YouTube and public land

[rstewart8706]

Jealousy of Dave and youtubers absolutely has 0 to do with it. I enjoyed watching their shows and applouded it before i saw first hand what it was becoming. Everywhere he hunts become the next new hotspot the next season The main problem I have is the new breed of hunter they are spawning. They have create the "all I care about is getting mine" type of hunters. Those type of hunters would stop or drastically cut down their thrill kills if they couldn't post on a social media platform.Those type of hunters are Whats going to bring this whole thing down!  Dave knows damn well what he has created and is continuing to create. And don't let Dave be a hypocrite with calling him out for saying its not all about numbers and kills. For example look at what he did in his Wisconsin trip in 2019.  How many did yall kill there Dave? Not only did u keep going back and harvesting bird after bird but u also brought in several different people to do the same. Yall know why he did this? VIEWS AND LIKES! Its literally ur job now Dave  and ur finances depend it. Its a business to him now people Profit! Dave u can hid behind a cloak of doing it for the love of the hunt or whatever u claim but the simple truth is ur doing it now because u can't stop. Its become to big and as long as u keep making money the hell with everyone else and the most of all to hell with the resources. But hey Dave u got yours though so congrats.

You bet I'm jealous of Dave. Have you seen Courtney? 

[Howie g]

Rstewart , something tells me your a arkie 

[redleg06]

It's kind of crazy that turkey hunting is this far behind duck hunting when it comes to people figuring out that loose lips sink ships...  I remember when I started duck hunting 20 years ago,  you could lose friends if you told ANYONE where you were hunting and I mean what part of a state you were hunting in

It was for good reason. It didn't take much to start seeing boat ramps turn in to boat shows at 3:30a.m and then watch them drag-race to spots in the middle of the night. 

It's not just youtubers...its facebook groups, forums, youtube channels, and just guys telling their buddies....who then don't have enough sense to not post locations on said groups and forums. 

[GobbleNut]

Not trying to belabor this discussion, but all of this brings to mind what has happened with the western states and the allotment of hunting opportunity for most big game species.  Everything has pretty much gone to a draw system, and almost all western states now allot only about 10% of their permits to nonresidents. 

If all the talk about nonresidents overrunning public-land turkey hunting is some states is a reality, I would fully expect to start seeing more states putting a limit on nonresident permits and allotting those permits through a drawing. 

[deerhunt1988]

Not trying to belabor this discussion, but all of this brings to mind what has happened with the western states and the allotment of hunting opportunity for most big game species.  Everything has pretty much gone to a draw system, and almost all western states now allot only about 10% of their permits to nonresidents. 

If all the talk about nonresidents overrunning public-land turkey hunting is some states is a reality, I would fully expect to start seeing more states putting a limit on nonresident permits and allotting those permits through a drawing.

If the current trend continues, there is a good chance there will be reduced opportunity in some form or fashion. The easiest resolution would be more draw/quota hunts or shortened seasons. But we are already seeing proposals for shortening entire state seasons and limit reductions. I have personally hunted a few public areas the past couple springs where there are serious safety concerns, especially on opening weekend/week. I hunted these same areas anywhere from 3-5 seasons prior and they weren't near as bad as they are now.

As a participant in many western draw systems, I really hope turkey hunting doesn't go that way, but it very well could. A few examples:

-Arkansas's restrictions on non-resident duck hunters utilizing WMAs
-South Carolina's reduced turkey bag limit for non-residents

Western big game hunting is also starting to price people out of the game, but application numbers just keep rising due to demand. Application numbers have also been rising for turkey hunting in the east, as demand for public land hunting is higher than it has ever been in my lifetime.

Currently Florida doesn't have a cap on regular non-resident quota permits. I have the Florida draw data from two recent years and point creep is already happening in south Florida. I would not be surprised at all if Florida eventually puts a non-resident cap on their normal quota permits like they do their special opportunity ones. In fact, it'd make sense for them to in order to take care of their residents. They'd just lose some non-resident WMA permit sales (requirement to apply for draw hunts).

I actually sort of like the idea someone mentioned earlier in this thread about a 1-bird limit for non-residents. That'd definitely help spread the non-resident pressure. I've hunted several 1-bird states and often have fantastic hunts in them.

Or, do what western states are doing, and raise prices. Iowa is approaching $300 for a single bird now. That is a bit extreme but it'd definitely spread pressure. I'd hate for anyone to be priced out of the game, but don't be surprised if it happens. The possibility is very real. Several other states are already $300+ for season long non-resident turkey licenses.

If licenses are raised, I wish part of the funds could be earmarked for a 'turkey fund' like some states have. If the money isn't earmarked, there is no telling where the license money will go. Which is one thing that isn't mentioned when people put forth the "More hunters, more license sales, more money for turkey!" That isn't necessarily true. We'd like to think that means more money for turkey, but that money is liable to go anywhere. And deer is the major cash crop for most state agencies....

[GobbleNut]

Agree entirely with your comments, deerhunt1988.  We are ever-more-rapidly moving towards more restrictive hunting opportunity for "Average Joe", while making sure the affluent can buy their way in. 

[arkrem870]

And we can lay most of the overcrowding at the feet of social media. And their millions of views. LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS. It's was true in WW2 and it's true now.

YouTube, podcasts, meateater, thp, pinhoti. Etc etc. definition of loose lips. Get ready for more crowding. Get ready for more restrictions. Get ready to not get drawn. 

All over people trying to make MONEY off of hunting.  But the kicker is...... very little money is even at play. I mean your trying to monetize what people do for free. And always another kid with a video camera trying to get confirmation thstll do it cheaper. Good luck

[SD_smith]

Not trying to belabor this discussion, but all of this brings to mind what has happened with the western states and the allotment of hunting opportunity for most big game species.  Everything has pretty much gone to a draw system, and almost all western states now allot only about 10% of their permits to nonresidents. 

If all the talk about nonresidents overrunning public-land turkey hunting is some states is a reality, I would fully expect to start seeing more states putting a limit on nonresident permits and allotting those permits through a drawing.

If the current trend continues, there is a good chance there will be reduced opportunity in some form or fashion. The easiest resolution would be more draw/quota hunts or shortened seasons. But we are already seeing proposals for shortening entire state seasons and limit reductions. I have personally hunted a few public areas the past couple springs where there are serious safety concerns, especially on opening weekend/week. I hunted these same areas anywhere from 3-5 seasons prior and they weren't near as bad as they are now.

As a participant in many western draw systems, I really hope turkey hunting doesn't go that way, but it very well could. A few examples:

-Arkansas's restrictions on non-resident duck hunters utilizing WMAs
-South Carolina's reduced turkey bag limit for non-residents

Western big game hunting is also starting to price people out of the game, but application numbers just keep rising due to demand. Application numbers have also been rising for turkey hunting in the east, as demand for public land hunting is higher than it has ever been in my lifetime.

Currently Florida doesn't have a cap on regular non-resident quota permits. I have the Florida draw data from two recent years and point creep is already happening in south Florida. I would not be surprised at all if Florida eventually puts a non-resident cap on their normal quota permits like they do their special opportunity ones. In fact, it'd make sense for them to in order to take care of their residents. They'd just lose some non-resident WMA permit sales (requirement to apply for draw hunts).

I actually sort of like the idea someone mentioned earlier in this thread about a 1-bird limit for non-residents. That'd definitely help spread the non-resident pressure. I've hunted several 1-bird states and often have fantastic hunts in them.

Or, do what western states are doing, and raise prices. Iowa is approaching $300 for a single bird now. That is a bit extreme but it'd definitely spread pressure. I'd hate for anyone to be priced out of the game, but don't be surprised if it happens. The possibility is very real. Several other states are already $300+ for season long non-resident turkey licenses.

If licenses are raised, I wish part of the funds could be earmarked for a 'turkey fund' like some states have. If the money isn't earmarked, there is no telling where the license money will go. Which is one thing that isn't mentioned when people put forth the "More hunters, more license sales, more money for turkey!" That isn't necessarily true. We'd like to think that means more money for turkey, but that money is liable to go anywhere. And deer is the major cash crop for most state agencies....

As a Florida resident I can say we as residents get screwed big time on turkey quotas. Go on YouTube and type in osceola public land and see how many out of state guys every year are videoing. That's not counting the ones that don't video. Friend of mine on a rather large quantity quota area in central Florida counted more nonresident hunters and trucks than resident. I'm all for nonresidents coming, but I feel the quota system should lean heavily toward the residents like western states such as South Dakota. It's to the point you have to wait 2-4 years to get one sometimes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ross R]

Currently Florida doesn't have a cap on regular non-resident quota permits. I have the Florida draw data from two recent years and point creep is already happening in south Florida. I would not be surprised at all if Florida eventually puts a non-resident cap on their normal quota permits like they do their special opportunity ones. In fact, it'd make sense for them to in order to take care of their residents. They'd just lose some non-resident WMA permit sales (requirement to apply for draw hunts).

I have that same draw data and It was bad this year at wma I like this year...   11 of the 15 permit holders were out of state.  They are driving up the point system.  It is getting harder and  harder to draw tags there. 

[deerhunt1988]

Currently Florida doesn't have a cap on regular non-resident quota permits. I have the Florida draw data from two recent years and point creep is already happening in south Florida. I would not be surprised at all if Florida eventually puts a non-resident cap on their normal quota permits like they do their special opportunity ones. In fact, it'd make sense for them to in order to take care of their residents. They'd just lose some non-resident WMA permit sales (requirement to apply for draw hunts).

I have that same draw data and It was bad this year at wma I like this year...   11 of the 15 permit holders were out of state.  They are driving up the point system.  It is getting harder and  harder to draw tags there.

For the 2019 season, that same area had 7 out of 15 permit holders being non-residents. Appears to be the last year someone was able to draw it with 3 points too.

The WMA where several successful hunts have been filmed in recent years, had a decent chance of drawing with 1 point as recent as 2019. It'd been that way for a decade. For 2021, it took most folks 3 points to draw! I'm pretty certain this timeframe isn't a coincidence.

After looking at this data further, if I was a Florida resident, I'd be contacting my wildlife commissioners and representatives to try and get some changes!

[arkrem870]

It's not just Florida deerhunt1988 and you know that well. This is happening all over the country to areas that are being sold out by the YouTube guys. It's a fact with statistics to 100% back it up. It's a serious issue the effects all turkey hunters. Take it seriously fellas. This doesn't end well for turkey hunters or regional turkey populations.

[dzsmith]

And we can lay most of the overcrowding at the feet of social media. And their millions of views. LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS. It's was true in WW2 and it's true now.

YouTube, podcasts, meateater, thp, pinhoti. Etc etc. definition of loose lips. Get ready for more crowding. Get ready for more restrictions. Get ready to not get drawn. 

All over people trying to make MONEY off of hunting.  But the kicker is...... very little money is even at play. I mean your trying to monetize what people do for free. And always another kid with a video camera trying to get confirmation thstll do it cheaper. Good luck

we've been flooded with arkies for turkies here in the sip before social media, and long before the you tube craze. we've been flooded from louisianna for deer hunting for decades as well, but its seeming to now become for turkeys as well in more recent years. Its just too many people. I think a 1 bird limit for a non res would be a fantastic idea. It would boil the blood of many non res that practically live here ...but it is what is.

[silent tom]

I've been waiting to respond when I had time to post a couple links for people to see the affects of what youtube is having on turkey hunting.

Dave Owens alluded to in his previous post in this thread about the need to be conservation minded.
It's not a secret that he pimped out Wisconsin possibly beyond repair.  In his series, he made a couple comments about Wisconsin "being his kind of state" in a separate video and "$15 dollar tags" at the end of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqCd6wgxngk.
This video was put out prior to last season, but after the permit deadline for Wisconsin. Guess what guys and girls, read the "Attention" note on this link: https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/hunt/turkey.
Any of you think this is a coincidence? Does this follow a conservation minded mindset??? Answer that one.

Further, Dave Owens also did a podcast with Cuz Strickland and discussed how crowded South FL has became. Go to about 9:00 and listen to this podcast. https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZm9kcG9kY2FzdC5saWJzeW4uY29tL3Jzcw?sa=X&ved=0CAMQ4aUDahcKEwjQ08v7qvHuAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQBA&hl=en
We have heard from south FL hunters on here about how crowded Florida has became. The hell with everyone else, these Youtubers "have got theirs".

I hate to put these states under scrutiny any more than they already are, but it's damn well past time these youtubers are called out.
Before I'm called out for being a hater, jealous, or wannabe- that is the furthest thing from the case. I've literally built a business around having free time in the spring. With that comes the obvious headaches and time restrictions- some years I can hunt more than others.
But you can be sure, I have never put a picture on a website or social media platform. I don't even have Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. I'm not out pimping public lands out for literally pennies on the dollar, but am busting my  the rest of the year to be able, while raising a family and business, to hunt in the spring.

With that said, I'm not singling out Dave Owens. THP, Catman, and others are just as guilty. They leave more "bread crumbs" than a toddler eating a bag of animal cookies. Google earth and street view, hi resolution aerial/topo maps, various gps apps for your phone- all put what you need in the palm of your hands to follow these guys around.

It's a delicate balance between hunter's dollars paying for conservation and crowding out areas to a point that hurt game populations. What we are seeing with Youtube presence falls to the latter. If the trends continues, you can look for more restrictions, draws, and red tape to jump through to hunt.
And that is a FACT you can take to the bank.
There's been a few of us that have been saying what youtube and showcasing public land will do to the sport if it keeps on. Most of the time, we were chastised. But as more and more people see the negative affects of what is going on, people are coming around and tired of it. It's taken several years, but is finally happening.

[arkrem870]

I wish I could give silent tom a "like" for that one.

Is 16,000 more permit applications in Wisconsin this year than last a coincidence? 

What about florida?

What about the Mississippi location that got pimped last year..... applications # through the roof ?

Pray these fellas don't show up with their cameras down the road on your local mangement area......it will very likely never be the same.  Unless you like sleeping in the bed of your truck and fighting other hunters

[deerhunt1988]

Dave Owens alluded to in his previous post in this thread about the need to be conservation minded.
It's not a secret that he pimped out Wisconsin possibly beyond repair.  In his series, he made a couple comments about Wisconsin "being his kind of state" in a separate video and "$15 dollar tags" at the end of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqCd6wgxngk.
This video was put out prior to last season, but after the permit deadline for Wisconsin. Guess what guys and girls, read the "Attention" note on this link: https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/hunt/turkey.
Any of you think this is a coincidence? Does this follow a conservation minded mindset??? Answer that one.

WHOA. Here is what is shown at that link:




But doesn't surprise me a bit. I had the privilege of experiencing the Wisconsin crapshow of 2020. And several other non-residents I met specifically mentioned to me that YouTubers were the reason they were there. Anyone else who got to experience the OTC period in Wisconsin can easily understand why so many more would be applying for the earlier hunts!