks are just peachy-keen with shooting turkeys with rifles...and some states allow it. Personally, I don't understand the desire to hunt turkeys that way. but it is what it is.
The same holds true for the guy who is sets up his gun where he can kill turkeys at ranges that many of us might find unacceptable. Again, it is what it is.
Here is my concern: We have discussed the declines in turkey hunting opportunity ad nauseum here on OG. At least some of that decline is due to our increasing ability to kill gobblers with weapons and tactics that were not even imagined way back when turkey hunting...and especially spring gobbler hunting...became "a thing".
Gobblers that were safe when staying more than about forty yards away a few decades ago are now being mowed down at alarming rates because of such things as strutter decoys, fanning, and now...shotguns, chokes, and loads that will kill turkeys well beyond ranges that were considered acceptable back then.
The bottom line is that, as more folks turkey hunt and are willing to use methods...and shoot turkeys at ranges that at one time were unimagined...we are all going to suffer with the impacts of that. Those impacts are less hunting opportunity and less quality of turkey hunting across the board.
Sure, we all want to (justifiably) blame other stuff like "social media" for why the above is happening but, in reality, each of us needs to look right smack dab in the closest mirror and admit that we might individually be part of the problem due to what each of us finds acceptable in how each of us chooses to hunt.
very true...... the birds that used to make it .... They don't make it anymore . The ole we don't see field birds anymore .... Imagine why.... They dead . It's inevitable . Prepare for less opportunistic futures , it's coming .
Quote from: Number17 on January 31, 2025, 06:36:57 PMQuote from: GobbleNut on January 30, 2025, 09:19:30 AMKind of getting off of the topic a bit but here we are...
Quite honestly, it is a moot point to discuss what is ethical and what is not. Each of us chooses the ethical standards we want to hunt by, whether it be turkeys or anything else. For instance, whether we agree with it or not, some folks are just peachy-keen with shooting turkeys with rifles...and some states allow it. Personally, I don't understand the desire to hunt turkeys that way. but it is what it is.
The same holds true for the guy who is sets up his gun where he can kill turkeys at ranges that many of us might find unacceptable. Again, it is what it is.
Here is my concern: We have discussed the declines in turkey hunting opportunity ad nauseum here on OG. At least some of that decline is due to our increasing ability to kill gobblers with weapons and tactics that were not even imagined way back when turkey hunting...and especially spring gobbler hunting...became "a thing".
Gobblers that were safe when staying more than about forty yards away a few decades ago are now being mowed down at alarming rates because of such things as strutter decoys, fanning, and now...shotguns, chokes, and loads that will kill turkeys well beyond ranges that were considered acceptable back then.
The bottom line is that, as more folks turkey hunt and are willing to use methods...and shoot turkeys at ranges that at one time were unimagined...we are all going to suffer with the impacts of that. Those impacts are less hunting opportunity and less quality of turkey hunting across the board.
Sure, we all want to (justifiably) blame other stuff like "social media" for why the above is happening but, in reality, each of us needs to look right smack dab in the closest mirror and admit that we might individually be part of the problem due to what each of us finds acceptable in how each of us chooses to hunt.
I've contemplated this for quite a while now and have concluded that I believe TSS loads are actually GOOD for the population of gobblers on the landscape. We are about as close as you'll ever get to a perfect ratio of shots : dead gobblers at a 1:1 ratio.
20-30 years ago I'd hear tales all season long about guys "rolling" birds where they shot and knocked them down, but the bird recovered and got away. Some guys almost would make bragging rights out of it, "Rolled another one this morning!"
I much prefer a Bang-Flop to Bang-Bang-Bang-Flop.
I believe LESS gobblers are being killed with more guys using TSS because they are shooting at 2 birds a year and killing 2 birds a year........instead of shooting at 4-6 birds a year and getting 2 of them in their hand.
Shoot TSS, Save a Turkey!
Remember, hens make more gobblers. Save the hens. Our destiny is in our hens, not our hands!
Very true on all points.
Anybody shot these yet? I was about to order a box of Apex and see these new Longbeards are only $1 more. The Apex is advertised at 1175fps and Longbeards are 1100 fps.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quite a few patterns on YouTube already.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: aclawrence on March 11, 2025, 08:40:15 AMAnybody shot these yet? I was about to order a box of Apex and see these new Longbeards are only $1 more. The Apex is advertised at 1175fps and Longbeards are 1100 fps.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
yes I posted a pic of 12 guage 9s on the 12g thread and tss thread . They did well. Better than much of the comp
Quote from: bbcoach on January 28, 2025, 07:53:18 AMShannon and Tom are SPOT ON in MY book! BIGGER isn't always better. Companies (advertising) will have us believe killing at GREATER distance is the PINNICLE of this sport. Winchester ammo is a PRIME example with the Longbeard XR (Xtended range) and now jumping into TSS. It's advertising hype and the ALL-mighty dollar running this Train. For you guys running the sub gauges, the technology of TSS has brought the 20, 28 and .410 into Plain view for turkey hunting and is Great IMO. Let's try to educate, that distance in turkey hunting isn't a Good thing in many ways. But being able to call that bird to the end of your gun barrel and hear that thunderous gobble at 20 yards is the PINNICLE of this sport! IMO it isn't about the number of turkeys I kill or the distance I kill them (BRAGGING RIGHTS) but the HEART POUNDING EXCITEMENT that I see and hear at CLOSE range. :z-twocents:
I just chuckled. Need to see me when I just hear one gobble on the roost. Been chasing them 20 yrs and it still gets me lol.
Yes i shoot tss in my olden guns for the performance. 40 and in is where I'm at and typically get too caught up and miss at 15 lol.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I shot these in 20 and 410 and they pattern well IF you can find them for a reasonable price. Stick with Verdict, Apex, or other customs otherwise.
Just saw a vieo of them putting 392 in the ten from a Win. SXP with a IC .562, that is crazy good, I have never seen close to that with handloads.