YouTube and public land

[arkrem870]

For all animals. Not just turkeys.

[greencop01]

Not to ruffle 'feathers' but last I checked this is the UNITED STATES of AMERICA and we all have the right to hunt any state we want, as long as we abide by the laws of the state(s) we hunt. As citizens of a state you also have the right to attend game board meetings and write or speak to state reps and politicians with your concerns; have you? What I read on these posts is a prejudice for out of staters. Dave Owens works hard and so do the other you-tubers. What I think is that we have a bunch of not in my back yard people. I for myself am a USMC veteran from the 70's. I earned the right to see this country and if it is aiming at a turkey this is my choice, no one has a say except the Fish & Game Dept of the state I am hunting in, if I'm hunting public land. This is bigotry, period. If you have a problem with out of staters talk with your Fish & Game Depts. I am a Hunter Safety Volunteer Instructor, are you? What do you do for your state's Fish & Game? You don't live in a Wisconsin vacuum, you live in the USA and you profit from 50 states in that comprises this country, not just your state.  I'm sick and tired of this type of hunting debate. If its not turkeys, its deer, elk you name it. We are divided and that is not a good thing. Sorry I have rambled here but what is being espoused by some here is not our shining moment. I love turkey hunting and its rich history of call making and writing on the subject and our relationship with this bird which should be elevated to big game status. Let's find ways to bring ALL of us together and not push us apart. Let's remember the turkey and the turkey hunter is the lowest common denominator between us, no matter where we live or who we are.  Lets not........

[arkrem870]

We should come together as hunters and agree that people exploiting public lands for profit isn't good for the resource. Isnt good for our states. And isn't a good look for hunters in general.

[Happy]

I guess I should come out and say I have no gripes with anyone doing the utube thing. I don't subscribe to anyone and never will. Heck Dave and the hunting public are the only videos i have seen some of.This is nothing personal with me whatsoever. However I am concerned about wildlife populations as well as good conservation practices. If someone is making a profit off of public lands then it only makes sense that they put back into the system so to speak. Market hunting isn't a huge stretch to make as a comparison and we all know how that turned out. I just think we need to catch up to the times and adjust game laws and regulations to the point that our resources win. That may even mean some sacrifices down the road for me and I am ok with that. I try and make it to where I give more to the land than I receive anyways and am teaching my children the same.

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[catman529]

Maybe we should get our congressmen/women and senators to extend the excise tax to hunting and fishing videos on youtube. Outside of guns and gear and license the youtubers are not contributing anymore than everyone else is....it's more a subtraction.

it seems pretty clear to me that hunting license, tag, and wma permit sales have gone up, especially nonresident sales, since the public land videos have become popular. So wouldn't that mean that these videos are actually bringing more revenue to the state for wildlife management? It's like free advertising for them. I'm not cool with naming counties, showing road names, gate numbers, etc, and have been a lot more careful with those kind of things myself in the past couple years. But naming the state definitely attracts more people to spend their money in that state, even residents who previously didn't hunt turkey or public land, might go and buy their license/WMA permit and give it a shot.

I get it we don't like too much competition, and keeping your spots to yourself is important, but we need to remember we as hunters are all on the same team, and are stronger in numbers. If there's an issue with wild turkey management, we need to try and find some common ground to agree on, and talk to the people in charge of wildlife management, rather than point fingers at each other and call names.



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[redleg06]

I get it we don't like too much competition, and keeping your spots to yourself is important, but we need to remember we as hunters are all on the same team, and are stronger in numbers. If there's an issue with wild turkey management, we need to try and find some common ground to agree on, and talk to the people in charge of wildlife management, rather than point fingers at each other and call names.

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That's all fine and good but some groups need to be more careful about sharing locations. It's not just gate numbers-  A little common sense can be used to track down where they are hunting based on a number of other things that are being shown in the videos.  If you want to document hunts, fine....but it just needs to be done in such a way that doesn't attract a ton of attention to where the location is.  I'm not going to name names but some of it is the "b-roll" footage they show in the different towns, and the traveling they are doing. 

[eggshell]

it seems pretty clear to me that hunting license, tag, and wma permit sales have gone up, especially nonresident sales, since the public land videos have become popular. So wouldn't that mean that these videos are actually bringing more revenue to the state for wildlife management? It's like free advertising for them

I can concede there is truth in that. Whether we like it or not I would venture to guess that as big money makers go, turkey hunting is not one of the big players in most states. Deer, elk, and other big game animals probably way out sell turkeys. Even fishing is a bigger draw in most states. Yet non resident hunting is a big deal economically, as hunters pay more for non resident tags and the money they spend on food, gas and lodging is big. Just speaking for myself, I am not so much against you all doing the video thing or against out of state hunters as some one else said ( I will welcome and help out of staters that are polite and thoughtful, there are some on this forum that can verify that). What I am against is the revealing specific areas. I think a large part of the beef is on that line of thinking, not being resentful of anyone's opportunity to enjoy the sport. When specifics are given it creates situations that are not good for hunters or wildlife. I have found one truth, if you have an area pounded from one of these situations it usually only last a season or two and people then shy away after a few bad experiences.

Oh catman I wasn't being serious on that. I shouldn't of made a sarcastic statement without saying it was such.

[g8rvet]

Duck hunter here.  I can name 5 different places in 3 states that have been overcrowded to the point of changing the migration.  All because of the internet, not just youtube.  But Youtube reaches a lot of folks as well.  My home lake was pretty much turned into a tourist destination thanks to an article in the DU magazine back in the mid 90s.  When I called, as a banquet volunteer and long time sponsor to get help from them on the Feds spraying our lake, DU-a supposed conservation organization, told me they were not interested and said the birds will just go somewhere else.  Last dime they ever got from me. 

I am also a saltwater flats fisherman and have seen the need for changing of the limit on redfish and speckled trout due to out of state fisherman and the internet as well.  I have literally seen 50 boats in a half mile stretch of river.  All due to loose lips sink ships.  Now folks from South Florida are heading north as their fisheries have been wiped out and ours is still more liberal.

Youtube did not create most of those problems, but you can bet that it is going to affect the future of turkey hunting in many areas.  It already has. 

Call your local game commission and have your voice heard. 

I like the thought someone up thread said that any money made from videoing on public land be treated the same as guiding on public land.  It is pretty much the same thing.

Someone also said that the public land belongs to everyone.  Sorta.  Depends if it is state owned or federal too.  There are still plenty of restrictions on all public land and regardless if you are in state or out of state, making any profit from public land is a big difference from just hunting in another state.  So is trashing it by outing it on the internet.   

PS  A huge thanks to everyone, with a couple minor exceptions, for keeping this a civil dialogue all while holding very different and conflicting opinions. 

[silent tom]

Maybe we should get our congressmen/women and senators to extend the excise tax to hunting and fishing videos on youtube. Outside of guns and gear and license the youtubers are not contributing anymore than everyone else is....it's more a subtraction.

it seems pretty clear to me that hunting license, tag, and wma permit sales have gone up, especially nonresident sales, since the public land videos have become popular. So wouldn't that mean that these videos are actually bringing more revenue to the state for wildlife management? It's like free advertising for them. I'm not cool with naming counties, showing road names, gate numbers, etc, and have been a lot more careful with those kind of things myself in the past couple years. But naming the state definitely attracts more people to spend their money in that state, even residents who previously didn't hunt turkey or public land, might go and buy their license/WMA permit and give it a shot.

I get it we don't like too much competition, and keeping your spots to yourself is important, but we need to remember we as hunters are all on the same team, and are stronger in numbers. If there's an issue with wild turkey management, we need to try and find some common ground to agree on, and talk to the people in charge of wildlife management, rather than point fingers at each other and call names.



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Some common ground would be you guys quit naming states, showing Corp land, campgrounds, local towns, etc.

If a person is sure enough hunting for the sake of the sport why does it matter where his or her two feet are planted at the time of doing so???

[cuttinAR]

After reading some of this, specifically the Wisconsin increase, I tend to agree with silent toms last post.  Now I do believe there is some jealousy in regards to some of these guys and the fame/status they have in the turkey world but the basis of the argument has merit.

Part of the "cool" factor is the turkey tour and traveling to multiple states.  If the intent was to just show the hunt there is no reason to name the state or show anything that is not entirely related to the hunt.  Start filming on the walk in and quit after the hunt.  If it's about the hunt and teaching people the right thing to do that's all that is necessary.

I will say that I don't believe that the YouTube guys have caused the increase entirely.  I hunted a WMA in Alabama that is far from where the epicenter of the YouTube guys and it was crowded as hell.  Way more than normal.  Another instance is how popular Kansas became and how bad it got in terms of hunting pressure followed by collapse of the population.  That was all before YouTube, it was word of mouth. 

Saying that I think the guys that are traveling to other states should make every effort to not call attention to that state.  Due to any number of reasons it could be someone's only public hunting area that becomes the next parking lot on opening day.

[tracker vi]

So...the sport needs new recruits , but not in my wma county or state...alrighty then

[3chunter]

I have mixed feelings on all of this.  States should probably do like SC and limit the out of staters more then the residents on number of tags.  I know these out of staters pay more for tags and such but in my opinion why should a resident who spends countless hours on trapping and then spends thousands Planting and such have the same number of tags as a guy showing up for 3 days trying to kill a limit.   Plus the guys filming are profiting in one way or another.   I think give them less tags or come up with a tag earn system.   Like trap 10 raccoons, get an extra tag.  Something like that.

[Delmar ODonnell]

After reading some of this, specifically the Wisconsin increase, I tend to agree with silent toms last post.  Now I do believe there is some jealousy in regards to some of these guys and the fame/status they have in the turkey world but the basis of the argument has merit.

Part of the "cool" factor is the turkey tour and traveling to multiple states.  If the intent was to just show the hunt there is no reason to name the state or show anything that is not entirely related to the hunt.  Start filming on the walk in and quit after the hunt.  If it's about the hunt and teaching people the right thing to do that's all that is necessary.

I will say that I don't believe that the YouTube guys have caused the increase entirely.  I hunted a WMA in Alabama that is far from where the epicenter of the YouTube guys and it was crowded as hell.  Way more than normal.  Another instance is how popular Kansas became and how bad it got in terms of hunting pressure followed by collapse of the population.  That was all before YouTube, it was word of mouth. 

Saying that I think the guys that are traveling to other states should make every effort to not call attention to that state.  Due to any number of reasons it could be someone's only public hunting area that becomes the next parking lot on opening day.

Well said.

I don't believe any of those guys want to overrun an area/state, but are negligent enough at times that people can do a little digging and find out where they were. One person can then tell the masses on one of the many facebook groups with 50k+ members. (I joined one for the first time the other day and was appalled at the information that was flippantly given out every other post.) I don't believe the youtubers are the ones holding a blowtorch to an area, but with their following, they certainly have the potential to be the spark that lights it.

Admittedly, I do enjoy watching hunting videos, and I think a lot of the Youtube content provides more enjoyable "hunting" videos rather than "paying $xxx amount to shoot something" videos seen on the Outdoor Channel.
The suggestions of stopping the unnecessary B-roll and not naming states are good ones, and it would be interesting to see if any of those guys would be receptive to the idea. If not, I encourage anyone that disagrees with filming on public land to contact state agencies / elective representatives and voice those concerns.

It was discouraging to see some less than civil comments in this thread, mainly because I believe most of those guys sincerely do care about the resource. Some are making their living full time hunting, but that doesn't mean they have malicious intent to "pimp out public lands," even when there are negative consequences to their actions.

[catman529]

I get it we don't like too much competition, and keeping your spots to yourself is important, but we need to remember we as hunters are all on the same team, and are stronger in numbers. If there's an issue with wild turkey management, we need to try and find some common ground to agree on, and talk to the people in charge of wildlife management, rather than point fingers at each other and call names.

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That's all fine and good but some groups need to be more careful about sharing locations. It's not just gate numbers-  A little common sense can be used to track down where they are hunting based on a number of other things that are being shown in the videos.  If you want to document hunts, fine....but it just needs to be done in such a way that doesn't attract a ton of attention to where the location is.  I'm not going to name names but some of it is the "b-roll" footage they show in the different towns, and the traveling they are doing.

Trust me I know. Hence my comment about being much more careful what I say or show in the past couple years. I'm not trying to give away honey holes, I'm trying to give advice on finding and hunting turkeys in general and share my hunts with people who want to watch.


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[eggshell]

a while back I posted a thread on how we treat each other and I think we all need to dial back our emotions some and think about all sides. I agree with most the videos create problems for not only the resource, but the user when specifics are shared about location. shane, Catman and Dave have all engaged and defended themselves, I respect their willingness to have a a dialog with us. There is a Bible verse that applies in all situations; do unto others as you'd have them do unto you. when doing something it's good to ask yourself, "how would I feel if I were the other person". The local guys are passionate about preserving their resource and the quality of their hunt and the video producers are committing to providing entertainment and educational resources. Let's stop and find some common ground. One thing is for sure, civil discussion is good. I suspect that as they built on their brand none of these guys thought they were doing anything harmful to anyone. Now at least three of them have heard our concerns, let's give them a chance to address them. Maybe they think we have a valid point maybe they don't. I do think we will see states start to address issues if they become harmful to the resource or their constituents, which are residents first, then everyone else.  Lost in this is there are a lot of hunters who simply don't have other options to travel or hunt elsewhere. A hunter lives and pays taxes and has his home in a community and he has a local WMA or state forest as his only place or best place to turkey hunt. Every year he contends with other people and they all find time and space. Then one year someone from another state rolls in and broadcast this spot to literally the world and the following year he rolls up and finds there is not even a place to park. Of course it's public and everyone has a right, but he has no option in his own back yard. Sure you can say he needs to just deal with it because it's public, but I understand why he's pissed too. The guy who lead them all here is gone after a 2-3 day visit and is off somewhere else doing his thing, but poor ole local is stuck in the carnage. This will probably last a few years or may be ruined for a long time. He used to have private land to hunt, but after all the shows and videos about how great the hunting is in XYZ out of state money bags have leased up all the farm ground. One simple rule would help alleviate all this grief...,don't reveal locations!