Winchester TSS Longbeard On Shelf
Oddly..... I can't find anywhere on the Winchester Ammo website where they even list making it....
Details, please ??
I see Winchester "Last Call" TSS waterfowl loads available in #9's. I wonder if these shells would be adequate for turkeys? If not, maybe one of our TSS experts could explain why or why not. They are about half the cost of turkey loads it appears.
Quote from: Yoder409 on January 01, 2025, 08:58:33 AMOddly..... I can't find anywhere on the Winchester Ammo website where they even list making it....
Details, please ??
3" shell, with - get this nonsense - 2 3/8 oz. of straight 8s. LOL, no thanks.
Every other TSS option out there is better. But guys will buy it WRONGLY believing it will do magic, like 80 or more yards. Which is both sad and pathetic.
Quote from: paboxcall on January 01, 2025, 12:31:33 PM3" shell, with - get this nonsense - 2 3/8 oz. of straight 8s. LOL, no thanks.
Every other TSS option out there is better. But guys will buy it WRONGLY believing it will do magic, like 80 or more yards. Which is both sad and pathetic.
Other than overkill, what makes it such a bad load compared to other companies offerings?
Sounds amazing to me, but I'm sure the price per shell will be just as shocking.
Apex makes a 2 1/4 oz 3" load with 7.5, 8, or 9 shot. Why are the Winchesters inherently worse?
I wonder if there was such discontent going from the .30 winchester to the .30-06?
2 3/8th OZ of 8s sounds deadly, on both ends I might add!
No way I am taking that abuse with the effectiveness of much lighter shooting loads!
The Apex .410 Ninja load is 7/8oz of 9 1/2. It works just fine. Any new untried load first needs to be patterned and shot at reasonable ranges of course.
1 3/8 oz of #9 TSS in my 28 kills them just as dead as 2 3/4 oz of whatever in a 12 gauge 3.5" magnum, lol. Give Winchester a chance to grow their product line. I am sure they will get a ton of feedback on it. I do wonder why so much goes into the 12 gauge TSS market. To me the whole idea is to get smaller and lighter with lethal killing loads. But some turkeys need to be "double dead" I guess. Z
The majority of folks still hunt with 12 gauges, that is why the market is still 12 gauge heavy. Social media would lead to you believe different, but there are still a whole lot of turkey hunters who haven't swapped to 20 gauges or even TSS. I've been handloading 3.5" 12 gauge loads since 2015 and still haven't swapped to a 20 gauge because I love my shotgun and see no need to "fix what ain't broken". I'm also shooting 2.5oz loads of #8s. I initially started with #8.5s, but was getting too many fliers that'd end up in a breast. Through extensive testing, it was easy to confirm dropping to #8s gave me a bit tighter core and less fliers. I doubt I ever change my loads again unless I swap guns. As many people that I talk to that complain about pellets in breast, I'm willing to bet more would drop from #9s to a larger shot if they'd experiment and not shoot what the internet tells them to shoot. Lot of folks are hung up on getting 300"+ in a 10" circle though.
My one concern with the TSS longbeard loads would be how dang tight it'd be at closer distances. I shot them some when the original longbeards first came out and there wasn't much wiggle room for error under 30 yards! Those TSS #8s are going to hold that super tight pattern even further I imagine.
I get far less #9s hung up in the breast meat compared to #5 lead. I believe 9s are the perfect size to balance energy and pattern density.
8s would most likely outpenetrate 9s, but I really don't need them to.
The payload is the problem. I shoot 2 oz of #8 and it's deadly as it's still doing around 280/10". Kinda like #2 lead with pattern density.
Quote from: Gooserbat on January 03, 2025, 09:58:07 AMThe payload is the problem. I shoot 2 oz of #8 and it's deadly as it's still doing around 280/10". Kinda like #2 lead with pattern density.
There's 508 tss 8s in 2oz
There's 176 pb 2s in 2oz
It has to be far far superior to #2 lead in pattern density. Closer to lead 6s honestly
Quote from: Number17 on January 03, 2025, 01:36:41 PMQuote from: Gooserbat on January 03, 2025, 09:58:07 AMThe payload is the problem. I shoot 2 oz of #8 and it's deadly as it's still doing around 280/10". Kinda like #2 lead with pattern density.
There's 508 tss 8s in 2oz
There's 176 pb 2s in 2oz
It has to be far far superior to #2 lead in pattern density. Closer to lead 6s honestly
I think you read that wrong
Biggest and baddest always sells!
Us turkey junkies forget there is a large amount of folks who want to shoot as far as possible to get whatever they're after!
Everyone one this forum should be shooting dove loads!
I have contemplated a season with dove loads but I'll probably stick to hand loaded TSS in 20ga!
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Quote from: fmf on January 03, 2025, 03:04:20 PMQuote from: Number17 on January 03, 2025, 01:36:41 PMQuote from: Gooserbat on January 03, 2025, 09:58:07 AMThe payload is the problem. I shoot 2 oz of #8 and it's deadly as it's still doing around 280/10". Kinda like #2 lead with pattern density.
There's 508 tss 8s in 2oz
There's 176 pb 2s in 2oz
It has to be far far superior to #2 lead in pattern density. Closer to lead 6s honestly
I think you read that wrong
Which part? How do you read it?
Quote from: Number17 on January 03, 2025, 03:53:20 PMQuote from: fmf on January 03, 2025, 03:04:20 PMQuote from: Number17 on January 03, 2025, 01:36:41 PMQuote from: Gooserbat on January 03, 2025, 09:58:07 AMThe payload is the problem. I shoot 2 oz of #8 and it's deadly as it's still doing around 280/10". Kinda like #2 lead with pattern density.
There's 508 tss 8s in 2oz
There's 176 pb 2s in 2oz
It has to be far far superior to #2 lead in pattern density. Closer to lead 6s honestly
I think you read that wrong
Which part? How do you read it?
That the load hes talking about has the energy of lead 2s, but also has pattern density. Not that the load has the pattern density of lead 2s.
Quote from: fmf on January 03, 2025, 11:13:19 PMThat the load hes talking about has the energy of lead 2s, but also has pattern density. Not that the load has the pattern density of lead 2s.
That would make a much better comparison, but still quite a stretch. 8 TSS is generally compared to #4 lead. A four size differential is mostly talked about, some say even 5 sizes, never heard a split of 6. Who knows, maybe?
I still don't know why the "payload is the problem"? Too much of a good thing?
I can't keep up with what's cool and what's not cool in the turkey world. LOL
I have friends who were all in on the 3.5" magnum loads who now shoot .410s
So there's the infamous Gooserbat shooting 2oz of 8s. Is he sad, pathetic, and mistaken......or does that just apply to other hunters who aren't in the club?
I bought a BACON call off him a few years ago. Man that call ran good.
"With number 8s, I know I can get 220 in a 10" circle at 40 yds. Using the . 7 rule, that means I can get 100 in a 10" circle out to a little over 60 yds. And the 8s give 1.25" penetration out to 92 yds."
Copied from Hal Abbot, his reasoning for shooting 9s is they run out of pattern and penetration around the same distance, I believe 72 yards.
With that heavy of a load of 8s the pattern will hold up farther than 60!
The 220 in the ten is with 1 5/8th oz. of 8s as well as the 72 yard efficacy of 9s.
So if one's pattern can hold up to 92yds the 8s would penetrate a turkey head and neck.
Crazy!!!
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The Infamous Gooserbat will Tommy-Swat turkeys at 70 with tss #8. I have killed over my 50 bird's in the last several years with tss in 8, 8.5, and 9 shot. I honestly can't tell a big difference in it except for #8. It is like a sledge hammer at extended range. If you're shooting a 12 ga as I do, imho it's going to be the ticket. I also found that a 2 oz load patterns tighter than the heavier loads and puts just as many pellets on paper for less $$$
Rogers Sporting goods has them listed for sale, if anyone is wanting some of them... Winchester XR ....
For myself, I'm not going to torture myself or my guns to that payload... LOL
$84 retail. $70 on sale. 1100fps and comes in #8 or #9 shot.
Wowsers!
Quote from: Gooserbat on January 04, 2025, 09:41:08 AMThe Infamous Gooserbat will Tommy-Swat turkeys at 70 with tss #8. I have killed over my 50 bird's in the last several years with tss in 8, 8.5, and 9 shot. I honestly can't tell a big difference in it except for #8. It is like a sledge hammer at extended range. If you're shooting a 12 ga as I do, imho it's going to be the ticket. I also found that a 2 oz load patterns tighter than the heavier loads and puts just as many pellets on paper for less $$$
Thanks for your real world experience and honesty. There is no denying the reality of what these loads are capable of.
I have boxes and boxes of 1 3/4oz #9s so I'm not in the market for 12g shells anytime soon, but those lighter 1 - 1.5oz 12g loads in 9 or 9.5 is probably what I'd try next.
My .410 knocks them down so nicely that the lighter payload has proven itself with me.
I shoot 1.5 0z of #9 TSS out of my 28 gauge and its never failed me. I went sub gauge to lighten my load and reduce recoil. If I ever use my 12 again, it will be with Longbeard #5 lead. I probably won't even go to 3.5" loads as I think it is unnecessary. If you kill turkeys cleanly, stick to what works for you. I have a feeling that with some real world feedback on the new Winchester TSS, they will be a solid performer. But, it is tough to beat a hand worked load that you tailor to your setup. Good luck and God Bless. Z
From Rogers(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250107/454a99ae1c07be56d2e2f342dbe3bd11.jpg)
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Some patterns on youtube, it looks devastating as one would assume with all that shot!
No thanks for me, I will keep rolling with hand loaded 20ga!
Quote from: Spring Creek Calls on January 07, 2025, 09:12:22 AMFrom Rogers(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250107/454a99ae1c07be56d2e2f342dbe3bd11.jpg)
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I bet that load kicks like a stubborn mule.
There's is a one shot, 12" circle? pattern on you tube. Blue collar outdoors.
Sorry, I know there's a lot of you tube haters here.
I'm thinking, those.....in #8 shot....would be absolute DEATH on fox and coyotes.
If I didn't have a BPS 10 gauge and a whole bunch of 3 1/2" lead #2's I'd be interested.
Quote from: deerhunt1988 on January 03, 2025, 09:11:27 AMThe majority of folks still hunt with 12 gauges, that is why the market is still 12 gauge heavy. Social media would lead to you believe different, but there are still a whole lot of turkey hunters who haven't swapped to 20 gauges or even TSS. I've been handloading 3.5" 12 gauge loads since 2015 and still haven't swapped to a 20 gauge because I love my shotgun and see no need to "fix what ain't broken". I'm also shooting 2.5oz loads of #8s. I initially started with #8.5s, but was getting too many fliers that'd end up in a breast. Through extensive testing, it was easy to confirm dropping to #8s gave me a bit tighter core and less fliers. I doubt I ever change my loads again unless I swap guns. As many people that I talk to that complain about pellets in breast, I'm willing to bet more would drop from #9s to a larger shot if they'd experiment and not shoot what the internet tells them to shoot. Lot of folks are hung up on getting 300"+ in a 10" circle though.
My one concern with the TSS longbeard loads would be how dang tight it'd be at closer distances. I shot them some when the original longbeards first came out and there wasn't much wiggle room for error under 30 yards! Those TSS #8s are going to hold that super tight pattern even further I imagine.
It's not about trying to "fix what ain't broken". If I can carry a lighter gun and spend less $ per shell to load, all while not being handicapped by the smaller gauge, then why wouldn't I? Shoot what you want by all means, but if you have no personal experience with the 20 ga, then your opinion is heavily biased by your disdain for the internet/social media.
As for the Win TSS, the payload is overkill IMO but people are free to do what they want. I'm pretty sure I read the loads are buffered and don't use the resin technology like the lead LB XR's. It's certainly unnecessary with TSS.
Quote from: GobbleNut on January 01, 2025, 09:25:22 AMI see Winchester "Last Call" TSS waterfowl loads available in #9's. I wonder if these shells would be adequate for turkeys? If not, maybe one of our TSS experts could explain why or why not. They are about half the cost of turkey loads it appears.
I'm still interested in knowing what our TSS experts have to say about using the above loads for turkeys? Shot weight is a bit lower than most TSS turkey loads, but the velocity is higher. Anybody want to explain or speculate on whether these shells would be advisable for turkey hunting at ranges out to 40 or so? The cost difference in these shells over regular TSS turkey loads is enough that I am tempted to give them a try...but I am no ballistics expert and would like opinions from some of those who might be more knowledgeable about these sorts of things.
Quote from: Yoder409 on January 10, 2025, 03:46:34 PMI'm thinking, those.....in #8 shot....would be absolute DEATH on fox and coyotes.
Try #2 tss on Coyotes. #3 or #4 works too but #2 will bust through high grass and brush. remember a yotes vitals are huge in comparison to a gobbler.
Quote from: Yoder409 on January 10, 2025, 03:46:34 PMI'm thinking, those.....in #8 shot....would be absolute DEATH on fox and coyotes.
Try #2 tss on Coyotes. #3 or #4 works too but #2 will bust through high grass and brush. remember a yotes vitals are huge in comparison to a gobbler.
Quote from: GobbleNut on January 12, 2025, 12:58:14 PMQuote from: GobbleNut on January 01, 2025, 09:25:22 AMI see Winchester "Last Call" TSS waterfowl loads available in #9's. I wonder if these shells would be adequate for turkeys? If not, maybe one of our TSS experts could explain why or why not. They are about half the cost of turkey loads it appears.
I'm still interested in knowing what our TSS experts have to say about using the above loads for turkeys? Shot weight is a bit lower than most TSS turkey loads, but the velocity is higher. Anybody want to explain or speculate on whether these shells would be advisable for turkey hunting at ranges out to 40 or so? The cost difference in these shells over regular TSS turkey loads is enough that I am tempted to give them a try...but I am no ballistics expert and would like opinions from some of those who might be more knowledgeable about these sorts of things.
Shoot them and see what they do on paper. It's a light payload by 12 gauge standards and thus a lower pellet count, but I would expect it to be fine for 40 and in. My side note is if you are going to the trouble just go all in and shoot some tss turkey loads so you take full advantage of the technology.
Quote from: GobbleNut on January 12, 2025, 12:58:14 PMQuote from: GobbleNut on January 01, 2025, 09:25:22 AMI see Winchester "Last Call" TSS waterfowl loads available in #9's. I wonder if these shells would be adequate for turkeys? If not, maybe one of our TSS experts could explain why or why not. They are about half the cost of turkey loads it appears.
I'm still interested in knowing what our TSS experts have to say about using the above loads for turkeys? Shot weight is a bit lower than most TSS turkey loads, but the velocity is higher. Anybody want to explain or speculate on whether these shells would be advisable for turkey hunting at ranges out to 40 or so? The cost difference in these shells over regular TSS turkey loads is enough that I am tempted to give them a try...but I am no ballistics expert and would like opinions from some of those who might be more knowledgeable about these sorts of things.
You don't have to be an expert to see the box is clearly labeled for waterfowl, so no, they're not going to work for turkeys. I thought you would know better.
A 1 ounce load of tss #9's in a turkey choke in a 20 gauge was getting more than 100 in the 10" a little past 50 yards at 1100 fps.
Those 12 gauge loads would probably work, tss doesn't need to go that fast for turkeys.
I've never shot tss going that fast, don't know if it would open up the tight Center core pattern or not.
Quote from: crow on January 12, 2025, 06:57:55 PMYou don't have to be an expert to see the box is clearly labeled for waterfowl, so no, they're not going to work for turkeys. I thought you would know better.
;D I thought you knew me well enough by now that I am pretty much clueless about a lot of stuff. :toothy12:
By the way, aren't turkeys waterfowl? ??? ::) :angel9:
Quote from: GobbleNut on January 12, 2025, 07:38:06 PMQuote from: crow on January 12, 2025, 06:57:55 PMYou don't have to be an expert to see the box is clearly labeled for waterfowl, so no, they're not going to work for turkeys. I thought you would know better.
;D I thought you knew me well enough by now that I am pretty much clueless about a lot of stuff. :toothy12:
By the way, aren't turkeys waterfowl? ??? ::) :angel9:
:D
Rumor is, it was those webfooted gobblers you were after when you sank our boat.
You know I just can't get over the loss of that boat
If I can't kill em with what I have now, I will just quit and be a full-time tennis instructor in Florida.
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I would be happy if they would just bring back the old Federal HW 7 ...
Quote from: Greg Massey on January 14, 2025, 10:37:35 AMI would be happy if they would just bring back the old Federal HW 7 ...
Unfortunately, that's like hoping Winchester would bring back Xtended Range. That load was ahead of its time!
Quote from: Jbird22 on January 15, 2025, 01:16:00 PMQuote from: Greg Massey on January 14, 2025, 10:37:35 AMI would be happy if they would just bring back the old Federal HW 7 ...
Unfortunately, that's like hoping Winchester would bring back Xtended Range. That load was ahead of its time!
I SO Agree with you ....
I still have some xtended range!
Problem with heavyweight is it cost nearly as much as TSS!