[url]https://www.wbtw.com/news/state-regional-news/south-carolina-turkey-hunter-shot-to-death-authorities-say//url]
"Ethics" aside....Why do we as a turkey hunting community allow this to continue?
I have it on good word that this hunter was shot behind a fan at 40 yards. Stop supporting people who promote it. Speak out. Condemn it to those you mentor. DO SOMETHING. This is going to become more and more commonplace as it is continuously promoted by those seeking instant gratification from social media and monetary gain. ONE DEATH IS TOO MANY.
https://www.wbtw.com/news/state-regional-news/south-carolina-turkey-hunter-shot-to-death-authorities-say/
Many more people doe each day on the way to work, should we stop people from driving?
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I agree, I've pushed the Commisioners in the state of KY to outlaw this nonsense for the last couple of years, at least on public land if nothing else and nothing ever came of it.
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Quote from: Goodtimekiller on April 06, 2023, 12:25:43 PM
Many more people doe each day on the way to work, should we stop people from driving?
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Ok, I'll bite. Apples and oranges..... but..... Do you promote methods of driving that contribute to deaths? drunk driving? texting and driving? driving without headlights? driving in the wrong lane of traffic? We could do this all day. That's not the point though......
Quote from: ScottTaulbee on April 06, 2023, 12:27:48 PM
I agree, I've pushed the Commisioners in the state of KY to outlaw this nonsense for the last couple of years, at least on public land if nothing else and nothing ever came of it.
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Doubt you'll get any movement or results from kdfwr but good on you for trying. Fanning birds on a management area makes about as much sense to me as standing behind a deer silhouette during gun season.
Anyone stupid enough to go on public ground, or for that matter anywhere, and put their face behind a fan and take that chance, may get what's coming to them! It's sad, but we all have a choice. We can only educate, but each has a right to choose. We already have enough people telling us what we can or can't do. No one is going to fix stupid!
Quote from: Kylongspur88 on April 06, 2023, 12:44:16 PM
Quote from: ScottTaulbee on April 06, 2023, 12:27:48 PM
I agree, I've pushed the Commisioners in the state of KY to outlaw this nonsense for the last couple of years, at least on public land if nothing else and nothing ever came of it.
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Doubt you'll get any movement or results from kdfwr but good on you for trying. Fanning birds on a management area makes about as much sense to me as standing behind a deer silhouette during gun season.
Yep, didn't get anywhere. These commissioners we have are only out for the interest in their own "groups". I contacted every one of them, personally on the listed phone numbers they have and by email, several times. Ralph Swallows emailed me back and told me to give him a call and he'd love to discuss it further. I called him every day for a week with no answer. And never got a return call either.
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Quote from: jhoward11 on April 06, 2023, 12:45:55 PM
Anyone stupid enough to go on public ground, or for that matter anywhere, and put their face behind a fan and take that chance, may get what's coming to them! It's sad, but we all have a choice. We can only educate, but each has a right to choose. We already have enough people telling us what we can or can't do. No one is going to fix stupid!
Absolutely. "Play stupid games and win stupid prizes" is the phrase that comes to mind.
I also do agree I wish it was outlawed but will not push it my self because it puts hunters(if you call them that) against hunters. I was a public servant for thirty year and you can't change everything to help protect the stupid! Now you have two less people hunting turkeys, ones dead the other one who shot will be in prison. Well that is two less unsafe hunters in the woods somewhere, that's a good thing for everybody else.
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I very seldom even put a decoy out anymore. A couple decades ago on private I had a hunter sneak through my decoys gun at the ready. I had my back to a big maple about 25 yards away. I froze and yelled what the ---- are you doing? He disappeared as quickly as he showed up. It put a little fright into me. Accidents can happen quickly. Stay safe guys. Good day.
Where does it say he was reaping?
Reaping is already illegal on public in SC.
It's a tragedy, plain and simple. A stupid, avoidable tragedy.
Quote from: BDeal on April 06, 2023, 01:29:20 PM
Where does it say he was reaping?
It does not in the article. I have spoken with a very credible source who says it was, when I asked them the same question.
It terrible that someone was killed. I feel bad for his family. I have strong feelings about reaping. I feel it's unfair to the turkeys but you get into that "if it's legal then it's ok" dialogue. People always say well what about using calls, or camo, or TSS. You have to draw the line somewhere. This is an easy place to draw the line because not only does it cause an automatic response from gobblers much of the time it also is a huge safety risk. Anyone who crawls behind a fan on public land is either stupid, or willing to take a risk to kill a turkey. Then you get into another hot topic of social media. People breaking rules, taking risk or whatever just to get a bird to post on their social pages. Gosh I hope this wasn't part of this story. (I'm not even sure if he was reaping) People are so desperate for that social gratification. I know it will cause people to squeeze the trigger a little too quickly, or hop across that boundary because they want something to post so bad. Anyway with all that aside we have a fellow hunter who lots his life participating in the hunt that we all love so much. Prayers for his family.
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Not a fan (no pun intended) of that style of hunting and have never tried it. For me, i don't think I would receive any gratification from that kind of kill. This tragedy is a lot more complicated than some inexperienced hunter shooting another hunter that they thought was a deer or turkey. This is someone intentionally posing as the target species with what can be an incredibly realistic decoy. I can see situations where an excited, inexperienced hunter might not be able to tell it wasn't a turkey (thick brush, coming over a little knoll, etc...). I would hope, however, that most experienced hunters would not make this mistake. We know to make sure of our target and what is behind it. Personally, I would like to see it outlawed. I don't think it is part of the spirit of fair chase and is a setup for events such as this. Now, the final question. Who was at fault? The person fooled by a realistic decoy (who should have known better) or the person using it that potentially puts themselves in harms way using the decoy (who should have been able to use it without suffering harm). There will be lots of opinions on this one.
Quote from: soILstrutter on April 06, 2023, 01:36:28 PM
Quote from: BDeal on April 06, 2023, 01:29:20 PM
Where does it say he was reaping?
It does not in the article. I have spoken with a very credible source who says it was, when I asked them the same question.
Thank you!
Y'all...nobody knows for sure if the guy was reaping birds or not. Unless the OP talked to someone hunting with him, whoever shot him, or the EMT/etc, it's all here-say. Again, it's already illegal for reaping on public land in SC. That shouldn't matter one way or the other. A man is dead, multiple lives have been changed forever.
This is as bad as democrats and a school shooting...you can't even let the dust settle and get the facts before you start slinging mud.
Are we slinging mud or discussing an issue?
You're discussing something that may or may not have happened, where if it did indeed happen, was already illegal.
Call it what you want.
If you're not calling birds to the gun, you're not turkey hunting.
This happened very near my home, its a very small, very popular wma. I haven't heard any word about the circumstances. As was said already fanning is illegal on SC public, but male decoys are not. It's tragic, and two families are forever changed.
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I was going to make this same post. Another factor is it is already illegal on public in SC so we will see how this case shakes out. Need to make it illegal period.
Very sorry to hear this. I agree with the reaping is dangerous crowd and especially on public land.
I see both hunters in the wrong here. We all agree the reaper was taking risks but why in the world would you shoot at a fan only?
Know your target folks. dang.
Quote from: Old Timer on April 06, 2023, 01:08:27 PM
I very seldom even put a decoy out anymore. A couple decades ago on private I had a hunter sneak through my decoys gun at the ready. I had my back to a big maple about 25 yards away. I froze and yelled what the ---- are you doing? He disappeared as quickly as he showed up. It put a little fright into me. Accidents can happen quickly. Stay safe guys. Good day.
Yes
What about States that allow rifles for turkey hunting? That 22-250, 220 Swift, 223 or 243 isn't stopping when and if it hits a turkey. And I sure don't want to be at ground level when someone turns a 3500 fps missile loose in my direction. A shotgun blast is bad enough!
Quote from: soILstrutter on April 06, 2023, 12:34:50 PM
Quote from: Goodtimekiller on April 06, 2023, 12:25:43 PM
Many more people doe each day on the way to work, should we stop people from driving?
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Ok, I'll bite. Apples and oranges..... but..... Do you promote methods of driving that contribute to deaths? drunk driving? texting and driving? driving without headlights? driving in the wrong lane of traffic? We could do this all day. That's not the point though......
There are plenty of driving deaths without any of those.
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It's a tragedy all the way around! Here's my response. I tought Hunter Education for Shotgun, Muzzleloader/Rifle, and Archery for over 15 years. The shooter violated one of the 10 Commandments of Safe Gun Handling, "Know your target, and beyond". Simple, he violated this and it resulted in a tragedy. This is a sad, unfortunate tragedy that sure could have been avoided. Prayers to all those involved. Be safe, be well.......
While I agree that it was not necessarily a smart move to use any type of fan on a public area (as far as safety)... I do NOT believe he got what he deserved... He made a mistake, and paid dearly for it... As did his friends and family.
There is nothing in the story that would make me presume whose fault it is or what happened... I am not ready to blame anyone...
Some hunter calling at a gobbling bird, and all the sudden there is a DSD decoy coming towards him with a full fan through tall grass... I can see where a (lethal) mistake could be made....
Someone sneaking up on, and shooting at just a fan... Not so much.
Truth is probably somewhere in the middle....
Me... I am NOT going to attempt to look like a legal turkey to shoot during turkey season in the woods, anyore than I am wearing brown clothes and putting antlers on my head and walking through the woods during deer season.
One thing I have come to learn, is that we should never be surprised at the capacity for human stupidity... I just do not know where it occurred in this situation?
Yes it's an accident that ended with loss of life... A big tragedy for all the families and the person who pulled the trigger and took the person's life... Prayers ...
Quote from: bbcoach on April 06, 2023, 03:49:01 PM
What about States that allow rifles for turkey hunting? That 22-250, 220 Swift, 223 or 243 isn't stopping when and if it hits a turkey. And I sure don't want to be at ground level when someone turns a 3500 fps missile loose in my direction. A shotgun blast is bad enough!
:z-winnersmiley:
Quote from: Goodtimekiller on April 06, 2023, 12:25:43 PM
Many more people doe each day on the way to work, should we stop people from driving?
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Sheer size fallacy...
Sad to hear.
Quote from: Greg Massey on April 06, 2023, 05:32:57 PM
Yes it's an accident that ended with loss of life... A big tragedy for all the families and the person who pulled the trigger and took the person's life... Prayers ...
Yes for sure, and on this most holiest of weekends, on this solemn eve, my love and prayers are with both families, in this terrible time. Sending many heartfelt prayers.
Many of you know I can speak to this from a perspective that no one posting can.... My first and foremost thoughts are not of idiocy, irresponsible law makers or fault. My soul is deeply troubled and my spirit saddened to the point I can almost cry. I know this pain all too well from both sides. My thoughts are to two devastated families and communities. The word I use is Tragedy, period.
My first logical assumption is the shooter is at fault, as the shooter bears the responsibility of determining if a shot is safe, true and directed at an authentic target. Target identification and certainty is priority no1, there is no valid defense for shooting a target that has not been positively identified. Sure a hunter behind a fan is convincing at first glance, but if the time is taken to watch it closely and determine a proper shot, I can not conceive how a hunter behind a fan passes as a live gobbler. A live gobbler properly observed is unmistakable as a live bird in how they move. The stupidity of the hunter may be a factor but the fault lies solely with the shooter. The shooter's life will forever change, but the victim is dead and only Jesus can fix dead. In a non fatal shooting the victim will suffer for years, eventually the shooter moves on in life, but those wounds never go away, both physical and emotionally. I do not advocate for more laws, but the more we speak to safety and insist on it the more tragedies we avoid. On every hunt talk about safety and insist on it. We can not legislate away stupid, but we can fix ignorance. This is a good discussion though as it makes us more aware. I am going to go take a shower now and when I wash over those 14 year old scars, my heart will think of this hunter and I will feel ill, remembering the everlasting pain of a hunting accident...
Prayers to the families for strength and healing in this tragic time.
Prayers for both sides— be extra careful out there guys !!
Common sense is not a flower that grows in everyone's garden.
You are witnessing Mother Nature at work - real time.
Yeah more laws are what we need instead of common sense.
Quote from: Gooserbat on April 06, 2023, 11:03:12 PM
Yeah more laws are what we need instead of common sense.
Many laws and regulations are created for people that lack common sense unfortunately...
Prayers go out to all involved. Right or wrong one of our brothers is dead and many lives have been shattered. I have also been the victim of a hunting accident, only 3 pellets in my beautiful face, and it was pheasant hunting. But the message is clear here. Be sure of your target and never even take your safe off unless you are 100% sure of your target and background' I have a friend who actually killed a 16 year old boy while deer hunting. Young man was in camo playing laser tag in the woods. Deer was killed cleanly and legally. The unfortunate young man was laying on the ground hiding approximately 85 yards away. 100% accident and still many lives shattered. My friend went to jail for 3 years, responsibility of your actions, and was never the same. It only takes a second to ruin lives. Please try to be patient and safe. God Bless you al. Z
here's my story I wrote in my most memorable hunts thread, for my perspective.
Read, You can't keep an old turkey hunter out of the woods
http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/index.php/topic,100082.0.html
I don't see anything at this point that indicates fanning or reaping was involved in this fatality. However, as has already been mentioned, that practice is already illegal on public land in SC. That has been true since 2020.
I live in SC and hunt almost exclusively on private land, but would not consider fanning as I've had poachers come in on me multiple times. I don't use decoys often, but when I do, I'm very careful where I sit and where I place them.
This is a senseless tragedy.
There are no hunting accidents, only hunting incidents.
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Quote from: Tom007 on April 06, 2023, 04:41:24 PM
It's a tragedy all the way around! Here's my response. I tought Hunter Education for Shotgun, Muzzleloader/Rifle, and Archery for over 15 years. The shooter violated one of the 10 Commandments of Safe Gun Handling, "Know your target, and beyond". Simple, he violated this and it resulted in a tragedy. This is a sad, unfortunate tragedy that sure could have been avoided. Prayers to all those involved. Be safe, be well.......
I think we need to be educating on the dangers of reaping / fanning. Think about it, many of these have been modified with real fan, real wings.... They look very real. At some point, I think much of the fault has to lie with the one crawling around behind a gobbler decoy. How stupid!! How hypocritical for states to require hunter safety courses, with one of the pillars of safety being..... don't identify yourself as the game being hunted. It's contradictory. How do we educate of such and then allow it to be legal, public or private. Safety doesn't stop at the property line. I'm not excusing the one that pulls the trigger, but it sure is hard for me place the majority of the blame on them. The reaper in that situation should have some accountability in that circumstance.
Speaking of reaping....
If you are on social media, such as YouTube and Facebook, you will notice how many young teenagers and new hunters (young and old), are inquiring about reaping methods and reaper decoy setups. In my opinion, it should be outlawed..... from a fair chase perspective and how it could potentially affect a localized group of turkeys. But, also how unbelievably unsafe it is. It goes against EVERYTHING hunter's education teaches.... Don't wear red, don't do anything to identify yourself as the game being hunted. And yet, here we are. It has been glorified by the hunting industry "celebrities" on YouTube and social media. I say shame on them for promoting to impressionable young kids and adults in the pursuit of marketing themselves and their products. And we shouldn't be labeled as "anti-hunter" hunters for questioning it. Just my opinion.
Why some people would put themselves in that position is beyond me. It goes against turkey hunting safety rule #1 don't look like the target especially on public ground. I've seen some of these reaping decoys that a taxidermist was making and I garentee alot of you guys would think its the real Mccoy inside of 20yds. Its just accidents waiting to happen. It wouldn't bother me one bit to outlaw all male decoys. The original aspect of spring season is to imitate a hen to lure a gobbler in.
Quote from: Hook hanger on April 07, 2023, 07:54:24 PM
Why some people would put themselves in that position is beyond me. It goes against turkey hunting safety rule #1 don't look like the target especially on public ground. I've seen some of these reaping decoys that a taxidermist was making and I garentee alot of you guys would think its the real Mccoy inside of 20yds. Its just accidents waiting to happen. It wouldn't bother me one bit to outlaw all male decoys. The original aspect of spring season is to imitate a hen to lure a gobbler in.
You probably would not get male decoys outlawed (pretty tough to field hunt without decoys)... But write your representatives about reaping. Get friends and family that agree with you to do so otherwise. Get on state forums and encourage others to write...
Make sure it is understood that these letters are coming from turkey hunters... Mention safety as the foremost concern and ethics secondary.
I think that it was about 2 years ago we had a very extensive thread about fanning-Reaping, and it actually got very heated. Almost to the point of locking up the thread and deleting it. I made a post about the fanner or Reaper, winding up with a face full of TSS. I stated that TSS ain't lead and would definitely hurt more, to the point of being Fatal.
I really regret that this happened, there's 2 families and friends that are both being affected.
I wonder how many of us, if we were slipping through the woods to set up, walked upon a strutting turkey, even with a lite breeze caused the decoy to "dance." How many of us would actually admit that they pointed their shotgun at the strutting turkey mentioned above?
And discover 30 seconds later that it's a decoy/reaper. A lot can go wrong in a matter of seconds!!!
Have a good one and May God bless y'all, Bo
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I am 100% against reaping in every way and it should be outlawed country wide on public and private lands. That said- I have not found any info to indicate that reaping was part of this incident.
I suspect that if the state wildlife agencies took a vote of all turkey hunters for or against reaping that the vote would be in favor of keeping reaping legal. I suspect Old Gobbler forum members are the exception among turkey hunters as a whole. My experience is that the ethical standards here are much higher than in the general hunting public. It is a sign of the times when ethics and morals are self determined. Not to derail the thread, but the bible warned of such a time as this, hunting is not exempt from social decline. I am pretty certain if i took a poll of my closest friends, even though I only know one that has ever reaped a bird once, that most of them would vote to keep it legal. I only know 3 guys that are purest turkey hunters that insist birds are called to the gun. Most want to do it the traditional way, but they will take birds off ambushes and other means. We live in a small world here on Old Gobbler, but that is why I am here, I like the neighbors.
What he said, lol. Well said Eggshell :funnyturkey: Z
In my world, Turkey hunting is a zero to 35 yard game. I am very confident that most hunters, especially this group on here have vision that is good enough to identify a real-life Turkey from a fake. Obviously it's easy to Monday-morning quarterback while looking back at an accident. Pulling the trigger on any firearm is a decision that can't be reversed, taken back. These decisions can't be taken lightly no matter the situation, if they are not, tragedies/accidents will happen for sure. Unlike other sports, hunting involves weapons that can injure or kill someone. There is a whole added level of individual and social responsibility that must be understood by all that choose to participate. Accidents happen in everyday life, it's unfortunate that those we encounter in our fraternity have mostly tragic outcomes.....be safe
It's sad, it's terrible but (unfortunately) there are those willing to do it. Whatever. If you could get our legislators off their duffs, I'd much rather see them focus their efforts on subjects like habitat management, predator control etc. You know, stuff that will help the Wild Turkey... let the "Turkey" behind the fan make his own decision....
If I were to bet on it, I would bet that the number of hunters that get shot "reaping" is no higher than 1) the number of people that get shot either by hunters shooting at decoys with the decoying hunter beyond, or 2) get shot sitting and calling and someone sneaks in and takes a "sound shot".
Having said that, all three of those are demonstrably less dangerous than hunters carelessly handling loaded firearms and either shooting themselves or others around them while hunting. Yet, in the topic of "when do you load your gun" in another post, most on here stated they walk around the woods with a loaded gun,...even when they are not actively engaged with a turkey,...and even worse, when they are with someone else. Sorry fellers, but you can't have it both ways,...if you want to eliminate dangerous activities in the woods, start with the things that are at the top of the list first!
I will qualify my position above by stating that I am not in favor of reaping, or otherwise trying to resemble a live turkey while hunting. That position includes decoys, fans, wings, and any other turkey part one might want to justify using. If you want to outlaw one thing, then outlaw them all. Not only will it eliminate a few accidents every year related to "turkey resemblance", it will undoubtedly help save the lives of a lot of gobblers in those areas where saving a few of their lives might make a difference in the well-being of the local turkey populations.
But if you really want to make a difference in terms of hunting accidents across the country, take a hard look at the overwhelmingly real causes of hunting accidents,....and adjust your own personal actions accordingly.
I have literally thrown off or denied half a dozen scoot and shoot type fanning companies from Oldgobbler in the last 10 years this is why
My condolences to the victim ...might possibly be two victims the shooter could be a victim also because of the plethora of ultra realistic products designed to resemble legal game , THAT MOUNT DIRECTLY TO THE BARREL OF THE GUN OR DESIGNED TO BE HAND HELD
Stay with me here on this ..long read
Here is what can and will possibly happen, in fact as sure as the sun rising out of the east each morning , behind every tree is a lawyer ...you can't see him ..but trust me they will appear like mosquitos once they smell the opportunity to draw blood ..they will present a gross negligence case against any company that makes a fanning that is involved with a shooting , present it before 12 jurors and that company will get smoked for millions of dollars .... They will sue the shooter , take his home property..sue his home owners insurance...then if there is a fanning product involved in any one of these shootings ...the SHOOTER will sue the victim ...the victims estate and the company (if any involved) of the fanning product for gross negligence ..there is a myriad of combinations of lawsuits even .. manslaughter charges (I've seen it ) depending on the circumstances of each case ..and there will be more
There's a bunch of companies selling these products a BIG ONE IN MISSISSIPPI AND ANOTHER IN LOUISIANA..I'm flat @#$ing amazed that somewhere someone in their legal departments didn't hold up a red flag
Now as far as holding up a turkey fan , if your that stupid nothing I or anyone else can say can fix that kind of stupid , I'm typing this behind a computer screen ..I will gladly tell it to your face ..that you are STUPID
In the end the lawyers will clean up this mess ..if it's painful enough $$ the people involved in profiting from it will change course
Great point, Shannon. I believe you are absolutely correct that it is just a matter of time before we see exactly what you predict. We'll see how it pans out and what the repercussions are... :icon_thumright:
OutLaw Lazy Reaping in ALL STATES! There are more Turkey Hunters Afield every Spring since 2020 and the Chinese Virus.
You are not wrong Shannon. Let me again just state something from experience. If you are not killed then you will most likely recover from your physical wounds before you settle all the legal and financial issues. Having been shot in a hunting accident, I can tell you first hand that insurance companies will deny payments, lawyers will sue and people will blame you for standing still in the wrong spot. Absolutely everyone loses in a hunting accident. I was literally standing still and doing nothing in the world to provoke a shot. Most of my wounds had literally healed before I settled all the financial and legal issues and if your thinking insurance and the shooter paid for it all, you would be dead wrong. I payed thousands of dollars out of my own pocket and was even blamed for the accident, remember I was standing still in the open. Two of the lowest forms of life on this planet (solely my opinion) are lawyers and insurance adjusters. So, think reeaall hard before you take that chance shot....EVERYONE LOSES IN A HUNTING INCIDENT.
Oh one more thing. I never sued anyone and I still had to hire a lawyer to defend my interest and protect my finances from being seized by insurance companies and health providers. I got zero compensation for, damages, pain and suffering. It's an ugly mess you want no part of. My shooter was uninsured and had little to take, but me I had my life savings, home and much more to lose and buddy they came for it.
I know several instances where lawsuits were hurdled revolving with hunting
One ...guy guy fell out of a tree stand on a lease ... lease didn't have insurance...guess what lease president/holder lost his house ..the state Georgia
Two ..this involves me , deer hunter walked into the still hunt area in the fall and shot at the sound of a turkey call from fall turkey hunters behind...killing a close family member , manslaughter charges were pressed and convicted against the shooter ...my father actually got the shooter out of doing jail time in a incredible act of decency on his part , you can't take a mans home away from him in Florida ...so your home owners policy has to pick up the tab...and they did it was well into the 6 digit range 30 years ago money ...that went towards his children, school etc...that's as far as I feel like talking about it ... If you want to know why I'm always cautious with people being safe , and liability with anything..that's why
I have 2 other friends of mine , who were shot turkey hunting and left for dead ...they survived luckily
Decoys ...they make good crash test dummies ..I put one out in the field AWAY from me ...if any idiot shoots ...it's just a few holes a few cuss words ...the world is safer
A special message to the companies with clamp on barrel decoys , scoot and shoot , fanning , or reaping devices ...we live in a world where anyone can be hauled into court...look at Sandy Hook and Remington ..ANYONE ...look you can bring a former president of the United States' of America ...you can be cleaned out ....you will be dragged into court and your company, investments etc will be yanked away by 12 jurors , simply discontinue the product..the few bucks your making isn't worth it ... discontinue it ...do your self a big favor
I've seen it ...
It's not a matter of if ...but WHEN they get a wrongful death suit against them
Quote from: Old Gobbler on April 08, 2023, 01:45:04 PM
I know several instances where lawsuits were hurdled revolving with hunting
One ...guy guy fell out of a tree stand on a lease ... lease didn't have insurance...guess what lease president/holder lost his house ..the state Georgia
Two ..this involves me , deer hunter walked into the still hunt area in the fall and shot at the sound of a turkey call from fall turkey hunters behind...killing a close family member , manslaughter charges were pressed and convicted against the shooter ...my father actually got the shooter out of doing jail time in a incredible act of decency on his part , you can't take a mans home away from him in Florida ...so your home owners policy has to pick up the tab...and they did it was well into the 6 digit range 30 years ago money ...that went towards his children, school etc...that's as far as I feel like talking about it ... If you want to know why I'm always cautious with people being safe , and liability with anything..that's why
I have 2 other friends of mine , who were shot turkey hunting and left for dead ...they survived luckily
Decoys ...they make good crash test dummies ..I put one out in the field AWAY from me ...if any idiot shoots ...it's just a few holes a few cuss words ...the world is safer
A special message to the companies with clamp on barrel decoys , scoot and shoot , fanning , or reaping devices ...we live in a world where anyone can be hauled into court...look at Sandy Hook and Remington ..ANYONE ...look you can bring a former president of the United States' of America ...you can be cleaned out ....you will be dragged into court and your company, investments etc will be yanked away by 12 jurors , simply discontinue the product..the few bucks your making isn't worth it ... discontinue it ...do your self a big favor
I've seen it ...
It's not a matter of if ...but WHEN they get a wrongful death suit against them
Some great posts!!!
The issue lies in that the majority of "hunters" have completely bought into what certain outdoor celebrities are selling them. A few of these clowns can no longer hunt without waving a reaper decoy around at a gobbler, and then plaster it all over social media. I have zero respect for those guys.... Promoting themselves and their products for personal gain, often at the expense of the resource, fellow hunters, and safety. Until they are held accountable, good luck. The gullible, instant gratification and validation seeking followers would follow them over a cliff. Because after all, they label anyone that questions them "anti-hunter" hunters.
At some point for a sustainable resource and hunting opportunities, some of these methods, tools, and technology may require a review. Until then it will take a few of these with influence to change their tune and speak out. Good luck with that $$$. I think it's a little past due, but that's just me.
Not even from the safety / legal aspect it's like, as eggshell mentioned, it's a product of social decay. A tainted culture, at least from my perspective. Common now are the stories of "it's been a tough season and turkeys aren't responding" (3-4 days into the season). The gobbler was with hens, hung up across the field, and showed no interest. I pulled out the reaper decoy and went towards the gobbler. He ran across the field into my lap. Had to do what I had to do". Some argue it's not about ethics, it's about methods, and so what does it matter if legal to kill one by any means. I believe it's ok to fail, which you reasonably should do more often than not, and not every tag is meant to be filled.
Any New information on what Happened in the South Carolina WMA?
Quote from: quavers59 on April 10, 2023, 10:59:37 AM
Any New information on what Happened in the South Carolina WMA?
The only new detail I've heard is that they came from different directions and may not have been aware of each other... Still no word on fanning or decoys being involved despite all the rumors flying around locally and online.
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If a new hunter were to look up "turkey hunting" on Youtube, they would probably come across someone reaping a turkey. I just did this myself and the very first video is a very popular person in the industry and a country music star and they're holding a strutter decoy in front of them. This new hunter is going to think "ok that's how you hunt turkeys".
I believe we need to stop supporting the folks that post this type of hunting on social media or on television shows and the companies that support them.
Ad I saw today on Facebooger. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230410/768838f4cf55bb5a8a75241858a54e6b.jpg)
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You have to understand the mentality of the typical new breed of turkey hunter. Now they don't play/hunt by the traditional rules that were established Long ago as to how you play the game.
See to them it's not how you play the game that matters, it's kill at all costs...Any legal means, they take any shortcut , gadget, gimmick, visual aid available to them. See this all started with allowing decoys to be used and then it just snowballed from there, Jake decoys/ strutting gobbler decoys/wearing a gobbler on your head, Badonkadeke, chickens that look funky, motorized scoot and shoot.
See the real rules for safety include Never wear ANYTHING red, white, or blue when you're turkey hunting . Those are good rules to follow. You have to realize they dumbed down the sport for the masses, to give them a chance for success you know. They want their participation trophy if you will. They don't have to learn how to call or how to turkey hunt anymore with all the shortcuts available to them. Remember they just want to kill at all costs so they can get it on social media and get the attention they're seeking, that pat on the back, the atta boy, you know the approval, the positive reinforcement they so desperately seek, the attention if you will .
I have to laugh when they complain "Someone shot my Jake/Gobbler Decoy" . It's like What were you thinking, what did you expect? How much did you contribute to the accident? (ALOT). .
Safety used to be an important consideration for the majority of hunters. Now it's just a joke to many...
See when we complain about it and try to enhance safety, We are the bad guys, the enemy, the ones trying to take away their participation trophy, their only chance for "success" again as they deem success by kills only . How dare we try to tell them how to hunt...
Then to add to it of course you have these TV/Video Hunters who think they're a celebrity, they're doing it . Let's be honest these guys don't care about your safety. They care about making money....The more kills they can get in front of a camera, the easiest, the more new products they can promote the more of your money they can get...
Now the states that sell the hunting licenses, they need their revenue too.. Some of these Badonkadeke/ScootNShoot guys might not even buy a license or tags if they can't use their crutches... Out of state licenses are revenue generators. ..
Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on April 15, 2023, 04:15:33 AM
You have to understand the mentality of the typical new breed of turkey hunter. Now they don't play/hunt by the traditional rules that were established Long ago as to how you play the game.
See to them it's not how you play the game that matters, it's kill at all costs...Any legal means, they take any shortcut , gadget, gimmick, visual aid available to them. See this all started with allowing decoys to be used and then it just snowballed from there, Jake decoys/ strutting gobbler decoys/wearing a gobbler on your head, Badonkadeke, chickens that look funky, motorized scoot and shoot.
See the real rules for safety include Never wear ANYTHING red, white, or blue when you're turkey hunting . Those are good rules to follow. You have to realize they dumbed down the sport for the masses, to give them a chance for success you know. They want their participation trophy if you will. They don't have to learn how to call or how to turkey hunt anymore with all the shortcuts available to them. Remember they just want to kill at all costs so they can get it on social media and get the attention they're seeking, that pat on the back, the atta boy, you know the approval, the positive reinforcement they so desperately seek, the attention if you will .
I have to laugh when they complain "Someone shot my Jake/Gobbler Decoy" . It's like What were you thinking, what did you expect? How much did you contribute to the accident? (ALOT). .
Safety used to be an important consideration for the majority of hunters. Now it's just a joke to many...
See when we complain about it and try to enhance safety, We are the bad guys, the enemy, the ones trying to take away their participation trophy, their only chance for "success" again as they deem success by kills only . How dare we try to tell them how to hunt...
Then to add to it of course you have these TV/Video Hunters who think they're a celebrity, they're doing it . Let's be honest these guys don't care about your safety. They care about making money....The more kills they can get in front of a camera, the easiest, the more new products they can promote the more of your money they can get...
Now the states that sell the hunting licenses, they need their revenue too.. Some of these Badonkadeke/ScootNShoot guys might not even buy a license or tags if they can't use their crutches... Out of state licenses are revenue generators. ..
Very well said. You sir nailed it to a T. These same guys whine about the decline in the turkey population. Sure there are several variables here but I laugh when people say " You can kill all the gobblers you want because it only takes one to breed all the hens. I sure miss the old days when turkey hunters were a fraternity and every one that turkey hunted had a unspoken set of rules.
Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on April 15, 2023, 04:15:33 AM
Some of these Badonkadeke guys might not even buy a license or tags if they can't use their crutches
I knew it was just a matter of time before someone figured out the real reason for the decline of the turkey population in some regions. I saw this coming several years ago and quit producing Badonkadeke and took him off the market. My apologies to all.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4596/38902071832_9d6c6106c7.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4736/38938331261_f1830fdb08.jpg)
Quote from: guesswho on April 15, 2023, 09:11:50 AM
Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on April 15, 2023, 04:15:33 AM
Some of these Badonkadeke guys might not even buy a license or tags if they can't use their crutches
I knew it was just a matter of time before someone figured out the real reason for the decline of the turkey population in some regions. I saw this coming several years ago and quit producing Badonkadeke and took him off the market. My apologies to all.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4596/38902071832_9d6c6106c7.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4736/38938331261_f1830fdb08.jpg)
Seriously, dude,...you should NEVER have put such a realistic gobbler imitation on the market. You should have known that there is not a turkey hunter alive that would not be able to identify it as anything other than a real, live gobbler and would shoot without hesitating! What got into you, buddy!? Shame on you! ;D :angel9: :toothy9:
Recent conversation with "an individual that is close to the investigation," it was stated to me that fanning was NOT involved only a hen decoy. For me, this actually raises more questions than it answers. Tragic regardless.
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