YouTube and public land

[LaLongbeard]

I just would like to know how they pull off the money side of all that travel. Out of state licenses, gas, convenience store food would add up quick and they don't seem to worry about jobs.

Non of this is new. Non of these hero's invented the traveling turkey hunting. Dave Owens wasn't the first to kill the US slam. People like Jim Spencer and several other Turkey writers have written multiple magazine articles and books on Turkey hunting etc. Never once did they mention a specific place. And these guys have been at the traveling turkey thing for decades before YouTube or any projects or tours.
     I take off the entire Turkey season every spring and hunt multiple states without having to be broke wear a girls turkey vest or panhandle for handouts. I know there are several other hunters on this forum that also hunt most everyday of the season. For some reason a bunch of people have got it in their head that this is new, I guess until you put it on YouTube they'll never find it. Someone could write a book titled " public land hunting hot spots in every state" and unless someone read it to them or made a podcast of someone reading it to them they'd never know lol.

[fallhnt]

Synopsis.....Public land hunters believe others in our ranks need to stop advertising public land hunting areas for personal gain,heroics etc. If you hunt public land most feel you should be respectful and keep all intel private. All agree to help others is ok but the hunter requesting assistance needs to do footwork before asking.
I give this synopsis two thumbs up.

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[Squoose]

I'm guessing most of y'all aren't on many Facebook hunting groups. It's one thing for someone to figure out a spot by recognizing a landmark in a YouTube video. It's another thing when people openly talk about how many birds they've seen heard or killed on XYZ WMA on Facebook. I see it all the time, people freely give away info on Facebook to anyone who asks. Some are trying to help out a fellow hunter, and some are just bragging. Either way, Facebook and social media in general has done a lot more harm than YouTube videos.


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Internet scouting has been around for a long time now.   Forums (like this one, but not necessarily this one) were the start of sharing TMI.

I would tend to disagree just a bit on the facebook vs. youtube analysis.  Many facebook groups are private or semi-private and generally speaking you can hide much of your information and day to day posts from general stalkers (non friends or non memebers).   You tube is much more open to the general public.

I had not heard of most of these public hunting land guys including yourself until this thread.   All though I may have watched a video or two that just popped up in some sequential loading.

I did notice that there is one public land turkey hunter that recently retreated dramatically on facebook.   At least on what one can see without being a friend or subscriber.

There is also plenty of videos sent out by email that probably say too much too.

Catman nailed this one. 

The FB groups in VA right now are on fire with folks asking for hunting spots.  "Anybody hunt WMA X this weekend?  Hear anything there?", "Can someone point me in the direction of turkeys I don't want your honey hole just a chance at some birds".  And people answer them honestly.  These groups are closed/private, yes, but all it takes to get in is answering a question that says you aren't a robot. 

I will tell you I'm a pretty darn good cyberscouter.  I can look at pictures and read a post that seems very benign and figure out where it is a good amount of the time.  Instagram is a good one for doing this.  So are forums.  FB folks usually say way too much and all but tell you where they were.  Honestly, I haven't used this information to "steal spots" or really influence where I hunt, but the point is that it isn't difficult. 0

I know some of you will give me hell/not believe me there.  My point is this: If you are posting anything about a hunt you went on on any platform, you are putting your spots in jeopardy.  There are guys who know what truck you drive and know you kill a lot of turkeys, so when they see you parked at a national forest gate you can bet they will be back.  There are guys who can pick out from a little detail in a short synopsis of the hunt you just posted on Old Gobbler Forum and can figure out where you were because they just so happen to have been there, too, but didn't realize it was so good!  If people figure out you're a good hunter you can bet you're being watched by those "less fortunate" than you.

And there are guys who watch youtube and can pick out what lake Catman and the THP crew were just hunting in TN.  And there are guys who will tell you exactly what you want to know on Facebook.

As was said before, this is the new face of hunting.  The more communication we have with people the more information gets out.  Thats just how communication works.  We can piss and moan about it here till the cows come home but that isn't changing anything.  With the rate at which properties are fragmenting and being leased, you can bet that the public land will continue to see more and more hunters.  That is as much a product of the times as is of social media.

Catman said he talked to Aaron about showing landmarks.  I'm sure they have talked about this very post we are almost on page 8 of right now.  Yes showing the gate number might have been wrong, but people can figure out what town they were in in any video they post.  You think these guys are exploiting public land for their gain?  It was already said that the THP guys are barely scraping by to fund their endeavor.  And they are the only ones doing it for a living, and a meager one, at that.  Catman and Dave Owens have real jobs.  These guys have figured out a way to fund their passion with their passion.  Yep, I'm jealous, too. 

You want to see people exploiting our resource for their own gain?  Watch Outdoor Channel.  Then, when you get tired of macho egos, product placement, "kill at all cost" and the lack of reality in their hunts, flip over to youtube and catch some Pinhoti, THP, Calling All Turkeys and Catman.  Breathe in that fresh air, blow out a sigh of relief and thank them for producing videos we can all relate to.  That serve as GOOD examples, for anyone who might stumble upon them, of what it is really like to be an outdoorsman/woman.  That prove that we, as a culture, are not the disrespectful, blood thirsty lunatics that we are made out to be by Hollywood or your local humane society.  These guys are the real embassadors of our sport.

We can pick apart their work.  Thats fine.  What I think is cool is that they have become so "normal" in our society now that we are starting to take them for granted.  If, after several years of content, all they have to worry about is showing a landmark or two in their videos, they're doing something right.

Best,
Royce

[Squoose]

I had a conversation with a hunting buddy about his opener here in VA on public land.  He was overrun by hunters.  Had a guy near by running the same seven note yelp every two minutes from daylight until he left at 9:45.  We say "thats ridiculous" and "how obnoxious".  Yes that can really "ruin" a hunt. 

But that guy is probably one of those guys on the FB group who posts: "This is my first season turkey hunting any tips appreciated".  Yikes!  How does one even respond to that?  So he gets a ton of small tidbits that don't mean anything without context and goes after it; calling every two minutes cause thats what the guys on the Outdoor Channel do.

How is he supposed to learn?  Honestly, the first thing I am going to tell that guy is to go watch THP, Calling all Turkeys and Pinhoti Project.  Because their videos teach the ethics, techniques and nuances of the game as well as most mentors would.  And good mentors are few and far between, unless all of us are taking several newbies out a season.

I agree that showing specific towns and especially gate numbers crosses a line.  But I'd rather have these guys showing the ropes to people who's interest is piqued by hunting than the newbies bumbling around the woods without these "rules" in mind.  Cause, again, these guys/gals probably have nobody else to teach them these points.

The world is changing constantly.  This trend isn't going to get "better".  This is what public land is for.  It sucks for the guys (like myself) who see the old honey holes get overrun.  But we need these newbies to sustain our sport.  We need their license purchases to fund the conservation to see the ecosystems we cherish into the distant future.  I'd rather see more hunters than not have these lands to hunt.  We just have to adapt to it all.

Have you guys sent THP an email or message voicing your concerns?  I'd wager they listen.  Yes everyone is a little different on camera, but their base values seem pretty sound (but I've been wrong before).  I do have a weakness for seeing the best in folks as much as I can.

Happy hunting, folks!
Royce

Fantastic post, Royce! Well said!  Hope to see more from you.  You are obviously fairly new here, so....Welcome to OG!

Thanks, Gobblenut!  I've been lurking for several years, now, and have posted a couple things here and there.  This is, without question, one of the best forums left on the interwebs.  Glad I can be a part of it and consort with folks like yourself!

[LaLongbeard]

I'm guessing most of y'all aren't on many Facebook hunting groups. It's one thing for someone to figure out a spot by recognizing a landmark in a YouTube video. It's another thing when people openly talk about how many birds they've seen heard or killed on XYZ WMA on Facebook. I see it all the time, people freely give away info on Facebook to anyone who asks. Some are trying to help out a fellow hunter, and some are just bragging. Either way, Facebook and social media in general has done a lot more harm than YouTube videos.


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Internet scouting has been around for a long time now.   Forums (like this one, but not necessarily this one) were the start of sharing TMI.

I would tend to disagree just a bit on the facebook vs. youtube analysis.  Many facebook groups are private or semi-private and generally speaking you can hide much of your information and day to day posts from general stalkers (non friends or non memebers).   You tube is much more open to the general public.

I had not heard of most of these public hunting land guys including yourself until this thread.   All though I may have watched a video or two that just popped up in some sequential loading.

I did notice that there is one public land turkey hunter that recently retreated dramatically on facebook.   At least on what one can see without being a friend or subscriber.

There is also plenty of videos sent out by email that probably say too much too.

Catman nailed this one. 

The FB groups in VA right now are on fire with folks asking for hunting spots.  "Anybody hunt WMA X this weekend?  Hear anything there?", "Can someone point me in the direction of turkeys I don't want your honey hole just a chance at some birds".  And people answer them honestly.  These groups are closed/private, yes, but all it takes to get in is answering a question that says you aren't a robot. 

I will tell you I'm a pretty darn good cyberscouter.  I can look at pictures and read a post that seems very benign and figure out where it is a good amount of the time.  Instagram is a good one for doing this.  So are forums.  FB folks usually say way too much and all but tell you where they were.  Honestly, I haven't used this information to "steal spots" or really influence where I hunt, but the point is that it isn't difficult. 0

I know some of you will give me hell/not believe me there.  My point is this: If you are posting anything about a hunt you went on on any platform, you are putting your spots in jeopardy.  There are guys who know what truck you drive and know you kill a lot of turkeys, so when they see you parked at a national forest gate you can bet they will be back.  There are guys who can pick out from a little detail in a short synopsis of the hunt you just posted on Old Gobbler Forum and can figure out where you were because they just so happen to have been there, too, but didn't realize it was so good!  If people figure out you're a good hunter you can bet you're being watched by those "less fortunate" than you.

And there are guys who watch youtube and can pick out what lake Catman and the THP crew were just hunting in TN.  And there are guys who will tell you exactly what you want to know on Facebook.

As was said before, this is the new face of hunting.  The more communication we have with people the more information gets out.  Thats just how communication works.  We can piss and moan about it here till the cows come home but that isn't changing anything.  With the rate at which properties are fragmenting and being leased, you can bet that the public land will continue to see more and more hunters.  That is as much a product of the times as is of social media.

Catman said he talked to Aaron about showing landmarks.  I'm sure they have talked about this very post we are almost on page 8 of right now.  Yes showing the gate number might have been wrong, but people can figure out what town they were in in any video they post.  You think these guys are exploiting public land for their gain?  It was already said that the THP guys are barely scraping by to fund their endeavor.  And they are the only ones doing it for a living, and a meager one, at that.  Catman and Dave Owens have real jobs.  These guys have figured out a way to fund their passion with their passion.  Yep, I'm jealous, too. 

You want to see people exploiting our resource for their own gain?  Watch Outdoor Channel.  Then, when you get tired of macho egos, product placement, "kill at all cost" and the lack of reality in their hunts, flip over to youtube and catch some Pinhoti, THP, Calling All Turkeys and Catman.  Breathe in that fresh air, blow out a sigh of relief and thank them for producing videos we can all relate to.  That serve as GOOD examples, for anyone who might stumble upon them, of what it is really like to be an outdoorsman/woman.  That prove that we, as a culture, are not the disrespectful, blood thirsty lunatics that we are made out to be by Hollywood or your local humane society.  These guys are the real embassadors of our sport.

We can pick apart their work.  Thats fine.  What I think is cool is that they have become so "normal" in our society now that we are starting to take them for granted.  If, after several years of content, all they have to worry about is showing a landmark or two in their videos, they're doing something right.

Best,
Royce

Cool story....still doesn't explain the need to post NF gate numbers or town landmarks. Several other hunting shows show only the woods and hunt. The fact that someone has too tell them not to do it says it all.
     I will say Aaron is usually not involved in the stupidity. He wasn't in on the hen shooting last year or some of the other goofy stuff. Maybe he should leave them clowns at the house.

[dublelung]

I'm guessing most of y'all aren't on many Facebook hunting groups. It's one thing for someone to figure out a spot by recognizing a landmark in a YouTube video. It's another thing when people openly talk about how many birds they've seen heard or killed on XYZ WMA on Facebook. I see it all the time, people freely give away info on Facebook to anyone who asks. Some are trying to help out a fellow hunter, and some are just bragging. Either way, Facebook and social media in general has done a lot more harm than YouTube videos.


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That's the facts!
These hunting forums and FB have caused much more anal pain than any of the Youtube hunters. If a person recognizes a land mark then so the hell what. That obviously means he's been there before and knows if the hunting is good or if it sucks. (However, the THP gate sign was uncalled for) I'd be willing to be half the folks complaining about it don't even hunt public land. I enjoy watching them and take it for what it is. It's entertainment for me while I'm sipping a beverage on the porch or stuck at work on a slow day, some of ya'll are taking things and yourself way too serious.
Catman, Shane Simpson, THP, and Dave Owens, keep on keeping on, there's a few of us who find your videos entertaining. If you've found a way to make money off of what you enjoy doing then more power to you. Every person complaining had the same opportunity to do what you're doing.

[dublelung]

I just would like to know how they pull off the money side of all that travel. Out of state licenses, gas, convenience store food would add up quick and they don't seem to worry about jobs.


Maybe I am just jealous

I have been watching THP videos on youtube for a couple years now. I enjoy watching and consider it entertainment. Nothing more nothing less. Do I wish I had their time and freedoms to hunt pretty much year round? Yes I do. Do I envy their lifestyle? No I dont.

If you pay attention to how they live, the clothes they wear, and the gear they use, it can be seen they are not rich. I'm sure   they can get by and hunt like they do solely on their sponsors and youtube payments. However by not working a normal job they sacrifice a nice home, fancy vehicle, good retirement and the joys of having kids and a family.

All of us can be angry at them for exposing our favorite hunting areas but few of us have the balls to go out and pursue our dreams. I do believe THP, catman, and Dave Owens are pursuing their dreams. For that very reason I will continue to watch their shows.

Very well stated and I agree completely.

[muskyjunky]

 Interesting points made across the board. My take is that I do enjoy the shows as another poster noted - entertainment . But then again, where I'm from there isn't a whole lot of access to public grounds per say to begin with. So this debate doesn't affect me the way it has a lot of people on here. But it does make me even more thankful for the handful of small private permissions I have to hunt. But this hasn't been perfect either, Cant count how many properties i've lost over the years to land selling, got leased ... Etc: , But that's a discussion for another topic I guess. Good luck everybody !

[blake_08]

I personally think Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, sometimes YouTube, and all of that other social media crap is a pimple on the face of America (and the world). In my opinion, social media has way too much influence on our daily lives, elections, news, and current events in general.  I'm 29 and this forum is as close to social media as I get. I hate walking into a restaurant, break room at work, or any social gathering and seeing 95% of the people there looking down at their phones. I think I was born to the wrong generation and I wish this world would take a turn away from so much technology but sadly, there's no chance of that happening.

But, to be relevant to the topic, I think Dave Owens does a better job than the others at keeping the spots a secret. I don't think THP or some of the others have bad intentions, i just think they're not as careful as Dave. I'm not a fanboy to any of them and I'll occasionally catch some of their videos. If they suddenly stopped making videos and all of their channels disappeared, it would have no effect on my life or my hunting whatsoever.

[Pluffmud]

Hen shooting???

[aclawrence]

Social media is definitely a problem and is not going anywhere anytime soon.  It has some good sides but y'all are right about the Facebook groups.  I can't believe the info I see people sharing in these groups. I watched the gate number video yesterday and then read through the comments. I get the feeling that most of the viewers are young or new hunters. They were all leaving very positive comments. I like the THP guys and think they have good intentions. I hope that they do become aware of how most of us feel about some of the things they're doing. They have a created a large platform and could really use it to influence and teach new hunters not just hunting tips but common hunter courtesy, ethics, etc. I think they've been doing that but they just need a little tap on the shoulder and for somebody that they will listen to say "hey that's not cool quit doing that". Personally I'd love to see them acknowledge what they did and go back and edit the video.  There are some serious dummies on the AL Facebook groups. People just need that social gratification so much that they can't help but show the whole world what they killed and where they got it.  Anyway hope you all have a blessed remainder of your season. 


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[CALLM2U]

Cool story....still doesn't explain the need to post NF gate numbers or town landmarks. Several other hunting shows show only the woods and hunt. The fact that someone has too tell them not to do it says it all.
     I will say Aaron is usually not involved in the stupidity. He wasn't in on the hen shooting last year or some of the other goofy stuff. Maybe he should leave them clowns at the house.

A couple days ago, the HP guys posted a video in TN.  It took me one internet search of a name and I had the location of where they were.  A second one and I knew the cove they were camping in.  It took me less than 2 minutes.  Zero gate numbers, zero iconic landmarks.  It's not difficult to narrow down the location.

The point is, you're never going to be able to stop it.  Heck, if you call a biologist in the area, they'll tell you where to hunt. 

But I do agree with you that Aaron is the most mature and professional of them all.

[turkey_slayer]

People have been stealing spots way before the internet. It's just made it worse. TV started the popularity then social media and now it's coming to a head. With that said, turkey hunters are the greediest bunch and have more finger pointers and whiners than any other. Now with the "everyone gets a trophy" generation its made forums and social media insufferable. If guys aren't hearing at least a half dozen with the truck window down they complain.

THP should have never showed the gate number. Being secretive is as old as hunting itself but if anyone watched catmans or THP recent videos they either have armed guardsman keeping people out or pressure isn't as bad as people make it out to be. I mean why do they keep going back to that spot year after year if it's ruined. You can hear so many birds it's hard to believe that it's getting hammered. That or there's a lot of bad turkey hunters there.

[buzzardroost]

.

[catman529]

I would tend to disagree just a bit on the facebook vs. youtube analysis.  Many facebook groups are private or semi-private and generally speaking you can hide much of your information and day to day posts from general stalkers (non friends or non memebers).   You tube is much more open to the general public.

the FB groups I'm on are 10, 20, 50, 60 thousand members. Some of them are private and some are public. They have enough people reading the posts to ruin a secret quickly. I've lost count of the "where's some good public land in X area" or "are there birds on X wma" posts and some dumbazz or two always has to answer with "yes lots of birds" before someone else says to stop sharing info publicly.

Forums are another bad one, and one I'm guilty of. I didn't know any better or have a clue when I got started, I had no mentor, just the forum and some google searches and videos. I mentioned the wma where I started hunting a few times, and I had some success there. Now you can probably find it via google search for my username. Someone called me out on it, and I eventually stopped and have been more secretive every year as more people watch my videos. I try to share hunting and scouting advice without giving away locations. To help new hunters find some birds without giving away anyone's secret honey hole.



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