Turkey Hearing Frequencies

[CrankyTom]

This entire discussion begs the question as to how the researchers determined that all turkeys can, or cannot, hear certain frequencies?  As others here have stated, there is a lot of non-scientific, circumstantial evidence that suggests that maybe,...just maybe,...the study does not reflect reality. 

Now, don't get me wrong,...I really don't have a dog in this fight either way.  I think the entire concept of turkeys and hearing ability is interesting,...but I am personally not going to put much stock in it in terms of how I go about calling turkeys.  For me, they either answer or they don't,...and they either come or they don't.  I'm not going to try to make it any more complicated than that.

It's not "THE" study it was three studies.  All say basically the same thing as far as what frequency range turkeys hear.

Lots of calls and sounds make toms gobble but you wouldn't use them to call in a Tom.

Just because your call makes a Tom gobble doesn't mean it's a call worth using.  It might only be as good as a owl, crow, coyote, peacock, duck or goose call or as good as beating a stick against a tree or slamming a door.  They all make toms gobble too! 

I have numerous sounds that I've tested before and after the spring and fall seasons that bring in the whole flock.  Hens, toms, jakes, they all show up.  All of the sounds are between 290hz and 5,250hz.  Sweeping thru the ranges making multiple sounds within the frequency range. 

Some sound like crickets, some sound like alien radio transmissions from outer space, some sounds are undescribable but they all gets the birds to come within range.  Some of them make the tree frogs croak like crazy.

None of the sounds sound like turkeys, not even close but whole flocks come.  From sunup to sundown they come.  Sometimes it takes some time but I don't change locations eventually they show up. 

The problem is that they are electronic sounds. Mp3 files played from my phone or an mp3 player.  Technically they aren't electronic turkey calls but who knows what a warden or judge would think so I don't use them in season. 

I've been making numerous hand held and mouth blown objects trying to replicate the sounds in the frequency range but so far I'm not happy with any of them even though some work ok.  I had an ocarina made in the frequency range.  It works but not as well as I want.  I think the ocarina sounds to much like birds so it doesn't spark the turkeys curiosity as well as the other sounds.   

Other sounds below 290hz and above 5250hz do nothing.  Nothing shows up ever but if I switch to the hearing frequency range they show up. 

[Ihuntoldschool]

Here is the bottom line.   We are going to continue using the calls that we have found successful over many years and on many gobblers regardless of whether they fit into your agenda or what you want to push on us with your technical studies.  If you want to make it complicated then have at it. The majority of us will keep things simple and continue to use what has worked well over the years. Your studies contradict previous studies and research that was done 25 plus years ago as I pointed out in an earlier post.

It's ludicrous and downright comical for you to suggest all the longbeards we called in on calls that don't fit your little narrow frequency range came all the way in to the shotgun out of curiosity over an unknown sound.  The fact is they came in looking for the hen they heard, gobbling their way in in response to our hen calls, many of which if we are to believe what you're selling could not even be heard by the turkeys. 

You should by all means use what works for you and what you have confidence in.  But you're wasting your time trying to sell us on your agenda, we ain't buying what you're selling. 

[CrankyTom]

Here is the bottom line.   We are going to continue using the calls that we have found successful over many years and on many gobblers regardless of whether they fit into your agenda or what you want to push on us with your technical studies.  If you want to make it complicated then have at it. The majority of us will keep things simple and continue to use what has worked well over the years. Your studies contradict previous studies and research that was done 25 plus years ago as I pointed out in an earlier post.

It's ludicrous and downright comical for you to suggest all the longbeards we called in on calls that don't fit your little narrow frequency range came all the way in to the shotgun out of curiosity over an unknown sound.  The fact is they came in looking for the hen they heard, gobbling their way in in response to our hen calls, many of which if we are to believe what you're selling could not even be heard by the turkeys. 

You should by all means use what works for you and what you have confidence in.  But you're wasting your time trying to sell us on your agenda, we ain't buying what you're selling.

Your bottom line my bottom line and other people's bottom line are surely different.  Not everyone has the same bottom line.

I suggested and informed others of how they could check the frequency of their calls.  Is that what you call an agenda?  I'm not selling anything now nor will I be selling anything in the future!  No agenda at all!  I would tell everyone what worked and they could choose to try it. 

Who is "We" do you speak for everyone here? 

I really dont care who uses what call. They can use whatever they want! I know a guy who sands the bottom of a  aluminum soda can and uses it to call!  Who cares???  I certainly don't!

I'm assuming that this is what you are calling a study and research?
  http://www.turkeyhunting247.com/Article/the-truth-behind-high-frquency-calls-Page1.htm.

An article written by someone who is on the pro staff of the company selling the call that he is writting about.  That's an agenda It's not a study or research.  He is saying they got a response not that any of the toms showed up.  Go out in the woods and bang the top of an aluminum trash can with a bat and you will probably get an even better response.

If you heard the sounds that have repeatedly brought in whole flocks and saw it happen with your own eyes and ears would you still think it's ludicrous?  It is comical But it brings in whole flocks not just toms.  There is no other explanation except curiosity as the sounds are very different from each other. 

I never said that all calls are out of the frequency range stated in three funded studies performed by universities.   Even the high frequency calls make sounds that fall within the range.

Again I don't have an agenda and I'm not selling anything.   

If my posts bother you don't read them. 

[Rapscallion Vermilion]

Other sounds below 290hz and above 5250hz do nothing.  Nothing shows up ever but if I switch to the hearing frequency range they show up.

I have made countless spectrograms over the years of both real turkeys calling and various types of turkey calls run by a number of different talented callers.  The vast majority of real turkey calls and their imitations have almost zero content below 290 Hz and above 5250 Hz. So there is little anyone needs to be concerned about. One interesting exception is the spit and drum.  The spit, has some very high frequency content, and the drum is around 100 Hz or less. 

I do have some questions/concerns about the studies you have cited.  Were they performed on wild turkeys or domestic turkeys?  I don't know that there would be a big difference, but there could be.  Are the low and high frequency limits in those charts just the limit of what was actually tested? 

Both Tom Kelly and Kenny Morgan recall, in their books, personal experiences of watching turkeys suddenly get alarmed and it was on the order of a minute or two before they heard what the turkeys heard. In both cases, the low frequency sound of a vehicle approaching.  I expect many on here have had similar experiences, which argues against the claim that wild turkeys have less sensitive hearing than humans do.

[CrankyTom]

Other sounds below 290hz and above 5250hz do nothing.  Nothing shows up ever but if I switch to the hearing frequency range they show up.

I have made countless spectrograms over the years of both real turkeys calling and various types of turkey calls run by a number of different talented callers.  The vast majority of real turkey calls and their imitations have almost zero content below 290 Hz and above 5250 Hz. So there is little anyone needs to be concerned about. One interesting exception is the spit and drum.  The spit, has some very high frequency content, and the drum is around 100 Hz or less. 

I do have some questions/concerns about the studies you have cited.  Were they performed on wild turkeys or domestic turkeys?  I don't know that there would be a big difference, but there could be.  Are the low and high frequency limits in those charts just the limit of what was actually tested? 

Both Tom Kelly and Kenny Morgan recall, in their books, personal experiences of watching turkeys suddenly get alarmed and it was on the order of a minute or two before they heard what the turkeys heard. In both cases, the low frequency sound of a vehicle approaching.  I expect many on here have had similar experiences, which argues against the claim that wild turkeys have less sensitive hearing than humans do.

The frequencies in the charts is what they hear it is not what ranges were tested. A simple Google search will return numerous articles stating that very few birds of any kind can hear frequencies over 5,000 Hz.  This is a short article...

https://ornithology.com/the-hearing-of-birds/

I've tested plenty of calls that tested higher than 10,000 Hz.  That's why I suggested in an earlier post to get a free spectrum analyzer phone app and test your calls. 

Maybe the turkeys that Tom Kelly and Kenny Morgan witnessed felt vibrations on their feet?  I posted a screenshot here about the myth of birds hearing better than humans. 

[Rapscallion Vermilion]

The frequencies in the charts is what they hear it is not what ranges were tested.

Well that can't be quite right.  One of your charts cuts off at 500 Hz and the other below 250 Hz.  Just taking one of the charts as given, I doubt the turkey could hear something at say 125 Hz and nothing at all at 124 Hz.  Real ears don't have sharp band pass filters.

[CrankyTom]

The charts show a U shape.  It's not like they just cut off they taper off.
The newer chart was from a study that was done many years after the other  study.  I'm assuming with better equipment?

[CrankyTom]

Test your hearing.  I can't hear 15,000hz

https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/

[larry9988]

I am very interested in all of this. Could you post a sound file of some of the sounds you have used to call in whole flocks. I have eastern turkeys that I hatched from eggs three springs ago and they make some sounds we probably will never here in a typical hunting environment. One of my hens has started this growling thing that I had never heard before this spring.

[CrankyTom]

I am very interested in all of this. Could you post a sound file of some of the sounds you have used to call in whole flocks. I have eastern turkeys that I hatched from eggs three springs ago and they make some sounds we probably will never here in a typical hunting environment. One of my hens has started this growling thing that I had never heard before this spring.

There are a whole lot of them.  Do you have an android phone or tablet?  If so install this app and set it like the pic attached here.  Change the frequencies and seconds.  Keep the frequencies between 290 and 5250. Change the seconds from 0.01 to as high as you want. Every one of them will work!  Try playing some classical music too!  Watch how the turkeys relax, sing, dance (sometimes) and listen to the music.  It's amazing! 

Check this video out...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCTURufVLVI

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.boedec.hoel.frequencygenerator

[Rapscallion Vermilion]

The charts show a U shape.  It's not like they just cut off they taper off.
The newer chart was from a study that was done many years after the other  study.  I'm assuming with better equipment?

That's my point.  It doesn't make sense to apply a sharp cutoff to the frequencies at which they can hear.  The newer paper goes down to 125 Hz. I doubt a turkey's hearing suddenly stops there either.  As mentioned in one of the papers I found, the so-called limits are determined by setting an arbitrary dB threshold.  A 2004 paper I found puts the upper "limit" of a turkey's hearing at 6600 Hz. 

[CrankyTom]

The charts show a U shape.  It's not like they just cut off they taper off.
The newer chart was from a study that was done many years after the other  study.  I'm assuming with better equipment?

That's my point.  It doesn't make sense to apply a sharp cutoff to the frequencies at which they can hear.  The newer paper goes down to 125 Hz. I doubt a turkey's hearing suddenly stops there either.  As mentioned in one of the papers I found, the so-called limits are determined by setting an arbitrary dB threshold.  A 2004 paper I found puts the upper "limit" of a turkey's hearing at 6600 Hz.

I would think any study would have slightly different high/low frequencies.  There isn't much difference between 5,290 hz and 6,600 Hz.

I'm no expert on sound at all I'm just going by what I read and try for myself.

Where do you see 125 hz?  Where it says center frequency 1.22 khz?
1.22 kHz = 1,220 hz

The lower limit in the newer chart is 0.29 khz
0.29 khz = 290 hz

If there is a K before Hz that means x 1,000.

The way that I see the charts the low and high frequencies increase in volume.  They can hear 290 at 60 db. Above 60 db is harmful and hurts turkey ears.  In humans above 85 db can be harmful/painful.  For turkeys the best db/loudness is 15.43 db.  Look up decibel pain levels.
Db spl = decibel sound pressure level. 

Dancing wild turkeys:      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc71X5NLbYU

[Rapscallion Vermilion]

Where do you see 125 hz?  Where it says center frequency 1.22 khz?
1.22 kHz = 1,220 hz

The newer chart, which you said shows the frequencies at which the turkeys have been shown to hear, has data down to .125 KHz (125 Hz).  What you are calling the "lower limit" was determined by an arbitrary dB threshold.

[CrankyTom]

Where do you see 125 hz?  Where it says center frequency 1.22 khz?
1.22 kHz = 1,220 hz

The newer chart, which you said shows the frequencies at which the turkeys have been shown to hear, has data down to .125 KHz (125 Hz).  What you are calling the "lower limit" was determined by an arbitrary dB threshold.

I don't see .125 Hz or khz anywhere.

The lower limit on the chart says 0.29 Khz 0.29 Khz = 290 Hz. 

The center frequency says 1.22 Khz.  1.22 Khz = 1,220 Hz.

I don't know what you mean by an arbitrary threshold?   What I see is that they can hear 290 Hz at 60 db and 2,000 Hz at about 15 db and about 5,000 Hz at 60 db.  Above 60 db is harmful and hurts.   The charts are pretty clear, both charts show a range of frequencies that the turkeys can hear.  The older chart shows the frequencies that humans with good hearing can hear. 

[Rapscallion Vermilion]

Where do you see 125 hz?  Where it says center frequency 1.22 khz?
1.22 kHz = 1,220 hz

The newer chart, which you said shows the frequencies at which the turkeys have been shown to hear, has data down to .125 KHz (125 Hz).  What you are calling the "lower limit" was determined by an arbitrary dB threshold.

The lower limit on the chart says 0.29 Khz 0.29 Khz = 290 Hz. 

The center frequency says 1.22 Khz.  1.22 Khz = 1,220 Hz.

I don't know what you mean by an arbitrary threshold?   What I see is that they can hear 290 Hz at 60 db and 2,000 Hz at about 15 db and about 5,000 Hz at 60 db.  Above 60 db is harmful and hurts.   The charts are pretty clear, both charts show a range of frequencies that the turkeys can hear.  The older chart shows the frequencies that humans with good hearing can hear.

You are reading the words in the legend, but not looking at the data.  If you go back to the older paper, they set that horizontal line at 60 dB to determine the upper limit at 6600 Hz. I believe the words in that paper say something to that effect that it is an arbitrary decibel level for that determination.  The newer data shows a response all the way down to 125 Hz at 60 dB.  Looking at the newer chart, at 125 Hz the determined threshold is about 60 dB, likewise at 6600 Hz, it is about 60 dB.   At 290 Hz, the threshold is closer to 40 dB.  I suspect your newer source chose an arbitrary 40 dB threshold to set upper and lower limits.  60 dB is the sound level of normal speech in conversation.  The human pain threshold is around 120 dB.