How much of a difference is 150 FPS?
In the case of LB XR #6's, where a 3.5 2 1/8 shell has roughly 40 more pellets than the 3.5 inch 2oz load.
Would you be better off having a few more pellets on target at 40 yards traveling slower compared to a few less traveling faster?
Depends on how dead you want him?
Have you patterned both? You may find the faster patterns better, who knows. But as far as killing a gobbler goes, it ain't going to make a bit of difference.
Quote from: Squidkid on February 13, 2021, 07:30:00 PM
How much of a difference is 150 FPS?
In the case of LB XR #6's, where a 3.5 2 1/8 shell has roughly 40 more pellets than the 3.5 inch 2oz load.
Would you be better off having a few more pellets on target at 40 yards traveling slower compared to a few less traveling faster?
Depends on how your gun patterns with each load.
The 1300 load number 6 lead pellets should hit as hard at 40 as the 1050 at 33.
You won't get the full velocity benefit of 150fps at 40 yards they say.
Ok, let's say patterns are equal.
How far are you extending your kill yardage from 1050fps to 1200fps?
Just like guesswho said above.
Also
Both 6 lead loads will have rapidly diminishing energy past 40 yards.
Quote from: Squidkid on February 13, 2021, 08:15:52 PM
Ok, let's say patterns are equal.
How far are you extending your kill yardage from 1050fps to 1200fps?
For the sake of ethical shots...none. A load of lead 4,5 or 6s traveling at either speed will roll one at 40yds providing the pattern is sufficient. Lets just leave it at that !
not going to make a bit of difference
"You won't get the full velocity benefit of 150fps at 40 yards they say."
That is a fact. Simple physics. You won't get anywhere near the the benefit of 150 fps at 40 yards.
The faster you launch a pellet the faster it slows and the more it's subject to deform on setback.
As already stated, not going to make a bit of difference is the correct answer.
Funny to me how guys sweat every single pellet in a patterning board but than fall into the HV marketing. In fact they go extremely small sizes just to get more holes in paper. . The density, evenness of a pattern leaves no holes for a birds head to get through. More pellets should help that. I agree it'll never hurt to pattern. Don't worry what works best for us. Don't worry bout theorys or assumptions. Pattern your gun and shoot what works best than decide. A little more speed could actually help if you hit with 1 pellet. If you had say less speed and hit with more than one your actual combined energy striking the target would be higher. No one is considering that, frequency of combined strikes. Either will work but patterns are the ultimate goal. The HV edge is marketing and a way to save for them.
Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on February 14, 2021, 01:34:56 AM
"You won't get the full velocity benefit of 150fps at 40 yards they say."
That is a fact. Simple physics. You won't get anywhere near the the benefit of 150 fps at 40 yards.
The faster you launch a pellet the faster it slows and the more it's subject to deform on setback.
As already stated, not going to make a bit of difference is the correct answer.
Absolutely agree that you won't get the full velocity effect of 150fps at 40 yards, but I can only assume you will get some of it. 2 objects of the same size and weight traveling at different speeds has to have a difference in KE. Correct? That's what I am hoping someone can tell me.
Wont make any difference. Shoot what patterns the best for you.
Not sure if this will help or just help confuse things, but try this link. https://www.randywakeman.com/shotballistics.htm#:~:text=SHOT%20BALLISTICS&text=As%20Edward%20Lowry%20noted%20long,an%20index%20of%20pellet%20shape.
Understand that since shot is a sphere (not rotating like a conical bullet), if it exceeds 1,400 fps the pellet will fly erratically and the pattern will blow up. If you get too fast, you're hurting your objective of tight, uniform patterns. Greater velocities will also contribute to shot deformation (on softer Pb shot, hence the need for plated shot) which would expand the pattern. Buffering helps hold the pattern together, be it solid (like longbeards) or granules that blow away and help maintain a tight shot column.
What would rather be run into by, a freight train running at a moderate speed, or a sports car hauling @$$ ?
Jim
I'm like the others. What's on the box doesn't matter to me. The pattern down range does.
A long time ago I tried to check mine. I have a ProChrono that I used all the time for archery. Well I wanted to see what my shotgun was going to do. Because I read somewhere manufactures measure with a 30" barrel and if you have a shorter barrel it will be less.
Well I set everything up and let her eat. It knocked down my Chrono! Guess having those ported barrels and chokes and shooting a 3.5" shell..... Anyway the Chrono had an error message on the screen... I didn't want to break my Chrono so never checked again.
Good luck and God bless.
Quote from: Squidkid on February 14, 2021, 09:35:41 AM
Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on February 14, 2021, 01:34:56 AM
"You won't get the full velocity benefit of 150fps at 40 yards they say."
That is a fact. Simple physics. You won't get anywhere near the the benefit of 150 fps at 40 yards.
The faster you launch a pellet the faster it slows and the more it's subject to deform on setback.
As already stated, not going to make a bit of difference is the correct answer.
Absolutely agree that you won't get the full velocity effect of 150fps at 40 yards, but I can only assume you will get some of it. 2 objects of the same size and weight traveling at different speeds has to have a difference in KE. Correct? That's what I am hoping someone can tell me.
It's been explained to me that the faster something is the faster it slows down. I don't remember exact specifics but it's the way it cuts through the air and the effect. Do some 40 yard penetration comparison tests if that's something that interest you
Quote from: Cut N Run on February 14, 2021, 11:47:40 AM
Not sure if this will help or just help confuse things, but try this link. https://www.randywakeman.com/shotballistics.htm#:~:text=SHOT%20BALLISTICS&text=As%20Edward%20Lowry%20noted%20long,an%20index%20of%20pellet%20shape.
Understand that since shot is a sphere (not rotating like a conical bullet), if it exceeds 1,400 fps the pellet will fly erratically and the pattern will blow up. If you get too fast, you're hurting your objective of tight, uniform patterns. Greater velocities will also contribute to shot deformation (on softer Pb shot, hence the need for plated shot) which would expand the pattern. Buffering helps hold the pattern together, be it solid (like longbeards) or granules that blow away and help maintain a tight shot column.
What would rather be run into by, a freight train running at a moderate speed, or a sports car hauling @$$ ?
Jim
Thanks for the graph.
As far as the train vs car situation, we aren't talking about any other variable except speed.
So I guess you would have to ask would you rather be hit by a freight train going a moderate speed or the same freight train going 10% faster than the moderate speed?
I think we all can agree with the lower speed.
For those that are saying it doesn't make a difference, if your patterns were the same, would you rather shoot that pattern traveling 1200fps, 1050fps or 900fps?
And why?
I go by Patterns on the Target. Has always worked for me
Quote from: Squidkid on February 14, 2021, 02:59:08 PM
For those that are saying it doesn't make a difference, if your patterns were the same, would you rather shoot that pattern traveling 1200fps, 1050fps or 900fps?
And why?
I like the 1200. Just a bit more energy down range. Don't want much more than that though. Pellet setback and all.
But your shooting long beards so who knows.
Quote from: Squidkid on February 14, 2021, 02:59:08 PM
For those that are saying it doesn't make a difference, if your patterns were the same, would you rather shoot that pattern traveling 1200fps, 1050fps or 900fps?
And why?
If the patterns the same, I'm shooting the heavier pay load with LB. An extra 40 pellets is 10% more shot out of those shells. I care more about them 40 pellets—especially with LB's tendency to shoot splotchy—than I ever would an extra 150fps.
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Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on February 14, 2021, 06:24:23 PM
Quote from: Squidkid on February 14, 2021, 02:59:08 PM
For those that are saying it doesn't make a difference, if your patterns were the same, would you rather shoot that pattern traveling 1200fps, 1050fps or 900fps?
And why?
If the patterns the same, I'm shooting the heavier pay load with LB. An extra 40 pellets is 10% more shot out of those shells. I care more about them 40 pellets—especially with LB's tendency to shoot splotchy—than I ever would an extra 150fps.
Once agaih, If the pattern is the same it doesn't matter what the payload is. Hypothetically 100 in a ten inch circle with a 2 1/8 oz. load is the same as 100 in a ten inch circle with of a 2oz. load.
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Try this. A few years go on here.
Turkey guns page 36. Found ballistic calculators for spheres, April 13, 2015.
Quote from: Squidkid on February 14, 2021, 10:25:18 PM
Quote from: ChesterCopperpot on February 14, 2021, 06:24:23 PM
Quote from: Squidkid on February 14, 2021, 02:59:08 PM
For those that are saying it doesn't make a difference, if your patterns were the same, would you rather shoot that pattern traveling 1200fps, 1050fps or 900fps?
And why?
If the patterns the same, I'm shooting the heavier pay load with LB. An extra 40 pellets is 10% more shot out of those shells. I care more about them 40 pellets—especially with LB's tendency to shoot splotchy—than I ever would an extra 150fps.
Once agaih, If the pattern is the same it doesn't matter what the payload is. Hypothetically 100 in a ten inch circle with a 2 1/8 oz. load is the same as 100 in a ten inch circle with of a 2oz. load.
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If you're only worried about 10" at 40, great. I'm more interested in where the rest of the pattern goes. The other pellets, including that extra 10%, are going somewhere and that somewhere tends to be the safety net for tight constrictions. So, again, I'm going heavier payload.
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Huntalot,
I understand your feelings, but it does matter. 6 years ago I shot a gobbler at 35 yards in Montana. What I thought was a good shot, didn't see s small branch in front of bird just a few yards. I had worked him for an hour and with several moves toward him. When the gun cracked he went down but I couldn't see him due to brush. I ran to him and as I got to where he had been no bird. I turned to my uphill side and there he was hobbling along at 70 or so yards. I had no chance to run him down and instantly shot. May have only been one pellet, but rolled him. It was Hevi-Shot mag blend at 1200fps. As I walked to get him I realized how far he had been and he would have gotten away if I hadn't shot!
With Kind Regards
longbeards
Quote from: owlhoot on February 15, 2021, 12:26:38 AM
Try this. A few years go on here.
Turkey guns page 36. Found ballistic calculators for spheres, April 13, 2015.
Awesome. This is exactly what I was looking for. Definitely shows the extra speed make a difference.
It might only be a few yards, but definitely a difference.
Thanks for looking this up for me.
Your welcome . And if you go back to them years you will find tons of discussions on lead shot and winchester longbeard loads. They really sparked a lot of talk when they first come out. Of course nothing wrong with starting up threads on them again.
Good luck on finding a great load for your gun and you.
I'm currently shooting a strut stopper extreme out of my 835 but have a colonial 'star dot' showing up tomorrow.
If things go right I'll have 6 different rounds to put thru it from LBs to hevi 13 to magnum blend and some Winchester extended.
Looking forward to it.
Quote from: Squidkid on February 15, 2021, 12:13:47 PM
I'm currently shooting a strut stopper extreme out of my 835 but have a colonial 'star dot' showing up tomorrow.
If things go right I'll have 6 different rounds to put thru it from LBs to hevi 13 to magnum blend and some Winchester extended.
Looking forward to it.
if you get some good patterns with the magnum blend or the Winchester extended you don't have to worry about 1050 vs 1200 velocity in my opinion. Those two loads are killers.
We use to kill them with high brass duck and pheasant loads. Back in those days if we had a pretty good pattern in the 20 - 25 yard range we had a shooter. Sometimes i think we get to caught up in over thinking shells. But i will say with TSS, a gun that wouldn't perform so well in the pass with lead, will perform a lot better with TSS... just a different world with these new turkey guns, shells, chokes and you can now carry less weight in a gun. I can remember the day i finally got a 10 ga. it was like dragging a ball and chain around. It was almost like throwing a stick of dynamite at a 25 yard target..
Quote from: Greg Massey on February 15, 2021, 12:41:07 PM
It was almost like throwing a stick of dynamite at a 25 yard target..
This quote made my day.
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Quote from: owlhoot on February 15, 2021, 12:28:46 PM
Quote from: Squidkid on February 15, 2021, 12:13:47 PM
I'm currently shooting a strut stopper extreme out of my 835 but have a colonial 'star dot' showing up tomorrow.
If things go right I'll have 6 different rounds to put thru it from LBs to hevi 13 to magnum blend and some Winchester extended.
Looking forward to it.
if you get some good patterns with the magnum blend or the Winchester extended you don't have to worry about 1050 vs 1200 velocity in my opinion. Those two loads are killers.
I do get a good pattern with the extended. Curious to see how the blend shoots. Get great patterns with the long beard too. I guess I'm one of those guys that get cabin fever and want to tinker with new loads and chokes even tho I have plenty of good options already.
got it. you are not alone there
I'm thinking about the bone collector too. Not sure if I should buy it before trying my 'star dot'
Quote from: Squidkid on February 15, 2021, 02:00:27 PM
I'm thinking about the bone collector too. Not sure if I should buy it before trying my 'star dot'
Never had one of those. Believe I would wait.
I'm also curious about the Carlson long beard choke.
.683 is at least different than the .675 that a lot of other chokes use.
Pattern beats FPS every time. Both loads will kill birds at ethical distances. Nice even patterns are best as they have less "holes"