Why seasons should start later.

[3bailey3]

Great post, I would like to se MS. move it back to late March, around the 28 and then cut the last week of season off also..

[Spitten and drummen]

Great post, I would like to se MS. move it back to late March, around the 28 and then cut the last week of season off also..

I agree with this. I may catch some heat for saying this but in my opinion do away with youth season also. Open reg season last week of march and end the 3rd week of april.

[3bailey3]

I so agree Jody, the youth starting on the 10 or 12 is way to early and the only ones that are getting killed late are mostly ambushed.

[AppalachianHollers]

If Tennessee pushed their seasons up a week, the youth hunt would open April 4th, Opening Day would be the 11th, and the season's end would be May 24th.


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[Deafman]

Here in Ontario they open our season April 25th every year. Way to early! We start hunting large flocks that some years haven't even started to break up yet. Today I watched 9 toms roosted in one tree and fly down to strut and fight. They were still chasing each other around fighting at lunch time.

[dah]

In Oklahoma we have split open season . Seven counties in the south east open two weeks after the rest of state . I don't believe this was done for breeding purpose but to reduce pressure on the birds due to declining bird numbers . The limit is one bird total from any one of the seven counties . State wide limit is three with one and two tom counties .  This split started approximate ten years ago . No change in bird numbers has been noted that I am aware of . The delayed opening continues , bag limit has stayed the same for this period of time , maybe birds are doing better but I have not seen any evidence nor heard of anything better .

I am just pointing out in this example , I haven't seen that a later opening in this area , with this habitat and with these birds , it doesn't seem to be making a huge impact other than I don't know what population numbers would have done if they had not made a change . These are the Eastern birds where as  most of the state are Rio's. This area is also heavy canopy with pine and hard wood . I wonder if the canopy is more of a problem than breeding . They have some food plots , but lack open area .

I am starting to think our department manages more for deer than anything else . Although the deer would benefit from open areas . We have had wma's controlled burns the week of turkey season opening . Wrap your head around that and then talk about breeding and nesting .  Not typical but has happened . When asked why they are burning turkey nest , answer was the good outweighed the bad . Obviously not for turkeys .

  I think our hens are bred before we open and are laying eggs . Do they continue  to breed , yes , but I think they are fertile when we take to the woods . Some ,not all of the hens have left the gobblers for good in the last week of season . 

  Just a few thoughts from a man with one week left to hunt and still hasn't pulled the trigger . Just thank the good Lord for places to hunt , my health and a magnificent bird .

[Delmar ODonnell]

I hope Mississippi adopts a later season opener soon. Last year, 51% of the total harvest was killed before April 1, which in my experience in North Mississippi is around the date you'll begin to find a gobbler or 2 without his harem, although you'll still find most still breeding then too.

[Paulmyr]

I think some people see the problem as taking to many Tom's from the population. I think the problem is more inline with when they are taken. If taken before or during peak breeding. Hens would normally be nesting/ brood rearing during a shorter time span making them less likely to suffer loss due to predation. An overabundance of prey for a finite number of predators. Only so many will be taken out. Take the Tom's out early and breeding/nesting/brood rearing last for an extended period of time giving the finite population of predators more time to do damage.
Yes hens can and do renest but these second attempts rarely result in success. The later in the season a hen polt is reared the less likely it is to survive until next spring.

The problem is more likely a hen predation/recruitment problem. I believe Dr Chamberlain stated it this way. I hen needs to replace herself with one hen that lives as long as she did for the population to be stable. Every hen in the population needs to do this. As it sits right now that is not happening in states with early season start dates. Once critical mass reached creates a downward spiral. Fewer hens this spring means fewer hens next spring and so on.

This problem will not be reversed by changing the season start dates for a couple years to see what happens. It will take decades for the population to stabilize and grow back to levels experienced in the past. Increased predator populations due to land management and callapse of the fur market I'm sure are not helping the matter but not the main factor contributing to the low hen recruitment levels. So you may still be able to take 3 or 5 Tom's a year with out effecting populations. You just need to do it after peak breeding.

[Hatchet Jack]

Interesting read. Good food for thought.

[Goodtimekiller]

If moving the seasons back is the answer, how have population grown so much with these opening dates? It doesn't seem to make sense.


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[camotoe]

Most populations are dropping from what I read ?


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[trkehunr93]

GPS tags/collars are debunking ALOT of what we once thought about turkeys, Whitetail's, etc.  Dr. Chamberlain spoke of another biologist Bill, don't remember his last name, who spoke in a round about way that seasons needed to start later back in the 70's and 80's.  I have no problem with a season structure change here in VA, if it's backed by sound science then I'm in full support of it.  An issue I feel is impacting turkeys is the absolute lack of trapping, lots of nest predators running around without any worry other than getting run over by a car. 


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[Spitten and drummen]

While on this subject , I was and am in the camp of later opening and earlier closing but started thinking on it. Now in Mississippi , the season dates have been consistent for as long as I can remember. Back in the 80's and 90's we had a large population of birds. They were doing fine. Then the early 2000's it was good but not as good as those past years. Then the birds started declining rapidly. Places that held birds no longer had any. What I noticed was that timber harvest blew up and many expansive hardwood tracts disappeared. Along with that , coon hunting and trapping all but disappeared. On top of that , people started turkey hunting because popularity took off. Now , those are the main changes I have seen between the 80's and 90's up until present. It really does not take a biologist to put 2 and 2 together. Simply look at what changed and find the common donominators. In the big picture I dont think the hunting dates caused the problem. I do think however that the increase in hunters increased the harvest which over all did/does have a impact on the population. Put all these things I have posted together and its a perfect storm for declining numbers. I am all for people wanting to start turkey hunting , but you always hear that we need more hunter recruitment. I completely disagree as in my state it appears the number of people who hunt turkeys now have exploded at the seams and really impacted the birds. Simple math shows that the more people hunting , the larger the harvest. Take into account the turkey killers who do not care about limits , just the number they can kill. Down here in the South I have heard of guys killing a dozen gobblers a season. There were a group of 6 or 7 people who was just arrested recently that was charged with killing over 120 birds in 5 different counties around where I hunt. They were also trespassing while doing that. Thats right , a 120 birds. Throw in youth week in this discussion as well. I know plenty of guys that take kids that can barely hold up a gun and they kill birds. We all know who is killing the majority of these birds. Also a youth is up to the age of 16. I know some of these 13 and 14 year olds that are better turkey hunters than many adults. Its just insane. This is just my 2 cents. Sorry for the long post.

[AppalachianHollers]

Spitten and drummen, I think there's a mixture of good and bad things in your list.
A solution to more hunters is lower seasonal bag limits. But it really does seem like (at least North) MS's season might overlap with peak breeding. That's a problem. A surfeit of 13-14 year-olds who are master woodsmen isn't, but it is a blessing to the sport.


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[FL-Boss]

Ton of factors.. and every state is different. Hell I even see a lot of difference from 2 properties that are only 5 miles apart.
I would first eliminate all fall hunting....  not a big deal for the southern guys as the large majority don't hunt turkey in the fall. But may be an issue for the north east folks.  Also.. no hens ever, any state, any season.
Also don't see why more than 3 gobbler tags should be permitted anywhere...