NO red dot but actual scope is what I'm looking for. Pros and cons from those who have done it. I've been using a red dot on designated turkey gun for over a decade (Remington 870). I've got a gun that I won at pheasants forever banquet probably 15 years ago that I have never used (berretta a390). Thinking of putting an actual scope on it and it will be my new turkey gun. I have a luepold 1x4 that I could put on it. What are your thoughts to an actual scope?
Chad
Why do you want or need one?
Pros would be accuracy and enhanced view if needed.
Cons would be the extra weight and you have to be able to get in a solid shooting position to make a good shot.
I've made a few shots from awkward positions and quite a few left handed. The red dot is a good thing in those situations.
I have used mainly scopes for years, but i also use Green circle dot / red dot .... Scopes are really nice and have a range finding capability with the circle plex and diamond reticles. Scopes are good for people who have some eye sight problems especially for some of us older hunters. Nothing wrong with using a scope. It's all a matter of what you need in having a successful hunt. IMO ... If you want to try one i suggest you give it a try, you might be surprised. Sure it will add a little more weight to your gun, more so than a green/red dot ... Just don't ask me how many turkey guns i have ... :TooFunny:
How far are people shooting that they need a scope on a shotgun to kill a turkey???
Yes.....I use a scope on my CZ .17 HMR for squirrels and on my deer rifle.....but can't ever see the need for one on the Mossberg 500.
I use both Red Dot and scopes. I have a Leopold 1x4 VX Gold Ring on my Bottomland 870. I love it. Great field of view, quick acquisition, and dead center pattern. I think you will love a scoped Turkey gun. The important thing is make sure you use very solid rings, the new Turkey loads produce nasty recoil. I use Burris Tactical Rings on all my shotguns. Here is a pic of one of my scope set-ups. They all use the Burris Rings, they are solid and never move. Best of luck....
Quote from: scootac on December 23, 2022, 03:23:21 PM
How far are people shooting that they need a scope on a shotgun to kill a turkey???
Yes.....I use a scope on my CZ .17 HMR for squirrels and on my deer rifle.....but can't ever see the need for one on the Mossberg 500.
It's not a matter of distance with a scope. I am 62, have had some eye surgeries and enjoy the clarity and precision of using a scope. I harvest all my birds 35 yards on in. When I was young, I used the beads and rifled sights. Unfortunately nature changed my ability to use open sights. Red dots and scopes give me 100% confidence with my shots.....be safe, Happy Holidays...
Quote from: scootac on December 23, 2022, 03:23:21 PM
How far are people shooting that they need a scope on a shotgun to kill a turkey???
Yes.....I use a scope on my CZ .17 HMR for squirrels and on my deer rifle.....but can't ever see the need for one on the Mossberg 500.
Why use a scope gun for squirrel hunting? I used a homemade slingshot with buck shot for squirrel hunting and a sharp stick and knife for deer hunting :TooFunny:.
I have used a 4x scope. Always considered it a trade off. Very good for a well planned shot. Not so good for a quick spur of the moment encounter. No longer use one for turkey. I'm 76 and last season took 2 with an open sighted 870 12 ga and one with a red dotted 410. Within 30 yards everything works. I often use at least one decoy normally paced at 25 yards. The older I get the closer I like them. I have been blessed with both private and public opportunities. Good luck.
I recently purchased a Leupold VX Freedom 1.5-4x 20 mm, pig plex. I had it hydro dipped to match my SBE3. I have yet to Mount it and get it dialed in but I can't wait to do so. It looks totally BA.
My friend has used a scope for years and swears by it. I was going with a red dot but after much research I decided on the scope even if it adds an extra pound or two.
My reasoning was the ability to lock in the zero, also, for the ability to see the target better as eye sight deteriorates over time. My research on red dots vs scopes lead me to believe that in low light and heavy brush situations...can't go wrong with the scope.
Quote from: deathfoot on December 23, 2022, 04:57:54 PM
I recently purchased a Leupold VX Freedom 1.5-4x 20 mm, pig plex. I had it hydro dipped to match my SBE3. I have yet to Mount it and get it dialed in but I can't wait to do so. It looks totally BA.
My friend has used a scope for years and swears by it. I was going with a red dot but after much research I decided on the scope even if it adds an extra pound or two.
My reasoning was the ability to lock in the zero, also, for the ability to see the target better as eye sight deteriorates over time. My research on red dots vs scopes lead me to believe that in low light and heavy brush situations...can't go wrong with the scope.
Gonna be a great set-up......good luck with it...
Quote
Gonna be a great set-up......good luck with it...
Thank you. I can't wait.
The scope on a turkey has nothing to do with shooting distance and mostly to do with failing or worsening eyesight and also being able to adjust POA to POI . Also no batteries or reaching up to turn on - I know they have come a long ways on batteries and shake awake and such but I prefer a scope- I put a scope on my dedicated turkey gun when I couldn't line the front bead back sight and turkeys head up all at the same time!! Haven't looked back - my advice is go with a 1.5 to 4 and keep it on the lowest setting-4 power was a bit much and could be deceiving in the field - like mentioned get good rings and you should have no problem dialing it in - I liked mine so much I immediately bought a backup just in case. Watch eBay as most major scope manufacturers have quit making the dedicated turkey scope - look Simmons - bushnell- leupold- good luck!!
Very nice setup Tom.
Quote from: Wigsplitter on December 23, 2022, 05:30:56 PM
The scope on a turkey has nothing to do with shooting distance and mostly to do with failing or worsening eyesight and also being able to adjust POA to POI . Also no batteries or reaching up to turn on - I know they have come a long ways on batteries and shake awake and such but I prefer a scope- I put a scope on my dedicated turkey gun when I couldn't line the front bead back sight and turkeys head up all at the same time!! Haven't looked back - my advice is go with a 1.5 to 4 and keep it on the lowest setting-4 power was a bit much and could be deceiving in the field - like mentioned get good rings and you should have no problem dialing it in - I liked mine so much I immediately bought a backup just in case. Watch eBay as most major scope manufacturers have quit making the dedicated turkey scope - look Simmons - bushnell- leupold- good luck!!
Amen my friend, well put......
It all comes down to you using what's comfortable for you depending on your visual restrictions and/or limitations. I myself use both scope and red/green dots.
Go with what is best for you!
Quote from: Turkeybutt on December 23, 2022, 05:44:40 PM
It all comes down to you using what's comfortable for you depending on your visual restrictions and/or limitations. I myself use both scope and red/green dots.
Go with what is best for you!
Well put my friend...
Tom I get a little wood on the ball every now and then!
Quote from: Greg Massey on December 23, 2022, 03:35:01 PM
Why use a scope gun for squirrel hunting? I used a homemade slingshot with buck shot for squirrel hunting and a sharp stick and knife for deer hunting :TooFunny:.
Because I can't make those 378 yd head shots with open sights like I used too......and the squirrel's heads aren't getting any bigger!!!
I've been using a scope on one of my guns. It's a dusk till dawn model made by Bushnell.
It has 6" of eye relief, so i can mount it with the eyepiece even with end of receiver, which makes it nice.
1.75x4 power I think it is, and i just leave it at 1.75 and it is almost like open sights, and the circle x
cross hairs work very well for a turkeys head. I would say only drawback is it does add a little weight, but it is minimal. No batteries to worry about. And i mounted the scope with traditional weaver rings to
a low rail, so i can detach it easily, even in the field if necessary with a coin. I have removed and replaced it and it has returned to zero. I think a scope works very well up close when the pattern is still super tight, like a red dot does, and it doesn't cover up the bird like open sights or a bead can. I actually rather hunt with a bead, as I like simple, but a lot of guns just won't shoot dead on with tight chokes and loads. red-dots are probably the best, but i have an astigmatism that makes them a blob, and my eyesight isn't what it was, so I will take all the help i can get!
The past two seasons I used a 3-9x40 Zeiss Conquest on my turkey gun. I originally mounted it to pull duty in deer season with slugs, but the POA worked well enough that I could shoot turkey loads through it without any adjustment. While I would have preferred a slightly lower magnification for my actual shooting I didn't feel the 3 power hampered me that much, even at distances under 10 yards. The other part I really appreciated was the ability to forego binoculars. Turn the scope up to 9 power and I could ID birds, assess beard length and do anything else I would have used binos for, without carrying them slung around my neck. My next turkey gun, though, is rocking a hi-vis bead sight. Doesn't mean I'd turn down a 1-4 optic or something similar, but finding a saddle mount for a Mag-10 isn't the easiest thing on earth!
I have an older Pentax light seeker 2.5 on my 870 and it works great.
Quote from: PaLmbHngr on December 23, 2022, 11:03:09 PM
I have an older Pentax light seeker 2.5 on my 870 and it works great.
One of the best Turkey Scopes ever made. I had one years ago, a buddy convinced me to sell it. I regret that one.....
The red dot scope I have is one of the first red dots to came out. The dot is rather large. Its roughly 25 years old. I like using a scope for turkey. There have been times when one boogers on me and I cant get the scope on him and off he goes. Where if I was bead pointing my upland point and click experience would have got me the bird. So going to an actual scope I think will take longer to aim and shoot. I bought the kids a red/green dot for their youth 20 gage years ago and I like it very much. I thought of going that route. I just wondered what an actual scope would be like. I like the clarity of a scope. Also there have been days that the red dot and the red waddles combine. I've actually moved the dot off of the bird to see the dot then back on. If I go red dot again it will be one with green and other options. Thanks for the reply's. Merry Christmas to you all.
You have one of the best scopes for Turkeys imo. I love those and the old nikon turkey 1×4's..
Sight it in and you'll love it!
Quote from: chadly on December 24, 2022, 08:56:42 AM
The red dot scope I have is one of the first red dots to came out. The dot is rather large. Its roughly 25 years old. I like using a scope for turkey. There have been times when one boogers on me and I cant get the scope on him and off he goes. Where if I was bead pointing my upland point and click experience would have got me the bird. So going to an actual scope I think will take longer to aim and shoot. I bought the kids a red/green dot for their youth 20 gage years ago and I like it very much. I thought of going that route. I just wondered what an actual scope would be like. I like the clarity of a scope. Also there have been days that the red dot and the red waddles combine. I've actually moved the dot off of the bird to see the dot then back on. If I go red dot again it will be one with green and other options. Thanks for the reply's. Merry Christmas to you all.
You are correct, a scope will cost you birds. Mobile birds are hard to pick up and keep in a scope. They add weight also. I do not see a day I will ever use a scope for shotgun turkey hunting. A crossbow, yes. My buddy uses a scope and over 40+ years of hunting together I bet I have witnessed his scope costing him 20-25 birds, and of those I have killed probably half of them as they were on their way out after he failed to "get on them".
I have several dedicated turkey rigs. Two are scoped, two have red dots, one has fiber optic open sights and the last has double beads. I use them all. Nothing wrong with scopes as long as they are zeroed properly and practiced with a bit before using them in the field. I have killed the most turkeys with red dot sights but have no qualms hunting with a scoped turkey rig. Keep the power low say 1 to about 4 and you are in the right ballpark. My favorite is my Leupold VX I 1 x 4 20mm Shotgun scope on my Benelli Nova 20 ga.
Quote from: WildTigerTrout on December 25, 2022, 06:22:55 PM
I have several dedicated turkey rigs. Two are scoped, two have red dots, one has fiber optic open sights and the last has double beads. I use them all. Nothing wrong with scopes as long as they are zeroed properly and practiced with a bit before using them in the field. I have killed the most turkeys with red dot sights but have no qualms hunting with a scoped turkey rig. Keep the power low say 1 to about 4 and you are in the right ballpark. My favorite is my Leupold VX I 1 x 4 20mm Shotgun scope on my Benelli Nova 20 ga.
That's a perfect scope for Turkey......
I agree Tom007. I looked around for quite some time until I found mine. I keep my eyes and ears out for these shotgun scopes! The new Freedom Series Leupold's even the low power variables are rifle scopes and parallax adjusted for 150 yards. The older Leupold shotgun scopes are adjusted for 75 yards.
Amen my friend.....
[/quote]
You are correct, a scope will cost you birds. Mobile birds are hard to pick up and keep in a scope. They add weight also. I do not see a day I will ever use a scope for shotgun turkey hunting. A crossbow, yes. My buddy uses a scope and over 40+ years of hunting together I bet I have witnessed his scope costing him 20-25 birds, and of those I have killed probably half of them as they were on their way out after he failed to "get on them".
[/quote]
I've got a friend who would argue this point until the end of time. He swears by a scope. Pull the gun up, see the plex on red and pull the trigger. Running, standing, walking..whatever.
I haven't hunted with one yet. But I can't wait to get my rig set up. With the right scope, you can pull up and see clear as having a bead. Per him. Which from looking through mine before mounting it..I have a hard time arguing with him. Time will tell. But I think a scope on 1.5 would be just as easy to locate a Tom as a red dot.
If I'm in Arizona tho..and it fails. I'll chunk it on the way back to Virginia. Until then. I'm super excited about my scope.
I posted on this already on #8 but will add this. When I first tried the scope route I bought a fairly inexpensive saddle mount for my 870. For me a very bad idea since when I overtightened it (normal for me) it caused the gun to malfunction. Gave the mount to a friend who used it on another gun and he had the same result and he didn't believe he overtightened. We tossed the saddle mount. I then bought a cantilever barrel and mounted the scope with no further problems. I still have the cantilever barrel and 4x Simmons but only use it for deer or hogs after installing an open choke to shoot slugs. Works great for that. Always remember that the scope will be a trade off in both weight and field of view. Good luck. :OGturkeyhead:
Deathfoot,
Your friend may well be right, because I am making my full judgement on one guy's experience. I have only looked through his. He very well may have a poor set up and using the wrong scope. After reading some of these discussions it dinally dawned on me I was using a pretty limited experience to make that call. I hope it works out for you. At least your doing yur research
Great discussions here. When us older guys starting hunting years ago, ventilated ribs, round barrels with single or double beads was what we all used. I never thought I would ever add an optic to my Turkey gun. Nature forced me to look into optics. My eyesight stated to change over time, thus I added optics to my Turkey guns. Hers the simple positive/negatives regarding scopes:
Positives: Centers POI, Better sight picture for ailing eyes, consistent patterns, pick up light during daybreak.
Negatives: Field of view limitations, moving target acquisition difficulties, adds gun weight, possible lens reflection. It all comes down to personal wants and needs to make us all better hunters. Red dots, scopes, rifled sights or beads will all kill turkeys......be safe
I've used a Simmons 4x scope for many years and never had a problem. I do plan on setting up a new 20 gauge with a red dot this year mostly for the weight savings as I want this rig to be as light as possible.
Quote from: chadly on December 24, 2022, 08:56:42 AM
I like using a scope for turkey. There have been times when one boogers on me and I cant get the scope on him and off he goes.
This is the single reason I do not use a scope or similar device for turkey hunting. Back when the "scopes for turkey hunting" fad began several decades ago, I figured I would give it a try. It took a few instances of well-within-range, moving gobblers being missed because I could not get the scope/holosight/red-dot on them before I realized that I was much better off using beads. Of course, even at 71, my eyesight is still fairly good so I don't as of yet feel the need to worry about being able to aim down a vent-rib with beads. After sixty years of shooting that way, I am just more comfortable and confident in continuing to do so. On the other hand, I also fully understand why others may prefer, or even need, some other type of aiming device.
In addition, I have a couple of good turkey guns that I currently don't use because their points-of-aim relative to points-of impact are not centered. I also have multiple friends that have the same problem with their guns. That especially seems to be a recurring problem with the newer guns for some reason. The need for some alternative sighting device is pretty obvious is those situations.
QuoteIn addition, I have a couple of good turkey guns that I currently don't use because their points-of-aim relative to points-of impact are not centered. I also have multiple friends that have the same problem with their guns. That especially seems to be a recurring problem with the newer guns for some reason. The need for some alternative sighting device is pretty obvious is those situations.
HMMM, yeah that's it we all picked up the wrong guns in SD last spring..... :TooFunny:
Quote from: eggshell on December 27, 2022, 01:44:46 PM
QuoteIn addition, I have a couple of good turkey guns that I currently don't use because their points-of-aim relative to points-of impact are not centered. I also have multiple friends that have the same problem with their guns. That especially seems to be a recurring problem with the newer guns for some reason. The need for some alternative sighting device is pretty obvious is those situations.
HMMM, yeah that's it we all picked up the wrong guns in SD last spring..... :TooFunny:
Did you have to bring that little misadventure up?! Wish I could blame it on the gun but in my case I must reluctantly admit it was strictly "operator error"...
As we get closer to the upcoming season, this "operator" is starting to be a bit concerned about continuing that missing streak. ...Maybe it's time to reconsider my position on scopes on turkey guns... ::) ;D
I have a Loupold* turkey Plex Scope that I love, real easy to see the reticle, don't regret buying it at all. My eyes have gotten to where I couldn't even see carbon fiber sites anymore so I had to do something. Edit: voice type is horrible.
Sent from my moto g pure using Tapatalk
Quote from: Sir-diealot on January 01, 2023, 04:49:49 PM
I have a Loupold* turkey Plex Scope that I love, real easy to see the reticle, don't regret buying it at all. My eyes have gotten to where I couldn't even see carbon fiber sites anymore so I had to do something. Edit: voice type is horrible.
Sent from my moto g pure using Tapatalk
I've often wondered why leupold doesn't make a camo scope for such an occasion. It's the only scope I'll buy. And I have my freedom VX 1 dipped because of that reason. The Turkey plex is also no longer available so I went with the pig plex. I can't wait to site it in and get in the turkey woods this spring!!
Quote from: deathfoot on January 01, 2023, 05:01:23 PM
Quote from: Sir-diealot on January 01, 2023, 04:49:49 PM
I have a Loupold* turkey Plex Scope that I love, real easy to see the reticle, don't regret buying it at all. My eyes have gotten to where I couldn't even see carbon fiber sites anymore so I had to do something. Edit: voice type is horrible.
Sent from my moto g pure using Tapatalk
I've often wondered why leupold doesn't make a camo scope for such an occasion. It's the only scope I'll buy. And I have my freedom VX 1 dipped because of that reason. The Turkey plex is also no longer available so I went with the pig plex. I can't wait to site it in and get in the turkey woods this spring!!
I have wondered about that scope. Let me know how it works out.
I have the simmons pro diamond on my 20 ga and love it. Burris FF3 on another gun too and its great also but has battery which could fail
Quote from: deathfoot on January 01, 2023, 05:01:23 PM
Quote from: Sir-diealot on January 01, 2023, 04:49:49 PM
I have a Loupold* turkey Plex Scope that I love, real easy to see the reticle, don't regret buying it at all. My eyes have gotten to where I couldn't even see carbon fiber sites anymore so I had to do something. Edit: voice type is horrible.
Sent from my moto g pure using Tapatalk
I've often wondered why leupold doesn't make a camo scope for such an occasion. It's the only scope I'll buy. And I have my freedom VX 1 dipped because of that reason. The Turkey plex is also no longer available so I went with the pig plex. I can't wait to site it in and get in the turkey woods this spring!!
It seems like the scope companies veered away from making Turkey specific scopes for some reason. Years ago, there were many great options for Turkey hunters: Pentax Lightseeker in camo, Nikon Monarch Turkey Plex Camo, Leopold had a few Turkey Specific Scopes, Bushnell etc. A few years ago Weaver made a camo Turkey Scope in camo that was discontinued. I think the Red Dot craze took over for scope sales, thus they started disappearing from the market. Thankfully you can still find them used......
I've got a Remington 870 /12 ga. shotgun setup with a saddle mount and Nikon Turkey Pro scope and I've never had any problems with the saddle mount or the scope. I've got a Remington 870 /20 ga. shotgun setup with saddle mount and Simmons pro diamond and I've never had a problem with the saddle mount and the scope. Both saddle mounts also give you the opportunity to still see your beads on the guns. The Simmons are good scopes. I also have a older Weaver turkey scope, Bushnell, Redhead and BSA ... I have a couple Simmons Pro Diamond scopes called the Master Series that a lot of you probably have never seen or didn't know they made these scopes back in the day with illuminating pro diamond that you can increase the intensity of the pro diamond just like a red dot ... amazing scopes for their times. Like i told y'all earlier in the post i have a collection of these turkey scopes.. LOL. BLACK RIVER PRECISION LLC ... he builds some of the best turkey shotguns that money can buy and he uses saddle mounts on his builds ... SO i just don't want saddle mounts getting a bad wrap ... It all has to do with the choice of what you want and how it's setup in my opinion. Anyone who wants to see my builds, just shoot me a PM and i will be glad to show you...
I never had problems on the older 870's with the metal trigger groups, but the newer ones they
made with the plastic ones I have had issues with. If you tightened them down enough that the saddle
wouldn't move, it squeezed the receiver sides together and made the feeding malfunction. I
didn't have that issue with the older 870's. I never tried one on any of the Mossbergs, so I don't
know if they are prone to the same thing, being they have plastic trigger groups also, but I know guys that
have them on and they haven't had that issue at all.
Sir-diealot
I will definitely keep you posted. I'm hoping to get it dialed in the next month or so.
I've been using a Bushnell Trophy XLT scope in APG camo on my turkey gun for over three years now. The scope is 1.75-4 power scope, though I only use the lower power setting when hunting. Prior to mounting this scope on my shotgun I used a red dot scope for about seven years. I'll say this, since I started using scopes on my turkey guns I haven't missed a single bird that I've shot at. Can't say that about when I just used the open sights on the gun.
Imo with modern loads and chokes sights are typically needed. Scopes and red dot can be bumped off but with scopes you have no battery. Scopes are a better option imo and I have guns most ways. Guys state they have probs with moving birds. Sounds perhaps they aren't set properly. A good cheek weld with a properly adjusted comb and you're looking exactly through the scope. I see that as a non issue.
Quote from: Bowguy on January 04, 2023, 11:11:57 AM
Imo with modern loads and chokes sights are typically needed. Scopes and red dot can be bumped off but with scopes you have no battery. Scopes are a better option imo and I have guns most ways. Guys state they have probs with moving birds. Sounds perhaps they aren't set properly. A good cheek weld with a properly adjusted comb and you're looking exactly through the scope. I see that as a non issue.
Or they have the scope turned up to high.
Quote from: Bowguy on January 04, 2023, 11:11:57 AM
Imo with modern loads and chokes sights are typically needed. Scopes and red dot can be bumped off but with scopes you have no battery. Scopes are a better option imo and I have guns most ways. Guys state they have probs with moving birds. Sounds perhaps they aren't set properly. A good cheek weld with a properly adjusted comb and you're looking exactly through the scope. I see that as a non issue.
I would agree. I shoot better with a scope regardless if the bird is moving or not and it has never cost me a turkey.
Quote from: Sir-diealot on January 04, 2023, 04:30:01 PM
Quote from: Bowguy on January 04, 2023, 11:11:57 AM
Imo with modern loads and chokes sights are typically needed. Scopes and red dot can be bumped off but with scopes you have no battery. Scopes are a better option imo and I have guns most ways. Guys state they have probs with moving birds. Sounds perhaps they aren't set properly. A good cheek weld with a properly adjusted comb and you're looking exactly through the scope. I see that as a non issue.
Or they have the scope turned up to high.
I'd not see a reason to use anything but a very low power fixed scope. It's cheaper and the magnification isnt necessary but you're bringing up a point I hadn't thought of
Just me - over the years (since late 1970s) have used several combos. Scope was used on a 12 GA 870. My biggest flaw here was range estimation and tracking a moving bird. With a scope birds will look much closer than they actually are. I sometimes use a .410 with a Sig red dot. Fun and so far flawless. I will always consider this a 30 yard gun for me. When pushed came to shove in 2022 I took the 870 with the original double beaded Remington Turkey Express barrel on two long anticipated hunts. One hunt required airline travel and I didn't want any chance of scope or red dot misalignment from rough baggage handling. For me simpler is usually the best choice. Scopes and red dots will add an additional chance of a glitch.
Quote from: Bowguy on January 04, 2023, 11:04:33 PM
Quote from: Sir-diealot on January 04, 2023, 04:30:01 PM
Quote from: Bowguy on January 04, 2023, 11:11:57 AM
Imo with modern loads and chokes sights are typically needed. Scopes and red dot can be bumped off but with scopes you have no battery. Scopes are a better option imo and I have guns most ways. Guys state they have probs with moving birds. Sounds perhaps they aren't set properly. A good cheek weld with a properly adjusted comb and you're looking exactly through the scope. I see that as a non issue.
Or they have the scope turned up to high.
I'd not see a reason to use anything but a very low power fixed scope. It's cheaper and the magnification isnt necessary but you're bringing up a point I hadn't thought of
Mine is 1-4 but I just keep it at 1 I have not problems tracking then. I figure if I have it turned up to 4 I am more than likely shooting way to far anyway.
I put a Leupold Vx Freedom 1.5-4X20 Pig Plex on my Mossberg 935 ..Love it
You want something with good eye relief and have a solid hold / position on the gun. Don't want to get scope eye.. >:(
I guess it kind of depends on a lot of things... These are just my opinions and may not be true for everyone and every situation.
Generally Speaking:
In general, if you plan to set your gun up to maximize core pattern density with the most advanced shells and custom choke tubes available today (TSS or Longbeards if using lead – both incredible product advancements), I believe you will benefit from some sort of aiming device (whether it be scope or red dot type sight). Also, if you have a shotgun whose POI varies significantly relative to POA, then you will greatly benefit with the addition of an adjustable aiming device.
If you plan to hunt with old school style "standard" lead turkey loads (Winchester Super X, Remington Nitro or Premier, etc.) and use a moderately choked turkey tube, you might expect to see a pretty forgiving pattern that is still able to scrape together enough density to get the job done at 35 to 40 yards. Under this scenario, as long as you have a gun that shoots a pretty close POI to POA, you likely can get by just fine with a factory bead if you keep your shots under 40 yards (in some specific cases you might even do much better than "just fine" and it might really shine relative to other setups).
Scope Positives ( I had Nikon 1.5 – 4X on a saddle mount on an 870 Super Mag years ago):
Precisely dial POI to POA, weight (both plus and minus) – the weight will soak up a bit of recoil energy, unless you use a comb raising device the added height of the scope gets your cheek bone up off the stock taking some of the recoil bite away, confidence in that if the cross hairs are on target when the trigger is pulled the densest part of the pattern will be centered on the bird's head.
Scope Negatives:
Weight (a little heavier rig to tote around), scope and mount makes the gun a bit top heavier when resting it on your knee (it tends to want to flop over more easily), your eye must be very well aligned to the scope to get a good sight picture (somewhat limiting you if you have to be severely contorted to get off a shot), even with a low power large FOV model, you lose view of the "big picture" if one has managed to work in close.
Related Story:
I had one that was closing very quickly, but was on the opposite side of a steep ravine from me. I didn't think I would have time to cross the ravine and find a setup without risking busting the bird. When I set up at the location I was aware of the ravine and I had every intention of making the shot across the very steep sided ravine. The opposite edge was about 30 yards away and I figured he very well might hang up on the other side or at least present a shot opportunity. I sat close to the edge of my side of the ravine to keep the far side edge easily in range. Things did not pan out for me to get a good shot on the opposing ledge before he dropped into the steep cut. Due to the relatively flat ground on either side of the ravine and me slouched very low at the base of my tree, I quickly lost sight of him as he crossed the ravine. I could hear him closing the distance working through the ravine bottom and up my side. As he climbed my side of the ravine I tried to line up for the shot on where I thought he would pop up based on the sound of his footsteps. He would only be five yards away when he came out of the ravine. I could not look through my scope in order that I might be able to spot him immediately when his head started to emerge. He popped up a few feet off from where he sounded like he would show. So now he is nearly in my lap, head periscoped up, and I don't have my eye properly aligned to the scope. Now I have to manage to get my eye lined up with the scope, find him in the scope, and pull the shot off before he gets out of dodge (not easily done when one is on top of you). I managed to get on him and kill him before he bolted, but nearly missed him – barely caught him enough with the fringe of my pattern. If I were centered properly on him I would have decapitated him at that range. That was when I decided to go away from the scope. This was a somewhat unusual scenario, I was setup in a non-ideal situation, and I did wind up getting the bird,... however, at the moment he dropped into that ravine and out of sight I sure was wishing I had just a plain old bead when he popped up. So 95% of the time the scope would probably be absolutely wonderful – and I did comfortably kill a few birds with that scope setup prior to this event.
Red dot heads up type sight positives: (I currently have a FF3 on a 20 ga 870)
Lightweight, able to dial POI to POA, confidence in that if dot is on target at the shot, pattern center is heading on target, able to accurately shoot even when head is not perfectly aligned, able to see the entire "big picture" at all times (you lose this when you tunnel view into a scope), small units do not make gun top heavy when resting on your knee.
Red dot heads up type sight negatives:
Requires batteries that could fail at inopportune times, although I haven't knocked mine out of alignment, they appear to be more fragile than a scope and certainly less robust than a bead sight.
I have a couple of guns setup "old school" (bead, old style lead turkey loads, moderately choked) and the 20 ga 870 setup with a FF3 and configurations to shoot tight cores with several choke/load combos (HS13, HW15, TSS, and Longbeard). Although I don't currently use the scope mentioned in the story above, I still have it and the saddle mount. Who knows, may pull it out again one day to have something to piddle with. But if I could only go one way it would likely be forgiving setup with factory bead, or a heads up style red dot (like FF3) – especially if shooting a very tight patterning setup.
Quote from: gotitbad on January 05, 2023, 02:07:20 PM
I put a Leupold Vx Freedom 1.5-4X20 Pig Plex on my Mossberg 935 ..Love it
You want something with good eye relief and have a solid hold / position on the gun. Don't want to get scope eye.. >:(
I have this exact scope, which I had hydro dipped. I haven't mounted it yet. But I'm excited about it.
Old Dominion Tom: Great, well-organized, and well-thought-out post. Thanks for taking the time! :icon_thumright:
Quote from: Old Dominion Tom on January 05, 2023, 04:20:07 PM
I guess it kind of depends on a lot of things... These are just my opinions and may not be true for everyone and every situation.
Generally Speaking:
In general, if you plan to set your gun up to maximize core pattern density with the most advanced shells and custom choke tubes available today (TSS or Longbeards if using lead – both incredible product advancements), I believe you will benefit from some sort of aiming device (whether it be scope or red dot type sight). Also, if you have a shotgun whose POI varies significantly relative to POA, then you will greatly benefit with the addition of an adjustable aiming device.
If you plan to hunt with old school style "standard" lead turkey loads (Winchester Super X, Remington Nitro or Premier, etc.) and use a moderately choked turkey tube, you might expect to see a pretty forgiving pattern that is still able to scrape together enough density to get the job done at 35 to 40 yards. Under this scenario, as long as you have a gun that shoots a pretty close POI to POA, you likely can get by just fine with a factory bead if you keep your shots under 40 yards (in some specific cases you might even do much better than "just fine" and it might really shine relative to other setups).
Scope Positives ( I had Nikon 1.5 – 4X on a saddle mount on an 870 Super Mag years ago):
Precisely dial POI to POA, weight (both plus and minus) – the weight will soak up a bit of recoil energy, unless you use a comb raising device the added height of the scope gets your cheek bone up off the stock taking some of the recoil bite away, confidence in that if the cross hairs are on target when the trigger is pulled the densest part of the pattern will be centered on the bird's head.
Scope Negatives:
Weight (a little heavier rig to tote around), scope and mount makes the gun a bit top heavier when resting it on your knee (it tends to want to flop over more easily), your eye must be very well aligned to the scope to get a good sight picture (somewhat limiting you if you have to be severely contorted to get off a shot), even with a low power large FOV model, you lose view of the "big picture" if one has managed to work in close.
Related Story:
I had one that was closing very quickly, but was on the opposite side of a steep ravine from me. I didn't think I would have time to cross the ravine and find a setup without risking busting the bird. When I set up at the location I was aware of the ravine and I had every intention of making the shot across the very steep sided ravine. The opposite edge was about 30 yards away and I figured he very well might hang up on the other side or at least present a shot opportunity. I sat close to the edge of my side of the ravine to keep the far side edge easily in range. Things did not pan out for me to get a good shot on the opposing ledge before he dropped into the steep cut. Due to the relatively flat ground on either side of the ravine and me slouched very low at the base of my tree, I quickly lost sight of him as he crossed the ravine. I could hear him closing the distance working through the ravine bottom and up my side. As he climbed my side of the ravine I tried to line up for the shot on where I thought he would pop up based on the sound of his footsteps. He would only be five yards away when he came out of the ravine. I could not look through my scope in order that I might be able to spot him immediately when his head started to emerge. He popped up a few feet off from where he sounded like he would show. So now he is nearly in my lap, head periscoped up, and I don't have my eye properly aligned to the scope. Now I have to manage to get my eye lined up with the scope, find him in the scope, and pull the shot off before he gets out of dodge (not easily done when one is on top of you). I managed to get on him and kill him before he bolted, but nearly missed him – barely caught him enough with the fringe of my pattern. If I were centered properly on him I would have decapitated him at that range. That was when I decided to go away from the scope. This was a somewhat unusual scenario, I was setup in a non-ideal situation, and I did wind up getting the bird,... however, at the moment he dropped into that ravine and out of sight I sure was wishing I had just a plain old bead when he popped up. So 95% of the time the scope would probably be absolutely wonderful – and I did comfortably kill a few birds with that scope setup prior to this event.
Red dot heads up type sight positives: (I currently have a FF3 on a 20 ga 870)
Lightweight, able to dial POI to POA, confidence in that if dot is on target at the shot, pattern center is heading on target, able to accurately shoot even when head is not perfectly aligned, able to see the entire "big picture" at all times (you lose this when you tunnel view into a scope), small units do not make gun top heavy when resting on your knee.
Red dot heads up type sight negatives:
Requires batteries that could fail at inopportune times, although I haven't knocked mine out of alignment, they appear to be more fragile than a scope and certainly less robust than a bead sight.
I have a couple of guns setup "old school" (bead, old style lead turkey loads, moderately choked) and the 20 ga 870 setup with a FF3 and configurations to shoot tight cores with several choke/load combos (HS13, HW15, TSS, and Longbeard). Although I don't currently use the scope mentioned in the story above, I still have it and the saddle mount. Who knows, may pull it out again one day to have something to piddle with. But if I could only go one way it would likely be forgiving setup with factory bead, or a heads up style red dot (like FF3) – especially if shooting a very tight patterning setup.
Great info, well done. Lots of solid points here. I have a variety of optic set-ups, scopes and red dots. I use different guns for different terrain and styles of hunts from decoy sits (mostly in bad weather) to running & gunning covering lots of ground. There is one optic set-up that I think can eliminate some of the "negatives" outlined above. It involves a Red Dot sight mounted on the ventilated rib using a Meadow Creek Mount. Most of you know this mount, it has a plate that sits under the rib between the posts and will fit the particular Red Dot mounting plate. When you order the mount, you specify which Red Dot your using. Here's the positives on this set-up:
Sits as low as your going to get, pretty much on plane with the rib. This helps to eliminate the need for a comb or cheek-piece on the stock.
The Red Dot is mounted more forward on the gun according to the rib post locations and personal preference. I know a lot of guys think this set-up is "weird", but I actually like it and see its benefits. The fact that it sits further out on the gun gives you that field of view that scopes can hinder you with. The Red Dot is small, you can look right over or around it still keeping your head down on the comb. Sight acquisition on a moving bird is basically the same as using beads. This set up gives you perfect POA, and has the benefit of a good field of view.
Finally, this set up does not add much weight to your gun, unlike Scopes, base and ring mounts. There is no gun smithing required using this mount.
Finally, it all boils down to personal preference when it comes to optics. They all have there place for those who choose them. Be safe, great info.....
Fellas, not to intentionally deviate from the subject but something I wanted to add regarding scopes. We don't know who's reading or what info they're trying to gain. A consideration would be an aim point with a scope. If the turkey is very close the shot will hit lower than the scope a couple inches. Some people pick the feather/skin line as a poa. That may put the shot close to the beard depending on head angle of bird. You may need to adjust slightly for super close shots.
Quote from: Bowguy on January 06, 2023, 06:59:19 AM
Fellas, not to intentionally deviate from the subject but something I wanted to add regarding scopes. We don't know who's reading or what info they're trying to gain. A consideration would be an aim point with a scope. If the turkey is very close the shot will hit lower than the scope a couple inches. Some people pick the feather/skin line as a poa. That may put the shot close to the beard depending on head angle of bird. You may need to adjust slightly for super close shots.
This was an excellent addition to this post!
Tom007 - Totally agree with you on the Meadow Creek Mount! That is the mount I use with my FF3 on my 20 ga. 870. Nice compact package that leaves you a virtually unobstructed field of view. Very good point regarding scopes Bowguy!
Quote from: Old Dominion Tom on January 06, 2023, 01:23:58 PM
Tom007 - Totally agree with you on the Meadow Creek Mount! That is the mount I use with my FF3 on my 20 ga. 870. Nice compact package that leaves you a virtually unobstructed field of view. Very good point regarding scopes Bowguy!
Amen to all, great facts, great informational post......
Has anyone used a Burris Oracle X? https://southeasternbowhunting.com/best-crossbow-scope/ (https://southeasternbowhunting.com/best-crossbow-scope/) has one highlighted and that thing looks totally awesome, but it's extremely expensive.
I have a new in box nikon camo turkey scope I would consider selling.
I wanted to experiment with a scope on my 10 ga single barrel without spending a lot so i put a simmons 3-9x40 I had laying around on it one spring and it worked great on 3X. Then upgraded to a Leupold 2-7x32 rimfire model and always leave it on 2X. Shoot it once each year before season to check zero and it has not moved in 3 years of heavy use. I like this combo for first couple weeks of season until greenup and then shots are typically close enough to just use a bead on my O/U gun.
Been shooting a scoped shotgun for 3 or 4 years with zero issues .
Well . Murpheys law caught up yesterday am . While set up tight on a gobbler at lst light , I looked though my scope just to make sure all was good , I noticed my crosshairs where not straight . I grabbed the scope and it moved easily .. I had to leave a gobbling turkey to go re tighten rings and re sight . Glad I noticed it before I missed or even worse crippled one .
I have never used a scope on my turkey gun, maybe I would like it if I tried, but I like to keep everything plain and simple so probably won't ever know.
Quote from: Howieg on April 02, 2023, 03:17:12 PM
Been shooting a scoped shotgun for 3 or 4 years with zero issues .
Well . Murpheys law caught up yesterday am . While set up tight on a gobbler at lst light , I looked though my scope just to make sure all was good , I noticed my crosshairs where not straight . I grabbed the scope and it moved easily .. I had to leave a gobbling turkey to go re tighten rings and re sight . Glad I noticed it before I missed or even worse crippled one .
I don't know you [mention]Howieg [/mention]but I respect hell out of you for leaving the woods. Similar thing happened to me last year but it was a rear sight got loose. Front sight was taller than a traditional bead so I couldn't just remove the rear and hunt the bead. Had to leave the woods to get it right. A lot of folks would've kept right on hunting and figured, "It'll be close enough."
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I use a scope. I've been using a 1.5-4.5 scope since 1996.
My eyes were such back then that I had stopped being able to see the front pin and the turkey. Over the past 20 years or so, my nearsightedness has gotten better. However, I've kept the scope on. I like it.
About the only thing I can say against the scope is that it narrows my focus, and I lose depth perception. I've had a couple of instances where I got down and put my eye on the scope and the gobbler moved out into the field further than I was expecting.
Once, I had a gob coming down a fenceline, and as he passed behind a large tree, I got my gun up. When he came out the other side, I was expecting him to be less than 20 yards in front of me. He'd run out into the pasture and I had no idea of the distance. I took the shot at 80 yards, and managed to drop him. It wasn't enough to kill him. As I was picking myself up, he popped back up and started walking away. I had to chase after the bird and finally cornered him about 200 yards away.
Lesson: Always keep your head up enough to see the bird without the scope before taking the shot.
BTW: My eyes have improved enough that I'm going to give it a try with my Brown Bess this year. It has a 43 " barrel, and I can see the bayonet lug just fine.