What is your state doing?

[LaLongbeard]

As far as dwindling populations go, which seems to be the norm in a lot of states. Do y'all think the increased hunting pressure on turkeys has hunt the numbers? Or do you even think there is an increase of turkey hunters?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Definitely an increase in 'traveling' turkey hunters and it will continue to increase due to social media.

Another thing to keep in mind is how 'effective' turkey hunters are now days. You have folks taking 70 yards shots with TSS (killing and wounding turkey that otherwise would have lived), you have folks deer hunting them out of ground blinds with full strut decoys (which is much more effective at taking out those dominant, henned up early season toms that otherwise would have been dang near unkillable until later in the season - thus potentially disrupting the breeding cycle for a few days), you have 'the reapers' taking out field birds that would have been tough back in the day, you have mapping apps like OnX, and the list goes on. All this boils down to we are as efficient at killing turkey as ever before. And more folks are traveling out of state to kill them.

A lot of experts theorize that removing the dominant tom early season can disrupt the breeding cycle for a few days. No research is conclusive yet, but a lot of biologist are looking into this issue.  In some bird species females have a 'preferred male' they chose to breed with. I believe Kenny Morgan actually talks about it in one of his books. What happens if there is a 'preferred male' and he keeps getting his head rolled every few days on heavily hunted public land? This could especially be a problem in areas with early openers and in areas without a lot of turkey.

The increase in traveling turkey hunters has DEFINITELY hurt hunt QUALITY on public lands. Kansas was the first poster child of this (not considering their recent turkey decline, just hunt quality back in the late 2000-late 2010 years). Seems Chadron, Nebraska has went the same way. Once folks jump on the bandwagon and flock to these places, I start heading to new places. Once again, this trend will continue to get worse thanks to social media.

Some folks in this thread seem to think their state can control the management practices that happen on private industrial timberlands. NEWSFLASH: The timber companies are in it for the money. Not wildlife. And your state has hardly any means of fixing that.


Turkey hunters are quick to place the blame elsewhere. They want to fill their limit in every state they travel to and expect mother nature to replenish all the birds, and maybe even add more!, without putting in any management effort themselves. Now this doesn't apply to all turkey hunters, but take a minute and think about how many you know that seriously get their hands dirty trying to help the turkey population where they hunt.

I've also witnessed a lot of ignorance in this thread in regards to wildlife management. It'd be worthwhile for a few of you to study up more on that topic before you start spouting off blame and assumptions.

I agree. And anyone that has been hunting turkeys for very long has seen this to be true.

[Crghss]

As far as dwindling populations go, which seems to be the norm in a lot of states. Do y'all think the increased hunting pressure on turkeys has hunt the numbers? Or do you even think there is an increase of turkey hunters?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Definitely an increase in 'traveling' turkey hunters and it will continue to increase due to social media.

Another thing to keep in mind is how 'effective' turkey hunters are now days. You have folks taking 70 yards shots with TSS (killing and wounding turkey that otherwise would have lived), you have folks deer hunting them out of ground blinds with full strut decoys (which is much more effective at taking out those dominant, henned up early season toms that otherwise would have been dang near unkillable until later in the season - thus potentially disrupting the breeding cycle for a few days), you have 'the reapers' taking out field birds that would have been tough back in the day, you have mapping apps like OnX, and the list goes on. All this boils down to we are as efficient at killing turkey as ever before. And more folks are traveling out of state to kill them.

A lot of experts theorize that removing the dominant tom early season can disrupt the breeding cycle for a few days. No research is conclusive yet, but a lot of biologist are looking into this issue.  In some bird species females have a 'preferred male' they chose to breed with. I believe Kenny Morgan actually talks about it in one of his books. What happens if there is a 'preferred male' and he keeps getting his head rolled every few days on heavily hunted public land? This could especially be a problem in areas with early openers and in areas without a lot of turkey.

The increase in traveling turkey hunters has DEFINITELY hurt hunt QUALITY on public lands. Kansas was the first poster child of this (not considering their recent turkey decline, just hunt quality back in the late 2000-late 2010 years). Seems Chadron, Nebraska has went the same way. Once folks jump on the bandwagon and flock to these places, I start heading to new places. Once again, this trend will continue to get worse thanks to social media.

Some folks in this thread seem to think their state can control the management practices that happen on private industrial timberlands. NEWSFLASH: The timber companies are in it for the money. Not wildlife. And your state has hardly any means of fixing that.


Turkey hunters are quick to place the blame elsewhere. They want to fill their limit in every state they travel to and expect mother nature to replenish all the birds, and maybe even add more!, without putting in any management effort themselves. Now this doesn't apply to all turkey hunters, but take a minute and think about how many you know that seriously get their hands dirty trying to help the turkey population where they hunt.

I've also witnessed a lot of ignorance in this thread in regards to wildlife management. It'd be worthwhile for a few of you to study up more on that topic before you start spouting off blame and assumptions.

I agree. And anyone that has been hunting turkeys for very long has seen this to be true.

So me going to South Dakota and spending over a thousand dollar plus to kill ONE turkey is destroying turkey hunting.

Not Herbicides or pesticides. Not invasive species like python or coyotes. Not the restoration of the depleted  species like hawks, possum, skunks, raccoons. Not continued development of wildlife habitat. None of this has any impact on turkey hunting.

It is only the couple hundred/thousand of out of state hunters. Who are too ignorant, lazy or stupid to contribute to turkey hunting conservation. Because obviously if we're out of state hunters we don't care or couldn't possibly have any ability or desire to accomplish this. This is the destruction of turkey hunting.

Well you are in luck, Bernie Sanders has a special place for you in his campaign.

[James gang]

Ok as far as mdc being so successful trapping they have had traps for several months in our neck of the woods.i have talked to some of them on several occasions they quit baiting the traps and left them tripped. They said they had caught the majority of the pigs in the area.A group of 6 men with dogs killed 17 (3 pregnant) in same spot in 1.5 days.mdcs stance on hogs is a joke.

Why not put a bounty on hogs and a huge fine for turning them loose.There would be enough honest hunters in the woods to keep them from being turned loose maybe have a huge reward for turning them in( let there fine pay the reward so mdc can keep there $$ there so worried about).Add up what they are spending on bait and manpower trapping ,shooting from the air how many bountys could that pay? They can feed those tractor trailer loads of corn everyone is talking about to the turkeys.

[Spurs]

As far as dwindling populations go, which seems to be the norm in a lot of states. Do y'all think the increased hunting pressure on turkeys has hunt the numbers? Or do you even think there is an increase of turkey hunters?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Definitely an increase in 'traveling' turkey hunters and it will continue to increase due to social media.

Another thing to keep in mind is how 'effective' turkey hunters are now days. You have folks taking 70 yards shots with TSS (killing and wounding turkey that otherwise would have lived), you have folks deer hunting them out of ground blinds with full strut decoys (which is much more effective at taking out those dominant, henned up early season toms that otherwise would have been dang near unkillable until later in the season - thus potentially disrupting the breeding cycle for a few days), you have 'the reapers' taking out field birds that would have been tough back in the day, you have mapping apps like OnX, and the list goes on. All this boils down to we are as efficient at killing turkey as ever before. And more folks are traveling out of state to kill them.

A lot of experts theorize that removing the dominant tom early season can disrupt the breeding cycle for a few days. No research is conclusive yet, but a lot of biologist are looking into this issue.  In some bird species females have a 'preferred male' they chose to breed with. I believe Kenny Morgan actually talks about it in one of his books. What happens if there is a 'preferred male' and he keeps getting his head rolled every few days on heavily hunted public land? This could especially be a problem in areas with early openers and in areas without a lot of turkey.

The increase in traveling turkey hunters has DEFINITELY hurt hunt QUALITY on public lands. Kansas was the first poster child of this (not considering their recent turkey decline, just hunt quality back in the late 2000-late 2010 years). Seems Chadron, Nebraska has went the same way. Once folks jump on the bandwagon and flock to these places, I start heading to new places. Once again, this trend will continue to get worse thanks to social media.

Some folks in this thread seem to think their state can control the management practices that happen on private industrial timberlands. NEWSFLASH: The timber companies are in it for the money. Not wildlife. And your state has hardly any means of fixing that.


Turkey hunters are quick to place the blame elsewhere. They want to fill their limit in every state they travel to and expect mother nature to replenish all the birds, and maybe even add more!, without putting in any management effort themselves. Now this doesn't apply to all turkey hunters, but take a minute and think about how many you know that seriously get their hands dirty trying to help the turkey population where they hunt.

I've also witnessed a lot of ignorance in this thread in regards to wildlife management. It'd be worthwhile for a few of you to study up more on that topic before you start spouting off blame and assumptions.

You mean actually show some self restraint and keep an eye towards the future of our wildlife instead of killing everything legally possible? Your not asking for much are ya? It's much easier to just kill everything legally possible and then complain that it's the wildlife officials fault for letting us.

I was totally onboard when AR pushed out season back significantly about 8 years ago, but the reality is that it has had no affect on the population or hunter success. 

This is my biggest gripe with the AGFC.  The land that the do have used to have GREAT food plots, controlled burns, and GOOD timber management.  Now, the food plots are rarely even mowed, burning has almost completely ceased, and tree huggers have almost brought select cutting to a stop due to ignorance. 

Like a couple of others have mentioned, our commissioners are also appointed, therefore, their "expertise" is mostly limited.  Most of them are simply deep pockets. 

Now, for my solutions:  A hard core attack on predators/feral pigs, creating a stream management zone LAW (right now its kinda optional), pour tons of money into school programs/education for timber and wildlife management, and finally, issue big grants to any colleges who will do nest surveys/poult surveys.

My biggest solution is the surveys.  Right now our survey is a total joke.  Game Officers just drive around and count what they see.  Last year they asked the public to assist...which we all know how that turned out.

[Spitten and drummen]

folks in this thread seem to think their state can control the management practices that happen on private industrial timberlands. NEWSFLASH: The timber companies are in it for the money. Not wildlife. And your state has hardly any means of fixing


I will address this part. We already know its about the money as I stated it in my post above. We offer to control burn at our own expense and that would only be an improvement of their timber. NEWSFLASH You ever hear of influence? Yeah thats right NWTF has enough stroke that them along with the state can get things done. So yes they can put things back on track by working hand in hand. Also as far as habitat , since folks on here dont know anything about it and we need to read up on it , share your expert knowledge on the subject. I happen to have wildlife biologist in my family that I get my info from.

[Coop1082]

Alabama has moved the date now from March 15 to the 3rd weekend of March. Puts us coming in a bit later and giving the birds a opportunity to breed. Been a many of years I've been on the 15th and the turkeys still be grouped up. They've been doing it in select WMAs for a few years now and made it statewide this year. There are whisperings of the bag limit dropping from 5 to 3 in the future also. Both things I don't have any qualms with. Meanwhile the entire state is still in the process of being turned into a monoculture by timber companies and having nothing but pine trees on every square inch of land. Down in south AL it almost feels like finding the gold pot at the end of a rainbow would be easier than finding a good stand of hardwoods.

[Tail Feathers]

Gamblinman were are they getting those eastern birds, most of the eastern states I know of are struggling to hold on to there on population?

Locally our first superstocking was of birds from OH.
Turns out they were nuisance birds from a town.  Wild, yes but...  The biologist told me two hen hit the ground and traveled 80 miles in a few days and went to an area that had zero birds.
That group didn't do so well so we got some more from elsewhere I think.

[James gang]

Mark twain national forest thought we all own it ( you know the tax payers) also thought the people in charge of it worked for us.I guess that shows what i know.They couldn't care less. The new ramrod for mdc is not a hunter and it sure shows more of a bird watcher nothing wrong with that but how many permits do they buy




Im just a dumb hillbilly but seems to me if they would make an effort to bring tukey numbers back up instead of worrying about elk or hogs
they could sell alot more of the high dollar out of state permits.

I know they sell plenty now but things go the way they have been why will they come  to spot a yellow bellied sap sucker?

[deerhunt1988]

As far as dwindling populations go, which seems to be the norm in a lot of states. Do y'all think the increased hunting pressure on turkeys has hunt the numbers? Or do you even think there is an increase of turkey hunters?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Definitely an increase in 'traveling' turkey hunters and it will continue to increase due to social media.

Another thing to keep in mind is how 'effective' turkey hunters are now days. You have folks taking 70 yards shots with TSS (killing and wounding turkey that otherwise would have lived), you have folks deer hunting them out of ground blinds with full strut decoys (which is much more effective at taking out those dominant, henned up early season toms that otherwise would have been dang near unkillable until later in the season - thus potentially disrupting the breeding cycle for a few days), you have 'the reapers' taking out field birds that would have been tough back in the day, you have mapping apps like OnX, and the list goes on. All this boils down to we are as efficient at killing turkey as ever before. And more folks are traveling out of state to kill them.

A lot of experts theorize that removing the dominant tom early season can disrupt the breeding cycle for a few days. No research is conclusive yet, but a lot of biologist are looking into this issue.  In some bird species females have a 'preferred male' they chose to breed with. I believe Kenny Morgan actually talks about it in one of his books. What happens if there is a 'preferred male' and he keeps getting his head rolled every few days on heavily hunted public land? This could especially be a problem in areas with early openers and in areas without a lot of turkey.

The increase in traveling turkey hunters has DEFINITELY hurt hunt QUALITY on public lands. Kansas was the first poster child of this (not considering their recent turkey decline, just hunt quality back in the late 2000-late 2010 years). Seems Chadron, Nebraska has went the same way. Once folks jump on the bandwagon and flock to these places, I start heading to new places. Once again, this trend will continue to get worse thanks to social media.

Some folks in this thread seem to think their state can control the management practices that happen on private industrial timberlands. NEWSFLASH: The timber companies are in it for the money. Not wildlife. And your state has hardly any means of fixing that.


Turkey hunters are quick to place the blame elsewhere. They want to fill their limit in every state they travel to and expect mother nature to replenish all the birds, and maybe even add more!, without putting in any management effort themselves. Now this doesn't apply to all turkey hunters, but take a minute and think about how many you know that seriously get their hands dirty trying to help the turkey population where they hunt.

I've also witnessed a lot of ignorance in this thread in regards to wildlife management. It'd be worthwhile for a few of you to study up more on that topic before you start spouting off blame and assumptions.

I agree. And anyone that has been hunting turkeys for very long has seen this to be true.

So me going to South Dakota and spending over a thousand dollar plus to kill ONE turkey is destroying turkey hunting.

Not Herbicides or pesticides. Not invasive species like python or coyotes. Not the restoration of the depleted  species like hawks, possum, skunks, raccoons. Not continued development of wildlife habitat. None of this has any impact on turkey hunting.

It is only the couple hundred/thousand of out of state hunters. Who are too ignorant, lazy or stupid to contribute to turkey hunting conservation. Because obviously if we're out of state hunters we don't care or couldn't possibly have any ability or desire to accomplish this. This is the destruction of turkey hunting.

Well you are in luck, Bernie Sanders has a special place for you in his campaign.

Simmer down there buddy. I think you took my post a bit out of context and read WAY too much into it. I've been a traveling turkey hunter for quite a long time and hit half dozen or more states each spring.

I mentioned the influx of hunters to certain areas hurts hunt QUALITY. I even put it in all caps. I didn't say it was destroying turkey hunting. And I believe you missed this part: "Now this doesn't apply to all turkey hunters, but take a minute and think about how many you know that seriously get their hands dirty trying to help the turkey population where they hunt."

[deerhunt1988]

folks in this thread seem to think their state can control the management practices that happen on private industrial timberlands. NEWSFLASH: The timber companies are in it for the money. Not wildlife. And your state has hardly any means of fixing


I will address this part. We already know its about the money as I stated it in my post above. We offer to control burn at our own expense and that would only be an improvement of their timber. NEWSFLASH You ever hear of influence? Yeah thats right NWTF has enough stroke that them along with the state can get things done. So yes they can put things back on track by working hand in hand. Also as far as habitat , since folks on here dont know anything about it and we need to read up on it , share your expert knowledge on the subject. I happen to have wildlife biologist in my family that I get my info from.

The majority of private timber companies are going to be hesitant to let anyone burn their property, regardless of the "burner's" credentials. Liability. If you have been able to convince one to let ya'll burn, that is quite the accomplishment!

NWTF does help fund a lot of fire on public grounds. I even know of an instance where they've chipped in some funds to a cost-share program for private landowners to burn. Props to them for that!

I happen to have wildlife biologist in my family that I get my info from.

Well....It just so happens... 

[ColbyModisette]

[/sub]

As already stated Louisiana moved the season opener from mid March to first week in April. The reason for the move was that most of the kill numbers were in the first week, with a March opener. Most of the Gobblers were dead  before the breeding was finished. Now with the 2-3 week delay in opener hopefully more hens will breed before the hunting starts. There were several studies done on nest start dates and Gobbler harvest dates. Moving the opener is probably the cheapest and least amount of effort possible but it is better than nothing. For those that don't understand the why I'd suggest reading up on Turkey nesting in Louisiana.
       Even though the opener of any season usually has the highest kill numbers, the April opener drastically lowered La kill numbers. No more strutter  decoys and tents. By the time the season opens the Gobblers have all the hens collected up and are less likely to want to fight your funky chicken decoy lol. Less Gobbling ,because they don't have too, decoys less effective. Makes the part timers give up which is a win any way you look at it.

I get the logic behind it, I just think we are too far gone for quick easy fixes but time will tell and I hope it helps.  But we have a lot of issues in Louisiana.  Habitat is not good for the most part but so much land is owned by timber companies so not much we can do there, hog population is out of control and I really do think there is anything we can do to stop it (cant believe some states are protecting them).  We have a big predator/nesting predator problem and that's something we can all help out with, wouldn't fix our problems but I think it sure would help if we (myself included) got serious about trapping and gave our turkeys some relief from egg eaters and coyotes

[Shady valley birds]

Gamblinman were are they getting those eastern birds, most of the eastern states I know of are struggling to hold on to there on population?

from MS and VA are the 2 I know of.

they best be leaving the birds we have in va alone unless we are just overrun and I doubt that's the case

[GobbleNut]

Gamblinman were are they getting those eastern birds, most of the eastern states I know of are struggling to hold on to there on population?

from MS and VA are the 2 I know of.

they best be leaving the birds we have in va alone unless we are just overrun and I doubt that's the case

Once again, there are plenty of places where turkeys are a nuisance problem for some reason and need to be relocated.  Those are pretty much exclusively where the birds that are being transplanted are coming from.  Some examples:  urban areas where they can't be hunted; agricultural areas/farms that have depredation problems; airports and similar places where they present safety issues, etc..

None of us want turkeys taken out of marginal populations that are providing hunting opportunity to the public,...and I doubt seriously that is happening.  I have participated in a number of trap and transplant operations and in every case we were trapping birds that were either a nuisance problem for some reason or were otherwise taken from an area where there were plenty of turkeys such that trapping and relocating some of them would have no impact on the trapped population other than removing some individual birds. 

In summary (one more time), fixing turkey population problems quickly involves identifying the causes of the declines, implementing management solutions to those problems, and then supplementing turkey numbers in those places through translocations.  ....It is as simple (and complex) as that.  There just needs to be a focus put back on doing that. 

And finally, managed hunting under sound biological parameters has absolutely no impact on healthy turkey populations in terms of overall population numbers and stability. 

[Turkeytider]

Man, between hogs and predators  and poaching and getting rid of hardwoods and state wildlife departments that don`t give a damn, etc., etc.,.... this thread has enough depressing stuff to keep me on a downer for a week at least! I`ve about decided there aren`t going to be any turkeys anywhere within 5 years!


If anybody knows of any bright spots, PLEASE POST! Or else I`m likely to feel guilty even going in the woods!

[AndyN]

The poaching might not be so bad this year they are putting more law in the woods afraid someone might take a crack at a pig

Let me guess, you got caught shooting a pig? Talk to anyone on here from a southern state and they will assure you that you don't want hogs around. If the state allows recreational hunting of them it just spreads them out and makes them harder to control. Or people get the great idea that they should stock hogs for an additional hunting opportunity. They can't leave any grey areas in the regulations regarding this or people will abuse it and then you're overrun with hogs. Let the aerial gunners and trappers take care of em. It seems to be working very well in KS when other states have lost the battle because they didn't get on it soon enough.