Turkey hunting forum for turkey hunting tips

Wanted to get y'all's input from those of you more versed in box calls than myself. I have noticed over time my box calls get slick and develop a shiny looking burnished like finish at the friction points on lid. I feel like I notice a slight different in sound, but for sure a noticeable difference in playability as well as the calls ability to "hold onto" chalk. Is this normal to have the lid of calls slick off from use? I occasionally remove the old chalk with a dry paper towel and regularly reapply chalk in the course of a hunt as needed. I would appreciate y'all's input. Thank you!

Normal.
If you feel the need to do more than what you are doing, I would use fine grit sand paper on the bottom of the lid. Move the length of the lid (with the grain). Follow the contour/radius of the lid with little to no pressure on the paper. You aren't sanding the lid, just raising the grain, that's it. Few passes back and forth should be all you need.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

A good box call needs no chalk.    The more polished it is the easier to play.  I rarely chalk the lid on my A Paul box calls. 

Quote from: mmclain on March 06, 2022, 09:48:02 PM
A good box call needs no chalk.    The more polished it is the easier to play.  I rarely chalk the lid on my A Paul box calls.

This is solid advice.

Quote from: Spitten and drummen on March 06, 2022, 10:21:15 PM

Quote from: mmclain on March 06, 2022, 09:48:02 PM
A good box call needs no chalk.    The more polished it is the easier to play.  I rarely chalk the lid on my A Paul box calls.

This is solid advice.

Yes, the angel's wings are a good thing best left alone unless it really won't play, which is rare with good boxes.

Quote from: Spitten and drummen on March 06, 2022, 10:21:15 PM

Quote from: mmclain on March 06, 2022, 09:48:02 PM
A good box call needs no chalk.    The more polished it is the easier to play.  I rarely chalk the lid on my A Paul box calls.

This is solid advice.

This. I don't ever add chalk unless it's hen box, I'll occasionally lightly scotch bright those particular spots if I've been running a call in the house a LOT. I'm talking way more than you'd use in a whole day of hunting hard.

Sometimes chalk is a good thing and helps improve the tones and sounds of the call, it's about creating friction. I do agree with thinking you can over chalk a box also. You can lightly clean the paddle with piece of scotch brite.  I've never really took a piece of sandpaper to the bottom of a lid.   It's funny that some say a box doesn't need chalk, because i have never received one from a builder yet, that didn't have chalk on the lid and chalk with the call.. interesting .... these builders include, Al Paul, Marlin, TJ, Steve Mann, Darrin Dawkins, Lamar, Steve Savage, Scott Witter, Jeff Mckamey, Matt Van Cise, Eric Rice, Robert Cifft, Neal Cost, Preacherman and SS Custom calls just to name a few and the same with all the hen box builders all the ones I've ever received had chalk on the lid and chalk with the call ... I can say i have never received a special note from any of these builders telling me not to use chalk on the call either..

While a very good box call will run without chalk, I have never heard one or run one that sounded better compared to the same box call that had chalk.  To me, the call that runs well without chalk has been built well, which is to say ALL the mechanics of the call work well AND, very importantly, the wood used is cooperating.  To know the full potential of what a box call has to offer, chalk is essential.  It's a friction call and more friction, i.e. chalk, will inherently produce truer sound.  Yes, over time as the chalk wears away, a good box call will become smoother and easier to run, but easier to run doesn't necessarily translate into better sound.  If that was the case, wouldn't competiton calls not have any chalk on them.  Every single call I have either built, scored well with and/or was successful hunting with, offers better/crisper clucks and yelps when it has chalk...before the angle wings become real smooth.  I would encourage anyone who hunts with a box call to 'experiment' with no chalk and then chalking the call during the off season and decide for yourself.  I also believe there a certain aspect of this that is completely subjective, a lot of guys want a subtler sound and you will get that with minimal chalk/friction.

Quote from: culpeper on March 07, 2022, 10:45:46 AM
While a very good box call will run without chalk, I have never heard one or run one that sounded better compared to the same box call that had chalk.  To me, the call that runs well without chalk has been built well, which is to say ALL the mechanics of the call work well AND, very importantly, the wood used is cooperating.  To know the full potential of what a box call has to offer, chalk is essential.  It's a friction call and more friction, i.e. chalk, will inherently produce truer sound.  Yes, over time as the chalk wears away, a good box call will become smoother and easier to run, but easier to run doesn't necessarily translate into better sound.  If that was the case, wouldn't competiton calls not have any chalk on them.  Every single call I have either built, scored well with and/or was successful hunting with, offers better/crisper clucks and yelps when it has chalk...before the angle wings become real smooth.  I would encourage anyone who hunts with a box call to 'experiment' with no chalk and then chalking the call during the off season and decide for yourself.  I also believe there a certain aspect of this that is completely subjective, a lot of guys want a subtler sound and you will get that with minimal chalk/friction.

Great Post ... this pretty much sums it up.. the call is a friction type call..

Albert Paul had a good how to about this on his web page. Environmental factors in the field and during storage I'm sure play a role in how often chalk is needed. As well as style of running the call and of course frequency. Wood type might matter too. Culpepper can speak on this maybe.  Sanding the wings for someone younger/new to using boxes and calling, I would stay away from, except in extreme cases. I wouldn't get in that habit and I don't find it necessary. I think i've done it three times in 35 years of running boxes. Steve Mann told me the wings are golden, and I have found that to be true on several of my calls but not all of them, once again I'm sure wood species plays a role here too.

Quote from: Zobo on March 07, 2022, 11:32:41 AM
Sanding the wings for someone younger/new to using boxes and calling, I would stay away from, except in extreme cases. I wouldn't get in that habit and I don't find it necessary. I think i've done it three times in 35 years of running boxes.

Agreed
In all the years and in all the box calls I have had, I have done this a handful of times myself.  Something one would not want to make a habit of.
Same goes for the rails, if I have ever done anything with those it was a few light passes with a green scotchbrite pad and that is it.  Certainly no sand paper.  Don't want to do anything that would be detrimental to the tuning of the call, or how the lid rides over the rail.

Another thought I'm having now that I'm going through my boxes and looking at the ones I don't generally need to chalk is: does the rail thickness play a role in how often chalk is needed? Maybe I'm hallucinating but it seems like the calls with thinner rails need it less frequently.

You could look at it this way...some guys use a scratch pad for their glass pot calls, some use 150 grit sandpaper and others use 220, or otherwise, guess the same applies for a box call; if you think it sounds great without chalk then that's how you should treat it, and likewise with chalk, but handsdown, I wouldn't want ayone messing with the sound rails.

Quote from: Zobo on March 07, 2022, 12:11:13 PM
Another thought I'm having now that I'm going through my boxes and looking at the ones I don't generally need to chalk is: does the rail thickness play a role in how often chalk is needed? Maybe I'm hallucinating but it seems like the calls with thinner rails need it less frequently.

I think this is splitting hairs, but on the other thought, yes, some wood "eats" chalk more so than others.  For lids, Snakewood can eat chalk as well as some Bloodwood, whereas, Ipe, Walnut, Cherry and most domestics seem to hold it well/longer.  There is also a direct correlation to the wood used for the lid/paddle.  Heavier exotic wood species tend to affect chalk wear more than lighter domestic species.

I always found a good box will run longer(and better) without needing to add chalk than a poorly tuned box. My preference was to add chalk and run the box until it got the sound/playability I wanted, then I was good for a long while. If chalk is needed, a little goes a long way.

A truly world class call that comes out of Marlin or TJ's shop does not NEED chalk. They add chalk to their calls to help improve playability for the average user. A call without continuous chalking can be much more finicky, which requires more finesse, but it also gets much softer much easier. 

In fact, I'd consider a box that NEEDS chalk (other than hen boxes) to not be a very good call in comparison to one that doesn't, because it's using a crutch in the chalk. A weak point of the call being supported by the chalk

The chalk on the lid will be the first thing to grab any moisture when out hunting in the elements changing your calls tone. I want as little of it on my boxes as possible. Having a call that truly runs as effective without chalk is what you should strive for when picking up a box at a show.

"world class" ...guess all those other box call builders should close up their shops ;D   As I mentioned, this IS subjective and therefore there are many different views, but then that's what this is all about.

Question, I have never heard the term "Angel Wings" when referring to box calls, would somebody please explain if it is not going to pull this off topic. If it is please just drop me a message. Thank you.

Angel wings

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220308/2e747622a8445fe35dc28dcb9155a94f.jpg)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Quote from: vt35mag on March 08, 2022, 09:28:35 AM
Angel wings

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220308/2e747622a8445fe35dc28dcb9155a94f.jpg)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Great example ... i bet with the mix of red and white your pulling some great tones off those rails ... World Class Angle Wings

Quote from: vt35mag on March 08, 2022, 09:28:35 AM
Angel wings

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220308/2e747622a8445fe35dc28dcb9155a94f.jpg)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Thank you.

yep, that would be them!

Quote from: Greg Massey on March 08, 2022, 09:42:42 AM

Quote from: vt35mag on March 08, 2022, 09:28:35 AM
Angel wings

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220308/2e747622a8445fe35dc28dcb9155a94f.jpg)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Great example ... i bet with the mix of red and white your pulling some great tones off those rails ... World Class Angle Wings

OH....too funny :TooFunny:

Quote from: culpeper on March 08, 2022, 08:41:58 AM
"world class" ...guess all those other box call builders should close up their shops ;D

Not what I was implying at all Scott. Sorry if it came off that way, I just personally prefer a fiddle over a cost  style so that was my example. Many other makers put out world class calls that don't NEED chalk too. The best of the best send calls out of their shops often that aren't always necessarily world class, but they're always turkey and will hunt. 

This is taking the thread a different direction, but I find people often look at a call maker for the best call they've ever made, and ignore the worst. Someone once told me, "A call maker is only as good as his worst call he has let leave the shop." In ways this isn't entirely true as call makers can progress and better their craft, so their worst shouldn't be their entire judgment, but it is certainly something to consider.

Quote from: HookedonHooks on March 08, 2022, 10:01:00 AM

Quote from: culpeper on March 08, 2022, 08:41:58 AM
"world class" ...guess all those other box call builders should close up their shops ;D

Not what I was implying at all. Sorry if it came off that way, I just personally prefer a fiddle over a cost  style so that was my example. Many other makers put out world class calls that don't NEED chalk too. The best of the best send calls out of their shops often that aren't always necessarily world class, but they're always turkey and will hunt. 

This is taking the thread a different direction, but I find people often look at a call maker for the best call they've ever made, and ignore the worst. Someone once told me, "A call maker is only as good as his worst call he has let leave the shop." In ways this isn't entirely true as call makers can progress and better their craft, so their worst shouldn't be their entire judgment, but it is certainly something to consider.

I completely understand...just had to poke the bear...just a little. ;)  You are right with respect to other callmakers and often, though incorrectly and undeserved, something less than a good callmakers best is still very good and I suspect for many callmakers, at least it is for me, we are all trying to progress and get better, and some of us do that with age :D  Good luck this season.

Quote from: culpeper on March 08, 2022, 10:18:18 AM
I completely understand...just had to poke the bear...just a little. ;)  You are right with respect to other callmakers and often, though incorrectly and undeserved, something less than a good callmakers best is still very good and I suspect for many callmakers, at least it is for me, we are all trying to progress and get better, and some of us do that with age :D  Good luck this season.

Good luck to you too Scott! You're certainly a maker in that conversation and I meant nothing negative in my original comment. I just don't favor Cost style calls personally, as there's obviously nothing wrong with them otherwise they wouldn't be being made still, it's just me that's the weird one.

It's not news to you obviously, as you seem to share similar belief, but I will weigh in on that "better" is very subjective to the turkey we all have in our heads at that time and that's what's great about it all. I find that perspective changes over time, for everyone, especially you call makers when tuning a call. So your progression of better is even subjective determinant upon the current turkey living in your head. Something that sounds bad to one guy, may be great to another; and what sounded good one day to you might not a few months later. I feel like turkeys are the same as us in that respect as well, we all hear and say things a little differently.

It's amazing playing and listening to the different sounds and tones you get from playing a variety of calls. Different calls from different builds all have a different turkey in the box. I often tell people that's the beauty and history of the call. I enjoy playing them all regardless. Take for instant Roger Parks makes an awesome aluminum lid long box and now has perfected a short handle box with aluminum lid , if you haven't tried one i suggest at some point you do. Again it's all a matter of preference in what you want to play and the sounds you are looking for in a call.  Everyone has made some good comments and that's what this forum is all about sharing opinions and hunting gobblers. Again the angle wings are priceless with or without chalk.. I agree we got a little side tracked from chalk on the lids or not, but all of these posts share a common relationship.  Again great post everyone...

I've never held one of Roger's calls, but am curious.  Do the aluminum lids need to be chalked?  I've heard soundfiles and those lids make a call sound good.  Just never heard about chalk or not.

Quote from: packmule on March 08, 2022, 11:17:42 AM
I've never held one of Roger's calls, but am curious.  Do the aluminum lids need to be chalked?  I've heard soundfiles and those lids make a call sound good.  Just never heard about chalk or not.

Yes they require chalk.. he will tell you how to care for these calls ... his new short handle call is awesome.. he just posted up a few for sale on his Facebook page and some sound files ..

Perfect thank you.

Quote from: HookedonHooks on March 08, 2022, 10:32:32 AM

Quote from: culpeper on March 08, 2022, 10:18:18 AM
I completely understand...just had to poke the bear...just a little. ;)  You are right with respect to other callmakers and often, though incorrectly and undeserved, something less than a good callmakers best is still very good and I suspect for many callmakers, at least it is for me, we are all trying to progress and get better, and some of us do that with age :D  Good luck this season.

Good luck to you too Scott! You're certainly a maker in that conversation and I meant nothing negative in my original comment. I just don't favor Cost style calls personally, as there's obviously nothing wrong with them otherwise they wouldn't be being made still, it's just me that's the weird one.

It's not news to you obviously, as you seem to share similar belief, but I will weigh in on that "better" is very subjective to the turkey we all have in our heads at that time and that's what's great about it all. I find that perspective changes over time, for everyone, especially you call makers when tuning a call. So your progression of better is even subjective determinant upon the current turkey living in your head. Something that sounds bad to one guy, may be great to another; and what sounded good one day to you might not a few months later. I feel like turkeys are the same as us in that respect as well, we all hear and say things a little differently.

Understood and well said

For the record: Scott Witter bloodwood black cherry shortbox with nice angel wings (no re-chalking needed yet) An absolutely deadly top tier super-fine piece of American craftsmanship. As good as it gets!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220308/63d20555a9a6ea73027b44bce6e3da92.jpg)

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

Someone asked me to post a picture of it. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220308/fd738589ad0656aeac95d97ebae441e0.jpg)

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

This is an interesting thread. If the lids play easier when they're polished why don't the builders sand them to 1k grit. I don't have many box calls and I didn't even know people ran them without chalk. Angel wings is a new one one me to. Cool stuff.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: Zobo on March 08, 2022, 06:29:14 PM
Someone asked me to post a picture of it. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220308/fd738589ad0656aeac95d97ebae441e0.jpg)

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

That is a stunning box call!

Zobo,  Thanks for posting the pic, but honestly, I would love to have that call back, though I know that will never happen...suspect I would have to pry it out of your cold dead hands to do so  :TooFunny: I remember it distinctly and as you have found out, which I don't disagree with, some calls do run great w/o chalk, this is one of them.  I will say though, a lot has to do with the lid and on this call notice the flecking on the underside of the lid across the angle wings, that means it's completely quartersawn.  Historically, I have found those lids, presuming the wood also has the density, seem to perform the best.

This call as I remember runs itself.

alawrence, as a matter of fact I sand the underside of my lids with a finer grit than most callmakers.  It's always been my thinking to get as close of a match between the lid surface and the sound rails to ensure as much contact as possible from front to back.  To me, it seems to enhance sound with fewer potential skips, i.e. allowing the call to run smoother and giving the wood the ability to produce all it can as a call.  Guess I may be giving away some secrets...oh well.

Glad this thread has remainded constructive, good discussion guys!

Really pleased with all the input everyone has to offer! I've learned a lot from reading yalls responses. From the sounds of it, it sounds like the lid slicking off is almost a preferred quality of the call as a result of "breaking in" so to say. Out of curiosity, as the call lid and rails become more slick and less able to hold onto chalk, is that the point that chalking really becomes less needed, rather then say applied more frequently? I appreciate all the input and discussion!

Txag12,

It definitely is part/result of breaking in the call.  For me, as a result of running box calls a lot, I can just tell when they have 'lost' something, it's then that I "clean" up the lid just ever so gently and rechalk it.  It's critical for anyone NEVER "clean" up the lid by removing the angle wings, it's realy just a matter of scuffing up the underside very lightly.  Then within a few minutes of running it again the wings become more defined.  Here again, this is a personal preference to the hunter and not absolutely necessary, especially on a well-built box call.

Quote from: culpeper on March 09, 2022, 01:51:56 PM
Txag12,

It definitely is part/result of breaking in the call.  For me, as a result of running box calls a lot, I can just tell when they have 'lost' something, it's then that I "clean" up the lid just ever so gently and rechalk it.  It's critical for anyone NEVER "clean" up the lid by removing the angle wings, it's realy just a matter of scuffing up the underside very lightly.  Then within a few minutes of running it again the wings become more defined.  Here again, this is a personal preference to the hunter and not absolutely necessary, especially on a well-built box call.

Thank you for the response, Scott! What would be your preferred method for scuffing up the lid, using green scotch brite with little to no pressure over the "angel wings"?

Quote from: Txag12 on March 09, 2022, 03:29:15 PM

Quote from: culpeper on March 09, 2022, 01:51:56 PM
Txag12,

It definitely is part/result of breaking in the call.  For me, as a result of running box calls a lot, I can just tell when they have 'lost' something, it's then that I "clean" up the lid just ever so gently and rechalk it.  It's critical for anyone NEVER "clean" up the lid by removing the angle wings, it's realy just a matter of scuffing up the underside very lightly.  Then within a few minutes of running it again the wings become more defined.  Here again, this is a personal preference to the hunter and not absolutely necessary, especially on a well-built box call.

Thank you for the response, Scott! What would be your preferred method for scuffing up the lid, using green scotch brite with little to no pressure over the "angel wings"?

I normally use 320 or 400 grit sand paper, or a brand new piece of scotch brite and again, I am using extremely light pressure and when done, you should see the angle wings quite clearly...in many respects all you are doing in scuffing the surface ONLY enough to give the chalk something to hold on to.  Last, I might do this only once during the entire season, depending on how much I am running a box call.  Remember, this is personal preference, not a requirement, and as we have read, many of us have different opinions on doing this, which I totally respect and understand.

Quote from: culpeper on March 09, 2022, 09:17:07 AM
Zobo,  Thanks for posting the pic, but honestly, I would love to have that call back, though I know that will never happen...suspect I would have to pry it out of your cold dead hands to do so  :TooFunny: I remember it distinctly and as you have found out, which I don't disagree with, some calls do run great w/o chalk, this is one of them.  I will say though, a lot has to do with the lid and on this call notice the flecking on the underside of the lid across the angle wings, that means it's completely quartersawn.  Historically, I have found those lids, presuming the wood also has the density, seem to perform the best.





Sorry, she's not for sale :cowboy:

Quote from: culpeper on March 09, 2022, 04:33:38 PM

Quote from: Txag12 on March 09, 2022, 03:29:15 PM

Quote from: culpeper on March 09, 2022, 01:51:56 PM
Txag12,

It definitely is part/result of breaking in the call.  For me, as a result of running box calls a lot, I can just tell when they have 'lost' something, it's then that I "clean" up the lid just ever so gently and rechalk it.  It's critical for anyone NEVER "clean" up the lid by removing the angle wings, it's realy just a matter of scuffing up the underside very lightly.  Then within a few minutes of running it again the wings become more defined.  Here again, this is a personal preference to the hunter and not absolutely necessary, especially on a well-built box call.

Thank you for the response, Scott! What would be your preferred method for scuffing up the lid, using green scotch brite with little to no pressure over the "angel wings"?

I normally use 320 or 400 grit sand paper, or a brand new piece of scotch brite and again, I am using extremely light pressure and when done, you should see the angle wings quite clearly...in many respects all you are doing in scuffing the surface ONLY enough to give the chalk something to hold on to.  Last, I might do this only once during the entire season, depending on how much I am running a box call.  Remember, this is personal preference, not a requirement, and as we have read, many of us have different opinions on doing this, which I totally respect and understand.

Thank you much for the advice, Scott! I appreciate all the info I can get from y'all that have much more experience than me.