My wife downloaded the latest MeatEater episodes the other day on Netflix and we watched a couple last night. I like the show all right, especially some of the older ones where he tended to take conversations a bit deeper and lead more meaningful discussions on ethics and land and conservation. Anyhow, she was excited to watch the turkey episode.
So in it he's hunting turkeys with this fellow down in the low country pine flats. Steve kills a bird off the roost early the first morning. Later the old man had a bird work in and he passes. Steve asks him why he passed and he tells him because it was a jake. Steve rags him about not killing jakes and why he'd feel that way. The old man tells him because the goal is two year birds. Steve tells him that distinction is, "Just cosmetics." A little while later in the episode a group of birds come running into the call, immediately seeing they're all jakes. The old man shoots three times before and finally knocks one down.
I'd venture to say the vast majority of this public land hunting craze discussed so often on this site isn't a result of YouTube near as much as it's the result of the popularity of that show on Netflix. I would say that show single-handedly has been the greatest influence on adult onset hunting over the last four or five years, both the good and the bad.
When that old man shot that jake I just turned it off. One of the things that bothered me was seeing how that old man had some sort of principle and how easily he allowed that to go out the window. But I think what bothered me more was that Steve Rinella has to be aware of plummeting numbers all over the southeast, South Carolina (one of the two states I hunt every year) being most assuredly one of those places. Him pushing that, "Shoot 'em all," mentality when his primary audience are people with no hunting background and no mentors other than him felt irresponsible and short sighted. Don't know where I'm going with this post exactly, but maybe just a question about what ethical responsibility, if any, a person carries once they have built an audience that large?
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I can only speak for myself but personally I quit tracking the popular figures of hunting quite some time ago. Don't get me wrong, I liked some of these fellows years ago but over time I have seen the changes and eventually it becomes about money and popularity. Not saying they are horrible people but I just can't imagine selling out something so valuable to me for money or fame. I watch very little hunting anymore. Unless I am looking to learn something I see no need for it.
I remember watching the show and having the same feelings as yourself. Being from SC, I cringed when I saw him kill the jake. If I recall correctly, the camera cut out or something and I thought to myself they had to run down the crippled jake.
I don't care for the nasally talking Yankee anyway nor the agenda he pushes.
I'm with you, [mention]Happy [/mention]. I don't find much enjoyment in watching anymore. I'd rather just read and go sit in the woods. And [mention]hootgobbleyelpgobble [/mention], I couldn't believe he shot three times and still had to run the bird down. Wonder what the range was and him shooting lead? I guess what I wish had happened is that with that platform you could bring in a voice to discuss the decline in eastern numbers, what's happening, what can be done. You can hunt them but lead that conversation. Then that group under your wing who are just finding their way into this thing know what's at stake. When you know the problem, have that audience, and just dismiss it entirely for the bird over the shoulder cliche walking away shot, that bothers me. He had a tremendous opportunity to lead a valuable conversation and he squandered it.
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It's a show, they create much of that "drama". I don't shoot jakes but it has nothing to do with any turkey population issues, just a personal choice.
I enjoy Meateater and Steve has taught me more about conservation on his podcast than anyone, and I was a committee for both DU and the NWTF for years! His podcast, particularly the ones with biologists and scientists really have some amazing info.
Steve had DR. Chamberlain on his podcast and it set off a ton of the recent conversations on turkey management, so thinking he squandered an opportunity is a bit off, maybe in that instance but he has brought to light a lot of conservation issues on a regular basis.
As far as the poor shooting, chit happens, that ole timer probably forgot more about shooting turkeys than most know.
Quote from: Dtrkyman on February 23, 2022, 10:22:03 AM
Steve had DR. Chamberlain on his podcast and it set off a ton of the recent conversations on turkey management, so thinking he squandered an opportunity is a bit off, maybe in that instance but he has brought to light a lot of conservation issues on a regular basis.
It's not off at all. He's hunting a state that is experiencing a drastic decline in numbers, a state that in the past five years has reduced tags by nearly half and implemented new management regulations. To hunt that place and not discuss that is irresponsible and a squandered opportunity. How many people you think are listening to that podcast every week or will go back and search out the Chamberlain interview vs. how many people will watch that episode on Netflix?
And to be clear, I agree with you that he's done a great deal for conservation. Without his push for BHA and TRCP and the likes then some of the major bills passed in the last five years likely don't happen. That doesn't mean he's infallible. That doesn't mean he didn't miss a good opportunity for a deeper discussion here.
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You know "these days" anytime information is presented in a one way flow format, where the audience can't contribute to the discussion, there will be criticism. That criticism is ok and sometimes warranted as it is in this case if you ask me . But, that's what makes this place, our forum, special and so great. An instant exchange of thoughts, ideas, information, wisdom, critiques and authentic hard earned experiences and bs stories too! How lucky we are to have this. That guy is just selling.
I agree with you Chester, and evidently a ton of people either listened to or heard about that podcast, because the topic popped up all over the place and a lot of the points brought up I had never heard before!
The Doc. talking about spur length, particularly ruffled some feathers of the guys who aged birds this way, saw a popular turkey hunter even make the remark about his long spurred turkey being older no matter what anyone said on a podcast!
Thing I really like about his podcast he will bring up his prior mistakes and correct them at the beginning of the show, many times he addresses this and even reads how and where he was called out.
I think he does more good than bad, he is an intelligent well spoken dude making a living off of eating things he hunts, pretty cool when you think about it.
I saw this episode, it's all about getting a kill on camera in my opinion for the people who don't know better or are learning and thinking about going turkey hunting. I don't care for his show myself... I agree Happy it's all about the money and viewers ... I have stop watch most all of these outdoor show's , i do like watching some of the old Primos, Knight Hale and few of the older turkey show's ...
Thought i heard older guy say he shoots jaked all the time. Either way why would anyone care what he shoots if its legal. Mike
Another topic hunters criticizing hunters. Like stated above if legal why should you care. He pulled the trigger not the other guy. If he decided to go against his morales it's on him. Not for anyone to judge him but him.
Yeah the guy he was hunting with is named Robert Abernathy. He is a conservationist and helped re-introduce and increase the population of the Wild Turkey in the southeast and all of North America. And he did say that he shoots Jake's often. He gave the reason but I can't remember it. But his rational made sense to me because I remember it not bothering me. I want to only shoot Longbeards but if a man shoots a Jake and he legally tags it and eats it it doesn't really bother me. Kind of like when a man kills a spike buck or a basket 6 pointer, I don't care has long has he eats it and does it legally. Some people just enjoy the hunt and don't care about spurs, beard length or how many points.
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Missed opportunity or not, the episode was terrible. It is no surprise that the educated turkey hunter would come away with the same criticism many of you have already stated. As his show has aged it has become less gritty and a bit more mainstream (the Netflix effect I suppose). The newer seasons are more about production value and personalities than the actual hunting, processing, and cooking. All that said, I like Rinella for what he has done in terms of Public Land stewardship and ownership. He has taken his passion and developed a multi-million dollar enterprise...he has made his own American dream.
Quote from: rakkin6 on February 23, 2022, 02:55:44 PM
Yeah the guy he was hunting with is named Robert Abernathy. He is a conservationist and helped re-introduce and increase the population of the Wild Turkey in the southeast and all of North America. And he did say that he shoots Jake's often. He gave the reason but I can't remember it. But his rational made sense to me because I remember it not bothering me. I want to only shoot Longbeards but if a man shoots a Jake and he legally tags it and eats it it doesn't really bother me. Kind of like when a man kills a spike buck or a basket 6 pointer, I don't care has long has he eats it and does it legally. Some people just enjoy the hunt and don't care about spurs, beard length or how many points.
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I don't know Abernathy but if that's true then that would make him an even better source to have had that conversation with, but with regard to shooting jakes, if you're in one of those states where turkey populations are booming it wouldn't bother me. In a place where, as he notes, up to 70% of mature gobblers are being taken out by hunters every year, that number on top of a steady population decline that has biologists baffled, it makes zero sense to target immature birds that, 1) are easier to call and kill, and, 2) serve as the replacement stock for the mature birds being removed from the landscape. The problem with the if-it's-legal argument is and has always been that there are plenty of things legal that are harmful to wildlife populations. It's why people impose self limits. It's why lifelong grouse hunters where I live in the mountains of North Carolina no longer hunt those birds. They could legally shoot three a day and thirty a season but they all know the population here can't support that so they don't.
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Meateater is one show I record. Especially like the one he and his brother did in Montana packing in with llamas. A few of his episodes include Joe Rogan who just hunts and does no political discourse. Excellent show.
Rinella is a pompus commie who sold out to an anti gun group. Said I wouldn't watch him after I saw him smash a long beard with that rock in an old episode. He's a sockcucker
Quote from: rakkin6 on February 23, 2022, 02:55:44 PM
Yeah the guy he was hunting with is named Robert Abernathy. He is a conservationist and helped re-introduce and increase the population of the Wild Turkey in the southeast and all of North America. And he did say that he shoots Jake's often. He gave the reason but I can't remember it. But his rational made sense to me because I remember it not bothering me. I want to only shoot Longbeards but if a man shoots a Jake and he legally tags it and eats it it doesn't really bother me. Kind of like when a man kills a spike buck or a basket 6 pointer, I don't care has long has he eats it and does it legally. Some people just enjoy the hunt and don't care about spurs, beard length or how many points.
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Couldn't agree more. As long as it's legal who am I try not to judge. Especially when the guy in question spent majority of his career working for NWTF. I'd say he knows a bit about conservation and right or wrong.
I did misunderstand the older fellow on the episode. He said, "No, I'll shoot jakes," and what I heard the first time was, "No, I don't shoot jakes." That's my fault. But I disagree with both of their assumptions that laws like what exist in Mississippi don't help replenish stock killed from the adult population. Bird populations plummeting in South Carolina, just hard for me to watch a group of five jakes come running in like idiots and for him to shoot into the pile three times to knock one down, longest beard in the group on his decoy. To each their own, I guess.
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I`d be curious to know what biologists like Dr. Chamberlain have to say as to the impact of taking jakes out of a population. Just personally, I`ve never been interested in shooting a jake even though legal in GA.
Quote from: Turkeytider on February 23, 2022, 09:16:05 PM
I`d be curious to know what biologists like Dr. Chamberlain have to say as to the impact of taking jakes out of a population. Just personally, I`ve never been interested in shooting a jake even though legal in GA.
Starting this spring in Al. there will be a study on Jake's. They are going to request, I believe, gonads samples from harvested jakes this spring. The goal is to study viability of Jake's as breeders throughout the season. The hope is to get enough participants in the state of Al alone this season for a good sample size. Should be interesting.
Quote from: hootgobbleyelpgobble on February 23, 2022, 09:30:21 AM
I remember watching the show and having the same feelings as yourself. Being from SC, I cringed when I saw him kill the jake. If I recall correctly, the camera cut out or something and I thought to myself they had to run down the crippled jake.
I don't care for the nasally talking Yankee anyway nor the agenda he pushes.
Whoa, whoa, whoa! What's being a "Yankee" have to do with anything at all?
Overall, I think Rinella has made some positive contributions to conservation and the image of hunters in the public eye. He puts out a quality video production and often has some content included that indicates he is aware of the need for having a conservation ethic as well as portraying hunters in a positive light.
However, a segment on spring gobbler hunting filmed in New Mexico a few years back had me questioning his motives and conservation ethic a bit. In that video, he is hunting in an area that I know has a very low density of turkeys, and in fact, I think he and a buddy hunted several days, heard one gobble, and repeatedly stated that there was very little evidence of turkeys in that entire area.
On the last day of the hunt, he finally heard a couple of birds that were together and called them in. Both were jakes, and instead of having the foresight to recognize that, since they had encountered so few turkeys in their hunt, perhaps it would be wise to either pass on shooting one of them, or at the least only shoot one and leave the other, Rinella shot both jakes,...literally the only two male turkeys they had seen in several days of hunting that area.
Rinella obviously gets to hunt a lot and should have a consciousness as to how his actions might impact the resource, especially after seeing how few turkeys there are in that area. There was absolutely no reason for him to shoot either of those jakes much less both of them, but under the circumstances, as far as I am concerned it was inexcusable for him to kill them both.
Turn them off. Don't click on their content.
Quote from: arkrem870 on February 24, 2022, 08:15:08 AM
Turn them off. Don't click on their content.
This!!! This is the only way, folks.
I enjoy Meateater content that doesn't involve turkeys. That episode was legitimately painful for me to watch.
That being said I think it was all about getting a kill on video for Rinella in this case, and he does shoot jakes out West and doesn't think a thing of it. Unfortunately Abernathy didn't take the opportunity, a lot of us would have loved to see, to educate him on why he maybe shouldn't. He got caught up in the "show" too.
And I'm sorry, but just because it's legal doesn't make it right.
This is what puts a spur under my saddle. Who are y'all to decide what is right for someone else. If this is the case leave your trucks home they drink to much gas. You shouldn't be killing anything to begin with. You should turn in all your guns. To many people out there already trying to decide what is right for me or the environment.
If you don't want to shoot jakes good for you. I've shot two in my turkey hunting career when I was starting out and I was tickled to death to do so. I'll probably never shoot another one but if I do so be it.
If we're WORRYING what is right do away with all TSS AND LONGBEARDS for I have decided you shouldn't be shooting no turkey past 30 yards for it ain't RIGHT. See how this can go.
Don't decide for me what is right if it is legal. China hasn't taken over completely yet.
You shoot the boss gobbler and the pecking order starts over delaying the breeding so would it not be better to shoot a jake ?
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Quote from: camotoe on February 24, 2022, 11:11:12 AM
You shoot the boss gobbler and the pecking order starts over delaying the breeding so would it not be better to shoot a jake ?
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Lol what?
I've read that to its best to shoot jakes. There's a pecking order. You shoot dominate bird the other gobblers have to fight for domination the hens wait for winner So on and on. Can't remember where I read but I did.
Quote from: Which Gun on February 24, 2022, 11:01:56 AM
This is what puts a spur under my saddle. Who are y'all to decide what is right for someone else. If this is the case leave your trucks home they drink to much gas. You shouldn't be killing anything to begin with. You should turn in all your guns. To many people out there already trying to decide what is right for me or the environment.
If you don't want to shoot jakes good for you. I've shot two in my turkey hunting career when I was starting out and I was tickled to death to do so. I'll probably never shoot another one but if I do so be it.
If we're WORRYING what is right do away with all TSS AND LONGBEARDS for I have decided you shouldn't be shooting no turkey past 30 yards for it ain't RIGHT. See how this can go.
Don't decide for me what is right if it is legal. China hasn't taken over completely yet.
Agreed!
Quote from: Which Gun on February 24, 2022, 11:01:56 AM
This is what puts a spur under my saddle. Who are y'all to decide what is right for someone else. If this is the case leave your trucks home they drink to much gas. You shouldn't be killing anything to begin with. You should turn in all your guns. To many people out there already trying to decide what is right for me or the environment.
If you don't want to shoot jakes good for you. I've shot two in my turkey hunting career when I was starting out and I was tickled to death to do so. I'll probably never shoot another one but if I do so be it.
If we're WORRYING what is right do away with all TSS AND LONGBEARDS for I have decided you shouldn't be shooting no turkey past 30 yards for it ain't RIGHT. See how this can go.
Don't decide for me what is right if it is legal. China hasn't taken over completely yet.
All you need to do is read post 1, last paragraph....We can only explain it to you, we can't help you understand it.
And I am not trying to stir the pot or get you hot. Just because it is legal, it might not be the best thing for the animal at that time.
It was a good episode. Nothing fancy with Abernathy.
A burnt cork hickory striker, a box that sounded like it had been sanded a few times, a homemade decoy, and 2 3/4" shells. And a love for the birds and the land.
Reminded me of talking turkey with my wife's grandfather, who cut his teeth hunting Alabama turkeys in the 50s and 60s (he was also an adult onset turkey hunter). He went hunting with Mr. Lynch a few times.
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Quote from: Which Gun on February 24, 2022, 11:01:56 AM
This is what puts a spur under my saddle. Who are y'all to decide what is right for someone else. If this is the case leave your trucks home they drink to much gas. You shouldn't be killing anything to begin with. You should turn in all your guns. To many people out there already trying to decide what is right for me or the environment.
If you don't want to shoot jakes good for you. I've shot two in my turkey hunting career when I was starting out and I was tickled to death to do so. I'll probably never shoot another one but if I do so be it.
If we're WORRYING what is right do away with all TSS AND LONGBEARDS for I have decided you shouldn't be shooting no turkey past 30 yards for it ain't RIGHT. See how this can go.
Don't decide for me what is right if it is legal. China hasn't taken over completely yet.
I'm not deciding anything for you or anyone else. That's for you to decide. I'm saying that I believe grown men shooting Jakes is ridiculous...sorry if that offends you but it's my opinion. See how that works?
To your other scenarios, I load and shoot TSS now because its the most lethal thing I can quickly and ethically kill a turkey with. Oh and I try not shoot one past 30 yards, just like I have since I started hunting with the cheapest turkey shells I could find a long time ago. Nothing has changed for me but again that's me. Some may feel more comfortable taking longer shots. Some may not be ethical, imo.
The difference between your post and mine is that you are telling someone what they should and shouldn't do, albeit just to be sarcastic. I simply stated my opinion.
And politicians make game laws, not biologists unfortunately...So I'll say it again, just because something is Legal take doesn't make it right. This can be applied to many things besides bearded turkeys. Take a breath and pluck the spur out of your saddle. It's almost turkey season.
I'm pretty sure Dr chamberlain was where I heard that from . That was the reason to push back then opener to let the top turkey do his thing . If he is knocked off then the hens do another round of seeing who they will breed with . Pushes the whole cycle back which leads to a higher mortality rate of the poults .
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Quote from: camotoe on February 26, 2022, 06:49:26 PM
I'm pretty sure Dr chamberlain was where I heard that from . That was the reason to push back then opener to let the top turkey do his thing . If he is knocked off then the hens do another round of seeing who they will breed with . Pushes the whole cycle back which leads to a higher mortality rate of the poults .
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It's got to be the most controversial thing Dr. Chamberlain has said. Runs against the experience of a lot of turkey hunters who will forget more than 99% of us know about these birds.
I'd really like to see something more concrete than "look at how much smaller their 'nads are, haha" to establish that. Even if a jake's sperm count is lower than a mature Tom, it still could be plenty to get the job done.
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After it's all said and done, it doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with how someone hunts or what they harvest, if it's legal, no wrong has been done and it's 100 percent personal preference, whether you or I like it or not. If SCDNR thinks that shooting jakes is detrimental, then they need to make it illegal. No matter what the regs say, I will never shoot a Jake. My reasons for not doing so are right in line with everyone else's reasons, but until we make the changes to the regs, no wrong has been done.
I thought the show was well done. His show is one of the few that seems to provide quality content.
Esse quam videri
If I an remembering correctly, Meateater is about EATING MEAT??? If its legal and he tags and eats it, I don't see a problem. Jake's are tasty too and Rinella is a great chef I believe. Lol. But personally however I dont shoot jakes myself but wont belittle anyone else who does.
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That was a great episode. I enjoyed it.