I will likely never use an autoloader for hunting and could list a number of reasons why I believe a pump is a better choice. Obviously, an autoloader has the perceived advantage of being able to "autoload" each round but that's where it ends in my eyes, yet I still see many turkey hunters using autoloaders. For those in that category, why do you prefer to use an autoloader?
I shoot a auto loader simply because I like them. I have 4 dedicated to turkey hunting and all have been reliable. I own a couple of pumps and nothing at all is wrong with them. As far as follow up shots, that really has never been a deciding factor. In over 40 years turkey hunting , I have used break barrels , pumps and semi's. The only thing that I have noticed is recoil is less with a semi the majority of the time. I went from a 20 ga to a 410 last year and yes its a auto also. No particular advantage that I can see between a auto and a pump in my honest opinion.
Quote from: Spitten and drummen on January 30, 2022, 03:57:12 PM
I shoot a auto loader simply because I like them. I have 4 dedicated to turkey hunting and all have been reliable. I own a couple of pumps and nothing at all is wrong with them. As far as follow up shots, that really has never been a deciding factor. In over 40 years turkey hunting , I have used break barrels , pumps and semi's. The only thing that I have noticed is recoil is less with a semi the majority of the time. I went from a 20 ga to a 410 last year and yes its a auto also. No particular advantage that I can see between a auto and a pump in my honest opinion.
X2 so agree. I will add my age has made me go more so to automatic, but i have both singles, pumps and auto and will still use all of them.
I own 3 pumps(10 ga., 12 ga. and a .410) and one autoloader. I like and use them all. No real preference but I do like my Benelli SBE 1. Biggest advantage IMO is the softer recoil.
I'm old, slow and a bad shot.
Softer shooting goes to the semi auto. My Browning Maxus is tame compared to my 870 supermag both shooting 3 1/2" longbeards. My other turkey guns 20 is auto,my other 12 is an auto,410 is stevens single shot. I just prefer auto's personally. Own three pumps to eight autos.
My gun has a little bit of recoil. I run 2.675 oz. of TSS and the recoil will cycle the next round with me just pulling the trigger and holding on to the big girl. It has never failed, not one time, in 20 years.
My son's gun, a M2 is less than my BPS in reliability. New, after set up, the Benelli click. 35 yards on a strutter, youth season for a 12 year old. I spent +-2K for the Benelli click!
My BPS is reliable, it has fired every time I have asked it too and has never fired with out me asking it too. It is heavy, but will put over 600 holes in a 10" target @ 40 yards.
I have been looking at new 20g autos, maybe..... reading what I just wrote, I should be looking at a pump gun. I have NO trouble running a pump. But, it won't be a nose punching Mossberg.
Went from a single barreled .410 from Santa to a Model 1100 12 gauge over 50 yrs ago. Keep her cleaned and I still give resident Canada Geese 5 barrels worth with the best of 'em...
Smaller fore-end, lighter recoil, and makes things easier for follow ups on the occasional and inevitable oh-sh*t-he's-still-standing-there, oh-sh*t-I-missed moments of sheer dumbfoundedness that happen in the woods.
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Hahaha....and Yep been there!!!
Quote from: guesswho on January 30, 2022, 04:24:27 PM
I'm old, slow and a bad shot.
I love this answer, now that I review my reasons, this must be included...except the old part I ain't ready to accept that yet, 51 ain't old I don't think.
I switched to a 20 gauge semi auto because of shoulder issues, getting a new right shoulder tuesday,, I guess I just like em at the end of the day. In general I have shotgun problem though I like all of them. Old, new, vertical and horizontal doubles, pumps and semi-autos, even single barrels and bolt actions.
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I have always shot auto loaders, just preference and I hate the sloppy fore ends on a pump gun.
An over under or sxs is the ultimate turkey gun with the 2 chokes but I chickened out concerned with both barrels hitting the same!
Have only ever had a follow up shot once!
Quote from: guesswho on January 30, 2022, 04:24:27 PM
I'm old, slow and a bad shot.
I resemble that remark, except I'm older, slower, and probably a worser shot! Still, I shoot a pump. When I look in the mirror a day or so after a hunt and see that bruise on my cheek, I know that something good must (or might) have happened! ;D :angel9:
Have shot both . Prefer the pumps for turkey. Especially in 20 gauge , recoil is not an issue. One point for the pump is that for those who still get up and run to the shot turkey the chamber isn't auto loaded for the mad dash.
My pumps don't rattle around, no Mossberg's here.
3 1/2" 12 gauges years ago, semi-automatics for the reduced recoil for sure.
I shoot both but my 870 Super Mag 3" loads kick a lot harder than my 3 1/2" load from my A5. I also think the current market has a lot to do with it. I'm 46 and most of my family had pump guns back in the 80's to early 90's. Remington 870's we're built well and most are still probably going strong. They were affordable compared to an A5 or 11-87. Look at how they market the semi autos. You don't see alot of waterfowl videos and guys shooting pump guns. They seem to be affordable for people now and correct me if I'm wrong but there seems to be more companies investing in the semi auto arena.
I have always had auto's, pumps, O/U, used them for different activities, all work fine. Only used pump gun for turkey hunting, mostly because I didn't want to mess up my other pretty guns crawling around the swamps. Now that I am old and not so possessed about chasing/killing turkeys, I am going to tote an old SxS this year, just because I like them.
I used semi autos for many years, but since joining this great forum, I started collecting Old School 870's and Laminated Winchester 1300's. I also added a Browning Cynergy Over under Turkey gun. I basically love them all. I use a different gun every few days or so during my seasons. I enjoy collecting Turkey guns, building them, patterning them etc. It's my favorite hobby.......
I had always used pump guns until last year. Primarily a Winchester 1300 turkey, but then I got a Cz 1012 auto that I liked the feel of and used it all last season. It is lighter weight, softer shooting and nice to carry. Both of these are 12ga guns.
I have shot a 12 ga Remington 870 for 51 years. My first was for my 12th birthday. Fantastic gun for ducks and shooting in general.
I'm now shooting a Benelli M1 Super 90 in 20 gauge that has a Fastfire 3 and is camo'd for turkeys. I recently did the same for a Franchi 48AL in 28 gauge. With TSS, both of these have amazing patterns at 40 yards and are 5.8 and 6 pounds.
If I miss with either of those guns, it is my own fault and would probably miss with the heavier 12 ga too
I don't find the recoil of the 20, nor the 28, to be any issue.
Honestly I use an auto because it was the lightest gun I could find. Love my stoeger 3020 but I've killed plenty of birds with my 870 20 gauge and an old h and r single shot. The light weight is the main reason I went with my current set up. I also have a cz side by side that I'll mess with this year but I really like using a red dot and don't think I want to drill and tap it since it's my dedicated dove and rabbit gun
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I also added a .410 semi auto this year that will probably get carried quite a bit. I can only think of one bird that a semi saved me on and very likely would have killed him with a pump as well
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I'm interested to know from Shane, do you still use a 12 gauge?
I'm a fan of your videos and don't believe I've ever noticed a 20 gauge.
Quote from: strut on January 30, 2022, 08:30:56 PM
I'm interested to know from Shane, do you still use a 12 gauge?
I'm a fan of your videos and don't believe I've ever noticed a 20 gauge.
I have both a 12 and a 20 but use the 12 most often because I seem to miss with the 20 the most often. ;D
A semi auto doesn't require an action for the second shot, felt recoil is less, and by nature is quieter before the shot ie. no fore end rattle.
So naturally this year I will be using a single shot and a pump.
Esse quam videri
Quote from: simpzenith on January 30, 2022, 09:27:41 PM
Quote from: strut on January 30, 2022, 08:30:56 PM
I'm interested to know from Shane, do you still use a 12 gauge?
I'm a fan of your videos and don't believe I've ever noticed a 20 gauge.
I have both a 12 and a 20 but use the 12 most often because I seem to miss with the 20 the most often. ;D
See, you need an automatic in the 20 gauge.
I swore I'd never shot a auto . Shot a 870 pump and a couple different O/U 's for my whole life .
I also swore I'd never put a scope or optics on a turkey gun , seemed ghey to me !
But I guess I should have listened to mom and stopped that swearing . I now shot a auto loader with a scope !! I love the looks of a good O/U , and the tuff ness of a 870 pump . But man this lil 20 ga auto is so light , and shots so sweet ! I swear by it ... lol .
Recoil mainly for me as i shoot a 12 but also what I started with and am comfortable with
Up until last year I had only shot an old 870 for turkey in the last almost 20 years and then I bought a couple semi autos (a 12ga and a 20ga). Right now the 20ga semi is the first one I'll grab, but have also added a single shot and another 20ga pump to my small turkey gun collection. I actually found myself trying to pump my semi auto 20ga after last years shot lol.
Personally I don't see an advantage shot wise with either, but to me a pump is possibly more reliable. Take that with a grain of salt as I am learning as I go with guns in general. I've always been one that was a good shot, but didn't know much of anything mechanically about the gun. Trying to change that as I am getting more into putting turkey guns together.
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My turkey gun is an auto and my dove gun is an over and under. I don't shoot a pump because I would forget to pump.
I just recently switch to a 20 gauge semi auto, from a 12 gauge pump, there are times I do wish I had pump action, maybe out of familiarity, with that said here's my list...
1)Auto loading of course, makes for a quick follow up shot if need be.
2) It sits better on my knee with the longer fore-end. Gives it a flatter surface on my knee.
3) Less recoil for what it's worth.
A lot of the reason I went semi auto was I wanted a lighter 20 gauge vs the pump 12. A lot of the 20s I noticed seem to come in Semi auto more so then pump.
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I've only shot a handful or 2 of turkeys...for shotguns I've used T/C Encore, Benelli Nova, Weatherby Element and current gun is a Girsan MC312. I like a solid forearm...which would go to single or semi-auto for me, but no strong preference for me.
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Quote from: WV Flopper on January 30, 2022, 04:29:15 PM
My gun has a little bit of recoil. I run 2.675 oz. of TSS and the recoil will cycle the next round with me just pulling the trigger and holding on to the big girl. It has never failed, not one time, in 20 years.
My son's gun, a M2 is less than my BPS in reliability. New, after set up, the Benelli click. 35 yards on a strutter, youth season for a 12 year old. I spent +-2K for the Benelli click!
My BPS is reliable, it has fired every time I have asked it too and has never fired with out me asking it too. It is heavy, but will put over 600 holes in a 10" target @ 40 yards.
I have been looking at new 20g autos, maybe..... reading what I just wrote, I should be looking at a pump gun. I have NO trouble running a pump. But, it won't be a nose punching Mossberg.
Swap out the spring with a wolf +25%. It will hold the bolt shut a lot better not allowing a little bounce or something to allow the bolt to come out of battery.
Only downside is you won't be able to cycle low power shells.
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I use both but I reach for the Beneli M2 more because it's lighter to pack.
I've got both a Moss 930 (3" auto) and Moss 835 (3.5" pump). The auto swats less...even if I use 3" shells in the pump. Plus, when walking with slinged gun on shoulder, the auto is silent...the forend on the pump tends to rattle. Now...with all the hoarding Covid hunters I can't find any 3" WW LB 6s...3.5" WW LBs easy to find so that's what I'll be using. I don't mind...I've never felt the recoil of any gun when shooting at game.
Even though it is inherent to a Mossberg pump to rattle, not all pumps rattle.
I've used auto's as it's usually my turkey, duck, dove gun. I used my brothers 870 one year. Had a turkey coming in with 870 laying next to my leg. As turkey went behind a tree I raised the shotgun. It a made click noise......to me sounded like slamming a car door. The sound was probably (must've been) very faint. As I waited what seemed like forever for the turkey to walk from behind the tree I thought I blew it. But he appeared and I pulled the trigger. I'll never use a pump for turkey again.
I'll build a single shot 20ga this year.
If it's a quality gun and properly maintained, the odds of failure probably aren't much different between pumps and semi autos. Semi's usually have more moving parts so I guess the odds of breaking may be a tiny bit higher. A good inspection before season every year and good maintenance can lessen all those odds. My #1 turkey gun is a semi auto, #2 is a single shot and #3 is a pump.
I first started hunting as a kid with a Mossberg 500. I hated the noise that thing made when trying to rest it on my knee. Once I had the opportunity, I switched to an auto strictly for that reason. Yes, I'm sure better quality pump guns make less sound.
Now... with an autoloader, you can make a heck of a racket loading and unloading if you're not careful. But I feel that's worth the trade-off.
Quote from: Turkeyman on January 31, 2022, 05:12:28 PM
I've never felt the recoil of any gun when shooting at game.
Me neither,...I don't realize that my 835 kicked the snot out of me until about an hour after the shot when, all of a sudden, I have a sore spot and a bruise developing on my cheek. Fortunately, that 835 shoots right where I aim it, so I (usually) don't have to worry about pulling the trigger more than one time! When all is said and done, THAT is what is most important to me in gun selection. ;) ;D
Quote from: Crghss on January 31, 2022, 09:43:24 PM
I've used auto's as it's usually my turkey, duck, dove gun. I used my brothers 870 one year. Had a turkey coming in with 870 laying next to my leg. As turkey went behind a tree I raised the shotgun. It a made click noise......to me sounded like slamming a car door. The sound was probably (must've been) very faint. As I waited what seemed like forever for the turkey to walk from behind the tree I thought I blew it. But he appeared and I pulled the trigger. I'll never use a pump for turkey again.
I'll build a single shot 20ga this year.
if i have a bird coming in i typically have my gun already up and ready
I don't
I've used pumps all my life, and will continue to use them, but last year I bought a Mossberg International SA-28 just for turkey hunting. It's light and very potent with an ounce and a half of TSS. I'll hold on to my Model 12 and 1300.
I've always used pumps. yes, they may rattle but there are ways to fix that too. Only one time I wished I had an auto. I always used a mossy 500 12ga very few misses but I took my new to me Weatherby all set up, dipped in camo, patterned, tested blah blah. Had a gobbler coming. He was little to my right and about to walk out of view off the side of the ridge but still at about 40yrds. I put the dot on the waddle and boom. he never moved. There I was trying to shuck a shell into that thing without making any noise. Got the old shell out but no love on the reload. he spooked and flew off. Never knew why I missed but I lost confidence in that gun right then and there. Now Im shooting a 20ga 870 . it's been as dependable and spot on as any Ive ever owned. I dont know about yall but I never forget those moments and when I think of that one, I'm always thinking .."what if I had been shooting an auto?"
Pros of an auto are reduced recoil and less chance of a rattle. Having said that I use a pump and it works fine. The difference is not that significant. Use what you have unless you just want to buy a new gun. Nothing wrong with that either.
They both have have their place, I use both every season. But for guaranteed follow-up shots, the pump will guarantee that. Turkey hunting is a first shot endeavor, but follow-up shots are not uncommon.
I'm with others in liking the reduced recoil. For me I wanted a high end do it all gun, both turkey and upland, which ultimately put me towards auto.
For turkey hunting, i don't really have a preference. I guess its all how the gun feels in the hand.
Recoil, Recoil, Recoil. One shot while hunting is hardly ever and issue. Shoot a couple of boxes of hot and heavy 3.5" TSS loads for patterning and a light pump gun will hammer you and potential induce flinching which will led to misses. I bought my autoloader for 1 reason and 1 reason only. Recoil management.
I carried a BPS pump for twenty-five plus years and loved it but the older I got, the more it seemed to punish my shoulder. Three years ago, I went with a SBEII auto and was glad I did. After reading about the TSS and 20 and 410 ga guns, I now have a new SBEIII 20ga which I'll be carrying this spring. Love this little gun so far and can't wait to hunt with it.
seen a lot of comments on "softer shooting" and less recoil. Im assuming most of you are using gassers, because inertia driven shotguns IMO have substantial recoil, enough to not consider it an advantage over a pump anyway.
Quote from: Spladle160 on February 14, 2022, 11:09:29 AM
Recoil, Recoil, Recoil. One shot while hunting is hardly ever and issue. Shoot a couple of boxes of hot and heavy 3.5" TSS loads for patterning and a light pump gun will hammer you and potential induce flinching which will led to misses. I bought my autoloader for 1 reason and 1 reason only. Recoil management.
which autoloader did you buy?
I have and use all of them. But the Semi is quieter, no pump rattles. Also usually lighter. And you will have faster and more accurate/controlled follow up shots if needed.
My main Turkey gun is an 870. I do use semi-auto's for Dove, Upland and waterfowl.
That said, I do travel with an autoloader as my back-up Turkey gun. Never had to go to it and would probably feverishly try to pump it if I did.
I hunted with an REM 1100 auto for years before switching to a Mossberg 500 pump. Along the way, I've hunted with probably a half-dozen shotguns.
I settled on a pump simply because
a) The pump is all I really need. Follow-on shots are pretty rare
b) The pump is lighter
c) The pump was cheaper by far
d) The pump is much easier to maintain
I feel that turkey hunting is one of those times where a cheap gun that gets the job done is better than the best-of-breed. My 500 has been out now for 25 seasons and taken dozens of birds and I've really never have had to worry about it. I think I paid $120 for it. I spray-painted over a decade ago, and if the paint gets dinged up, I just respray it.
I'm a lefty so finding a left hand autoloader is like finding a unicorn, so's a left hand pump action. Last lefty autoloader I saw was on gunbroker, 1100 trap I believe, and it was more than I'm willing to pay. My mossberg 500 and 835 do just fine for me.
I prefer 870s for turkey hunting because that's what I'm most familiar with. Been using some form of one since I started turkey hunting over 20+ years ago.
My old hunting buddy used to carry a Benelli Nova. Whenever he'd get excited he'd start shaking and that forearm would start chattering.
We called it "The Rattler".
Never actually spooked a bird, and it's killed more than it's fair share.
That being said...i shoot a semi now, but I do miss the feeling of shutting the action after you kill one. I still reflexively try to pump my semi every time i shoot it.
After three shoulder surgeries (Maybe getting a fourth) it is just easier to use an autoloader. Always did anyway, just did not see the sense in reloading manually when it could be right there waiting for you after the first shot. I could also see an argument that less movement for a followup shot though I do think that may be stretching it a bit. I did have some single shots, a Mossberg 500 and other pumps, just did not care for them is all.
25 plus years of my 11-87 12 gauge and never an issue.
I switched from an 870 to the 11-87 because of recoil for the kids to use, Learn to Hunts & Youth hunts. I am now setting up a Franchi Affinity 3 Compact 20ga for this.
Don't know that there is a clear reason as to one or the other as to reliability. I am meticulous on cleaning and maintain my guns.
MK M GOBL
Quote from: dzsmith on February 14, 2022, 12:31:10 PM
seen a lot of comments on "softer shooting" and less recoil. Im assuming most of you are using gassers, because inertia driven shotguns IMO have substantial recoil, enough to not consider it an advantage over a pump anyway.
I haven't found this to be the case in my experience. Gun weight seems to play a bigger part in recoil reduction than action type. I would love to see a real independent,controlled,scientific test to answer this age old question. Gas guns bleed a tiny amount off the barrel to operate the action. An inertia gun uses recoil to unlock the bolt, then residual gas pressure in barrel to cycle the action. Gas guns are generally heavier due to the added parts of the operating system, inertia is generally lighter due to less parts in design. An interesting conundrum, my Vinci has less felt recoil than our A300, although it is lighter than the A300, which is gas operated. I think some gas guns may recoil less than some inertia guns, but i don't think all gas guns recoil less than all inertia guns. And in a properly fitted gun, the difference is probably moot anyways.
Interesting .... I'm no expert in auto loaders . I don't own one, but have fired a couple . Turkeys loads through and sbe2 IMO has enough felt recoil to not put down a pump. Yes the gun is very light and ergonomic. And that may very well be part of the reason why it recoils more.
I use both. I prefer my M2 simply because it's lighter.
I grew up in the 70's in West Virginia when there were a lot of grouse and always thought that an Auto would slow me down. I've emptied a pump gun many times on grouse. :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny: