How would y'all feel if states worked together and started their seasons at the same time?
Such as break the country up into 4 sections. Or maybe even two.
NW, NE, SE, SW and each quadrant opened on same day.
Or the same if split in two. Just the north and south.
I'm sure this won't ever happen, however if it did I think it would take a huge strain off of certain areas with many people targeting opening days/weeks.
Hell, with such reduced pressure maybe some seasons could even run longer opening up opportunities.
What's yalls take? Just something to talk about.
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I don't think its that radical an idea, I know I've wondered it and so I'm sure others have as well. Maybe not nationally into 4, but some coordination with the goal of eliminating pressure caused by a traveling 'Opening Day' crowd.
Here in Idaho, as in many states out West, we have A LOT of hunting units and regs can vary quite a bit. For the most part, opening day of rifle deer is Oct. 10 statewide. I was told that wasn't always the case, but was made so to avoid just what you're talking about: Folks were traveling the state hunting 2 or 3 "opening days" and so Fish & Game put an end to it by matching the dates.
If you really want to take pressure off of birds then make south states a 14 day season and north states 14 days also with a 7 day overlap. One bird per week.
Quote from: Hook hanger on February 25, 2023, 02:44:02 AM
If you really want to take pressure off of birds then make south states a 14 day season and north states 14 days also with a 7 day overlap. One bird per week.
True but feel that may be on the total opposite far end of the spectrum.
Got to be better ways to do things while also maintaining a decent amount of opportunities.
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Maybe if each state limited the first 7 to 10 days of the season to residents only?
All of these ideas would require a level of coordination and cooperation among the states. Sort of like "nationalizing" the regulations. I'm not sure I would like that. I'm a fan of states rights in most cases and letting each state decide for themselves what is best.
I hate to see the loss of opportunity, because once it's lost you typically never get it back. I am not a big "traveling" hunter, I hunt the same 2 states every year. But when I retire I might hunt more states and would like to have more opportunities, not less. Just my thoughts.
I feel like this is already taking place with southern states season delays to curb nonresidents even if it's unintentional, and not in exact alignment, they're close enough to slow folks down rather than just opening in a perfect stagger from north to south.
Of the 15 States I have on my radar to hunt this year, 9 of them open within a 7 day timeframe in mid-April and they're very geographically diverse not just one cluster of the Midwest/West.
What if I were hunting national forest, should that be resident only for the opener too? I really do not pay much attention to what states are doing, just make sure I have my tag/tags and season is open when i get there!
Not hunting the opener too often when I travel. And actually avoid it a lot of the time.
Quote from: sasquatch1 on February 24, 2023, 11:53:14 PM
How would y'all feel if states worked together and started their seasons at the same time?
Such as break the country up into 4 sections. Or maybe even two.
NW, NE, SE, SW and each quadrant opened on same day.
Or the same if split in two. Just the north and south.
I'm sure this won't ever happen, however if it did I think it would take a huge strain off of certain areas with many people targeting opening days/weeks.
Hell, with such reduced pressure maybe some seasons could even run longer opening up opportunities.
What's yalls take? Just something to talk about.
I think it's a great idea,...especially since I made this exact proposal a couple of years ago... ;D :D ...when everybody was complaining that Mississippi was getting hammered by nonresidents because they started their season before other states in the southeast. Establishing uniform starting dates, with latitudinal adjustments between the more southerly and northerly states, would solve a lot of the perceived problems with traveling hunters trying to hit the openers of the various states. :icon_thumright:
Oh isnt it fun losing hunting opportunity .........to think how it was 10 years ago to now for the traveling hunter. What changed?
Quote from: TonyTurk on February 25, 2023, 06:51:49 AM
Maybe if each state limited the first 7 to 10 days of the season to residents only?
All of these ideas would require a level of coordination and cooperation among the states. Sort of like "nationalizing" the regulations. I'm not sure I would like that. I'm a fan of states rights in most cases and letting each state decide for themselves what is best.
I hate to see the loss of opportunity, because once it's lost you typically never get it back. I am not a big "traveling" hunter, I hunt the same 2 states every year. But when I retire I might hunt more states and would like to have more opportunities, not less. Just my thoughts.
I'm with you Tony!
Let individual states determine their own affairs. There's already too much big government and individual states know their own issues and needs.
And yes, once you give up the reins, you'll never get them back...
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Quote from: arkrem870 on February 25, 2023, 09:22:13 AM
Oh isnt it fun losing hunting opportunity .........to think how it was 10 years ago to now for the traveling hunter. What changed?
It don't really cause any loss of opportunity. Arguments could be made where it could even extend opportunities if this could allow more days to the season.
Or this could maybe eliminate the need for draws like Mississippi, or the public/private differences in season dates like alabama, and maybe lighten up on florida being almost all draw hunts on public.
As the pressure evens out across the board there should be less need to be so restrictive at times.
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I don't see this ever happening, way too much political involvement with these government agencies for this to ever happen. It's all about showing me the money we can generate from sales in each state. It has very little to do with the good of the turkeys. IMO.... It's been going on for years and it will continue.... IMO.... All geographical areas of the country have a difference in the start up of spring and of course this plays a part in the opening of the seasons... Some of these states take pride in being the first one to open for the spring turkey season...
Considering I could hunt alabama or mississippi starting March 15. Then on to Oklahoma and so on. Now I can't hunt any of them til April .......we have given all this up so people can be entertained. Complete bull sh
Quote from: arkrem870 on February 25, 2023, 11:23:20 AM
Considering I could hunt alabama or mississippi starting March 15. Then on to Oklahoma and so on. Now I can't hunt any of them til April .......we have given all this up so people can be entertained. Complete bull sh
Anyone said anything about April?
And if the total season lengths are the same as now, that isn't a loss of opportunity
Oklahoma would also fall in a different area than the SE I would think
I'm not quite sure what you are alluding to with "we have given all this up so people can be entertained"
I am assuming the restrictions put in most recently with a lot of blame going to social media. I am suggesting a way to hopefully let up on some of those restrictions by removing some of the narrowed down stress on the resource
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Kids are hunting in Florida today. Hawaii opens on Tuesday. Maine won't close until June 3, over 3 months from now. For grins, throw out some dates changes for posters to consider.
Quote from: Spurs Up on February 25, 2023, 11:27:38 AM
Hawaii opens on Tuesday.
Wednesday. Don't need anyone getting a head start. From what I hear it's going to be a non resident royal rumble on opening week.
Quote from: deerhunt1988 on February 25, 2023, 11:32:20 AM
Quote from: Spurs Up on February 25, 2023, 11:27:38 AM
Hawaii opens on Tuesday.
Wednesday. Don't need anyone getting a head start. From what I hear it's going to be a non resident royal rumble on opening week.
Think they all moved on to Hawaii vs south Florida? Lol
And, do you think they all targeting a white turkey?
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Quote from: sasquatch1 on February 25, 2023, 11:38:19 AM
Quote from: deerhunt1988 on February 25, 2023, 11:32:20 AM
Quote from: Spurs Up on February 25, 2023, 11:27:38 AM
Hawaii opens on Tuesday.
Wednesday. Don't need anyone getting a head start. From what I hear it's going to be a non resident royal rumble on opening week.
Think they all moved on to Hawaii vs south Florida? Lol
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Considering south FL once again lost more public land opportunity after the area was pimped out, possibly so!
Hawaii is absolute glaring proof of what's happening. It went from a chill place to hunt that was very much under the radar to a nut show. All because you need to be entertained
We should be honest with ourselves. The problem is PEOPLE, too many desiring a part of a limited resource.
Back to Squatch's original post, what's the fix now that things are so messed up? Is it a universal season and, if so, when? How about no opening date? Anywhere.
Florida's turkey program is so woefully divorced from reality ...that by the time they realize how bad the situation is it will be way too late to correct it
The south zone opened a week before the rest of the state ..then they moved it up to 2 weeks ...all of the states turkey hunters plus the out of staters zero right in on it
They have made several moves that I would consider useless , they need to immediately stop the practice of shooting jakes and bearded hens , and stop shooting hens in the fall even on private property ...the real Osceola is the next carrier pigeon ...it's gonna get shot into extinction
I would do that first ..then see if the harvest goes back to normal
And florida.....omg. Imagine being an older resident hunter there. Was crowded before it got pimped. Now the genie is out of the bottle. Enjoy your entertainment
Florida can't manage wildlife or fish. All the worry about managing is the money coming in. Before long the outfitters will get to start earlier then everyone else. Then it'll be 1 bird per vehicle unless you have a special license. All about money here. Heck I won't be surprised if they open the south end of the state to non residents only for the 1st 2 weeks.
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Quote from: arkrem870 on February 25, 2023, 12:02:08 PM
Hawaii is absolute glaring proof of what's happening. It went from a chill place to hunt that was very much under the radar to a nut show.
Glad I got my Hawaii jones out of the way several years ago. It was pretty obvious at that time that things were going to get ugly there eventually with the limited public hunting opportunity that exists there.
Quote from: Old Gobbler on February 25, 2023, 12:18:46 PM
Florida's turkey program is so woefully divorced from reality ...that by the time they realize how bad the situation is it will be way too late to correct it
The south zone opened a week before the rest of the state ..then they moved it up to 2 weeks ...all of the states turkey hunters plus the out of staters zero right in on it
They have made several moves that I would consider useless , they need to immediately stop the practice of shooting jakes and bearded hens , and stop shooting hens in the fall even on private property ...the real Osceola is the next carrier pigeon ...it's gonna get shot into extinction
I would do that first ..then see if the harvest goes back to normal
Good suggestions. If they don't see the value in aligning within the same state, it's hard to imagine them doing it on a wider scale.
I also wouldn't mind seeing a drastic increase in the price of wma stamps
Let's be honest, what it cost to be able to hunt essentially millions of acres is theft.
$100 minimum is still a steal in my eyes. Maybe then more Public lands could be held onto or purchased along with better habitat management
States with draws at least could charge to apply for draw hunts.
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Quote from: silvestris on February 25, 2023, 12:14:43 PM
We should be honest with ourselves. The problem is PEOPLE, too many desiring a part of a limited resource.
I believe that this is the TRUTH!!!!
Quote from: Hook hanger on February 25, 2023, 04:57:36 PM
Quote from: silvestris on February 25, 2023, 12:14:43 PM
We should be honest with ourselves. The problem is PEOPLE, too many desiring a part of a limited resource.
I believe that this is the TRUTH!!!!
We have spilt our milk for sure ,,, and not just a small glass ,,, the whole gallon !!!
No thanks, no way, horrible idea!
Quote from: Hook hanger on February 25, 2023, 02:44:02 AM
If you really want to take pressure off of birds then make south states a 14 day season and north states 14 days also with a 7 day overlap. One bird per week.
I tend to somewhat agree . I think bama is doing it right. Public opens later for non res.... No and 1 bird in first 10 days on public . It doesn't eliminate all pressure but it gives the residents a jump in time without the ability to slaughter out right off the bat, also forces the non res to kill and keep moving verses squat for 1/2 the season .
State agencies should control the season dates and take through sound data and studies. Not by an armchair biologist!
We have way to much public input now in WV, don't need more public input from out of state.
No, I do not like the idea of a US start date, or a regional start date either. Way more factors than just making people happy to consider.
Quote from: WV Flopper on February 26, 2023, 01:01:03 PM
State agencies should control the season dates and take through sound data and studies. Not by an armchair biologist!
Unfortunately, many, if not most, wildlife agencies are governed by Game Commissions (or the equivalent) which are very often made up of folks who fit squarely into that "armchair biologist" category. And just as unfortunately, often the "armchair" decisions they make are based on something other than sound science.
In addition, the directors of wildlife agencies serve at the whims of those Game Commissions. Going against decisions made based on politics and/or money, regardless of how bad those decisions might be biologically, generally only results in those directors/leaders of wildlife agencies being relegated to seek new employment.
Quote from: WV Flopper on February 26, 2023, 01:01:03 PM
State agencies should control the season dates and take through sound data and studies. Not by an armchair biologist!
We have way to much public input now in WV, don't need more public input from out of state.
No, I do not like the idea of a US start date, or a regional start date either. Way more factors than just making people happy to consider.
Regional start date idea isn't about making people happy
It's about helping the resource without being pounded all at once. Think South Florida
Tell me how that could be BAD for the resource?
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We have several Titanic issues facing Florida
1) is that the FWC is clueless ...did you know they only harvest about 500 turkeys in the entire state wma's !!!!And that half are really hybrids or eastern ..the rest of the private land is being developed at a alarming rate ..we got 21 million people in the state and they project a 45 million population by 2050 ...if you haven't turkey hunted in Florida...hope you plan on doing it soon !!
Central Florida Guides are getting $3000 per gobbler , I was informed there is a guide service that gets that in groups of 4-6 ...all 6 weekends of the season and averages %40 success! And gets 3 grand ..I told people 10 years ago this would happen ..and I'll tell you guides get $2800 in Florida for fulvous tree ducks ...in 5 years time it will be 5-7 thousand dollars for a real Osceola..and it will keep going up
Some of the better leases south of Orlando get $10,000 per year per member and you have to share that with other lease holders and that's for 2 birds
About the only thing they have done right is move the "line" of demarcation for Osceolas to near Jacksonville..a move yet again based on zero scientific data ..the foremost expert (Dr. Lovett Williams) and every real turkey hunter in the state will tell you Orlando and south for the real deal ! Anyways this simple act of buffoonery , may have saved Osceolas from over hunting as every cracker with a airboat is guiding out of staters to "get thier slam" all over north Florida ..and trust me the guide$ will tell you different! But those birds north of Orlando are hybrids, some a tiny bit , some a way bit
2) here is the hard facts ... with in 15 to 20 years all of the suitable land that is coded or will be coded for residential development will slowly checkerboard the horizon..urban sprawl will creep ever so quickly ...those WMA's that butt up to private land and pull birds in off those leases ..well the WMA's will be the only place with habitat..cause those leases will be shopping malls , apartment buildings , warehouses freeways and the like ...
20- 30 years from now Florida will issue tags like they do for Dall Ram and Elk in other states ..the preference points will go through the roof ..look for the FWC to start doing some crazy stuff once they figure out how bad the situation really is with the new online harvest check-in that is mandatory
BTW Alaska kills more Dall Ram than Florida kills turkeys on WMA's enjoy turkey hunting while you can ...
Hear me now .. believe me later
Quote from: Old Gobbler on February 26, 2023, 05:20:44 PM
We have several Titanic issues facing Florida
1) is that the FWC is clueless ...did you know they only harvest about 500 turkeys in the entire state wma's !!!!And that half are really hybrids or eastern ..the rest of the private land is being developed at a alarming rate ..we got 21 million people in the state and they project a 45 million population by 2050 ...if you haven't turkey hunted in Florida...hope you plan on doing it soon !!
Central Florida Guides are getting $3000 per gobbler , I was informed there is a guide service that gets that in groups of 4-6 ...all 6 weekends of the season and averages %40 success! And gets 3 grand ..I told people 10 years ago this would happen ..and I'll tell you guides get $2800 in Florida for fulvous tree ducks ...in 5 years time it will be 5-7 thousand dollars for a real Osceola..and it will keep going up
Some of the better leases south of Orlando get $10,000 per year per member and you have to share that with other lease holders and that's for 2 birds
About the only thing they have done right is move the "line" of demarcation for Osceolas to near Jacksonville..a move yet again based on zero scientific data ..the foremost expert (Dr. Lovett Williams) and every real turkey hunter in the state will tell you Orlando and south for the real deal ! Anyways this simple act of buffoonery , may have saved Osceolas from over hunting as every cracker with a airboat is guiding out of staters to "get thier slam" all over north Florida ..and trust me the guide$ will tell you different! But those birds north of Orlando are hybrids, some a tiny bit , some a way bit
2) here is the hard facts ... with in 15 to 20 years all of the suitable land that is coded or will be coded for residential development will slowly checkerboard the horizon..urban sprawl will creep ever so quickly ...those WMA's that butt up to private land and pull birds in off those leases ..well the WMA's will be the only place with habitat..cause those leases will be shopping malls , apartment buildings , warehouses freeways and the like ...
20- 30 years from now Florida will issue tags like they do for Dall Ram and Elk in other states ..the preference points will go through the roof ..look for the FWC to start doing some crazy stuff once they figure out how bad the situation really is with the new online harvest check-in that is mandatory
BTW Alaska kills more Dall Ram than Florida kills turkeys on WMA's enjoy turkey hunting while you can ...
Hear me now .. believe me later
Eye opening post.
But from what I can observe from 1000 miles away........and having only hunted Osceolas one year.......... I don't think you're wrong. Sad. But true.
Florida is the elephant in the room. It is not the same for the rest of the country.
As some may not understand, they have one of the four turkeys recognized for the grand slam. You could lobby to push back the start of the south Florida season to align with Alabama, Miss, and Georgia.
I am doubtful that anyone will kill their Osceola in Alabama so in mind mind....nothing was gained. People are going to come.
Quote from: Old Gobbler on February 26, 2023, 05:20:44 PM
We have several Titanic issues facing Florida
1) is that the FWC is clueless ...did you know they only harvest about 500 turkeys in the entire state wma's !!!!And that half are really hybrids or eastern ..the rest of the private land is being developed at a alarming rate ..we got 21 million people in the state and they project a 45 million population by 2050 ...if you haven't turkey hunted in Florida...hope you plan on doing it soon !!
Central Florida Guides are getting $3000 per gobbler , I was informed there is a guide service that gets that in groups of 4-6 ...all 6 weekends of the season and averages %40 success! And gets 3 grand ..I told people 10 years ago this would happen ..and I'll tell you guides get $2800 in Florida for fulvous tree ducks ...in 5 years time it will be 5-7 thousand dollars for a real Osceola..and it will keep going up
Some of the better leases south of Orlando get $10,000 per year per member and you have to share that with other lease holders and that's for 2 birds
About the only thing they have done right is move the "line" of demarcation for Osceolas to near Jacksonville..a move yet again based on zero scientific data ..the foremost expert (Dr. Lovett Williams) and every real turkey hunter in the state will tell you Orlando and south for the real deal ! Anyways this simple act of buffoonery , may have saved Osceolas from over hunting as every cracker with a airboat is guiding out of staters to "get thier slam" all over north Florida ..and trust me the guide$ will tell you different! But those birds north of Orlando are hybrids, some a tiny bit , some a way bit
2) here is the hard facts ... with in 15 to 20 years all of the suitable land that is coded or will be coded for residential development will slowly checkerboard the horizon..urban sprawl will creep ever so quickly ...those WMA's that butt up to private land and pull birds in off those leases ..well the WMA's will be the only place with habitat..cause those leases will be shopping malls , apartment buildings , warehouses freeways and the like ...
20- 30 years from now Florida will issue tags like they do for Dall Ram and Elk in other states ..the preference points will go through the roof ..look for the FWC to start doing some crazy stuff once they figure out how bad the situation really is with the new online harvest check-in that is mandatory
BTW Alaska kills more Dall Ram than Florida kills turkeys on WMA's enjoy turkey hunting while you can ...
Hear me now .. believe me later
It's very believable. You can not have an ever increasing population anywhere, without simultaneously having a decrease in habitat.
It's just a slow death by 1000 cuts that people don't see or notice until too late.
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Quote from: sasquatch1 on February 24, 2023, 11:53:14 PM
How would y'all feel if states worked together and started their seasons at the same time?
Such as break the country up into 4 sections. Or maybe even two.
NW, NE, SE, SW and each quadrant opened on same day.
Or the same if split in two. Just the north and south.
#1. Never work.
There is "south". Then there is 'deep south" There is "north". Then there is "great white north" There's too big of a climatic difference to do things other than by individual state. Some states like Florida even have different openers within the state for that reason.
#2. You have state agencies that are bent on doing things that make NO SENSE.
Now............. I'm not a biologist. So I won't say WHO is making no sense in setting season dates. But in the north (and look at a map if you're not a geography buff) the following places have openers BEFORE Pennsylvania:
Michigan
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Manitoba
Ontario
Quebec
Maine
What the CHUCK, Farley ??? So, no matter HOW much sense a concept of merging opening dates might make..........some states are gonna do it THEIR way no matter what.
It is sad that Florida does not have turkey biologist in place, or , if they do, the commission allowing them to do their job which they were hired for.
Upon the lucky day I killed the first Florida turkey of my career I was amazed I did not have to check the animal in??? This, in its self, says a lot about the UNsound turkey biology in Florida.
Agreed Yoder. Even in WV we could argue different start dates for different regions within the state. But, there is not a sound way to accomplish that. You would just have a Florida issue in WV.
Openers
S FL-3/4
MS-3/15
N FL-3/18
AL-3/20
LA-4/1
GA-4/1
From one extreme to the other in these states, your talking 4 weeks span. Do you all think the breeding between these states is that much diff? Or either way they'll breed when they ready.
However, 3/18 like N florida is right in the middle of the earliest and latest opener
If all those states opened then, there's no way the resource don't get some breathing room in my eyes as all the opener travelers can't hone into isolated spots.
Would opening 14 days late hurt the Osceola? In some way? Or hurt any of those states?
To get away from losing opportunities the states that got pushed back a few days could run a little longer (same totals days of season)
This is all just for nothing but closed season boredom discussion also. So no need to get all hot and bothered
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I'd rather see all states go to their own quota system for non residents.
I know that won't be a popular opinion, but make the states a hard quota draw.
Quote from: Sixes on February 26, 2023, 07:19:37 PM
I'd rather see all states go to their own quota system for non residents.
I know that won't be a popular opinion, but make the states a hard quota draw.
That would affect ALL Turkey hunters that move around, which is many. So that'd be very unpopular I would think.
Would help local residents though.
Any Non resident restrictions would probably always be public land driven only. Which also could have negative affects with even more private leases being taken from residents etc etc
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I am ignorant to South Florida! How productive would it be to lengthen the season by 14 days?
Meaning, if you pushed the season opener back by two weeks are those Toms workable end of April? Or did you just screw hunters out of two weeks of hunting. Sorry, I meant limit opportunity by two weeks.
Quote from: WV Flopper on February 26, 2023, 07:32:39 PM
I am ignorant to South Florida! How productive would it be to lengthen the season by 14 days?
Meaning, if you pushed the season opener back by two weeks are those Toms workable end of April? Or did you just screw hunters out of two weeks of hunting. Sorry, I meant limit opportunity by two weeks.
Screw them out of hunting? With the same amount of season days?
Or do you mean, screw them out of good or better hunting?
And to that I am not sure, maybe someone down that way could elaborate on their gobbling or activity. It would have to be based off a place that didn't lose a lot of gobblers though.
Can't say they not gobbling late due to most being dead already
And to all those people I apparently screwed over already. I apologize
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650 miles from South Florida to North Georgia. Yes, I can understand why the season starts are almost a month apart.
Yes, screw the hunters out of huntable days and put them in the woods more so while hens are nesting and hatching.
There is a window to this whole game, it's not as easy as just pushing it back without effecting something else. If your going to push it back, say your shortening the season and be done with it.
Quote from: WV Flopper on February 26, 2023, 07:50:08 PM
Yes, screw the hunters out of huntable days and put them in the woods more so while hens are nesting and hatching.
There is a window to this whole game, it's not as easy as just pushing it back without effecting something else. If your going to push it back, say your shortening the season and be done with it.
So what's your suggestion to help the wild Turkey.
From where it's at (many believe it's not too good)
Leave it be? Shorten season? Limit non residents or opportunities?
Do you feel it's as good as it can be currently, to balance opportunity without hurting the resource?
We all know habitat is the largest control knob, yet it's the hardest to do on scale
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Quote from: sasquatch1 on February 26, 2023, 07:26:12 PM
Quote from: Sixes on February 26, 2023, 07:19:37 PM
I'd rather see all states go to their own quota system for non residents.
I know that won't be a popular opinion, but make the states a hard quota draw.
That would affect ALL Turkey hunters that move around, which is many. So that'd be very unpopular I would think.
Would help local residents though.
Any Non resident restrictions would probably always be public land driven only. Which also could have negative affects with even more private leases being taken from residents etc etc
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My post is to help the birds not NR hunters.
As far as leases here in Georgia, I'm not sure that NR pressure for leases could even increase from what it is now. I have no issue with NRs on their own land or leases, but they should have to jump through hoops for public state lands.
Georgia is missing out on a ton of money by having deer/turkey/bear all under one license fee instead of separating the species and charging for them independently
Quote from: Sixes on February 26, 2023, 08:10:24 PM
Quote from: sasquatch1 on February 26, 2023, 07:26:12 PM
Quote from: Sixes on February 26, 2023, 07:19:37 PM
I'd rather see all states go to their own quota system for non residents.
I know that won't be a popular opinion, but make the states a hard quota draw.
That would affect ALL Turkey hunters that move around, which is many. So that'd be very unpopular I would think.
Would help local residents though.
Any Non resident restrictions would probably always be public land driven only. Which also could have negative affects with even more private leases being taken from residents etc etc
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My post is to help the birds not NR hunters.
As far as leases here in Georgia, I'm not sure that NR pressure for leases could even increase from what it is now. I have no issue with NRs on their own land or leases, but they should have to jump through hoops for public state lands.
Georgia is missing out on a ton of money by having deer/turkey/bear all under one license fee instead of separating the species and charging for them independently
How does my idea help non residents? By taking away their ability to bounce around to isolated areas??
Yea it would also affect residents tho I understand
But, to heavily restrict non residents also hurts a large portion of turkey hunters being we are only residents in 1 state.
Leases can get worse always. A lot of pullover land is timber leases, once the date can't compete with outside money those wmas disappear. Seen that happen in La multiple times
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Quote from: sasquatch1 on February 26, 2023, 08:08:18 PM
Leave it be? Shorten season? Limit non residents or opportunities?
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If your goal is really to help the bird then why only limit the take of non residents? If you are going to help them then limit them across the board, otherwise it comes off like you are just trying to get more for yourself.
Sorry, not trying to be a jerk at all but that is what it sounds like to me whenever ANYBODY suggests shortening it for NR's but keeping the same for residents. If we are going to help them that way then do the same take for everyone and lower the take for everyone.
Quote from: sasquatch1 on February 26, 2023, 08:34:29 PM
Quote from: Sixes on February 26, 2023, 08:10:24 PM
Quote from: sasquatch1 on February 26, 2023, 07:26:12 PM
Quote from: Sixes on February 26, 2023, 07:19:37 PM
I'd rather see all states go to their own quota system for non residents.
I know that won't be a popular opinion, but make the states a hard quota draw.
That would affect ALL Turkey hunters that move around, which is many. So that'd be very unpopular I would think.
Would help local residents though.
Any Non resident restrictions would probably always be public land driven only. Which also could have negative affects with even more private leases being taken from residents etc etc
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My post is to help the birds not NR hunters.
As far as leases here in Georgia, I'm not sure that NR pressure for leases could even increase from what it is now. I have no issue with NRs on their own land or leases, but they should have to jump through hoops for public state lands.
Georgia is missing out on a ton of money by having deer/turkey/bear all under one license fee instead of separating the species and charging for them independently
How does my idea help non residents? By taking away their ability to bounce around to isolated areas??
Yea it would also affect residents tho I understand
But, to heavily restrict non residents also hurts a large portion of turkey hunters being we are only residents in 1 state.
Leases can get worse always. A lot of pullover land is timber leases, once the date can't compete with outside money those wmas disappear. Seen that happen in La multiple times
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Either you misunderstood or I wrote it wrong. You wrote that it would be unpopular to traveling hunters, and what I meant was my suggestion is not about helping NR hunters and I don't care if it is popular for traveling hunters nor if they dislike the idea.
Our population in Georgia has went downhill quickly over the last few years. We've already lost part of the season and lost one bird off the limit. Residents should come first in any state and NRs should be after thoughts for the state.
Yes, I put residents over non residents in importance.
And yes, I do hunt in Alabama each year as a NR on private land, and if they went to a NR quota or further restrictions on NRs, I would be fine with the rules.
This has been done in a few border states around my home state of Arkansas- Arkansas took very aggressive measures a couple years back- one was to back up season and also shorten season - we used to open a week ahead of Missouri so Arkansas folks would hunt here a week then move up there - now they open same week - eliminating a good bit of nonresident pressure on MO - also now Mississippi who opens really early and was an early target for nonresident is now a draw for nonresidents for first couple weeks eliminating nonresidents pressure there- nobody is coming to Arkansas to turkey hunt - it's not like it was in 80s and early 90s- and we only allow one bird first week as does Missouri- it's taken a long time to get these things in place - countrywide opening date same I say no - a few states banding together to help disperse pressure and try to protect turkeys I say it's being done already in places- good hunting and good luck!!!
Quote from: Sir-diealot on February 26, 2023, 09:19:10 PM
Quote from: sasquatch1 on February 26, 2023, 08:08:18 PM
Leave it be? Shorten season? Limit non residents or opportunities?
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If your goal is really to help the bird then why only limit the take of non residents? If you are going to help them then limit them across the board, otherwise it comes off like you are just trying to get more for yourself.
Sorry, not trying to be a jerk at all but that is what it sounds like to me whenever ANYBODY suggests shortening it for NR's but keeping the same for residents. If we are going to help them that way then do the same take for everyone and lower the take for everyone.
Why would a resident not want to maintain their resources to their own residents?
I'm not sure you comprehend what is going on in the southern states with all the NRs and the pressure being put on public land. In Georgia, only a very small amount of land is public land, the rest of the ~97% is privately owned, so you take all those NR public land hunters and stick them on minute pieces of land, then it negatively effects the population and this negative effect in turn affects surrounding private lands.
If you look at a GA map, the vast majority of public land is north Georgia, which is also the roughest land in the state and holds the least amount of game.
Quote from: Sixes on February 26, 2023, 10:13:11 PM
Quote from: Sir-diealot on February 26, 2023, 09:19:10 PM
Quote from: sasquatch1 on February 26, 2023, 08:08:18 PM
Leave it be? Shorten season? Limit non residents or opportunities?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
If your goal is really to help the bird then why only limit the take of non residents? If you are going to help them then limit them across the board, otherwise it comes off like you are just trying to get more for yourself.
Sorry, not trying to be a jerk at all but that is what it sounds like to me whenever ANYBODY suggests shortening it for NR's but keeping the same for residents. If we are going to help them that way then do the same take for everyone and lower the take for everyone.
Why would a resident not want to maintain their resources to their own residents?
I'm not sure you comprehend what is going on in the southern states with all the NRs and the pressure being put on public land. In Georgia, only a very small amount of land is public land, the rest of the ~97% is privately owned, so you take all those NR public land hunters and stick them on minute pieces of land, then it negatively effects the population and this negative effect in turn affects surrounding private lands.
If you look at a GA map, the vast majority of public land is north Georgia, which is also the roughest land in the state and holds the least amount of game.
Would they not maintain them better if everyone had the same limits? It is either about preserving or it is not. By the way, I am in NY the public land is full of people as well, I know it is a nightmare to find land to hunt that is not overloaded on public here. Then you get a situation where we got a new park oh jeepers I do not recall what they call them but each one can set new sections as they see fit where people hunt. We got a new one at one of our parts that cut the area in half, gave the public the worse half that can be hunted and you can go through and see him and his buddies hunting all the good parts of the park and it does no good to complain because just about everybody in the government is anti hunting anyway. Park Ranger I think he is called.
Now I do not hunt turkey on public normally unless I just want to do something new or somebody new asks me to go out with them but I do have to bow and muzzleload hunt public as the owners of where I turkey hunt do not want you to hunt with bow at all no matter what and only muzzleloader during regular deer season so I see the problems that he is causing first hand. Now you take the way I walk and they land types that I am safe to traverse and I am very limited.
All I am getting at is if it really is about saving the turkey then we should all do the same thing to try to save them, resident and non resident alike. I think nonresidents put out far more money to hunt public than residents do (Gas, campsite/hotel, crazy fee for license, meals away from home and so on) so if anything they should get more not that I think anyone should because after all we ARE in theory trying to save the turkey for future generations. OH I have to correct myself, I am not allowed to Fall hunt for turkey there either as they are afraid I will scare the deer away so I have to either find someplace to set up a blind at another friends or get someone else to come along with me to help set up a blind, chair and all because I am unable to sit on the ground.
Georgia: Rushton says about 40,000 to 50,000 folks go turkey hunting in the state
New York: Wild turkeys are one of the most popular game species in New York State. About 90,000 hunters participate in the spring hunting season and 45,000 hunters take to the field each fall in pursuit of this great game bird.
Georgia: 6,870 acres of land owned by the state is open for public hunting
New York 30,161 acres for hunting.
How many wild turkeys are in New York?
Image result for How many turkey hunters in NY
approximately 180,000 turkeys
300,000 turkeys
Georgia turkey populations, like those through much of the Southeast, are in decline from successful post-restoration numbers. Biologists esimated that the state had about 250,000 to 300,000 turkeys in 2022. That was down from about 350,000 a few years earlier.
Quote from: Sir-diealot on February 26, 2023, 10:43:08 PM
Quote from: Sixes on February 26, 2023, 10:13:11 PM
Quote from: Sir-diealot on February 26, 2023, 09:19:10 PM
Quote from: sasquatch1 on February 26, 2023, 08:08:18 PM
Leave it be? Shorten season? Limit non residents or opportunities?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
If your goal is really to help the bird then why only limit the take of non residents? If you are going to help them then limit them across the board, otherwise it comes off like you are just trying to get more for yourself.
Sorry, not trying to be a jerk at all but that is what it sounds like to me whenever ANYBODY suggests shortening it for NR's but keeping the same for residents. If we are going to help them that way then do the same take for everyone and lower the take for everyone.
Why would a resident not want to maintain their resources to their own residents?
I'm not sure you comprehend what is going on in the southern states with all the NRs and the pressure being put on public land. In Georgia, only a very small amount of land is public land, the rest of the ~97% is privately owned, so you take all those NR public land hunters and stick them on minute pieces of land, then it negatively effects the population and this negative effect in turn affects surrounding private lands.
If you look at a GA map, the vast majority of public land is north Georgia, which is also the roughest land in the state and holds the least amount of game.
Would they not maintain them better if everyone had the same limits? It is either about preserving or it is not. By the way, I am in NY the public land is full of people as well, I know it is a nightmare to find land to hunt that is not overloaded on public here. Then you get a situation where we got a new park oh jeepers I do not recall what they call them but each one can set new sections as they see fit where people hunt. We got a new one at one of our parts that cut the area in half, gave the public the worse half that can be hunted and you can go through and see him and his buddies hunting all the good parts of the park and it does no good to complain because just about everybody in the government is anti hunting anyway. Park Ranger I think he is called.
Now I do not hunt turkey on public normally unless I just want to do something new or somebody new asks me to go out with them but I do have to bow and muzzleload hunt public as the owners of where I turkey hunt do not want you to hunt with bow at all no matter what and only muzzleloader during regular deer season so I see the problems that he is causing first hand. Now you take the way I walk and they land types that I am safe to traverse and I am very limited.
All I am getting at is if it really is about saving the turkey then we should all do the same thing to try to save them, resident and non resident alike. I think nonresidents put out far more money to hunt public than residents do (Gas, campsite/hotel, crazy fee for license, meals away from home and so on) so if anything they should get more not that I think anyone should because after all we ARE in theory trying to save the turkey for future generations. OH I have to correct myself, I am not allowed to Fall hunt for turkey there either as they are afraid I will scare the deer away so I have to either find someplace to set up a blind at another friends or get someone else to come along with me to help set up a blind, chair and all because I am unable to sit on the ground.
I never mentioned having different limits for residents vs non residents.
Same limit is fine, just limit the NRs allowed to hunt.
As far as NRs paying more, that is such a myth. They might bring in a little money if they lease land, but guys coming in paying 300 bucks for 12 deer and 2 gobblers, while sleeping in tents and cooking meals are not doing anything for the economy.
As far as residents and what we pay, I paid 5900+ in state income tax (just me, not family) last year, plus 7% sales tax on every purchase, 3500 in property taxes, plus other fees and crap, so please don't compare some NR hunter coming in for few days to hammer our resources as an equal in "what they bring in"
Quote from: Sixes on February 26, 2023, 11:00:22 PM
Quote from: Sir-diealot on February 26, 2023, 10:43:08 PM
Quote from: Sixes on February 26, 2023, 10:13:11 PM
Quote from: Sir-diealot on February 26, 2023, 09:19:10 PM
Quote from: sasquatch1 on February 26, 2023, 08:08:18 PM
Leave it be? Shorten season? Limit non residents or opportunities?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
If your goal is really to help the bird then why only limit the take of non residents? If you are going to help them then limit them across the board, otherwise it comes off like you are just trying to get more for yourself.
Sorry, not trying to be a jerk at all but that is what it sounds like to me whenever ANYBODY suggests shortening it for NR's but keeping the same for residents. If we are going to help them that way then do the same take for everyone and lower the take for everyone.
Why would a resident not want to maintain their resources to their own residents?
I'm not sure you comprehend what is going on in the southern states with all the NRs and the pressure being put on public land. In Georgia, only a very small amount of land is public land, the rest of the ~97% is privately owned, so you take all those NR public land hunters and stick them on minute pieces of land, then it negatively effects the population and this negative effect in turn affects surrounding private lands.
If you look at a GA map, the vast majority of public land is north Georgia, which is also the roughest land in the state and holds the least amount of game.
Would they not maintain them better if everyone had the same limits? It is either about preserving or it is not. By the way, I am in NY the public land is full of people as well, I know it is a nightmare to find land to hunt that is not overloaded on public here. Then you get a situation where we got a new park oh jeepers I do not recall what they call them but each one can set new sections as they see fit where people hunt. We got a new one at one of our parts that cut the area in half, gave the public the worse half that can be hunted and you can go through and see him and his buddies hunting all the good parts of the park and it does no good to complain because just about everybody in the government is anti hunting anyway. Park Ranger I think he is called.
Now I do not hunt turkey on public normally unless I just want to do something new or somebody new asks me to go out with them but I do have to bow and muzzleload hunt public as the owners of where I turkey hunt do not want you to hunt with bow at all no matter what and only muzzleloader during regular deer season so I see the problems that he is causing first hand. Now you take the way I walk and they land types that I am safe to traverse and I am very limited.
All I am getting at is if it really is about saving the turkey then we should all do the same thing to try to save them, resident and non resident alike. I think nonresidents put out far more money to hunt public than residents do (Gas, campsite/hotel, crazy fee for license, meals away from home and so on) so if anything they should get more not that I think anyone should because after all we ARE in theory trying to save the turkey for future generations. OH I have to correct myself, I am not allowed to Fall hunt for turkey there either as they are afraid I will scare the deer away so I have to either find someplace to set up a blind at another friends or get someone else to come along with me to help set up a blind, chair and all because I am unable to sit on the ground.
I never mentioned having different limits for residents vs non residents.
Same limit is fine, just limit the NRs allowed to hunt.
As far as NRs paying more, that is such a myth. They might bring in a little money if they lease land, but guys coming in paying 300 bucks for 12 deer and 2 gobblers, while sleeping in tents and cooking meals are not doing anything for the economy.
As far as residents and what we pay, I paid 5900+ in state income tax (just me, not family) last year, plus 7% sales tax on every purchase, 3500 in property taxes, plus other fees and crap, so please don't compare some NR hunter coming in for few days to hammer our resources as an equal in "what they bring in"
I don't go for the NR spending angle either really.
However, all those taxes you mention really don't go to funding conservation and or wmas or what not
Most of that money is made up from license sales where NR generally pay a lot more, but some states are real cheap there too
I've never hunted Ga and probably never will. However 12 deer?? Is that correct and not a typo? Jesus
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Quote from: Sixes on February 26, 2023, 11:00:22 PM
Quote from: Sir-diealot on February 26, 2023, 10:43:08 PM
Quote from: Sixes on February 26, 2023, 10:13:11 PM
Quote from: Sir-diealot on February 26, 2023, 09:19:10 PM
Quote from: sasquatch1 on February 26, 2023, 08:08:18 PM
Leave it be? Shorten season? Limit non residents or opportunities?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
If your goal is really to help the bird then why only limit the take of non residents? If you are going to help them then limit them across the board, otherwise it comes off like you are just trying to get more for yourself.
Sorry, not trying to be a jerk at all but that is what it sounds like to me whenever ANYBODY suggests shortening it for NR's but keeping the same for residents. If we are going to help them that way then do the same take for everyone and lower the take for everyone.
Why would a resident not want to maintain their resources to their own residents?
I'm not sure you comprehend what is going on in the southern states with all the NRs and the pressure being put on public land. In Georgia, only a very small amount of land is public land, the rest of the ~97% is privately owned, so you take all those NR public land hunters and stick them on minute pieces of land, then it negatively effects the population and this negative effect in turn affects surrounding private lands.
If you look at a GA map, the vast majority of public land is north Georgia, which is also the roughest land in the state and holds the least amount of game.
Would they not maintain them better if everyone had the same limits? It is either about preserving or it is not. By the way, I am in NY the public land is full of people as well, I know it is a nightmare to find land to hunt that is not overloaded on public here. Then you get a situation where we got a new park oh jeepers I do not recall what they call them but each one can set new sections as they see fit where people hunt. We got a new one at one of our parts that cut the area in half, gave the public the worse half that can be hunted and you can go through and see him and his buddies hunting all the good parts of the park and it does no good to complain because just about everybody in the government is anti hunting anyway. Park Ranger I think he is called.
Now I do not hunt turkey on public normally unless I just want to do something new or somebody new asks me to go out with them but I do have to bow and muzzleload hunt public as the owners of where I turkey hunt do not want you to hunt with bow at all no matter what and only muzzleloader during regular deer season so I see the problems that he is causing first hand. Now you take the way I walk and they land types that I am safe to traverse and I am very limited.
All I am getting at is if it really is about saving the turkey then we should all do the same thing to try to save them, resident and non resident alike. I think nonresidents put out far more money to hunt public than residents do (Gas, campsite/hotel, crazy fee for license, meals away from home and so on) so if anything they should get more not that I think anyone should because after all we ARE in theory trying to save the turkey for future generations. OH I have to correct myself, I am not allowed to Fall hunt for turkey there either as they are afraid I will scare the deer away so I have to either find someplace to set up a blind at another friends or get someone else to come along with me to help set up a blind, chair and all because I am unable to sit on the ground.
I never mentioned having different limits for residents vs non residents.
Same limit is fine, just limit the NRs allowed to hunt.
As far as NRs paying more, that is such a myth. They might bring in a little money if they lease land, but guys coming in paying 300 bucks for 12 deer and 2 gobblers, while sleeping in tents and cooking meals are not doing anything for the economy.
As far as residents and what we pay, I paid 5900+ in state income tax (just me, not family) last year, plus 7% sales tax on every purchase, 3500 in property taxes, plus other fees and crap, so please don't compare some NR hunter coming in for few days to hammer our resources as an equal in "what they bring in"
The comment I first posted on sounded like that is what you were saying. Now you may pay that much but there are others that do not pay that much if anything that are residents. By the way, I added more data above, you may want to read it, or not but I wanted to let you know that I did. My major complaint was it came off to me like you were saying that you wanted residents to have more tags than none residents in the name of conservation, when if you truly wanted to conserve all should take the same amount. That was my major complaint. If I misread then I do apologize. I will not debate this any more tonight, my hands are beginning to hurt to much, I am misspelling things and my comments are beginning to babble. You have a good night guy.
"
[/quote]
I don't go for the NR spending angle either really.
However, all those taxes you mention really don't go to funding conservation and or wmas or what not
Most of that money is made up from license sales where NR generally pay a lot more, but some states are real cheap there too
I've never hunted Ga and probably never will. However 12 deer?? Is that correct and not a typo? Jesus
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[/quote]
Less than 25% of DNR budget is from license fees. The rest is PR fees, state taxes, fed taxes and donations.
No typo. 2 bucks and 10 does, 2 bears and 2 gobblers (used to be 3), unlimited hogs. Plus, the license are for a 365 day period instead of seasonal which is dumb and could easily be abused.
Just for thought....South Florida has tomatoes hanging on a plant before I have put a plant in the ground.
In Florida to help the resources the best I think you can, lobby to make one state start time. Obviously it would be the later and align with the north.
I personally think this would help a little, but not much. It will turn your remaining non quota hunt areas into quota hunt areas real quick. In 3 years all of the public areas would be quota only.
And, not all of your Non Res hunters are sleeping in their truck or tent. Lots of us old guys like a bed, shower, AC, set down dinner. And maybe we pay money into Pittman Robertson in our home state that goes to others as well.
Public, is public.
Florida will never be lightened because we have birds no one else has and most people want. I prefer things the way they are. It makes travel hunting easier with different dates for different states.
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Man this thread is scary, hunters advocating for their own loss of opportunity.
The elephant in the room no one seems to want to discuss is we kill birds now we didn't 25 years ago. Reaping, fanning, heavier than lead shot, better guns and chokes, optics, and allowing hunting over or near bait have made killing birds more successful for the vast majority of hunters. Changing seasons will only do so much.
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Quote from: TurkeyReaper69 on February 28, 2023, 08:58:52 PM
Man this thread is scary, hunters advocating for their own loss of opportunity.
Where is the loss of opportunity? Total Season days are same in my thought or idea.
I'm hoping to open opportunities by spreading pressure. Cuz lately we been losing opportunities due to the narrowed down pressure
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Nothing is more pleasant than the last ten days of March. I hunt for pleasure, so the later seasons are not appreciated by me. I would trade three of the later for one of the former.
Quote from: snoman4 on February 28, 2023, 09:03:51 PM
The elephant in the room no one seems to want to discuss is we kill birds now we didn't 25 years ago. Reaping, fanning, heavier than lead shot, better guns and chokes, optics, and allowing hunting over or near bait have made killing birds more successful for the vast majority of hunters. Changing seasons will only do so much.
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This 100%. If the goal is to slow the harvest down, why aren't agencies looking at "how we hunt"? It's common sense. Let's not take away opportunity in days hunted BEFORE we look at, as you stated, male decoys and decoy usage, remote control decoys, reaping, 70-80 yard routine shots. A step further.... Partner with the USFS on size and timing of burns. It matters. For the hunter recruitment argument, you need days afield, and solid population numbers to hunt. It's simple. All else will work itself out.
Why not? $$$ and marketing I would guess. It's too big of an animal now to just quietly adjust. Much easier and less headache to adjust season dates and lengths, and create limited draw hunts, etc. The same folks and companies that promotes hunter recruitment, turns a blind eye to what will effect it most down the road.
The "if it's legal" probably crowd just stood on their head in disgust I'm sure.
I sent a respectful and well thought out letter to each game commissioner of my state to share thoughts on this subject, and request at least a review. One responded with a non-answer, and no response from any others. I would have rather gotten a response of "go fly a kite" than nothing.
I also asked the state NWTF President where they stood on some of these subjects. Had a good personal response on the subject, but wasn't sure what the NWTF's stance is. He didn't have to tell me without me already knowing.
I'm lucky in that I'm a 90% Florida private land hunter and I don't have any problems with the way it is right now, for ME.
Just wanted to reply that the gobblers have been doing their thing at on of my places south of 70 since December and were full out by Jan 15.
My part of Texas has Eastern turkeys. Most counties have closed the turkey season completely. What season we have opens ridiculously late, to purposely keep the harvest low. But the population struggles greatly here to survive so we take what we can get.
I think the individual states should keep running their own hunting seasons. They should know the populations and hunter's needs best.
When is the last time Federal Govt getting involved in anything made it better, cheaper or less complicated?
LOL, if you don't recognize the LOSS in opportunity your not a turkey hunter. End of discussion for me.
Non resident hunters are not that much of a issue in Florida, if any issue at all ..once you start playing games with limiting non res , then your neighbor starts doing it then there is a non res pissing war ..
the problem is ..simply turkey hunting is awesome and word has got out
The quota system is a JOKE , they let you to bring a hunting guest ..so what people are doing is getting everyone in their family a application ...the state knows about it but they want the money ...hunting guests was never allowed until they yanked the transferability of permits ..they took one step forward ..and then a step back on that ..quit with the games , legitimately close up the gaming loop holes and raise license fees across the board to make up with the shortfall ..people are driving $50 ,000 pickups and the FWC is worried about 10 bucks ...wake up
1) They need to raise the turkey stamp price up some for residents to $25 and start being so afraid of their shadow with all the licence fees
2) beard length rule like I think Arkansas and Mississippi has ? Aka (no jakes )
3) no hens ..not even in fall
4) big big loophole with quota applications..people just buy the $26 management stamp to apply on any quota , duck , deer , turkey ..the FWC need to require they are fully licensed..hunting management , turkey , and any other applicable permit ..archery for deer , etc. . then skipping out on the rest until they get drawn ...then when grandma gets pulled for a permit they buy her everything and have her sit in the pick up truck ...while you go hunt ..and it's fully legal
From there watch and see , honestly I seriously think if things keep declining every single management area will be quota ..and eventually if things don't improve do what other states have done and lower the harvest total ... 1 gobbler a year is a hard pill to swallow , but if we take corrective measures we can avoid that
Quote from: Old Gobbler on March 01, 2023, 08:50:57 PM
Non resident hunters are not that much of a issue in Florida, if any issue at all ..once you start playing games with limiting non res , then your neighbor starts doing it then there is a non res pissing war ..
the problem is ..simply turkey hunting is awesome and word has got out
The quota system is a JOKE , they let you to bring a hunting guest ..so what people are doing is getting everyone in their family a application ...the state knows about it but they want the money ...hunting guests was never allowed until they yanked the transferability of permits ..they took one step forward ..and then a step back on that ..quit with the games , legitimately close up the gaming loop holes and raise license fees across the board to make up with the shortfall ..people are driving $50 ,000 pickups and the FWC is worried about 10 bucks ...wake up
1) They need to raise the turkey stamp price up some for residents to $25 and start being so afraid of their shadow with all the licence fees
2) beard length rule like I think Arkansas and Mississippi has ? Aka (no jakes )
3) no hens ..not even in fall
From there watch and see , honestly I seriously think if things keep declining every single management area will be quota ..and eventually if things don't improve do what other states have done and lower the harvest total ... 1 gobbler a year is a hard pill to swallow , but if we take corrective measures we can avoid that
Shannon the only hens legal in Florida, Fall or Spring, are bearded hens if I'm not mistaken. I doubt very many hens get killed here in Florida. I have only known one hen to be killed in my 40+ years of hunting turkeys here in Florida. She had a 9" beard.
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These state agencies better focus on more than just reducing seasons and harvest. As shared previously, Arkansas is the prime example. No jakes, no fall hunting, reduced days, later openers..... for years. Greatly reduced harvest as designed. And the decline continued. Aggressive habitat improvements and balancing predator #s or otherwise it will be "peeing in the wind". Absolutely we should be conservative in when we remove gobblers, but there better be much more to it.
Quote from: snoman4 on March 01, 2023, 09:02:12 PM
Quote from: Old Gobbler on March 01, 2023, 08:50:57 PM
Non resident hunters are not that much of a issue in Florida, if any issue at all ..once you start playing games with limiting non res , then your neighbor starts doing it then there is a non res pissing war ..
the problem is ..simply turkey hunting is awesome and word has got out
The quota system is a JOKE , they let you to bring a hunting guest ..so what people are doing is getting everyone in their family a application ...the state knows about it but they want the money ...hunting guests was never allowed until they yanked the transferability of permits ..they took one step forward ..and then a step back on that ..quit with the games , legitimately close up the gaming loop holes and raise license fees across the board to make up with the shortfall ..people are driving $50 ,000 pickups and the FWC is worried about 10 bucks ...wake up
1) They need to raise the turkey stamp price up some for residents to $25 and start being so afraid of their shadow with all the licence fees
2) beard length rule like I think Arkansas and Mississippi has ? Aka (no jakes )
3) no hens ..not even in fall
From there watch and see , honestly I seriously think if things keep declining every single management area will be quota ..and eventually if things don't improve do what other states have done and lower the harvest total ... 1 gobbler a year is a hard pill to swallow , but if we take corrective measures we can avoid that
Shannon the only hens legal in Florida, Fall or Spring, are bearded hens if I'm not mistaken. I doubt very many hens get killed here in Florida. I have only known one hen to be killed in my 40+ years of hunting turkeys here in Florida. She had a 9" beard.
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turkey of either sex is legal in some Archery and gun wma's areas (I won't name them ) they are limited ..that needs to be yanked ..it's a crazy loop hole even though the state regs prohibit it
Bearded hens .. that's a deal where I think a judgement from a biological standpoint needs to be made .. something Florida doesn't do they simply do whatever they want
Quote from: Old Gobbler on March 01, 2023, 09:21:55 PM
Quote from: snoman4 on March 01, 2023, 09:02:12 PM
Quote from: Old Gobbler on March 01, 2023, 08:50:57 PM
Non resident hunters are not that much of a issue in Florida, if any issue at all ..once you start playing games with limiting non res , then your neighbor starts doing it then there is a non res pissing war ..
the problem is ..simply turkey hunting is awesome and word has got out
The quota system is a JOKE , they let you to bring a hunting guest ..so what people are doing is getting everyone in their family a application ...the state knows about it but they want the money ...hunting guests was never allowed until they yanked the transferability of permits ..they took one step forward ..and then a step back on that ..quit with the games , legitimately close up the gaming loop holes and raise license fees across the board to make up with the shortfall ..people are driving $50 ,000 pickups and the FWC is worried about 10 bucks ...wake up
1) They need to raise the turkey stamp price up some for residents to $25 and start being so afraid of their shadow with all the licence fees
2) beard length rule like I think Arkansas and Mississippi has ? Aka (no jakes )
3) no hens ..not even in fall
From there watch and see , honestly I seriously think if things keep declining every single management area will be quota ..and eventually if things don't improve do what other states have done and lower the harvest total ... 1 gobbler a year is a hard pill to swallow , but if we take corrective measures we can avoid that
Shannon the only hens legal in Florida, Fall or Spring, are bearded hens if I'm not mistaken. I doubt very many hens get killed here in Florida. I have only known one hen to be killed in my 40+ years of hunting turkeys here in Florida. She had a 9" beard.
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turkey of either sex is legal in some Archery and gun wma's areas (I won't name them ) they are limited ..that needs to be yanked ..it's a crazy loop hole even though the state regs prohibit it
Bearded hens .. that's a deal where I think a judgement from a biological standpoint needs to be made .. something Florida doesn't do they simply do whatever they want
Never knew they were legal in some of the WMAS. They aren't up here in north east or north central in any that I know of or at least the ones I've hunted in past years. Hens, other than bearded, have never been legal on private lands that I know of.
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Quote from: Old Gobbler on February 26, 2023, 05:20:44 PM
We have several Titanic issues facing Florida
1) is that the FWC is clueless ...did you know they only harvest about 500 turkeys in the entire state wma's !!!!And that half are really hybrids or eastern ..the rest of the private land is being developed at a alarming rate ..we got 21 million people in the state and they project a 45 million population by 2050 ...if you haven't turkey hunted in Florida...hope you plan on doing it soon !!
Central Florida Guides are getting $3000 per gobbler , I was informed there is a guide service that gets that in groups of 4-6 ...all 6 weekends of the season and averages %40 success! And gets 3 grand ..I told people 10 years ago this would happen ..and I'll tell you guides get $2800 in Florida for fulvous tree ducks ...in 5 years time it will be 5-7 thousand dollars for a real Osceola..and it will keep going up
Some of the better leases south of Orlando get $10,000 per year per member and you have to share that with other lease holders and that's for 2 birds
About the only thing they have done right is move the "line" of demarcation for Osceolas to near Jacksonville..a move yet again based on zero scientific data ..the foremost expert (Dr. Lovett Williams) and every real turkey hunter in the state will tell you Orlando and south for the real deal ! Anyways this simple act of buffoonery , may have saved Osceolas from over hunting as every cracker with a airboat is guiding out of staters to "get thier slam" all over north Florida ..and trust me the guide$ will tell you different! But those birds north of Orlando are hybrids, some a tiny bit , some a way bit
2) here is the hard facts ... with in 15 to 20 years all of the suitable land that is coded or will be coded for residential development will slowly checkerboard the horizon..urban sprawl will creep ever so quickly ...those WMA's that butt up to private land and pull birds in off those leases ..well the WMA's will be the only place with habitat..cause those leases will be shopping malls , apartment buildings , warehouses freeways and the like ...
20- 30 years from now Florida will issue tags like they do for Dall Ram and Elk in other states ..the preference points will go through the roof ..look for the FWC to start doing some crazy stuff once they figure out how bad the situation really is with the new online harvest check-in that is mandatory
BTW Alaska kills more Dall Ram than Florida kills turkeys on WMA's enjoy turkey hunting while you can ...
Hear me now .. believe me later
100% truth. All the worry about is money. We see it with charter fishing. They get extra days n early start dates on certain species of fish. Itll be like Canada soon. Only way hunt up there is with a guide if you are not a resident. But florida will make the rule you can only harvest fish with a guide or kill turkeys with a guide. And thatll be for residents as well.
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Quote from: Old Gobbler on March 01, 2023, 08:50:57 PM
Non resident hunters are not that much of a issue in Florida, if any issue at all ..once you start playing games with limiting non res , then your neighbor starts doing it then there is a non res pissing war ..
the problem is ..simply turkey hunting is awesome and word has got out
The quota system is a JOKE , they let you to bring a hunting guest ..so what people are doing is getting everyone in their family a application ...the state knows about it but they want the money ...hunting guests was never allowed until they yanked the transferability of permits ..they took one step forward ..and then a step back on that ..quit with the games , legitimately close up the gaming loop holes and raise license fees across the board to make up with the shortfall ..people are driving $50 ,000 pickups and the FWC is worried about 10 bucks ...wake up
1) They need to raise the turkey stamp price up some for residents to $25 and start being so afraid of their shadow with all the licence fees
2) beard length rule like I think Arkansas and Mississippi has ? Aka (no jakes )
3) no hens ..not even in fall
4) big big loophole with quota applications..people just buy the $26 management stamp to apply on any quota , duck , deer , turkey ..the FWC need to require they are fully licensed..hunting management , turkey , and any other applicable permit ..archery for deer , etc. . then skipping out on the rest until they get drawn ...then when grandma gets pulled for a permit they buy her everything and have her sit in the pick up truck ...while you go hunt ..and it's fully legal
From there watch and see , honestly I seriously think if things keep declining every single management area will be quota ..and eventually if things don't improve do what other states have done and lower the harvest total ... 1 gobbler a year is a hard pill to swallow , but if we take corrective measures we can avoid that
One thing I'll shout from the roof tops is Florida sorely needs to cap non residents when it comes to draw hunts. It's not fair a guy who lives in LaBelle is able to hunt his local state forest the same frequency as some dude from Mississippi. I would cap NR at 8%. Give the locals more opportunity. Sorry non residents either lace up your boots and hit Corbett or pay for private.
Quote from: WV Flopper on March 01, 2023, 08:13:54 PM
LOL, if you don't recognize the LOSS in opportunity your not a turkey hunter. End of discussion for me.
So you need the govt and their seasons to force you to travel around lol
30 days to hunt is 30 days of hunting. Period
If you can't self control and pick where you want to go and when, and need two separate 15 day seasons to force your decision to travel then so be it.
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Quote from: TurkeyReaper69 on March 01, 2023, 11:35:10 PM
Quote from: Old Gobbler on March 01, 2023, 08:50:57 PM
Non resident hunters are not that much of a issue in Florida, if any issue at all ..once you start playing games with limiting non res , then your neighbor starts doing it then there is a non res pissing war ..
the problem is ..simply turkey hunting is awesome and word has got out
The quota system is a JOKE , they let you to bring a hunting guest ..so what people are doing is getting everyone in their family a application ...the state knows about it but they want the money ...hunting guests was never allowed until they yanked the transferability of permits ..they took one step forward ..and then a step back on that ..quit with the games , legitimately close up the gaming loop holes and raise license fees across the board to make up with the shortfall ..people are driving $50 ,000 pickups and the FWC is worried about 10 bucks ...wake up
1) They need to raise the turkey stamp price up some for residents to $25 and start being so afraid of their shadow with all the licence fees
2) beard length rule like I think Arkansas and Mississippi has ? Aka (no jakes )
3) no hens ..not even in fall
4) big big loophole with quota applications..people just buy the $26 management stamp to apply on any quota , duck , deer , turkey ..the FWC need to require they are fully licensed..hunting management , turkey , and any other applicable permit ..archery for deer , etc. . then skipping out on the rest until they get drawn ...then when grandma gets pulled for a permit they buy her everything and have her sit in the pick up truck ...while you go hunt ..and it's fully legal
From there watch and see , honestly I seriously think if things keep declining every single management area will be quota ..and eventually if things don't improve do what other states have done and lower the harvest total ... 1 gobbler a year is a hard pill to swallow , but if we take corrective measures we can avoid that
One thing I'll shout from the roof tops is Florida sorely needs to cap non residents when it comes to draw hunts. It's not fair a guy who lives in LaBelle is able to hunt his local state forest the same frequency as some dude from Mississippi. I would cap NR at 8%. Give the locals more opportunity. Sorry non residents either lace up your boots and hit Corbett or pay for private.
Residents should have some priority I agree.
But, as said time and time again, if states had coordinated openers (idk how big to make the zones etc etc. but, I'll never be convinced the birds on one side of an interstate breed differently than birds on the other side.) some pressure would naturally spread out and not require such stringent restrictions to keep popping up.
Louisiana duck season is one example of ridiculousness. Two zones separate the state. Mostly East and west too, when birds migrate north/south. This puts a lot of pressure in one part of the state for the first week. The earliest opener half of the state gets the amount of hunters of the whole state.
It just don't make sense to me. But hey, I'm not a real hunter
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Screw it i take everything back i said! Let seasons be super long with extra tags available. I'm ready to kill 100 long beards this year by myself. (Its been to long since I killed the last one)
South Florida gets pounded and yes a lot has to do with it being the only place with Osceola
However it also gets a ton of pressure just due to people wanting to get down there and hunt an extra week or two of the year!!! I'd almost wager that's the bigger portion of the pressure too now days
If it wasn't a lot of those people could hunt Osceolas in parts of the state that open later.
But, for good reason the earlier hunts are harder to draw.
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Quote from: WV Flopper on February 28, 2023, 08:22:53 PM
Just for thought....South Florida has tomatoes hanging on a plant before I have put a plant in the ground.
In Florida to help the resources the best I think you can, lobby to make one state start time. Obviously it would be the later and align with the north.
I personally think this would help a little, but not much. It will turn your remaining non quota hunt areas into quota hunt areas real quick. In 3 years all of the public areas would be quota only.
And, not all of your Non Res hunters are sleeping in their truck or tent. Lots of us old guys like a bed, shower, AC, set down dinner. And maybe we pay money into Pittman Robertson in our home state that goes to others as well.
Public, is public.
By doing that you'd almost perfectly open it the same as when Mississippi does. How ironic
I also don't understand how spreading out pressure will make MORE areas quota hunts. Please elaborate on that angle, what am I missing?
Possibly open up more areas into peoples radar?
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Quote from: Old Gobbler on March 01, 2023, 08:50:57 PM
Non resident hunters are not that much of a issue in Florida, if any issue at all ..once you start playing games with limiting non res , then your neighbor starts doing it then there is a non res pissing war ..
the problem is ..simply turkey hunting is awesome and word has got out
The quota system is a JOKE , they let you to bring a hunting guest ..so what people are doing is getting everyone in their family a application ...the state knows about it but they want the money ...hunting guests was never allowed until they yanked the transferability of permits ..they took one step forward ..and then a step back on that ..quit with the games , legitimately close up the gaming loop holes and raise license fees across the board to make up with the shortfall ..people are driving $50 ,000 pickups and the FWC is worried about 10 bucks ...wake up
1) They need to raise the turkey stamp price up some for residents to $25 and start being so afraid of their shadow with all the licence fees
2) beard length rule like I think Arkansas and Mississippi has ? Aka (no jakes )
3) no hens ..not even in fall
4) big big loophole with quota applications..people just buy the $26 management stamp to apply on any quota , duck , deer , turkey ..the FWC need to require they are fully licensed..hunting management , turkey , and any other applicable permit ..archery for deer , etc. . then skipping out on the rest until they get drawn ...then when grandma gets pulled for a permit they buy her everything and have her sit in the pick up truck ...while you go hunt ..and it's fully legal
From there watch and see , honestly I seriously think if things keep declining every single management area will be quota ..and eventually if things don't improve do what other states have done and lower the harvest total ... 1 gobbler a year is a hard pill to swallow , but if we take corrective measures we can avoid that
A lot of good ideas in this
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Pennsylvania has a huge army of Turkey Hunters in that big State who without a doubt take part in the early Lottery phase for Spring Turkey in New Jersey.
Pennsylvania hunters will also compete for any Permits that are left over on the " over the counter" day in late March.
Too bad everything can be done online now. Who will type the fastest at 10am on that day to Snag as many Turkey Permits as possible in 1 or more Zones.
I know most replys are about Florida here- but it would be nice if the Northeast States all opened on the last Saturday of April.
Quote from: Greg Massey on February 25, 2023, 10:24:55 AM
I don't see this ever happening, way too much political involvement with these government agencies for this to ever happen. It's all about showing me the money we can generate from sales in each state. It has very little to do with the good of the turkeys. IMO.... It's been going on for years and it will continue.... IMO.... All geographical areas of the country have a difference in the start up of spring and of course this plays a part in the opening of the seasons... Some of these states take pride in being the first one to open for the spring turkey season...
Exactly. Very little to do with the turkeys at all. Follow the money.
What do you think this is doing to the private lease prices in Mississippi and other southern states with early openers? One Osceola guide I know has raised his price by $700 a hunt and still can't keep up with booking requests. One fella I know is paying $6 an acre for turkey only leases in another southern state. One guy was asking me to pay $8k for turkey rights to a place that had 5 gobbling turkeys on it last year.
I can assure you, the states aren't gonna line up and work together because each person who has the privilege of influencing those decisions has their hand in the cookie jar some way or another.
Sasquatch said,
"Regional start date idea isn't about making people happy
It's about helping the resource without being pounded all at once. Think South Florida
Tell me how that could be BAD for the resource?"
I have a hard time taking your posts serious. You advocate for making all turkey hunting start at the same time to better manage and help the birds to take pressure off them. Then you come to South Florida, hunt public land, before your home area or state opens. Practice what you preach, young man. If not, it's nothing more than hypocrisy.
.
Quote from: snoman4 on March 05, 2023, 06:49:07 PM
Sasquatch said,
"Regional start date idea isn't about making people happy
It's about helping the resource without being pounded all at once. Think South Florida
Tell me how that could be BAD for the resource?"
I have a hard time taking your posts serious. You advocate for making all turkey hunting start at the same time to better manage and help the birds to take pressure off them. Then you come to South Florida, hunt public land, before your home area or state opens. Practice what you preach, young man. If not, it's nothing more than hypocrisy.
Yep I sure did! And if the season was more aligned I wouldn't have! And that bird would've been saved
Because I ONLY did it because it's the ONLY thing open
Which is exactly my point!!! Align some season that that won't happen near as much!!
Or if it mattered to me to hunt south Florida I'd sacrifice hunting home and come anyway. Yet, the vast majority won't!'
I play the hand I'm dealt, I don't throw my cards away. Hence I didn't come for the 18th or later. I can't change the world on my own.
People will align their priorities, mine are to hunt as much as I can. No matter what state!! I hunt for days, could care less about the state I'm in unless I reach a limit first. If im not working I'm hunting, simple as that.
I'm glad you can read into a "what y'all think about this" and turn it into I said "my god ppl quit traveling and hunting!!!!"
Besides, why worry about me. I'm not a real turkey hunter so I hear
However thank you florida for giving me some extra hunt time! It was nice
No matter if I go or stay, the same amount of people would've hunted where I did. And who said I was on public land?
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So from what I'm seeing the season alignment is only to try and take pressure off of states for the openers? Once those in neighboring states get their limits or season closes they "have to" travel to the next state. It sounds more like an opening week(s) limited to residents only would keep the pressure down while not limiting opportunities by cutting seasons back.
The only traveling I'm able to do at this point, having young kids at home, is to a neighboring state but I have no issue with those who do travel for earlier openers.
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Quote from: Mallard1897 on March 05, 2023, 10:25:44 PM
So from what I'm seeing the season alignment is only to try and take pressure off of states for the openers? Once those in neighboring states get their limits or season closes they "have to" travel to the next state. It sounds more like an opening week(s) limited to residents only would keep the pressure down while not limiting opportunities by cutting seasons back.
The only traveling I'm able to do at this point, having young kids at home, is to a neighboring state but I have no issue with those who do travel for earlier openers.
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Yes essentially. Just no residents only section was in my idea. I see both sides there but, if the seasons aligned a little there'd just be less need to have residents only seasons as the pressure wouldn't be so narrowed down to begin with. However I also do understand a state should take care of their residents in some way also.
All I am trying to say is, if there was a way to balance regions (turkeys don't act different in every single state needing 49 separations) it would spread the pressure out. Now does that mean 4, 8, 12, 20 opening days? Who knows. It's a simple discussion that people can't wait to get emotional over and start putting words in other peoples mouth.
Put it to the extreme for clarity. If every state had a 1 day season, and all those seasons were separate days, each state would house the whole damn countries worth of hunters at a time. You could see the chaos that would bring!
Example. All south florida would have to do public land wise is make the draws for residents only that first week and it would make a big difference. (Even if that does affect me)
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Quote from: sasquatch1 on March 05, 2023, 08:27:04 PM
Quote from: snoman4 on March 05, 2023, 06:49:07 PM
Sasquatch said,
"Regional start date idea isn't about making people happy
It's about helping the resource without being pounded all at once. Think South Florida
Tell me how that could be BAD for the resource?"
I have a hard time taking your posts serious. You advocate for making all turkey hunting start at the same time to better manage and help the birds to take pressure off them. Then you come to South Florida, hunt public land, before your home area or state opens. Practice what you preach, young man. If not, it's nothing more than hypocrisy.
Yep I sure did! And if the season was more aligned I wouldn't have! And that bird would've been saved
Because I ONLY did it because it's the ONLY thing open
Which is exactly my point!!! Align some season that that won't happen near as much!!
Or if it mattered to me to hunt south Florida I'd sacrifice hunting home and come anyway. Yet, the vast majority won't!'
I play the hand I'm dealt, I don't throw my cards away. Hence I didn't come for the 18th or later. I can't change the world on my own.
People will align their priorities, mine are to hunt as much as I can. No matter what state!! I hunt for days, could care less about the state I'm in unless I reach a limit first. If im not working I'm hunting, simple as that.
I'm glad you can read into a "what y'all think about this" and turn it into I said "my god ppl quit traveling and hunting!!!!"
Besides, why worry about me. I'm not a real turkey hunter so I hear
However thank you florida for giving me some extra hunt time! It was nice
No matter if I go or stay, the same amount of people would've hunted where I did. And who said I was on public land?
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Where did I say you said people shouldn't travel? You used South Florida as a specific reference in this thread and pressure being taken off if everyone's season opened at the same time and that is what I specifically called you out on. In your blackbird thread you said you got your butt kicked on public so a natural assumption would that at some point you hunted public in South Florida.
Why should South Florida have to wait to hunt to align with other states? If you actually truly understood South Florida you would understand its unique habit and hunting seasons that open to align with the unique habit, both deer and turkey. Why do they open way earlier than every state for turkey? Why do they open deer season in late July as the deer are rutting? I'll give you a hint, it has to do with historical water levels when the young would be born to ensure highest survival rates of fawns and chicks.
I don't think non residents should be limited in Florida...trust me that can backfire horribly, as other states will return the favor ..and don't quickly
Honestly out of state hunters are hardly a drop in the bucket
Quotas are limited to %10 already for out of state guys
The real crowding down here , is quite frankly guys like me ...Floridians
They need to shore up some regs before it's too late
Quote from: snoman4 on March 05, 2023, 11:30:35 PM
Quote from: sasquatch1 on March 05, 2023, 08:27:04 PM
Quote from: snoman4 on March 05, 2023, 06:49:07 PM
Sasquatch said,
"Regional start date idea isn't about making people happy
It's about helping the resource without being pounded all at once. Think South Florida
Tell me how that could be BAD for the resource?"
I have a hard time taking your posts serious. You advocate for making all turkey hunting start at the same time to better manage and help the birds to take pressure off them. Then you come to South Florida, hunt public land, before your home area or state opens. Practice what you preach, young man. If not, it's nothing more than hypocrisy.
Yep I sure did! And if the season was more aligned I wouldn't have! And that bird would've been saved
Because I ONLY did it because it's the ONLY thing open
Which is exactly my point!!! Align some season that that won't happen near as much!!
Or if it mattered to me to hunt south Florida I'd sacrifice hunting home and come anyway. Yet, the vast majority won't!'
I play the hand I'm dealt, I don't throw my cards away. Hence I didn't come for the 18th or later. I can't change the world on my own.
People will align their priorities, mine are to hunt as much as I can. No matter what state!! I hunt for days, could care less about the state I'm in unless I reach a limit first. If im not working I'm hunting, simple as that.
I'm glad you can read into a "what y'all think about this" and turn it into I said "my god ppl quit traveling and hunting!!!!"
Besides, why worry about me. I'm not a real turkey hunter so I hear
However thank you florida for giving me some extra hunt time! It was nice
No matter if I go or stay, the same amount of people would've hunted where I did. And who said I was on public land?
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Where did I say you said people shouldn't travel? You used South Florida as a specific reference in this thread and pressure being taken off if everyone's season opened at the same time and that is what I specifically called you out on. In your blackbird thread you said you got your butt kicked on public so a natural assumption would that at some point you hunted public in South Florida.
Why should South Florida have to wait to hunt to align with other states? If you actually truly understood South Florida you would understand its unique habit and hunting seasons that open to align with the unique habit, both deer and turkey. Why do they open way earlier than every state for turkey? Why do they open deer season in late July as the deer are rutting? I'll give you a hint, it has to do with historical water levels when the young would be born to ensure highest survival rates of fawns and chicks.
You insinuated I shouldn't come down there since I obviously brought up concern about how it gets hammered. Also romp and stomp public was attempted years ago yes. It also opened my eyes to the crowds you people deal with. Unreal. I also realized how bad guys down there have it if they themselves want to go hunt other places. Their drive is very far before getting to the state line.
And I used south Florida as an example because it's by far the earliest opener and probably the most impacted dude to how much earlier it is than anywhere else. I could use Mississippi also but it's not such a dramatic early opener.
And if you have info to provide that's valuable add it . Such at water levels being a reason. No need to go off on tangents over a forum discussion.
You people act like I have the power to change the season and will next year, and take y'all's hunting away.
It is a thread for ideas to ponder. Yet I see nobody really has one other than saying how bad someone else's is.
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