Turkey hunting forum for turkey hunting tips

No, not another youtube bashing thread, and no disrespect for the Youtube hero's.  I personally don't watch any of them, but read on every forum about their massive influence.   I've read where a lot of folks now smoke a cigar, take a shot of Wild Turkey, and use a Trumpet because of some YouTube videos.   Again I'm not bashing, and wish them all continued success.   But now that turkey season is winding down I would love to see some of these cool kid groups use their influence to promote predator control.  Maybe a few off season Kill-A-Coon-Save-Turkey episodes would inspire some of their followers to do the same.  I know I recently joined the ranks of trapping on the weekends.   I'm not taking out many, but I'm taking out a lot more than before.  This sure wouldn't hurt the turkeys future.  And I know it would generate the YouTuber at least one more like and a subscriber.   And if no one does any videos like this, please take it amongst yourselves to do what you can when you can on predator reduction.  In the end, it all boils down to our individual efforts.   Even if it's like my efforts, it's better than sitting back and complaining about the decline in turkey populations while doing nothing about it.  This is one of those deals where every little bit helps.   

unfortunately, ain't no money in trapping.  Also, off season is for editing bonus footage, trail cams for the deer tour and "dropping new merch"

Funny you bring this up, as a YouTube hero you despise i was recently on a podcast discussing the decline of the wild turkey, and obviously this subject was at the forefront.

We talked about how we need someone popular (we used Clay Newcomb and Bear Grease as the example) to get the ball rolling on making nest predator hunting and trapping cool again.

Some exposure, any exposure, would be helpful.


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Quote from: SimanOhio on April 28, 2023, 09:01:53 AM
Funny you bring this up, as a YouTube hero you despise

If that's what you got out of my post I apologize.  I don't despise any of them, I just don't watch for the same reasons I don't watch regular tv or movies.   Lack of attention span on my part.   I applaud you for your efforts using your platform to promote this topic on a podcast.   Well done, I hope others follow that example. 

Quote from: guesswho on April 28, 2023, 08:52:22 AM
No, not another youtube bashing thread, and no disrespect for the Youtube hero's.  I personally don't watch any of them, but read on every forum about their massive influence.   I've read where a lot of folks now smoke a cigar, take a shot of Wild Turkey, and use a Trumpet because of some YouTube videos.   Again I'm not bashing, and wish them all continued success.   But now that turkey season is winding down I would love to see some of these cool kid groups use their influence to promote predator control.  Maybe a few off season Kill-A-Coon-Save-Turkey episodes would inspire some of their followers to do the same.  I know in recently joined the ranks of trapping in the weekends.   I'm not taking out many, but I'm taking out a lot more than before.  This sure wouldn't hurt the turkeys future.  And I know it would generate them at least one more like and a subscriber.   And if no one does any videos like this, please take it amongst yourselves to do what you can when you can on predator reduction.  In the end, it all boils down to our individual efforts.   Even if it's like my efforts, it's better than sitting back and complaining about the decline in turkey populations.  This is one of those deals where every little helps.

I agree with you 100%. I pulled the traps out of storage that I use to run when I was a kid and out of school and started setting heavy on my place and a friends farm that I hunt. After three years of this I have witnessed an increase in the turkeys. If it's legal to take in Ohio, I don't let it out of the trap alive. I got my son involved with me and he is hooked on trapping. I really enjoy matching wits and catching coyotes, you have to be on your a game especially after they have saw 2 or 3 members of there pack caught in traps. I encourage every Turkey hunter to set a couple dozen traps every season. It don't take long to put a hurting on the raccoons and possums. Take your kids with you. It will be another way for you to enjoy spending time with each other and keep your kids out of bad things this world offers. Most trapping seasons are still in after all the deer hunting is over.

I don't know about anyone else's situation but down here where I'm from corn feeders are legal for deer. The deer hunters around and on my place run feeders year round. I trap coons every year on my 1250 acres. I take at least 50 during the year. That's a average number I'm throwing out. I have done this for the last 8 years. I feel that the feeders have helped the coon population explode. In my area anyway. It seems that for every one I trap , 2 show up. Guys running feeders have trail cams on these feeders. I trap close to them because I know that's a sure bet on trapping them. I have seen pics of at least a dozen coons around a feeder after I had caught 5. I continue to catch them and trail cams show I'm not putting a dent in them. I will continue to do my part but in my opinion I really believe that the surplus of food all over the property and adjoining properties help support a growing population. In my opinion the explosion of the coon population is because of the feeders and unless something is done about that then trapping is almost frutile. I don't see the practice of running feeders for deer going away. I commend anyone who is trying and encourage everyone to keep doing so.

Quote from: Spitten and drummen on April 28, 2023, 10:02:26 AM
I don't know about anyone else's situation but down here where I'm from corn feeders are legal for deer. The deer hunters around and on my place run feeders year round. I trap coons every year on my 1250 acres. I take at least 50 during the year. That's a average number I'm throwing out. I have done this for the last 8 years. I feel that the feeders have helped the coon population explode. In my area anyway. It seems that for every one I trap , 2 show up. Guys running feeders have trail cams on these feeders. I trap close to them because I know that's a sure bet on trapping them. I have seen pics of at least a dozen coons around a feeder after I had caught 5. I continue to catch them and trail cams show I'm not putting a dent in them. I will continue to do my part but in my opinion I really believe that the surplus of food all over the property and adjoining properties help support a growing population. In my opinion the explosion of the coon population is because of the feeders and unless something is done about that then trapping is almost frutile. I don't see the practice of running feeders for deer going away. I commend anyone who is trying and encourage everyone to keep doing so.

I 100% agree with this and is the main topic of conversation on the podcast i was on. It's not posted yet but I'll link it when I do.


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Quote from: guesswho on April 28, 2023, 09:08:43 AM

Quote from: SimanOhio on April 28, 2023, 09:01:53 AM
Funny you bring this up, as a YouTube hero you despise

If that's what you got out of my post I apologize.  I don't despise any of them, I just don't watch for the same reasons I don't watch regular tv or movies.   Lack of attention span on my part.   I applaud you for your efforts using your platform to promote this topic on a podcast.   Well done, I hope others follow that example.

I was just giving you a hard time, I know how you-tubers are viewed here so I like to shout it at the mountain tops that I am one, lol.


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I agree that predator control can and would make a lot of difference in helping turkey populations in a lot of cases.  Unfortunately, there are a lot of complications with taking that approach. 

Probably, the biggest complication is that overall, the general, non-hunting public pretty much frowns on killing animals so that human hunters can have more of another animal to kill.  We hunters must tread lightly in that regard.  Too much "press" on the matter is sure to bring out the crowd that will do everything they can to eliminate killing predators to benefit hunters.  That is just the reality we live in today.  We always have to take into account that wildlife belongs to everybody, not just those that want to hunt it,...and we hunters are a very small minority in today's society.  That "wildlife belongs to everybody" comment INCLUDES wildlife that is found on private property! 

Having said that, right now we are in a place where I think MOST of the general public is not paying a lot of attention to folks controlling predators on their private property, but it is best to keep it low key.  On public ground, it is another matter altogether.  Trapping on public lands in a number of states has already been outlawed, and more and more states are headed in that direction.  The bottom line is that, whether talking about public lands or private, it is best to be discreet in promoting this sort of stuff. 

Regarding public lands, here is the reality.  Wildlife agencies are most likely NOT going to pursue any sort of formal policy to control predators,...at least not for the benefit of hunters.  So where does that leave us?  We must look at alternatives that are acceptable to the general public,...that general public that controls our futures as hunters. 

Probably, the most obvious alternative is to provide habitat that minimizes the impact of predators on turkey populations,...and more specifically provides those factors needed for nesting success and survival of poults to that stage where they can more effectively avoid predation.  Unfortunately, at least on public ground, that is a monumental,...and monumentally expensive,...task.  Again, the reality is that such an effort is not going to be made on behalf of the 3-5% of the population that hunts.

So what are other alternatives?  In my opinion, the "saving grace" lies in accepting the fact that we will have to go back to the same policies that resulted in the wild turkey population explosion we had a half-century ago.  That is artificially "supporting" turkey populations through programs of supplementation,...that is, trap and transplant operations to supplement adult turkey numbers, artificial methods (to be determined) of ensuring nesting success and poult survival, and maybe even such unorthodox approaches like prey-base flooding to provide alternative, and easier, prey to predators. 

Of course, the above commentary is based on the premise that predators are the/a major problem in the current suppression of turkey populations.  That, in itself, has not been TOTALLY determined to be THE primary factor.  Regardless, there is no doubt they are a factor.  I applaud those that are in circumstances where they can take action to mitigate the predator problem to whatever degree possible.  Just remember to do it discreetly.  I can assure you that there are plenty of people out there watching...   :icon_thumright:

Gobblegoob, did I mention my attention span?  I'm going to have to wait for someone to give me the cliff notes.  ;D

I think one way to help the overall predator problem is to promote a seminar alongside the NWTF Chapter banquets in all state local chapters.  In doing this you are having an increased interest in saving the nesting of the turkeys and showing how important trapping can be to the overall turkey population.  In other words get the people involved that this will mean the most to, trying to save the turkeys for the future.  IMO... Same with seminars on trapping at these call shows like Unicoi and other sport shows.  WE are the ones who need to be promoting all of this to save the turkeys and the importance of trapping nest predators ... IMO... At least this will be a start in helping in some way...  I agree with GobbleNut keep this among the people it will mean the most, hunters and protecting the wild turkeys.

Quote from: guesswho on April 28, 2023, 10:48:26 AM
Gobblegoob, did I mention my attention span?  I'm going to have to wait for someone to give me the cliff notes.  ;D

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We actually bought my step son ( he's 12 ) some steel traps. Dog proof coon traps. We are going to hit it this year.

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Quote from: Cowboy on April 28, 2023, 12:33:31 PM
We actually bought my step son ( he's 12 ) some steel traps. Dog proof coon traps. We are going to hit it this year.

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And I bet y'all enjoy it.   Good luck :icon_thumright:

Call me a puss, but I dont do much predator trapping anymore bc I really didn't like killing animals stuck in a trap. I get that its the best think for turkey. But I imagine most people don't like it either and thats why most don't do it.

I follow a social media person who routinely post videos of shooting coons caught in a trap. Everytime I see it, it reminds me why I dont like it.

Dead Coons don't destroy turkey nests.  The dogooders screwed it up when they started throwing blood on people wearing fur garments.

I agree with all of you for the most part, except I wonder what planet that guesswho guy is from, that predators are an issue. Gobblegoob, dang I mean Gobblenut is right in being discreet. The antis already killed  the fur market, why wake the dragon from a slumber. Promote predator control internally.

I was just pondering this very topic this morning as I took a quick hunt between rain showers. If we try to make our case solely on protecting turkey nest we do not have much ground to stand on. The non hunting public care very little about our beloved turkeys. However, raccons do not just raid turkey nest, they raid song birds nest, small mammals, chicken coops, crap on the grain for your cereal and kill amphibians, even Eagle nest if given a chance. If your going to try and promote raccoon control measures, forget selling it on turkeys. Make it a bigger more socially sentitive issue. Print a story where raccoons raided a chicken farm and killed 100 chickens. Tell people they have less cardinals at their feeders and less baby  rabbits in their yard becasue the vicous raccoons are out of control. Tell them that raccons are spreading rabies to their pets and kids, ask them if their cereal taste like raccon pee....then you will have the public support. Heck, they may even demand the government step in.

I was taking notice in the last two weeks, while turkey hunting, that I do not see as many song birds. Our woods used to be full of warblers during turkey season and I am not seeing or hearing many. I used to be able to sit and watch hooded warblers, yellow, magnolia, and other warblers. The woods used to be alive with the songs of thrush and thrashers and I do not see or hear many. Perhaps there is a disease at work after all, like West Nile or avain flue.

I am just not convinced that predator control, especially coyote control is benefical to turkey populations?

I have seen several studies which show that coyote control is actually detrimental to ground nesting birds.

Coyotes kill/control other predators such as: Foxes, raccoons, skunks, Oppossums (all of which are worse on ground nesting birds), as well as bobcats (which are more likely to kill young and adult turkeys than are yotes).

Furthermore, coyotes main prey are fur-bearing rodents, which often compete for the same food sources at many upland birds (including turkeys).

Other studies show that indiscriminate killing of coyotes can actually increase populations by stimulating breeding (especially when dominant animals are killed).  You want to control them, it has to be by extensive trapping and/or destruction of dens.

And...  When we do get control the ground nesters, it would appear that avian predation increases (crows/ravens on eggs and young and raptors such as owls/hawks on adults and chicks).

I have called enough coyotes in while turkey hunting to know that they kill some turkeys...  But I still feel that killing them is more for fun than for any conservation benefit...

Bottom line is habitat improvement...  You want more turkeys to nest successfully, you need more good habitat over larger areas...  Birds condensed into smaller areas for nesting only attracts and makes it easier for predators....

Quote from: Marc on April 28, 2023, 01:33:27 PM
I am just not convinced that predator control, especially coyote control is benefical to turkey populations?

I have seen several studies which show that coyote control is actually detrimental to ground nesting birds.

Coyotes kill/control other predators such as: Foxes, raccoons, skunks, Oppossums (all of which are worse on ground nesting birds), as well as bobcats (which are more likely to kill young and adult turkeys than are yotes).

Furthermore, coyotes main prey are fur-bearing rodents, which often compete for the same food sources at many upland birds (including turkeys).

Other studies show that indiscriminate killing of coyotes can actually increase populations by stimulating breeding (especially when dominant animals are killed).  You want to control them, it has to be by extensive trapping and/or destruction of dens.

And...  When we do get control the ground nesters, it would appear that avian predation increases (crows/ravens on eggs and young and raptors such as owls/hawks on adults and chicks).

I have called enough coyotes in while turkey hunting to know that they kill some turkeys...  But I still feel that killing them is more for fun than for any conservation benefit...

Bottom line is habitat improvement...  You want more turkeys to nest successfully, you need more good habitat over larger areas...  Birds condensed into smaller areas for nesting only attracts and makes it easier for predators....

Marc, you seem very knowledgeable in fur bearer biology. I trapped from the time I was a kid until a couple years ago when I just didn't have any time for it anymore. The number one thing in trapping is understanding the animal and their biology. These so called nest predators aren't out looking for eggs to eat. They have a relatively small range and when they're out roaming looking for food and happen upon a nest of course they're going to eat it. They aren't actively seeking them like most seem to believe. People should be asking themselves what lead that hen to nest in the area that the coon was in to begin with and 9 times out of ten that goes back to poor habitat. Which in turn leads you to look at humans, we're expanding. Walmarts and grocery stores in what was 5 years ago a strut zone. Houses in what used to be roost locations. Etc. Advanced loads, firearms, optics, decoys, blind, calls, knowledge and methods are all also playing a role. I just can't wrap my head around that is hunters taking 30+ thousand (legally checked in) birds during the spring mating season every year doesn't play more of a role in a decline than a coon eating the random nest.


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Quote from: guesswho on April 28, 2023, 10:48:26 AM
Gobblegoob, did I mention my attention span?  I'm going to have to wait for someone to give me the cliff notes.  ;D

Gobblegoob!  I like it!  I wonder if it's too late to change my screen name...   :D ;D
...And by the way,...it reminds me of that old saying,..."It takes one to know one"   :toothy9: :newmascot:

 :TooFunny: Guilty as charged.

Quote from: ScottTaulbee on April 28, 2023, 02:15:10 PM

Quote from: Marc on April 28, 2023, 01:33:27 PM
I am just not convinced that predator control, especially coyote control is benefical to turkey populations?

I have seen several studies which show that coyote control is actually detrimental to ground nesting birds.

Coyotes kill/control other predators such as: Foxes, raccoons, skunks, Oppossums (all of which are worse on ground nesting birds), as well as bobcats (which are more likely to kill young and adult turkeys than are yotes).

Furthermore, coyotes main prey are fur-bearing rodents, which often compete for the same food sources at many upland birds (including turkeys).

Other studies show that indiscriminate killing of coyotes can actually increase populations by stimulating breeding (especially when dominant animals are killed).  You want to control them, it has to be by extensive trapping and/or destruction of dens.

And...  When we do get control the ground nesters, it would appear that avian predation increases (crows/ravens on eggs and young and raptors such as owls/hawks on adults and chicks).

I have called enough coyotes in while turkey hunting to know that they kill some turkeys...  But I still feel that killing them is more for fun than for any conservation benefit...

Bottom line is habitat improvement...  You want more turkeys to nest successfully, you need more good habitat over larger areas...  Birds condensed into smaller areas for nesting only attracts and makes it easier for predators....

Marc, you seem very knowledgeable in fur bearer biology. I trapped from the time I was a kid until a couple years ago when I just didn't have any time for it anymore. The number one thing in trapping is understanding the animal and their biology. These so called nest predators aren't out looking for eggs to eat. They have a relatively small range and when they're out roaming looking for food and happen upon a nest of course they're going to eat it. They aren't actively seeking them like most seem to believe. People should be asking themselves what lead that hen to nest in the area that the coon was in to begin with and 9 times out of ten that goes back to poor habitat. Which in turn leads you to look at humans, we're expanding. Walmarts and grocery stores in what was 5 years ago a strut zone. Houses in what used to be roost locations. Etc. Advanced loads, firearms, optics, decoys, blind, calls, knowledge and methods are all also playing a role. I just can't wrap my head around that is hunters taking 30+ thousand (legally checked in) birds during the spring mating season every year doesn't play more of a role in a decline than a coon eating the random nest.


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Glad to see this is being addressed. Predator control without proper habitat is simply putting a band aid on a bullet hole.

Making an effort on predator control is a great idea. Maybe regional contests would help. I've seen it for coyotes. Most of the coon hunters I know try to conserve coons, though.

I'm not sure on the YT angle. I have a youtube channel. I think the reason it only got a few hundred is because successful channels have to follow some kind of toxic paradigm like facebook influencers. It's not totally about content. I admit I don't really understand. Maybe because I don't fb or even watch the YT hunting videos.

I'm going to say that it's already becoming the popular thing along with burning.  A quick call to the dog proof manufacturers might back this up.  I am also seeing more smoke on the horizon in Feb and March than I ever have. 
Out of control coon pops will eventually control themselves with distemper and it is a nasty way to die I'd imagine.  I can remember multiple coons wandering around the house in the early 90's because they were blinded from distemper.
Nesting habitat needs as much attention as possible too.  Hens don't need to have to go far to nest.  They get picked off when they have to travel too far.

Most studies have concluded that predator control is an ineffective strategy in management of wildlife. Typically prey and predator coexist in a balanced ecosystem. Things go awry when a parameter drives the pendulum too far one way. Nature has built in corrections, like distemper, and raccoons, in particular, seldom exist at high levels because of it. However, when something else has driven healthy populations close to the brink everything matters, even one nest. So predator control may be slowing the bleeding, but it won't save the patient unless the cause of the bleeding is found. Still we know that we have to stop the bleeding to give us time to diagnose the cause. A question that repeatedly comes to my mind is, "why did populations sustain so well for 50+ years then suddenly in less than 10 years plummet?"  The fur market went bust in the 90s and raccoon exploded soon after, but still no one was hollering about the loss of turkeys. I am convinced there's another player on the field. Agencies do care and they are working on it, but it will take time.   

Thanks Marc.  I said as much on one post and got absolutely slammed.  Like I was some slob, only care about myself hunter. 

Predator control in limited areas can be very effective (private lands), but in large scale ecosystems has been shown to just cause other predators to invade, reproduce and change the whole diversity of the system-often to the bad for the very species you are trying to protect.

A nearby State Park had a problem with racoons.  Big problem.  I am on the Rabies Committee for my state and we set the code for dealing with rabies.  If a rabid animal is found in my state, I know about it.  This park had a crazy number of coons and the tourists were literally hand feeding them.  It was headed for a fatality as the people would camp and disperse, many back to another country.  The stae took decisive action - very quietly.  The next time I camped there, not a coon was seen.  I mentioned that to the ranger.  She said she did not know what I was talking about.  I just smiled and told her my name and my position.  She nodded and said "the problem no longer exists".  Like someone above said, it was not done as much for the shore birds and other natives, but for humans.  This is an isolated location and the control was very effective.  Trying to control predators in the local 750,000 acre National Forest would be a total waste of effort. 

It is always, first and foremost, about healthy, well managed habitat. 

What if the states offered bounties for fur. I'm sure that would bring trappers out of the woodwork again. I wonder how long it took the predator population to recover after the fur boom. Did it take this long to recover and now we are seeing the affects of it? I'm just now seeing signs of something hitting the raccoons. I'm finding them dead on creekbanks and such. Haven't seen any alive to tell if it's distemper or a overpopulation issue. I have no faith in the Ohio wildlife council to do the right thing. They sold the Ohio Sportsman out a few years ago over the bobcat season. The let the anti's-peta decide that we wasn't having a bobcat season. They want to wait till the study is complete and then determine if we need a season. The things are everywhere, there getting hit on the road etc. I'm sure there having an impact on the poults. Ohio just wants the money.

1. If you kill one dang coon, that dang coon won't have a chance to kill ANYTHING. 

2. My buddy started catching coons 2 or 3 years ago. 60 + this year. He had A DOZEN, YES I SAID DOZEN  STRUTTING LONGBEARDS in the field on his farm. More turkeys now than EVER. Coincidence???

3. I've killed coyotes coming in to the turkey call and had one rush my decoy that got popped. Coyotes eat turkeys as well as small dogs and cats. Opportunists.

4. I have seen a distemper diseased coon wander up in my yard. I don't want them around. It's a sad sight to see as well.

Bottom line. Whatever you remove will be that much less of a problem.

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Quote from: Ohiowoodchuck on April 28, 2023, 09:15:30 PM
I wonder how long it took the predator population to recover after the fur boom.

There was nothing to recover from.  The remaining furbearers went back to breeding.  My father was one of the largest fur dealers in the South and year after year he bought hundred of thousands of hides a year.  He and the trappers did a great favor for bird life until the PETA types destroyed the industry.