I shot a tightwad .660 in a Mossberg 535 and the federal tss #9's we're too tight for what I like. I want an even 15-20" pattern at 40 yards. The federal tss threw 380 pellets in a 10-12" circle. Anything over about 200-250 in the 10" is overkill for what I need and I'd rather have an even 20" pattern instead of a 10" pattern. Longbeards will throw a super tight 10-12" pattern for a third of the price, but that not what I'm after. I want a forgiving pattern and handloads, Apex, or browning does that.